Alleged Indian Involvement in Terrorist Attacks in Pakistan
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dineshchaturvedi
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Whatever you say this is becoming ugly, if it is a lie. Which I believe it is then it is a good ploy to divert attention of Pakistani from the misdeeds of PA. If they claim they have the proof they should follow it up by providing evidence to GOI. If they do not follow up, bu default it will be considered as not having any proof. They have been doing this for a while.
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Is this a decre (fatwa) or condemning terrorism.
The second part of the video, when Zaid Hamid appears is relevant to the topic.
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Sharif brothers and MMA are not speaking out against Taliban.Even PPP (headed by Shias) till a while back was pushing for peace accords.
The only party that has been vehemently anti-Taliban is MQM whose boss, ironically, has often been labeled a RAW agent
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Blame India to motivate troops, inject a shot of nationalism and rein in rogue militants asap. Fantastic.
The network jeopardizes its credibility by referring to Zaid Hamid as an "analyst" when in fact none of his works reflect a modicum of critical thinking, or reality for that matter.
The content he spewed is laughable at best.
GoI's approach to this matter should be applauded though. It's an extremely smart way to go about things.
The content he spewed is laughable at best.
GoI's approach to this matter should be applauded though. It's an extremely smart way to go about things.
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Why fight my Muslim brethren
The average Pakistani soldier has already psychologically crossed over to the Jehadi side. It is impossible to convince him to undertake military action against his co-religionist brethren.
New York Times eventually discovers, albeit belatedly, that the average Pakistani is not ready to believe that their home grown jehadis could be behind the recent spate of terror attacks in Pakistan. This explains the pressing need for the Pakistani government officials to fabricate evidence of an Indian hand in South Waziristan. It is another matter that Bill Roggio can easily disprove both the theory of an Indian hand and the purported evidence put forth by the Pakistani versions of Comical Ali.
While satisfying the popular opinion by producing such evidence may be a compulsion for the Pakistani political establishment, the challenge for the Pakistani Army is equally grave. How does the Pakistan army justify the action against fellow Muslim brethren to its troops, that too in an Islamic Republic, with a pat history of associating closely with these Jehadis? Well, it has earlier resorted to claiming that the jehadis in Swat were actually Jewish.
There are many who believe that this is all a figment of fertile Indian imagination and a professional Pakistan army faces no such challenge. For those naysayers, here are a couple of slides from the presentation given by a Pakistan army officer, Major Ali Iqbar in a Workshop on Counterinsurgency Leaders held at US Army and Marine Corps Counterinsurgency Center, Fort Leavenworth from 27 to 29 October this year. Major Iqbar was the operations staff officer of 315 Brigade in Swat when the Pakistan army moved in there for Operation Rah-e-Haq in 2007.
Swat Slide 47
After identifying the crisis — of finding an explanation for the soldiers to act against those demanding Islamic Law in an Islamic state — Major Iqbar identifies the foremost challenge for the Pakistan army at the start of the operations.
Slide Swat 49
The good Major doesn’t venture further to explain how his brigade commander and unit commanders successfully overcame this challenge. Perhaps because they did nothing except blame it on a Indian-Zionist conspiracy to decimate the only Muslim state with a nuclear bomb!
As long as the bones of military aid and equipment are bring thrown by the US, the dog that is the Pakistan army, will have to continue with this charade of acting against certain sections of not-so-friendly Taliban. However even against these so-called enemies of Pakistan, Pakistan army will have to continually invoke the bogey of an Indian hand to motivate its soldiers — drawn from a radically Islamised society — to undertake military operations. When the average Pakistani soldier has already crossed over to the jehadi side — not physically but psychologically — no goading by the brass can force the average trooper to lift his weapon against his own co-religionist brethren.
There is no better way to understand the psychological make-up of an average Pakistani soldier than by going through this anecdote by Londonstani at Abu Muqawama’s blog.
http://pragmatic.nationalinterest.in/2009/11/04/why-fight-my-muslim-brethren/
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Pakistanis Seek Blame for Bombing
PESHAWAR, Pakistan — It has been a week since the bomb exploded at the women’s market here, but people still talk about the images of its aftermath: women’s bodies, naked and broken. A hand with hennaed nails. An arm still wearing bracelets.
Even for Peshawar, a city that has long been pummeled by violent attacks, the bombing in the Meena market last week felt different. The violence was aimed not at soldiers or the police, but at society’s most vulnerable members — poor women and children, who made up about half of the bombing’s 114 victims.
In two days of interviews, Pakistanis here said they believed the war had taken a dark new turn, with civilians now bearing the brunt of insurgents’ fury. But that does not mean greater public anger at the Taliban.
The attack was so disturbing that people refused to believe that their countrymen were the culprits. If anything, it was met with disbelief or anger at the government for failing to protect civilians.
“The Taliban talk about morality and women’s dress, but they wouldn’t do such a thing to us,” said Muhamed Orenzeib Khan, a gas station attendant who lost nine members of his family in the blast. “Their target was never the common people.”
The brutality of the bombing and people’s reaction show just how complicated Pakistan’s militancy problem has become. The military is now in the third week of a campaign against the Taliban, and though it has widespread public support, there is still a great reluctance to accept that Pakistanis or fellow Muslims are the ones doing the killing.
Like Iraqis in the early days of their war, many Pakistanis insist that foreigners carry out the most devastating bombings, and turn to conspiracy theories to explain a reality that is otherwise too awful to face.
“It’s not easy to say our countrymen are in any way involved,” said Altaf U. Khan, a professor in the journalism department at the University of Peshawar. “There is a feeling of extreme helplessness: ‘We have no power, so why take responsibility?’ ”
Denial brings its own problems, namely the risk of prolonging the insurgency, because people do not know who their enemy is. That seemed to be the case for Muhammed Afzal, an oil trader whose building was damaged in the blast. “I know my tribal people,” he said, sitting on a couch in a room with blown-out windows. “They aren’t strong enough to do something like this.”
Mr. Afzal, who has relatives in Texas and Florida, offered a view of who was responsible, similar to many others interviewed here. “I’m telling you categorically — the people behind this bomb are the Indians and Mossad,” he said, referring to Israel’s intelligence agency. India and Pakistan are archenemies, and India figures into many Pakistani conspiracy theories.
The Meena market is packed with vendors selling fabrics, spices and soap. But it is best known as the place where poor families shop for weddings, whose season begins this month, when Pakistan’s boiling weather cools.
The Khan family members who were killed — among them six children — had gone to the market to buy bangles and new shoes for the children for a wedding that they calculated would cost about $1,250, a sum that took them five years to save.
“These people are merely spectators in our society — they don’t have any say,” said Professor Khan of the University of Peshawar. “They grasp these small happinesses.”
The bombing, he said, “has stabbed at the weakest part of our hearts.”
As confused as people were about the perpetrators of the bombing, their anger at the government was clear and sharp.
Why does the government protect five-star hotels like the Marriott and Serena, where Islamabad’s elite celebrate, but not places like the Meena market? Sonia Khan asked angrily. “This blast targeted poor people,” she said, kneeling in a room without power in an apartment near the market that her family rents. “All the machinery is put toward guarding the rich, and we are left out in the open.”
On Monday, rescue workers were still digging for 15 people who remained missing. Mazar Iqbal, the owner of a plastic-bag shop, stood watching. He was saved by sugar — his wife had asked him to buy some just minutes before the blast — but his neighbor was crushed to death when his shop collapsed from the force of the blast.
Mr. Iqbal said he could not get the images of the women out of his mind, their naked bodies lying on the pavement, a deeply unnatural sight. “We are confused,” he said, as a backhoe scraped at what was left of his shop. “We are not blaming anyone. We are not ready to believe that this was done by a human being.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/world/asia/04pstan.html?_r=2&ref=world
The most concerning factor however is that the state itself is complicit in the propagation of these conspiracy theories, and Rehman Malik's ridiculous statements about India being responsible for all of Pakistan's internal conflicts is testament to this fact. I have made arguments about this here, here and here.
There is clearly no evidence of India's involvement in the support of a violent insurgency in Pakistan, furthermore the whole concept of the TTP being RAW assets is inherently ludicrous. The Pakistani establishment is obviously aware of this (if not and they all have exactly the same delusion; in which case it becomes a mental health epidemic issue bringing into question their ability to hold positions of leadership).
Amidst the conflict the GoP and the PA keep making multiple efforts to throw India into the mix for local consumption. It seems to be an obvious ploy to establish a subliminal link between Pakistan's humanitarian catastrophe and India. This is nothing short of social engineering of the worst kind, and the Pakistani establishment must be held accountable for this by the global community.
There is clearly no evidence of India's involvement in the support of a violent insurgency in Pakistan, furthermore the whole concept of the TTP being RAW assets is inherently ludicrous. The Pakistani establishment is obviously aware of this (if not and they all have exactly the same delusion; in which case it becomes a mental health epidemic issue bringing into question their ability to hold positions of leadership).
Amidst the conflict the GoP and the PA keep making multiple efforts to throw India into the mix for local consumption. It seems to be an obvious ploy to establish a subliminal link between Pakistan's humanitarian catastrophe and India. This is nothing short of social engineering of the worst kind, and the Pakistani establishment must be held accountable for this by the global community.
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Qsaark sahab please read the news articles, the very excellent posts by some very bright minds all posted in this very thread.
This is an act of subversion,it will not only prolong the insurgency but has the potential to destroy the state from inside.
So where do we go from here? This cannot possibly end well. If the Pakistani government manages to convince its populace that India is behind all this chaos and mayhem, the amount of hatred and resentment that will be generated is enough to fuel conflict for generations to come.
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For us it is necessary to keep chugging along the the progress train, invest in security, build up our military, keep up the pressure on Pak, enlist support of the Saudis, Chinese, Americans to arm twist Pakistanis and pray that this "hatred" only leads to at best sporadic low intensity terrorist acts. And hope that one day Pakistani establishment realises the folly of its ways.
A continued US presence is vital for us. We have to keep up the pressure on US to do more in Pstan and Astan. We can and must not allow a US pullout from Astan. Pak army would be itching to unleash the suicide bombers in the Vale of Kashmir. Forcefully prove our innocence at every stage. Encourage Indian media to go slow and interact with the saner elements in the Pak english media. Imagine if US finds its tough to make Pak act on terrorists, what influence do we have on them ?
For Pakistanis it is an uphill struggle, and an empathetic Indian govt, media and society can help them to an extent too. :scared_sofa:
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In Peshawar, state of denial over market attack culprits
MANY BLAME 'FOREIGN HANDS'
'Taliban would never do this terrible thing'
PESHAWAR, PAKISTAN -- When terrorists last week blew up the Mina Bazaar, a market for women and children, they detonated a car bomb so powerful it left more than 100 people dead and 15 missing in a nightmarish scene of scattered limbs, charred corpses and victims trapped alive under mounds of debris.
The bombing crossed a new line of callousness, uniting Peshawar in grief and fear and unleashing a tide of anger. But most of the outrage expressed by survivors, witnesses, religious leaders and other residents this week was not directed at Islamist extremist groups, whom the government has blamed for the attack, but at the countries many Pakistanis see as their true enemies: India, Israel and the United States.
In part, this reaction stems from a deep popular conviction that no Muslim could perpetrate such atrocities against other Muslims. The more egregious the attack, the stronger seems the tendency to deny a domestic cause and blame other, more remote culprits. Some religious and political groups are encouraging such responses, eager to whip up xenophobic sentiment for their own ends.
This week, the influential Jamaat-e-Islami religious party organized a "peace march" in central Peshawar from the Khyber Bazaar, where a car bomb killed more than 30 people Oct. 9, to the Mina Bazaar. The marchers held up banners and shouted slogans denouncing the CIA, the Pentagon, the security company formerly known as Blackwater, U.S. drone attacks and American aid. There was no mention of the Taliban or al-Qaeda.
"Muslims! Muslims! We are here to protest against those wrongdoers who work for India, Israel and the United States," a well-dressed, middle-aged rally organizer shouted through a bullhorn. "We protest against American interference and against our government, which is handing over Pakistan to the foreigners and the unbelievers."
Spokesmen for the Pakistani Taliban and al-Qaeda denied responsibility for the Mina Bazaar blast, saying they condemned the killing of innocents. But Pakistani and U.S. officials say the recent wave of bombings has been in direct retaliation for an ongoing army operation against Taliban tribal sanctuaries in the northwest border region of South Waziristan that began about one month ago.
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Militants have also gone after a range of targets in other Pakistani cities, striking at an Islamic university and a U.N. compound in Islamabad, army facilities in Rawalpindi and police academies in Lahore. The widening terrorist scourge has increased public antipathy for the militants, solidified support for the military crackdown and turned the capital into a virtual garrison city, with riot police and traffic checks every few blocks.
Opinion polls have shown that most Pakistanis regard al-Qaeda and the Taliban as a threat. Yet Pakistanis, always sensitive to foreign intrusion, are volubly unhappy about the air strikes by U.S. unmanned planes that have been targeting al-Qaeda and Taliban leaders, sometimes killing civilians. When Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton visited Pakistan recently, audiences grilled her about the drone attacks, the ongoing U.S. Embassy expansion and persistent rumors that private U.S. security contractors are prowling Pakistan in search of its nuclear arsenal.
A city under siege
In Peshawar, which borders the tribal belt, the spillover from the South Waziristan conflict has been especially grim. Since the army operation began, more than 250 people have been killed here in half a dozen bombings at restaurants, mosques, army facilities and busy markets.
The attacks have changed the way of life in this ancient, unhurried city near the Afghan border. For generations, it has been a world of plodding donkeys, creaking horse carts, shaded religious shrines and twisting alleys of tiny shops, where bargaining is often a leisurely ritual over bowls of green tea.
Now, no one lingers. A wave of bombings in the past month, culminating in the deadliest blast yet at the bustling market Oct. 28, has sent a jolt of panic through the city of 2 million. Police search cars and then hustle drivers on their way. Shoppers grab their purchases and go. Mosques empty quickly after prayers, and tea stalls have few customers.
"Our life will never be the same," said Bahkt Lal, 26, whose family has owned a restaurant near the Mina Bazaar since 1920. He was cooking lunch when the bomb exploded and the building he was in collapsed. His brother was crushed to death, and Lal was hit on the head. "At night I still think the walls are falling on me," he said. "No one knows when the next attack will come. I am afraid to sit inside or go out."
Unswayed by evidence
Yet as workers continued sifting through the rubble of the Mina Bazaar this week, spewing clouds of plaster dust, shopkeepers and survivors alike insisted that foreign hands were behind the attack.
Shah Zamin, 35, who sells bales of raw cotton, said the stall ignited when the bomb exploded, engulfing his brother in flames. "I tried to save him, but his body was too hot to touch. He fell and died in front of me," Zamin said, grimacing at the memory. "I am certain that the Taliban would never do this terrible thing. It must be the foreigners, who want to give a bad name to Islam."
There was ample evidence, however, that the attackers had an Islamic fundamentalist agenda of keeping women in seclusion. Merchants sweeping out broken glass from women's clothing and sundry shops said unsigned posters had appeared in the bazaar shortly before the bombing, warning them not to sell cosmetics or display female mannequins.
Several miles away, in a rustic cemetery surrounding the historical Rahman Baba shrine, the bodies of a dozen women and children from the blast lay buried under new mounds of earth, some decorated with tinsel hearts or tiny plants. Gravediggers said they had never had to perform such grisly duty.
"They brought us bags with arms and legs, bodies burned so badly no one could identify them," said Fauji, 45, a graveyard tender. The message asked mourners not to weep but to recite from the Koran. "This is the worst thing I have ever seen," Fauji said. "It must have been the work of foreign hands."
washingtonpost.com
Wow 2nd US paper to say what India's been saying all along. Time for us to go on an "I told you so" blitzkrieg.
ppgj
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surprising and shocking why they refuse to beleive what is as clear as daylight!!
shias have been persecuted and killed for decades now. are they not muslims?? what ails pakistan? there are no simple answers. they need to seriously introspect. they will be consumed if they don't find answers and they have to find them fast!! may god save them.
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fullstory
Will give evidence of Indian role in Balochistan: Gilani
Islamabad, Nov 26 (PTI) Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani today said Pakistan will produce evidence of India's alleged involvement in fomenting unrest in the tribal areas and Balochistan when there is a need to do so.
"We are not silent on the issue. When we talk about such evidence, the timing and forum to make them public have to be determined.
When there is a need, we will produce the evidence at that time," Gilani told a news conference at his official residence.
He was responding to a question on when Pakistan would make public the evidence it has of India?s alleged interference in Balochistan and the tribal belt bordering Afghanistan.
Gilani did not give details of the evidence that Pakistan has purportedly gathered.
Will give evidence of Indian role in Balochistan: Gilani
Islamabad, Nov 26 (PTI) Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani today said Pakistan will produce evidence of India's alleged involvement in fomenting unrest in the tribal areas and Balochistan when there is a need to do so.
"We are not silent on the issue. When we talk about such evidence, the timing and forum to make them public have to be determined.
When there is a need, we will produce the evidence at that time," Gilani told a news conference at his official residence.
He was responding to a question on when Pakistan would make public the evidence it has of India?s alleged interference in Balochistan and the tribal belt bordering Afghanistan.
Gilani did not give details of the evidence that Pakistan has purportedly gathered.
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