Al-Khalid MBT And Pakistani Armour

garg_bharat

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Increasing armour thickness is not the solution. Light tanks with active protection systems will be as or more effective.

Time has come for 25 ton amphibious tank with protection similar to ifv.

Active protection systems to defeat infrared and laser guided missiles and maybe kinetic energy rounds to shoot at incoming projectiles. This is I think is needed.
 

garg_bharat

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Tank's primary benefit is element of surprise through mobility. I think an amphibious tank is better as bridging systems are bulky and bridges take time to build.
 

The Last Stand

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http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17902

There is a good discussion there, but most important notes on Page 3

From what I know (I haven't kept up for over a year and a half)

We have an old Russian round, and an Israeli round(s) that slightly outperforms it. These would be expected to have about 500 mm penetration LOS, so not that impressive. Enough for Pak T-55/Al-Zarrar, but nowhere near what is needed on T-80 front. These rounds are NOT in production.

After research work, DRDO came up with the indigenous

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/ammunition/lc/37.htm - the MK.1 round and a few years later,
http://www.ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/ammunition/lc/26.htm - I don't know if this is the MK.2, but the other round in production

It was reported MK.2 passed trials and entered service, but idk if it got redesignated or they kept it secret on purpose.

We also bought the 3BM42 round from Russia (not latest, but pretty close to 3BM48, the best) is being bought, and these have penetration 600 LOS, so I would say they are still not enough to penetrate a Pakistani T-80UD full on (You would need the M829A2+/DM53 for this) but sufficient to penetrate from weakspots on the front/side without a problem.

http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/ARM/apfsds/ammo.html

3BM42 described in that page at the end. (3rd from bottom, it is a common round apparently)
 

The Last Stand

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CORRECTION: It is 3BM42M that has the impressive performance, and I'm not sure whether we are getting that or the quite older 3BM42

3BM42 would perform exactly the same as the Israeli rounds at best
 

Bornubus

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http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=17902

There is a good discussion there, but most important notes on Page 3

From what I know (I haven't kept up for over a year and a half)

We have an old Russian round, and an Israeli round(s) that slightly outperforms it. These would be expected to have about 500 mm penetration LOS, so not that impressive. Enough for Pak T-55/Al-Zarrar, but nowhere near what is needed on T-80 front. These rounds are NOT in production.

After research work, DRDO came up with the indigenous

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/ammunition/lc/37.htm - the MK.1 round and a few years later,
http://www.ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/ammunition/lc/26.htm - I don't know if this is the MK.2, but the other round in production

It was reported MK.2 passed trials and entered service, but idk if it got redesignated or they kept it secret on purpose.

We also bought the 3BM42 round from Russia (not latest, but pretty close to 3BM48, the best) is being bought, and these have penetration 600 LOS, so I would say they are still not enough to penetrate a Pakistani T-80UD full on (You would need the M829A2+/DM53 for this) but sufficient to penetrate from weakspots on the front/side without a problem.

http://fofanov.armor.kiev.ua/Tanks/ARM/apfsds/ammo.html

3BM42 described in that page at the end. (3rd from bottom, it is a common round apparently)
Yeah T 80U is better protected than AK.
 

The Last Stand

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Yeah T 80U is better protected than AK.
Sir, I have also posted a correction.

I would like to note that tank rounds will penetrate other tanks 99% only when the shot is to the side and not the front unless it hits a weakspot (very hard with ranged fighting and it takes time to zero in the barrel as well) and our best chances of blowing up a tank are with ATGMs, Helicopter launched missiles or flanking maneuvers.

The top of tanks are not that well protected because of weight constraint, so that's why today's ATGM have a top attack profile. Generally the top does not have ERA/NERA protection or very low and not too much armour, so it is what we try to aim for.
 

Bornubus

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Sir, I have also posted a correction.

I would like to note that tank rounds will penetrate other tanks 99% only when the shot is to the side and not the front unless it hits a weakspot (very hard with ranged fighting and it takes time to zero in the barrel as well) and our best chances of blowing up a tank are with ATGMs, Helicopter launched missiles or flanking maneuvers.

The top of tanks are not that well protected because of weight constraint, so that's why today's ATGM have a top attack profile. Generally the top does not have ERA/NERA protection or very low and not too much armour, so it is what we try to aim for.
T90M bhishma made in avadi since 2009 has a newer 2a46m 5 gun so it could use the latest round beyond Mango rounds.

T 90M Bhishma is 1.5 times capable than older T 90S according to trishul.
 

pmaitra

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@pmaitra

Could you shed some light on Ammo type used by Bhishma ?
We have a thread on ammo types.

I am very busy these days. This is tax season. So, I will keep it short.

One advantage, as explained by some members, is that T-90 has a smoothbore while Arjun has a rifle. Hence, it is easy to manufacture Sabot (APFSDS) for T-90 than for Arjun. From some recent reports that I have heard, we now have Sabots that can be fired from the Arjun.

Other than that, there are HESH/HEP and HEAT rounds. Nothing extraordinary.
 

Zarvan

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http://nocookies.**********/data/2016/03/480780_9fcaae76aa1e0f950fb1caed0cbad0d2.jpg
AL KHALID Tanks during this year Military Parade practice
 
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garg_bharat

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Can somebody write about performance of T-80 in actual war like recent Ukraine or Chechnya.
 

Zarvan

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Full day rehearsal of Pakistan Day Parade will take place today
 
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garg_bharat

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Your AL KHALID is worse than T-90 and more expensive. Your Chinese friend fleeced you.
 

Zarvan

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Your AL KHALID is worse than T-90 and more expensive. Your Chinese friend fleeced you.
It's far better than AL KHALID and as for Chinese Mr we have done major changes in AL KHALID many parts are from Europe and your Army knows our AL KHALID
 

OverLoad

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It's far better than AL KHALID and as for Chinese Mr we have done major changes in AL KHALID many parts are from Europe and your Army knows our AL KHALID
No Sir all the parts either Chinese or Pakistani origin and as per reports Al Khalid performance is not satisfactory that is why why P.A decided to go for totally new platform. Al Khalid is not forced on us we opted for that even after Chinese suggestion against it. Now it is 100% confirmed new tank will be MBT-3000 without any modification and will produce in HIT with TOT.
 

Zarvan

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No Sir all the parts either Chinese or Pakistani origin and as per reports Al Khalid performance is not satisfactory that is why why P.A decided to go for totally new platform. Al Khalid is not forced on us we opted for that even after Chinese suggestion against it. Now it is 100% confirmed new tank will be MBT-3000 without any modification and will produce in HIT with TOT.
Who told you that ? You are totally wrong . First engine is from Ukraine and other parts are from France Germany. Secondly We are satisfied with AL KHALID and we are making new versions of it because as time progresses you come up with new versions. Finally Mr no we are not buying MBT-3000 in fact we have rejected it. Secondly that AL HAIDER project is to replace older Tanks like T-59 and T-69 and T-85. It has nothing to do with AL KHALID. So before talking get your facts right Mr.
 

Navnit Kundu

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engine is from Ukraine and other parts are from France Germany.
So, only the metal is from Pakistan? What's Pakistan's intellectual contribution to the inception of the tank? Even the official Wiki page for the tank shows that it is indeed a derivative of the Chinese tank. By 'derivative', I mean Chinese equipment with green paint, as usual.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Khalid_tank
 
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Zarvan

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So, only the metal is from Pakistan? What's Pakistan's intellectual contribution to the inception of the tank? Even the official Wiki page for the tank shows that it is indeed a derivative of the Chinese tank. By 'derivative', I mean Chinese equipment with green paint, as usual.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Khalid_tank
Please find a better source. Even in Arjun most parts are from other countries you just assembled them together Mr. Same goes for TEJAS. We bought different things best suite for our AL KHALID and fit them in. AL KHALID 1 is a great beast and soon would come AL KHALID II. We are doing great AL KHALID 1 is doing great and we are really satisfied.
 

OverLoad

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So, only the metal is from Pakistan? What's Pakistan's intellectual contribution to the inception of the tank? Even the official Wiki page for the tank shows that it is indeed a derivative of the Chinese tank. By 'derivative', I mean Chinese equipment with green paint, as usual.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Khalid_tank
Not exactly but we produce parts under TOT at HIT.
 

Navnit Kundu

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Please find a better source. Even in Arjun most parts are from other countries you just assembled them together Mr. Same goes for TEJAS. We bought different things best suite for our AL KHALID and fit them in. AL KHALID 1 is a great beast and soon would come AL KHALID II. We are doing great AL KHALID 1 is doing great and we are really satisfied.
So, Wikipedia's credibility is not reputable enough? Even your fellow brethren has admitted that it's just a foreign designed made under TOT, no indigenous design. Arjun has at least 70% indigenous design, only peripherals like night vision are foreign, and even that is purchased because it's cheaper to buy peripherals off the shelf than to start a dedicated R&D department for each small component.

Al Khalid is just Chinese MBT2000 with Pakistani paint and grass camouflage. If Pakistan had at least added a polio drops dispenser in the tank then it would have been a commendable upgrade.




 

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