Aircraft Carrier Based AWACS for Indian Navy Importance

kuku

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The French will have CATOBAR on their ships and will also operate the E-2. The British may work on something similar. A hybrid STOVL for the F-35 and CATOBAR for the E-2. Who knows what we may go for? We intend to field these carriers only after 2020.
The design study, vessel design, R&D on components will have to start much earlier than the construction. Well that is true, no one knows what we will go for.
On a side note: The F-35 is already way too advanced for us to bother with. There are 2 versions of EW suites on the F-35. One is being built by LM for US and the other is being built by BAE for export.

Anyways, India "may" face similar restrictions with the MRCA deal. Then, I doubt we will go with the American fighters especially considering IAF love to tinker with their aircraft.
There is just one contract for development of a EW suit and it’s with BAE and the contract has been awarded to them by LM.
Then that's fine in the short run. In the long run we will have to look for our own version. No doubt the Chinese and Russians will want to work on their own AEW aircraft too.
By my estimation, when the time to produce a plane comes it will be 30-40 years from now, the technology would have jumped to a whole new level and we will have a cutting edge electronics and aviation industry. Advanced early warning might have a completely different meaning by that time.
Link 22 of course or do you mean the ODL.
ODL for the Indian military, others are not worth in a military configured around something else.
Mate the 2 pictures I posted were both meant for carrier aviation. An-71 and Yak-44.

An interesting read
Mate of the two planes An-71 is a failure that could not take off a ski-jump carrier on its own power, and the Yak-44 never got past the wooden mock up stage, after receiving no funding from home or abroad its dead, now the engineers working on it are long retired, and i doubt the experience anyone would have kept from a mock up, the requirement is a completely new program.
The Russians will go for STOBAR, no STOVL since they plan to use Flankers for their carriers. CATOBAR, I doubt it.

The Russians will employ AEW on carriers since they have already worked on it before. The An-71 and Yak-44 were being built for STOBAR operation.
They have not completed their study for the future carriers, i doubt the decision is final, and they have been quoted saying that fifth generatin planes on the future carriers are a requirement, i think the timeline they have in mind is quite similar to ours, however much needs to happen before anything is for certain.

I guess now is just not the right time to be talking about these projects.
 

p2prada

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There is just one contract for development of a EW suit and it’s with BAE and the contract has been awarded to them by LM.
Ah! Ok. I did not know that.

By my estimation, when the time to produce a plane comes it will be 30-40 years from now, the technology would have jumped to a whole new level and we will have a cutting edge electronics and aviation industry. Advanced early warning might have a completely different meaning by that time.
We, making the plane itself, then yes.

Mate of the two planes An-71 is a failure that could not take off a ski-jump carrier on its own power, and the Yak-44 never got past the wooden mock up stage, after receiving no funding from home or abroad its dead, now the engineers working on it are long retired, and i doubt the experience anyone would have kept from a mock up, the requirement is a completely new program.
But, the technology exists. Modified airframe requirements for a marine environment, landing gears, use of arrestor cables for wide bodied aircraft, quality of the cables and the airframe, newer engines, radars etc. If they do start the project, they will not take years to finish. Meaning they don't need to start from scratch.

I guess now is just not the right time to be talking about these projects.
Yup. Its too far away for us to pursue the subject.
 

enlightened1

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V-22 in the Indian Navy











Notwithstanding the efforts of the Indian Air Force (IAF) to acquire fixed-wing and rotary-winged transportation aircraft for medium- and heavy-lift operations, the Indian Navy is determined to acquire its own seaborne integral air transportation assets for the Indian Army's projected combat aviation brigade, and its 91 Infantry Brigade, which is now being reconfigured as an amphibious brigade. For enabling both these brigades to undertake all-weather expeditionary campaigns via vertical envelopment (as part of joint services power projection operations) the Indian Navy has reportedly begun seriously evaluating the performance of the Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey ‘tilt-rotor’ aircraft, so called because it takes off with its twin wingtip-mounted rotors set vertically like a helicopter and glides in the air with them thrust forward as on a fixed-wing aircraft. The shift requires only a pull of the lever by the pilot. The Navy is apparently convinced that in terms of weight, cargo, distance or speed (it can travel twice as fast and three times farther than any existing medium-lift utility helicopter) the once derided Osprey has finally emerged as the vital game-changing force multiplier when employed for effecting maritime/amphibious manoeuvres from the sea, as well as for high-altitude, all-weather air assault, aerial logistics and casualty evacuation over mountainous terrain of the type prevalent along India’s northern and northeastern borders (this also explains the IAF's new-found interest in the Osprey). Being able to cruise at altitudes of 25,000 feet allows the Osprey you to clear obstacles that today’s helicopters like the CH-47F Chinook or AW-101 or Mi-26T cannot even negotiate. Though such helicopters can airlift things, and probably more than the Osprey can, they still cannot arrive at their landing/drop zones from altitude. Nor can they do the transit times and ranges. Furthermore, while existing medium-/heavy-lift helicopters typically require between 24 and 40 man-hours of maintenance for every hour in the air, the Osprey requires only about 9.5 man-hours of maintenance for every hour of flight, and consequently its direct operating costs too are drastically reduced.
The V-22 is best employed as a vertical takeoff-cum-landing platform capable of rapidly deploying air assault and special operations forces to any theatre of operation over both land and sea. This will facilitate the timely build-up of combat forces while minimising the demands of sealift and airlift assets for expeditionary force projection campaigns. While the US Marine Corps is using its MV-22Bs to perform combat assault and combat support missions, the US Air Force’s Special Operations Command’s CV-22s have been configured for terrain-following, low-level, high-speed flight in a variety of special operations missions. The US Navy’s MV-22s will perform combat support missions. Boeing Rotorcraft Systems is responsible for the fuselage and all subsystems, digital avionics, and fly-by-wire flight-control systems. Boeing’s industrial partner Bell Helicopter Textron is responsible for the wing, transmissions, empennage, rotor systems and engine installation. The Osprey is presently being series-produced in three customer-specific versions--50 CV-22s are in delivery to the US Air Force, 360 MV-22Bs to the US Marine Corps and 48 V-22s to the US Navy. Although the Osprey’s per unit cost is estimated at US$100 million, no less than 15 countries (India included) are seriously considering its acquisition in the near future. The Indian Navy is believed to require about 40 Ospreys over a 10-year period (including about six platforms configured for AEW & C operations). Each such tilt-rotor aircraft can carry 24 fully-equipped combat troops, or up to 20,000 pounds of internal cargo or 15,000 pounds of external cargo, at twice the speed of a helicopter. The Osprey also features cross-coupled transmissions so that either engine can power the rotors if one engine fails. The rotors can fold and the wing rotates so the aircraft can be stored on board an aircraft carrier or LPD/LHD. It also has a fixed aerial refuelling boom for being refuelled in mid-air by aircraft like the Lockheed Martin-built C-130J-30 Super Hercules, six of which are on order for the IAF. The Osprey comes powered by twin Rolls-Royce AE1107C turboshaft engines each rated at 6,150shp, has a service ceiling of 25,000 feet (7,620 metres), and has an unrefuelled mission radius with 24 troops of 390nm (722km).

Courtesy: Prasun K Sengupta & Wikipedia
 

redpearl75

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Well, Indian Navy is gonna operate medium sized aircraft carriers for the next two dacads, and that won't be able to support AEW/AWAC except the KA 31s... Unless and until IN satrts working on something big at least a carrier sized nearing 300Ms it won't be able to support AWACS, but one more option is to get Phalcons in more quantity and some for the Navy as well and this will be enough to provide support but the problem comes in a war situation where IN will have to operate in distant territories and at that time there is a need for ship bourn AWAC planes and we need to work up on that... Its gonna play a vital role, I heard from somewhere:

"In addition to its fighters, the Gorshkov-Vikramaditya’s complement will include Kamov Ka-31 AEW and/or Ka-28 multi-role helicopters, along with a complement of torpedo tubes, and a CIWS gatling gun for close in defense after 2017. The Gorshkov would be large enough to operate full naval AWACS aircraft. If rumors prove true and India does indeed buy E-2C+/E-2D Hawkeyes, they would be added to this mix and take up footprint slots of their own."

Now if that's the case that its good....
 

AJSINGH

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how about awacs version fo V-22 osprey ..that can be good option too
 

IBRIS

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US clears Hawkeye E-2D aircraft for India

NEW DELHI: The US government cleared yet another high technology system for India, the ‘‘futuristic’’ shipboard Hawkeye E-2D aircraft for Airborne
Early Warning (AEW) and battle management.

The clearance has been described by diplomatic sources as a fallout of the ‘‘successful’’ visit of secretary of state Hillary Clinton and the signing of the End User Monitoring Agreement (EUMA) of military equipment being supplied or sold by the US to India. Like the Boeing P 8I Maritime Multi-mission Aircraft (MMA), of which the Indian Navy has already ordered eight aircraft, the Hawkeye E-2D is the very latest and is yet to be delivered to the US Navy.

India is the second country, after the UAE, to be cleared by the US state and defence departments for sale of this sophisticated system. The US navy has sanctioned $432 million for trials of the aircraft, currently underway at the naval air station Patuxent River in Maryland. The naval systems command based there provides engineering and testing support for new naval systems and weapons.

The Hawkeye E-2D has been under the US government’s consideration for India for some time. In fact, in 2007, Pentagon sources in Washington indicated the aircraft was being cleared, but apparently the previous version, Hawkeye E-2C, was eventually offered to which the Indian navy said ‘‘no’’ in informal discussions.

The aircraft is being manufactured by Northrop Grumman, a leading US player in aerospace, warships, missiles, combat radars and electronic warfare systems.

Northrop Grumman’s programme manager for international business development Tom C Trudell told a magazine that the aircraft has ‘‘just been cleared by the US government for India’’ and that a presentation was made to the Indian navy in August in New Delhi.

Indian navy officers had witnessed the capabilities of the Hawkeye E-2C but told the US officials that as the equipment India buys would be used for years, it must be the best and the latest with future capability insertion potential.

Future aircraft carriers of the Indian navy would also have to be equipped with catapult launching systems, for which it is already looking around.
US clears Hawkeye E-2D aircraft for India - India - NEWS - The Times of India









 

natarajan

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musharaff himself accepted that usa aid was mainly used for deterrence against india so its waste of going behing usa we should show some dissatisfaction to stop this aid
 

shankarosky

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All said and done Hawk eye if inducted will be superb for indian navy - but how do we operate out of existing assets
 

sandeepdg

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The E2D Advanced Hawkeye is an excellent AEW/AWACS platform, but what i don't understand is that how useful will it be if has to be land based since we don't have an CATOBAR type AC as of now !
 

icecoolben

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The E2D Advanced Hawkeye is an excellent AEW/AWACS platform, but what i don't understand is that how useful will it be if has to be land based since we don't have an CATOBAR type AC as of now !
indian navy has partnered elbit systems of israel to build emals that can launch hawkeye. They will be land based and india required at least 8 to gaurd its entire coast line.
 

enlightened1

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AFAIK, the only thing related to EMALS & the Indian Navy was this statement from Admiral Sureesh Mehta (Retd)
"When catapult technology improves, we are looking at building conventional carriers with electric rather than steam catapults"..
source
 

bsn4u1985

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i don't think vikrant class aircraft carrier big enough to adapt E-2D HAWKEYE .so they opted for ka-31 erly warning hellicopters.but IN is thinking of using E-2D as a ground based early warning system.
 

enlightened1

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i don't think vikrant class aircraft carrier big enough to adapt E-2D HAWKEYE .so they opted for ka-31 erly warning hellicopters.but IN is thinking of using E-2D as a ground based early warning system.
Vikrant is big enough..it's approximately the same size of France's Charles De Gaule which embarks 2 hawkeyes. The handicap is the ski-jump.
 

bsn4u1985

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Vikrant is big enough..it's approximately the same size of France's Charles De Gaule which embarks 2 hawkeyes. The handicap is the ski-jump.
both are approximately of same size but the design is different where France's Charles De Gaule(42000ton) can accomodate 40 aircraft, including
*Rafale
*Super Étendard
*E-2C Hawkeye
*SA365 Dauphin helicopters
where vikrant class AC can accomodate(40000ton) :30 Mikoyan MiG-29K + HAL Tejas
+ Ka-31 'Helix' or HAL Dhruv

for the design both vikrant class and ins vikramadithya criticised for can't operate both landing and take offs at the same time..and its storage capcity......
 

enlightened1

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both are approximately of same size but the design is different where France's Charles De Gaule(42000ton) can accomodate 40 aircraft, including
*Rafale
*Super Étendard
*E-2C Hawkeye
*SA365 Dauphin helicopters
where vikrant class AC can accomodate(40000ton) :30 Mikoyan MiG-29K + HAL Tejas
+ Ka-31 'Helix' or HAL Dhruv
The empty weight of the CDG is 38000T & the Vikrant is 37500T, their full load is nearly the same. Virkant could embark 40+ aircrafts too..IF it had catapults. When you have steam catapults there is more space to park the aircrafts.
for the design both vikrant class and ins vikramadithya criticised for can't operate both landing and take offs at the same time..and its storage capcity......
Exactly! That's why future aircraft carriers of the Indian Navy SHOULD have catapults! Both carriers are pretty much the same, difference is lack of catapults & nuclear propulsion.
 

srinivas

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definetly informative. looking out for more info on future threats and employement of AWACS to deter them.
 

Armand2REP

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Fixed-wing AWACs is a necessity if you want a blue water carrier taskforce. You need the range, endurance and coverage it provides that helicopter AEW does not. If India relies on Helix AEW, they will be blind compared to any fleet or AF that has it.
 

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