gadeshi
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2013
- Messages
- 9,223
- Likes
- 6,636
It's not Photoshop, it's real nose arts.
Air Combat in Syria
- Thread starter gadeshi
- Start date
pmaitra
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2009
- Messages
- 33,262
- Likes
- 19,594
gadeshi
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2013
- Messages
- 9,223
- Likes
- 6,636
Yeah, raw power and inteligent brute forceOh, then they did a pretty good job of it.
Want to know my favourite?
Yamal
Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk
pmaitra
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2009
- Messages
- 33,262
- Likes
- 19,594
What Makes Russia’s Air Campaign in Syria so Impressive
Originally appeared in The National Interest
The Russian air force in Syria seems to be generating close to the theoretical maximum number of sorties possible for thirty-two fixed-wing combat aircraft. That’s of course assuming the Russians are providing factually accurate information about their operations in Latakia.
According to the Russian Ministry of Defense, Moscow’s forces flew eighty-eight combat sorties while hitting eighty-six ISIS targets in a twenty-four hour span. “In the course of the last 24 hours, Su-34, Su-24M and Su-25SM aircraft performed 88 combat sorties engaging 86 ISIS facilities located in the Raqqah, Hama, Idlib, Latakia and Aleppo provinces,” reads an Oct. 13 Russian Ministry of Defense statement.
While there might be some dispute over whether the Russians are hitting ISIS targets versus other Syrian rebel groups opposed to the Assad regime, if the sortie generation number is accurate—it is an extremely impressive feat. That would put the Vozdushno-KosmicheskieSily Rossii on par with the U.S. Air Force and U.S. Navy in terms of turning aircraft. But while the Russian forces might be able to surge their sortie generation rate up to eighty-eight per day, it remains to be seen if they can maintain that pace for long.
The most optimistic U.S. military officials had predicted that the Russian forces would be able to generate a theoretical maximum of ninety-six sorties per day—but most officials dismissed that as wildly optimistic. “With thirty-two on the ramp, I think they’ll probably be able to fly twenty-four jets per day,” one recently retired U.S. Air Force fighter pilot told me. “Depending on sortie duration and whether they’re flying at night, they may get between two and four sorties per jet, per day. So I think the range is probably between forty-eight and ninety-six sorties per day.”
However, the vast majority of U.S. military officials had predicted a far lower sortie generation rate from the Russian military. Most had predicted a sortie generation rate of around twenty per day. “If I had thirty-two airplanes and they were all different I think we could—with good logistics—get a four-turn-four from the Su-24s, a four-turn-four from the Su-25s, and two-turn-twos from the Su-30s and Su-34s…” another U.S. Air Force official had predicted. “So that’s twenty-four sorties a day.”
But several U.S. Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps official had noted that Russian jets are extremely “rugged” and could be surprisingly reliable—especially since Soviet aircraft often have a lot of common parts. “They have more interoperability between their planes and they were designed to be easy to work on,” another Air Force official had said.
As with their surprise Caspian Sea cruise missile raid from last week —which was launched from tiny corvettes and a small frigate—Russian forces continue to demonstrate a level of capability that seems to have caught some off guard. Eighty-eight sorties per day is not far off from the maximum theoretical predicted number of ninety-six per day. This seems to demonstrate that the Russian forces have recovered from their near complete implosion in the mid-1990s in the immediate aftermath of the Soviet collapse. Certainly, it demonstrates that the Russian forces in Syria are well trained and well supplied. But the question remains—how long can they keep it up?
_____________________________________________________________________
Commentary: Apropos the question how long Russia can keep it up, I would like to remind everyone that at the end of it all, it is the foot soldiers who will have to win the final war. One should not, and I believe Russia does not anticipate total victory by air-power alone. The Russians have been candid about it. They want to help the Syrian government by hitting the terrorists’ capability to wage war. They don't want to fight the war for the Syrian government. This is called learning a lesson from past mistakes. Unlike the Soviet-Mujahideen War, where the Soviet Union was allied and on the ground with the Sunni Afghans against the Sunni Afghan, Pakistani, and Arab terrorists, this time Russia is avoiding ground troops and is allied with what is called the Shia crescent, which is a sworn enemy of the Wahhabi alliance led by Saudi Arabia and backed by the US.
- The Russians are flying close to the theoretical maximum of missions implying excellent logistics
- Incidentally something the author previously doubted the Russians could do ― while RI’s Daniel Fielding correctly had far more confidence
Originally appeared in The National Interest
The Russian air force in Syria seems to be generating close to the theoretical maximum number of sorties possible for thirty-two fixed-wing combat aircraft. That’s of course assuming the Russians are providing factually accurate information about their operations in Latakia.
According to the Russian Ministry of Defense, Moscow’s forces flew eighty-eight combat sorties while hitting eighty-six ISIS targets in a twenty-four hour span. “In the course of the last 24 hours, Su-34, Su-24M and Su-25SM aircraft performed 88 combat sorties engaging 86 ISIS facilities located in the Raqqah, Hama, Idlib, Latakia and Aleppo provinces,” reads an Oct. 13 Russian Ministry of Defense statement.
While there might be some dispute over whether the Russians are hitting ISIS targets versus other Syrian rebel groups opposed to the Assad regime, if the sortie generation number is accurate—it is an extremely impressive feat. That would put the Vozdushno-KosmicheskieSily Rossii on par with the U.S. Air Force and U.S. Navy in terms of turning aircraft. But while the Russian forces might be able to surge their sortie generation rate up to eighty-eight per day, it remains to be seen if they can maintain that pace for long.
The most optimistic U.S. military officials had predicted that the Russian forces would be able to generate a theoretical maximum of ninety-six sorties per day—but most officials dismissed that as wildly optimistic. “With thirty-two on the ramp, I think they’ll probably be able to fly twenty-four jets per day,” one recently retired U.S. Air Force fighter pilot told me. “Depending on sortie duration and whether they’re flying at night, they may get between two and four sorties per jet, per day. So I think the range is probably between forty-eight and ninety-six sorties per day.”
However, the vast majority of U.S. military officials had predicted a far lower sortie generation rate from the Russian military. Most had predicted a sortie generation rate of around twenty per day. “If I had thirty-two airplanes and they were all different I think we could—with good logistics—get a four-turn-four from the Su-24s, a four-turn-four from the Su-25s, and two-turn-twos from the Su-30s and Su-34s…” another U.S. Air Force official had predicted. “So that’s twenty-four sorties a day.”
But several U.S. Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps official had noted that Russian jets are extremely “rugged” and could be surprisingly reliable—especially since Soviet aircraft often have a lot of common parts. “They have more interoperability between their planes and they were designed to be easy to work on,” another Air Force official had said.
As with their surprise Caspian Sea cruise missile raid from last week —which was launched from tiny corvettes and a small frigate—Russian forces continue to demonstrate a level of capability that seems to have caught some off guard. Eighty-eight sorties per day is not far off from the maximum theoretical predicted number of ninety-six per day. This seems to demonstrate that the Russian forces have recovered from their near complete implosion in the mid-1990s in the immediate aftermath of the Soviet collapse. Certainly, it demonstrates that the Russian forces in Syria are well trained and well supplied. But the question remains—how long can they keep it up?
_____________________________________________________________________
Commentary: Apropos the question how long Russia can keep it up, I would like to remind everyone that at the end of it all, it is the foot soldiers who will have to win the final war. One should not, and I believe Russia does not anticipate total victory by air-power alone. The Russians have been candid about it. They want to help the Syrian government by hitting the terrorists’ capability to wage war. They don't want to fight the war for the Syrian government. This is called learning a lesson from past mistakes. Unlike the Soviet-Mujahideen War, where the Soviet Union was allied and on the ground with the Sunni Afghans against the Sunni Afghan, Pakistani, and Arab terrorists, this time Russia is avoiding ground troops and is allied with what is called the Shia crescent, which is a sworn enemy of the Wahhabi alliance led by Saudi Arabia and backed by the US.
gadeshi
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2013
- Messages
- 9,223
- Likes
- 6,636
VKS now combines Air Force, Space Command, Air and BM Defence under one integrated hand
apple
Regular Member
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2011
- Messages
- 612
- Likes
- 174
Sortie rate for Russia planes in Syria drops.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...inst-Syrian-rebels-as-intervention-fails.html
Russia Insider sinks to spectacularly low level of other pro Russian media sources and the Moderator, who shan't be named, continues with his drivel.
Isn't Majumdar, the author of the fluff piece a couple of posts above, an Indian name? Presume "Dave" Majumdar's real name is Dav/ something Hindu. Would seem pro Russian Indians are all over the internet.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...inst-Syrian-rebels-as-intervention-fails.html
Russia Insider sinks to spectacularly low level of other pro Russian media sources and the Moderator, who shan't be named, continues with his drivel.
Isn't Majumdar, the author of the fluff piece a couple of posts above, an Indian name? Presume "Dave" Majumdar's real name is Dav/ something Hindu. Would seem pro Russian Indians are all over the internet.
gadeshi
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2013
- Messages
- 9,223
- Likes
- 6,636
This is saying nothing bullshit.
Russians do not heat civilian targets just to sustain flight rates.
Yesterday was 86, which is close to theoretical maximum of 96 for 32 planes BTW.
So, if density lowers, than it means that new targets are getting designated and approved by several intlligence sources, not something else.
Russians do not heat civilian targets just to sustain flight rates.
Yesterday was 86, which is close to theoretical maximum of 96 for 32 planes BTW.
So, if density lowers, than it means that new targets are getting designated and approved by several intlligence sources, not something else.
Dev (देव in Devnagri script) is very near to "Dave" as an American would pronounce it.
But if you transliterate Dave to Devnagri script then it is correctly returned as दावे.
That extra "I" like mātrā (vowels and dipthongs), has a sound value of "ā" (long vowel).
That "\" like on the top has a sound value of "ai" (dipthong).
But if an english speaking person spells Dev (देव) then he will actually end up saying Dave.
Could be that Dave Majumdar was Dev Majumdar originally but changed his name to fit in and get accepted because the people around him could pronounce it only in that approximate way.
But if you transliterate Dave to Devnagri script then it is correctly returned as दावे.
That extra "I" like mātrā (vowels and dipthongs), has a sound value of "ā" (long vowel).
That "\" like on the top has a sound value of "ai" (dipthong).
But if an english speaking person spells Dev (देव) then he will actually end up saying Dave.
Could be that Dave Majumdar was Dev Majumdar originally but changed his name to fit in and get accepted because the people around him could pronounce it only in that approximate way.
apple
Regular Member
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2011
- Messages
- 612
- Likes
- 174
Sure, there are all sorts of legitimate military reason for the daily sortie rate being whatever it is.
That's why the source I linked to, The Telegraph, used exclamations marks "" and words like appear in it's headline. The Telegraph, unlike Russian Insider, is a legitimate media source who don't make them things up, nor twist facts. Well, they were twisting facts a bit by saying the air assault is appearing to fail due to sortie rates. But, they had a story, a source and used the word appear in the headline. Responsible adults can understand what they mean.
Sure, thanks for the explanation. "Dave" is just a bit of dodgy one. David was the King of the Jews and Jesus's great- great (insert many more greats here) grandfather who was a very important Biblical figure. It's a bit like if some guy called Christopher tried to get Hindu's to call him Krishna.
pmaitra
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2009
- Messages
- 33,262
- Likes
- 19,594
gadeshi
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2013
- Messages
- 9,223
- Likes
- 6,636
Yeah, thus it is based on Mi-8 propulsion and support system.
| Thread starter | Similar threads | Forum | Replies | Date |
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Syria War Air Combat Videos | Military Multimedia | 2 | |
|
Ace Combat : The Greatest Air Combat Game ever made. | Members Corner | 77 | |
|
Combat Air Teaming System (CATS) | Indian Air Force | 137 | |
|
|
Modern BVR Air Combat - Part 3 The Future | Knowledge Repository | 0 |
