'India has more rich people than poor now'

[satyam]

If true, this would be a remarkable turnaround within just a decade. It started with just 13.8 million households described as high-income, or earning more than Rs 1.8 lakh per annum at 2001-02 prices. Meanwhile, 65.2 million households were classified as low-income or earning less than Rs 45,000 per year. The NCAER estimated that middle-income households, or those earning between Rs 45,000 and Rs 1.8 lakh per annum, rose sharply from 109.2 million to 140.7 million in the decade.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-people-than-poor-now/articleshow/6242324.cms

 

[Rage]

I will go further to say, that most 'poverty statistics' on India are deeply outdated and rely on past censuses.

For example, the oft-paraded notion that India has '40% of people living under the poverty line' is actually based on the 1991 census.

Most figures of malnourishment are also based delusively on India's most undernourished states- Madhya Pradesh, Bihar, Jharkhand and Orissa- and extrapolated to the rest of the country. I have first hand evidence of an economic NGO, that based their information for the entire country on 9 out of 10 polls conducted in theses states.

The levels of wealth-generation in our cities is enormous, even if people don't seem to be displaying their wealth in the most ostentatious fashion. You can see that by taking a look at the assets of the street hawker, the autorickshaw driver or even the beggar. Dharavi, which was Asia's largest slum before our beloved Orangi in Kirachi took over, generated, per a BBC report in 2008, $4.5 billion in production of leather wares, textiles, recyclables, factory output and services. How do you compete with a thing like that? And this is a fvcking slum for chrissakes.

There was also an article this week on a related-spinoff:

http://www.boiseweekly.com/boise/indias-super-rich-educators/Content?oid=1682409

 

[NSG_Blackcats]

I am not really amused by this piece of news. The matter of fact is we still have a lot of poverty. If you go to rural part of the states that are doing well (AP, Maharashtra etc.) you can see that. It is that we are only playing with statistics. The standard of living is still very low in India.

 

[Rage]

From my knowledge of the piss-poor counting methods of most int'l economic firms and agencies in India, I'd say the NCAER does a pretty good job. I'd stake my money on them any day of the week. That fact is evident in how the UN was forced to drop its AIDS figures recently for India by more than half, in line with the NFHS-3.

The fact being implied in the reports is, not that there are no poor people in India, it is that the number of rich households now exceeds the number of households classified 'low-income'. I think that is an accurate and fair suggestion.

Heck, even the United Nations claims that about 58.1 mln. out of the 132 million poor people in Asia lifted out of 'extreme poverty' this decade were from India, with the rest being largely from China.

Concern is warranted, we have a long way to go. But we should not be discounting our successes, when we see them.

P.S.: Rural Maharaashtra, despite still being plagued by farmer suicides, has some of the richest farmers you will ever see. Grass-roots irrigation schemes have truly changed the way farming is carried on in the interior parts of the state. I believe there was a National Geographic Article on it recently.

JAI HIND!

 

[badguy2000]

rage, it seems a hard job to persude your fellow indians to accept you idea....hahah.

 

[Ray]

Standard of living is like beauty.

It is all in the eye of the beholder.

There are communities who are flashy and so one is led to believe that they are rich.

There are communities, who are rich, but live a frugal way of existence.

Check the cuisine. Some communities have a whole lot of variety and some have a very frugal fare.

As far as poverty is concerned, it is in the interest of vote bank to play on the issue of poverty.

So poverty is a matter of perception.

I have a friend who is rich, but he prefers to go by bus or by taxi and does not own a car. He says that if public transportation is available, why waste money on buying a car, fuel, have a driver and run bills on maintenance? So, one who does not know him will think he is poor, more so since he wears shirts and pants bought from the footpath!

 

[Rage]

rage, it seems a hard job to persude your fellow indians to accept you idea....hahah.

Junior, obviously you ain't got a clue.

You have no idea how this country is run, how we do business, the size of its informal economy or the nature of its transactions. You have no idea of wealth creation in urban slums, of 'hidden savings among the poor, of the hawala system or asset-creation. You have no idea of how "international organizations" have revised, and then revised again, everything from India's poverty to its AIDS figures. And you don't want to learn.

Your crack-head comments about Indias "unpunctualness" and "discipline" remind me of the kind of naivèté Indians have about the general level of freedom of speech in China. Only, with you, it seems to be coming from the kind of hot flushes, menstruating women get, that go straight to the head.

How about we do this, eh sonny? How about, in three years from now, if these figures are revised you cut open a ripe piece of your heart, gift-wrap it in one of those dainty lil' boxes and mail it to me? At least then we can be sure that the dribblin'-drone don't talk no more non sense.

Now, how about I get you started off on the basics? Go to your local university, ask 'em to tell you what this thing called 'GDP' is, that you can't seem to wrap your head around, how it measures receipted market transactions, and how the size of an informal economy impacts it. While you're at it, you might want to take a good, long vacation from the job. You wouldn't want to transfer money from a local crook's book into your own account and then end up sleepin' with the fishes, now would you? Remember, comments you fart out of your butt-side won't be treated as excuses.

Request civil language notwithstanding the outraged emotions - Ray

 

[Iamanidiot]

Rage
I think it varies from region to region say Maharasthra ,the konkan strip is very rich.Can't speak about vidarbha.Similar in Andhra esp in the coastal belt the coastal belt and esp in West godavari and East godavari the labour costs have gone so high that to hire a labour per day to harvest paddy is ocsting around 450 bucks thats insane charge.The farmers there are slowly moving towards mechanization of agriculture.I think Bimaru states must improve Rage ,remaining other states are I think doin well

 

[Rage]

Rage
I think it varies from region to region say Maharasthra ,the konkan strip is very rich.Can't speak about vidarbha.Similar in Andhra esp in the coastal belt the coastal belt and esp in West godavari and East godavari the labour costs have gone so high that to hire a labour per day to harvest paddy is ocsting around 450 bucks thats insane charge.The farmers there are slowly moving towards mechanization of agriculture.I think Bimaru states must improve Rage ,remaining other states are I think doin well

'Course it varies, JP. We don't have a standard growth rate or standard rates of mechanisation everywhere.

The point is this: Apart from our traditional bread baskets, Punjab and Haryaana, mechanization of agriculture and husbandry has taken place and is taking place to very considerable extents in several parts of the country- the western states like Maharaashtra for sugar and Gujarat for milk-based industries, the southern states for cash crops, and the northern, central and eastern states for staples.

To give you an example, in the decade spanning 1991-2001, the number of tractors in use more than doubled, and the number of reapers has more than tripled 'tween 1994 and 2001 . You may not know this, but India is the second largest manufacturer of tractors today in the world. As of 2006, India was expected to contribute nearly 10% of the global farm equipment market, which was estimated to be about $66 billion.

The rise in labor wages is, itself, an incentive to mechanize. And the rise in labor wages in the coastal belt and the West and East Godavari has accrued because of income distribution patterns of the Green Revolution- which among others have contributed to almost universal irrigation on acreage across all farm size groups, high rates of allocation between tenure and adoption- indicating that owners have an advantage over tenants (which played out in the adoption of new inputs, in which tenants tended to lag), and the adoption of new capital by rich farmers, which caused poor farmers to either give up their holdings or work on the farms as tenants- under the new capital-infrastructure regime.

In Maharashtra, however- and particularly in Bid, Dhule and Shirdi, what I'm talking about is something entirely different- non-government organizations and private citizens taking the initiative to build dams, canals and simple tube or bore wells at breakneck speed. The phenomenon is widespread. And what has transpired is a near-total revolution of agriculture in the way it is conducted. The results have been better standards of living, daycare centres so that women, who were previously confined to the house, can now go to work and disposable incomes that have tripled in a year and have enabled them to buy mechanised equipment to put to use in agriculture. The 'pilot' scheme has been so successful that NGO's have been lobbying the government to take it to other states. But even so, the citizens seem to be taking the initiative- all on their own.

 

[Iamanidiot]

Rage
East-West godavari districts are a bit different you don't have large landholdings in that districtr average acreage is in an around 10-15 per family a rich family has around 40-50.A stinkingly rich family has in and around 100 acres.What is commendable about them is the the multiple ways they try to source income Rage.Every person has a coconut grove underneath the coconut grove you will be having cocoa-plantations(these two districts combinedly produce nearly 80% of indias cocoa) cocoa generates serious money along with coconut.Fpr every coconut tree they have a pepper plant entwining to it.To add to it Rage they are pioneers in nuresery plantations in india every orchid flower,heliconia you get in marriages is supplied by them each flow costs you 10-15 bucks.So this is the average make-up of a farmer family in these two districts.Add to this they do aquaculture near kolleru.

So this is the avg way a family lives Rage the avg income will range from 5-6 lakhs to 1-4 crores if you have a large farm with nursesary(40-50 acres)
.The avg assets range from 40-50 lakhs to 10-20 crores in rupees.Rage the intresting thing none of these guys pay income tax nor the current bill.Just look at the black economy of these two districts

 

[Rage]

Rage
East-West godavari districts are a bit different you don't have large landholdings in that districtr average acreage is in an around 10-15 per family a rich family has around 40-50.A stinkingly rich family has in and around 100 acres.What is commendable about them is the the multiple ways they try to source income Rage.Every person has a coconut grove underneath the coconut grove you will be having cocoa-plantations(these two districts combinedly produce nearly 80% of indias cocoa) cocoa generates serious money along with coconut.Fpr every coconut tree they have a pepper plant entwining to it.To add to it Rage they are pioneers in nuresery plantations in india every orchid flower,heliconia you get in marriages is supplied by them each flow costs you 10-15 bucks.So this is the average make-up of a farmer family in these two districts.Add to this they do aquaculture near kolleru.

So this is the avg way a family lives Rage the avg income will range from 5-6 lakhs to 1-4 crores if you have a large farm with nursesary(40-50 acres)
.The avg assets range from 40-50 lakhs to 10-20 crores in rupees.Rage the intresting thing none of these guys pay income tax nor the current bill.Just look at the black economy of these two districts

JP,

I said:

"[T]he rise in labor wages in the coastal belt and the West and East Godavari has accrued because of:

1) income distribution patterns of the Green Revolution- which among others have contributed to almost universal irrigation on acreage across all farm size groups

2) high rates of allocation between tenure and adoption- indicating that owners have an advantage over tenants (which played out in the adoption of new inputs, in which tenants tended to lag)

3) and the adoption of new capital by rich farmers, which caused poor farmers to either give up their holdings or work on the farms as tenants- under the new capital-infrastructure regime."

I don't know where you get "large landholdings" from? While the information your provided is interesting, it did distort my post.

For a validation of what's in my post, review "Income Distribution Effects of Green Revolution in India" by M. Prahladchar. The trend was first noticed in 1982, and has continued since.

 

[Param]

I wonder by how much the poverty levels in India will be reduced if, hypothetically speaking , the BIMARU states are removed.