AFSPA: The Armed Forces Special Powers Act

[Ray]

i think making kashmir a joint territory with pakistan is a good option. make kashmiris roam around in kashmir( both J&K and POK) with local govt dealing with every issue related to environment and municipality.
foreign policy of both India and pakistan should be changed to accommodate such jointly held territory. J&K will be shown in Indian map and PoK in pakistani map but this will be final thing. both currency can be used in the regions or currency exchanger should be there at every highway and rail stations for facilitating easy transaction. resources of this region as a whole will be 50% devoted to kashmiris and rest for the respective nations.

also the thought of gaining some sort of independence from any of the nation or going solo with any one nation should be constitutionally banned.

That may not be appealing to the Kashmiris.

What then?

 

[Ray]

Why not LC a defacto boundary with free flow of population with check as between Nepal and India?

But the main issue of this thread is the AFSPA.

Omar wants it abolished and so to many pinkos and human rights chaps.

What should be done about that?

 

[agentperry]

That may not be appealing to the Kashmiris.

What then?

they may continue to end in mass grave or serve under pakistani flag.

the above things are influenced by the 12 point agreement that mush and mms was about to sign but mush ousting jeopardized peace effort for long time to come.

 

[ace009]

i think making kashmir a joint territory with pakistan is a good option. make kashmiris roam around in kashmir( both J&K and POK) with local govt dealing with every issue related to environment and municipality.
foreign policy of both India and pakistan should be changed to accommodate such jointly held territory. J&K will be shown in Indian map and PoK in pakistani map but this will be final thing. both currency can be used in the regions or currency exchanger should be there at every highway and rail stations for facilitating easy transaction. resources of this region as a whole will be 50% devoted to kashmiris and rest for the respective nations.

also the thought of gaining some sort of independence from any of the nation or going solo with any one nation should be constitutionally banned.

This will work if both the nations have rational leaders and military. But what will happen is that PA and ISI will get freer access to Indian side and will cause more problems everytime Pakistan economy or development issues flare up. Fueling a conflict with India has been their mainstay in power and this will make it easier for them. Also the stark difference between J&K (and Indian) economy compared to PoK economy will bring in both honest refugees as well as criminal elements. Containing them then will become another flashpoint between the two nations.

India should agree to an international border from LAC and put in a easy short term visa (for visiting and trading) for PoK people. A visa can be monitored and regulated much better than free passes.

 

[agentperry]

This will work if both the nations have rational leaders and military. But what will happen is that PA and ISI will get freer access to Indian side and will cause more problems everytime Pakistan economy or development issues flare up. Fueling a conflict with India has been their mainstay in power and this will make it easier for them. Also the stark difference between J&K (and Indian) economy compared to PoK economy will bring in both honest refugees as well as criminal elements. Containing them then will become another flashpoint between the two nations.

India should agree to an international border from LAC and put in a easy short term visa (for visiting and trading) for PoK people. A visa can be monitored and regulated much better than free passes.

when you are talking about the isi and PA fussing you should remember that its because of kashmir agenda. when kashmir is shared like a covalent bond between both then attacking us is useless and will lead to pakistan under scrutiny. having JK as common whore err territory will wipe out the need for such thing also the agenda will be signed off with no attempt from any side to seek additional territory. moreover your allegation also indicates you assumption of superweak intel agencies.

moreover the kashmiris crossing over to indian side or to pak side will be regulated thru visas( dual citizenship type of usa model) but when they try to cross to india mainland or pakistan mainland then they need to have hard-ruled visa authorization.

isi and pa will be useless after this agreement.

 

[S.A.T.A]

Omar Abdullah's call for withdrawing the AFSPA from parts of the valley and the instant support the call has garnered from the separatist factions tells us the real political motivation behind this move.Since the withdrawal of the AFSPA would lead to automatic withdrawal of the armed forces from these regions,something Geelani and his band of hired arsonist were hoping to bring about last year around,this move is probably one the slew of promises Omar allegedly unilaterally made to Geelani to keep his boys for fire off the streets and the CM is so eager to deliver.

The situation in the valley does not warrant a withdrawal of armed forces or constitutional provisions that enable them to carry out their duties effectively.We should not encourage Omar's blatant political chicanery at the cost of our national interest.

 

[Ray]

He has only declared withdrawal in the high priority VIP areas of Srinagar and Badgam.

Other areas are calm as it is!

All show, no go!

 

[Ray]

Interestingly, no one has answered if the AFSPA should be withdrawn and if so why and if that is done, then how do we control terrorism. Check Post 1 and more.

I put this thread on show since a poster very cutely stated it is draconian (can't wade through) and should be withdrawn. I don't see his contribution here!

Such chaps are the Digvijay Singh variety who are exhibitionists and no more!

 

[Ray]

And interestingly all are talking about everything but whether AFSPA is draconian and if so, why?

And indeed if it is draconian, what is the via media?

What does it tell?

Put your money where your mouth is!

 

[agentperry]

@RAY: why you hate terrorist because they are committed to take away your life at will, at the directions of their handlers in pakistan. because of this you hate pakistanis and probably muslims too.
lashmiris hate india and indians because when ever they go out, every road they cross, they need to show ID, get bruised by security men and sometimes beaten up( not to forget extra judicial killing). this is too much for a common man who hasnt undergone a military surviving course/training.

today you wont be liking afspa and all the associated set up in the city you live. they are already having it for last 2 decades.

 

[A.V.]

Armed Forces special powers act VS Kashmir government

AFSPA debate: 'Issue under MHA's purview'

27 Oct 2011, 1004 hrs IST, AGENCIES

Amid reports that the Army is opposed to withdrawal of controversial AFSPA from some areas of Jammu and Kashmir, Army Chief General V K Singh on Thursday (October 27) said the issue is under the purview of the Home Ministry. He said the Army has already given its inputs on the issue. "This (Armed Forces Special Powers Act) is within the purview of the Ministry of Home Affairs. They are debating this and we have given our inputs. I would not like to say anything more," he told reporters on the sidelines of Infantry Day celebrations in New Delhi. Asked about NC leader Mustafa Kamal's remarks that the October 25 grenade blasts in Srinagar were orchestrated by the Army, Singh said, "Whosoever has given that comment, I think that does not deserve the courtesy of any remark from me". Army has been advocating for continuing the Act on the grounds that it needed to deal with terrorism in the state. Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah had yesterday said that the withdrawal of the Act from certain areas of the state was in no way an effort to undermine the role of the Army. "The army is essentially playing a major role in anti-militancy operations in Jammu and Kashmir", he had said. "Even the process of removal of AFSPA from certain areas of Jammu and Kashmir is being done in close consultation with the Army and other central paramilitary forces and their inputs and security concerns will be evaluated and considered while removing the footprint of AFSPA from certain parts of the state," he had said. The Chief Minister had said that an attempt is being made to create an impression that the state government and the Army are working on divergent paths, which is not correct. Omar had said that it is nobodys case to demonize the Army as the Army has proved time and again that it is a disciplined force which is governed by certain standard operating procedures. AFSPA debate: 'Issue under MHA's purview'- TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos

 

[A.V.]

Removal of AFSPA not an effort to undermine the Army: Omar

26 Oct 2011, 1826 hrs IST, AGENCIES

Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah today (October 26) said withdrawal of the Armed Forces pecial Power Act (AFSPA) from certain areas of the state was in no way an effort to undermine the role of the Army. "The army is essentially playing a major role in anti-militancy operations in Jammu and Kashmir", Omar said in a statement . "Even the process of removal of AFSPA from certain areas of Jammu and Kashmir state is being done in close consultation with the Army and other central paramilitary forces and their inputs and security concerns will be evaluated and considered while removing the footprint of AFSPA from certain parts of the state," he said. The Chief Minister said an attempt is being made to create an impression that the state government and the Army are working on divergent paths, which is not correct. Omar said the state had a peaceful summer for which the credit first goes to the people of the state and then the state administration, police, central para-military forces and the Army who worked jointly to ensure that all steps are taken in coordination with each other to ensure peace in the state. Omar said it is nobodys case to demonize the Army as the Army has proved time and again that it is a disciplined force which is governed by certain standard operating procedures and particularly in the last one year the Army has gone close to the people of the state because of the goodwill created by them among the people of the state. The Chief Minister said a statement from his senior party colleague, which has been clarified as mis-reported and mis-represented, has nothing to do with the state governments opinion as well as relationship with the Army. After multiple attacks in Kashmir Valley, ruling National Conference(NC) leader Mustafa Kamal had on Tuesday tonight created a controversy alleging the Army may have had a hand but later sought to defuse the row saying he has not accused any security agency of involvement. He said the state government enjoyed an excellent working relationship with the Army which has always responded in a positive manner to the suggestions of the state government so far as the welfare and the security of the people of the state is concerned. Omar said he had promised to the people of the state that if they give him peace his government will remove the footprint of certain laws from the peaceful parts of the state and he stands by that commitment of his to the people of the state and the process of due diligence in the matter and consultation thereof are at an advanced stage. He expressed the hope that the people of the state will understand the security concerns of the different arms of the government and cooperate with the government to ensure that the removal of AFSPA becomes a permanent feature and not allow a situation to arise in the state where such laws have either to be retained or re-imposed.

 

[mayfair]

Getting rid of AFSPA will be a regressive step.

Kashmir valleywaalas should introspect why the act was necessary in the first place. Bloody wankers.

 

[Iamanidiot]

Getting rid of AFSPA will be a regressive step.

Kashmir valleywaalas should introspect why the act was necessary in the first place. Bloody wankers.

+++1
I will also add big MOFO's

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Iamanidiot]

Omar Abdullah the master of Razdan is trying to divert attention from his own wrongdoings by using AFSPA as a curtain

 

[pankaj nema]

Let us do a little bit of simulation exercise

If Srinagar and Badgam become free from AFSPA then all terrorists will be attracted to these places

And PDP can easily organise stone pelter mobs any time and can easily bring one lakh people on the roads

SO army will be left JUST as a silent spectator and the situation will go out of control

Will Omar resign or reimpose AFSPA

 

[Ray]

@RAY: why you hate terrorist because they are committed to take away your life at will, at the directions of their handlers in pakistan. because of this you hate pakistanis and probably muslims too.
lashmiris hate india and indians because when ever they go out, every road they cross, they need to show ID, get bruised by security men and sometimes beaten up( not to forget extra judicial killing). this is too much for a common man who hasnt undergone a military surviving course/training.

today you wont be liking afspa and all the associated set up in the city you live. they are already having it for last 2 decades.

I am no too sure that Kashmiris hate Indians.

I am also surprised to know that at every crossroads, there is an ID check. I presume you are meaning Srinagar. Even there, it is where the places are sensitive and is not a rule. It is done at random, if done at all.

I do not hate Pakistanis. And nor do I hate Muslim. In fact, on this very forum, you will find posts where I have batted for Muslims. These are your opinions formed to just give credence to your points of view that you wish to put forward.

If I may add, my association with Kashmir starts from my childhood and a major part of my life I have spent there and that too in areas remote and what one would term as 'dangerous'.

I may mention that I have been posted in all parts of Kashmir and so I daresay I know something about Kashmir beyond Srinagar and the tourist haunts. I have seen Kashmir at peace, Kashmir when Butt was hanged, Kashmir during the war and Kashmir in the thick of insurgency. Therefore, my experience in Kashmir is not just a case of one off!

Yes, being checked for ID or frisked is very irritating. It happens not only in Kashmir, but every time one enters sensitive areas, malls, shops, offices, airports and so on.

Security does not come cheap nor does it pamper the comfort zones.

On the issue of AFSPA, I say that yes please remove it. But when the chips are down again, don't ask the Army to set right a situation gone more rotten than now because it would be a shame to lose more lives, both the Army's and the civilians, to make the situation come back to what it has been made to be now, with great sacrifices already.

The Army would be the first ones delighted if it is removed for it will not require all to be 24x7x365 on the Alert. It will allow a decent life that does not require to be ready to move out at odd hours, maybe sometimes, without food, hunting for the illusive insurgent in weather that is foul and clammy, moving up and down treacherous mountains and vales! The Army would then only be in their barracks getting a deserved rest!

 

[Ray]

This is the same ploy adopted as is being done to attack Anna's coalition.

Obfuscate and divert attention from the chaos created.

Omar is up a gum tree over the death of his party chap who is said to be the extortionist for which Omar is blamed.

Otherwise, I find him a jolly good fellow.

I like his father. Outspoken bloke!

 

[agentperry]

Let us do a little bit of simulation exercise

If Srinagar and Badgam become free from AFSPA then all terrorists will be attracted to these places

And PDP can easily organise stone pelter mobs any time and can easily bring one lakh people on the roads

SO army will be left JUST as a silent spectator and the situation will go out of control

Will Omar resign or reimpose AFSPA

here you are making mistake sir, pdp dont organize stone pelting protests for terror attacks, for them these are sacrifices in the name of freedom. they only mourn the death of terrorists and nothing else.