AFSPA: The Armed Forces Special Powers Act

Should AFSPA be repealed?

  • Yes

    Votes: 14 15.7%
  • No

    Votes: 47 52.8%
  • Dilute AFSPA provisions

    Votes: 5 5.6%
  • More flexible system according to situation

    Votes: 23 25.8%

  • Total voters
    89

Sabir

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if you are wondering what the Arm forces act means here is the act.

Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act, 1958

after going through the act, IMHO it is necessity to have such laws in force in trouble areas.
Sayar...you know, in some Japanese martial arts they teach to use the force of the opponent against him. By their skill they can bring down stronger and heaviour opponent on the mat.

If you are given all the power does not mean nobody knows how to counter it or to use your force against you. Please carefully evaluate what is going on in the valley.

I) Recent ploy of the separatists are to generate more and more man-power inside the valley because India is strengthening its security system everyday to cut down the supply from Pakistan. Until and unless the valley itself is made a breeding ground the separatist movement can not sustain.

II) They do not need ordinary man for their campaign but man with heart full of hatred against India. Now where you can get better person other than those who have lost their close ones by Indian security force.

III) The separatist leaders do not have any sympathy to the people killed recently in the valley recently. They know the kins of the diseased will fill up the shortage of fighters in the valley. So their primary aim to get more and more people get killed by security force.

IV)The conspiracy of hiring people to throw stones is a brilliant strategy from their part. They engaged more people in it and take the situation (profiting from the inexperience of the security force in handling mob) such a state that some people get killed eventually. Believe me Kolkata police in Salt-lake stadium during East-Bengal -Mohan Bagan match have better experience of handling mob than our security force in the valley. Please remember, a commando can be effective in gun battle with militants armed to teeth, but tackling angry mob without any casualty is totally different thing. You need to have specific skill, gadget and experience for that.
 
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Sabir

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Sabir,

The opposition against the AFSPA is based on the propaganda generated by Pakistani proxies and fifth columnist jhollawallas. For instance, In J&K the protests are taking place only in urban areas and mainly in downtown Srinagar. There is *NO* army deployed in these regions. So what difference is it going to make if we dilute/repeal the act ? The majority of people arrested are under Public Safety Act by J&K state police and CRPF troops which is directly under the control of State government.
This debate is worth watching
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I agree with you. I just tried to ask whether AFSPA is sufficient to tackle the new ploy of the separatists.
 

Phenom

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AFSPA could be a draconian act and may be it needs to be revised, but not now and definitely not in Kashmir. Iron sharmila has been on a hunger strike for a decade against AFSPA and the GoI has completely ignored her and her protest. But now if the GoI amends AFSPA just because Kashmiri youths started to throw petrol bombs and burn buildings, then the Indian nation would look stupid in the eyes of the world and more importantly in the eyes of fellow Indians. People would start to think that the govt understands only one language and that is the language of force and violence.
 

Sabir

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4. Special powers of the armed forces.

Any commissioned officer, warrant officer, non-commissioned officer or any other person of equivalent rank in the armed forces may, in a disturbed area,-

(a) if he is of opinion that it is necessary so to do for the maintenance of public order, after giving such due warning as he may consider necessary fire upon or otherwise use force, even to the causing of death, against any person who is acting in contravention of any law or order for the time being in force in the disturbed area prohibiting the assembly of five or more persons or the carrying of weapons or of things capable of being used as weapons or of fire-arms, ammunition or explosive substances;


(b) if he is of opinion that it is necessary so to do, destroy any arms dump, prepared or fortified position or shelter from which armed attacks are made or are likely to be made or are attempted to be made, or any structure used as training camp for armed volunteers or utilised as a hide-out by armed gangs or absconders wanted for any offence;

(c) arrest, without warrant, any person who has committed a cognizable offence or against whom a reasonable suspicion exists that he has committed or is about to commit a cognizable offence and may use such force as may be necessary to effect the arrest;

(d) enter and search without warrant any premises to make any such arrest as aforesaid or to recover any person believed to be wrongfully restrained or confined or any property reasonably suspected to, be stolen property or any arms, ammunition or explosive substances believed to be unlawfully kept in such premises, and may for that purpose use such force as may be necessary.

5. Arrested persons to be made over to the police.

Any person arrested and taken into custody under this Act shall be made over to the, officer in charge of the nearest police station with the least possible delay, together with a report. of the circumstances occasioning the arrest.

6. Protection to persons acting under Act.

No prosecution, suit or other legal proceeding shall be instituted, except with the previous sanction of the Central Government, against any person in respect of anything done or purported to be done in exercise of the powers conferred by this Act


7. Repeal and Saving
[Repealed by Amending and Repealing Act 1960 (58 of 1960) First Schedule Sec. 2 ( 26-12-1960)]


Clause a seems to be more vulnerable to be mishap. Unfortunately, there is not much scope of modification as security persons need some protection too especially in areas where they regularly engage with armed militants. For an example, if security personnel suspects a couple of young men to be militants say suicide bomber approaching target or militants with guns hidden under there cloths. (If guns can be seen, there wont be much debate on it) If they are challenged, they can trigger the bomb or fire up on the security personnel. So, it is necessary to neutralize them without any delay. There can not be wasting time for identification.

Again, there is the possibility, that innocent people can be shot down in confusion. Such incidents happened earlier several times. But here authority can do only one thing- educating the mass about this special power of armed force suggesting what they should do if caught in such situation. They have to erect bill boards all over the areas suggesting 'DOs' and 'DONOTs' in particular situations. Example.......remain straight with both hands above head....do not argue....till you get a 'move on' instruction...etc

There is much to do with the infrastructure rather than the words in the act. I do not they do not use good cameras extensively to capture the perpetrators. They are instances when Police sought help from media for photographs or videos. If Police have the technology they can easily pick up the real culprits raiding at night without much mishap. Proofs such as photographs, videos etc should be considered credible evidence in these cases. It will be helpful for taking action against those paid stone pelters.

Youths caught first time for violence like stone pelting, damaging government properties(of course I am not talking about armed militants) have to undergo counselling. Professional help must be sought for counselling of these young men who are brainwashed by the separatists. Once proven incorrigible they must be dealt appropriately.

Bring in sophisticated instruments to control mobs to avoid casualties. If tear gas proved inactive, plastic bullet , pepper spray, water canon (with dye to mark the perpetrators). Even mounted police is a good option. It is said a police man with a single horse can disperse few thousands people. (A well known and proven tactic in Kolkata Maidan during football session. )

There should be modification in clause 6. A special bench consisting of at least one retired judge should be set up to wherever AFSPA imposed to listen to grievances and receive complains. The road to justice must not be very long. This bench should decide promptly whether investigation can be initiated against any security personnel. Complains may stream in. There is nothing to worry. If people have the faith on the redress provided by the Government, that will be a greater victory against the ploy of the separatists.
 

sesha_maruthi27

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NO, if wedo so it will be like a ring master having nothing in his hands and trying to control hundreds of lions inside a cage.:angry_6::emot0:
 

Yusuf

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No the act should stay. What should go is the incentive to show the numbers killed which may lead to fake encounters and also cases like the "ketchup colonel". Without the act the Army will have to fight with its arms tied behind its back. The IA has done a great job in getting most kashmiris to understand what they are doing and also launched programs to present the fair side of the IA. We should continue to do that. Rest is all propaganda by separatists here, and sadly our own stupid media.
 

neo29

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With cross border terrorism in Kashmir for decades, it makes army mandatory to check who ever they feel are suspicious. Withdrawing the AFSPA will only result in increased insurgency in Kashmir. Already the "stone throwing clan" are making a menace and mockery of the security forces. Why do we even think of such motives which will just loosen grip and will benefit separatists and militants ????

Hurriyat and Stone throwers are not the representative of Kashmir. A meeting must be called in on how to take severe action against separatists and rioters rather curbing powers of the security forces.
 

sayareakd

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Guys, please understand that security forces cannot work with there hands tied down and with fear of inquire into every incident. On the the other hand terrorists want the security forces to have there hands tied down and they also want regular laws in stead of the special act, as with regular laws it is very difficult to prosecute terrorists.

With regard to misuse of the act, i would say checks and balances are there in the system, we have National Human Rights Commission, free and Independent Media, Impartial Judiciary and last but not least Supreme Court of India where even a citizen can take on GOI even by sending letter to the CJI. Along with this all the forces have there own rules of inquiry to deal with the situations of abuse of the power. Security forces do not have any personal animosity with anyone they are send to put situation under control, however there are incidents in pasts where the security force have done some wrong, then entire battalion has been withdrawn from the area and action has been taken against the guilty persons.
 

ejazr

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I think partial withdrawal where army is not involved like urban areas does make sense.

AS some one mentioned, majority of the protest are the urban areas. The army is not present there but the police and CRPF is. So why not withdraw it from urban districts. It wont affect the Army's role in the border and rural areas where it is needed. But it will give an important positve media coverage and pacifcation point to the people. This is important for the people as well because in Kashmir as in the NE, AFSPA is not see in the positive light because HR violations have not been prosecuted. Remeber the rule number of COIN strategy. The population must be on your side. This should be the paramount rule. You can't fight militants if the population is not on your side. If the statistics show that more civilians are killed by govt. forces rather than by militants something is really wrong in the population centric strtegy.


The other things that has to be done is to keep hitting and driving the point that the army is NOT involved in crowd control duties. Both in the local and international media. And CRPF and police should be trained and reminded to be retrained into a population centric force. This includes things like being polite, not throwing stones or using slingshots, not smashing windows e.t.c. Yes things are tense and violent but these things decide your COIN sucess and failure.

But one thing is for sure, Delhi has been utterly hopeless in dealing with the situation. The all party delegation is being sent tommorow, this should have been done three months back. Everyone keeps talking about the "cycle of violence" but nothing is being done to stop it. The folly is to expect that the sepratists will STOP the cycle of violence and THEN the govt. can come up with CBMs. The sepratists thrive in an evironment where there IS a cycle of violence. It is in the best interest of the govt. to get rid of the cycle. This simple fact seems tonot have hit the GoI yet.
 
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Ray

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I think partial withdrawal where army is not involved like urban areas does make sense.
That would mean that it is accepted that non Army SF are wild west cowboys and the Govt has no faith in them.

What is important is not taking away the law, but make the commanders accountable so that they take a very careful considered view before ordering any action and the DM made available so that he hands over the power to the CRPF once the Kashmir Police finds it beyond their control.

If things go beyond the control of tear gas, lathi charge, rubber bullets, then what is the answer to stop a mob bent on destruction and arson.

Any takers for an answer?
 

ejazr

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That would mean that it is accepted that non Army SF are wild west cowboys and the Govt has no faith in them.
The way the withdrawal is presented is on the govt. Like I mentioned it should be withdrawn only in theurban areas where there is currently no army deployment in any case. The past five months its been the police and CRPF so it does not connect with the Army.
Besides, AFSPA is a temporary power, it was applied in the 1990s when the militancy was at its peak. Now that militancy has waned it should be logically removed. If it comes back up then apply it again. It should be a dynamic process. Not a static process.

What is important is not taking away the law, but make the commanders accountable so that they take a very careful considered view before ordering any action and the DM made available so that he hands over the power to the CRPF once the Kashmir Police finds it beyond their control.

If things go beyond the control of tear gas, lathi charge, rubber bullets, then what is the answer to stop a mob bent on destruction and arson.

Any takers for an answer?
The move is still doing that and the answers has been mostly protestors being shot at and increasing the next the size of mobs in response. For example, Tangmarg in Budgam district was peaceful (also happens to be shia majority. Poonch and Rajouri areas were also peaceful despite being muslim majority. But the protestors being shot has not for the first time moved the violence into muslim areas of Jammu. The training and revisiting of police and CRPF tactics is much more important than AFSPA ofcourse.

But evntually as the violence levels come down AFSPA has to be removed saying militancy has come down. Not by saying army is the problem. The sepratists will keep harping their own agenda but the govt. has to enforce the perception that the reason AFSPA was removed was because militancy has come down.
 

Tshering22

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The way the withdrawal is presented is on the govt. Like I mentioned it should be withdrawn only in theurban areas where there is currently no army deployment in any case. The past five months its been the police and CRPF so it does not connect with the Army.
Besides, AFSPA is a temporary power, it was applied in the 1990s when the militancy was at its peak. Now that militancy has waned it should be logically removed. If it comes back up then apply it again. It should be a dynamic process. Not a static process.



The move is still doing that and the answers has been mostly protestors being shot at and increasing the next the size of mobs in response. For example, Tangmarg in Budgam district was peaceful (also happens to be shia majority. Poonch and Rajouri areas were also peaceful despite being muslim majority. But the protestors being shot has not for the first time moved the violence into muslim areas of Jammu. The training and revisiting of police and CRPF tactics is much more important than AFSPA ofcourse.

But evntually as the violence levels come down AFSPA has to be removed saying militancy has come down. Not by saying army is the problem. The sepratists will keep harping their own agenda but the govt. has to enforce the perception that the reason AFSPA was removed was because militancy has come down.

No bro. Things have been very bad lately and even though terrorists are a bit lesser than what they used to be, the bloody separatists and their supporters are really violent. Removing AFSPA will only weaken Indian Army there and that is the last thing we need to do at the moment. If we dilute or repeal AFSPA, we will be simply playing into the hands of jihadis and their separatist backers both living within Indian soil as well as in places like UK, USA etc where wealthy Pakistanis and Kashmiri radicals fund the cause from.

AFSPA HAS TO STAY if Kashmir has to remain with India. Remember: we should not give a jackhorse about the separatists and if need be even attack and kill them; IT IS THE LAND THAT WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT RIGHT NOW. We've shown enough leniency with separatists and those fundamentalists deserve nothing short of bullets and bombs right now more than ever.
 

Sabir

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Nobody is bringing in the N-E states in the discussion..
 
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Singh

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Just a friendly reminder.


The armed forces are not Police forces, they don't know how to police. The armed forces are called only when the situation is beyond the civil administration, and they are expected to do only one thing ie establish the authority of the state. In such a scenario, as is the worldwide precedent, all HRs & FRs and established SOPs need to get tossed out the window to allow army to do their job. The only way, Army insists, this can be done is by enforcing a law which protects the armed forces. This law is AFSPA and it only covers the Indian Army not the CRPF not the Police and not the BSF. So if you are bringing in the army, you have to give them cover under AFSPA.


Now the Army is not present in the Valley where the protests are occurring. The Valley's security and Policing are done by the Paramilitary and the Police Forces. Due to the extreme security situation in the Kashmir Valley even the Police and Paramilitary to need a law to allow them greater powers to maintain peace, law and order. The law which covers the Paramilitary and Police in Jammu and Kashmir is the JKDAA.

---
 

bhogta

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I don't know the full aspect of AFSPA. Even if its needed to be change then not now or people think we can be forced to do thing. We can change some rules if at all required, quietly and slowly. Because if we think Kashmir is ours then off course that area people also be ours and its our duty to give them a good environment.
 

sayareakd

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if one state is successful in bring down the AFSPA then demand (and situation which is witness in kashmir) from others will follow and we end up loosing more.

GOI should apply its mind to what chief of defence staff has said and act accordingly as the Army is the last and only hope for the trouble area.
 

sayareakd

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BTW what if we give in to the demand to withdraw AFSPA, then next demand will be to join pakistan and china ???
 

Sabir

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The discussion is not about removing AFSPA on demand of the separatist but evaluation of effectiveness of AFSPA regarding changing ploys of the separatists- if needed tougher provisions can be added to. However, AFSPA is there in N-E for half a century I think. In a democracy everyone has to be responsible. The performance of Armed Force too needed to be evaluated regarding the improvement (if any) law and order situation in N-E in last 50 years.
 

Ray

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The way the withdrawal is presented is on the govt. Like I mentioned it should be withdrawn only in theurban areas where there is currently no army deployment in any case. The past five months its been the police and CRPF so it does not connect with the Army.
Besides, AFSPA is a temporary power, it was applied in the 1990s when the militancy was at its peak. Now that militancy has waned it should be logically removed. If it comes back up then apply it again. It should be a dynamic process. Not a static process.



The move is still doing that and the answers has been mostly protestors being shot at and increasing the next the size of mobs in response. For example, Tangmarg in Budgam district was peaceful (also happens to be shia majority. Poonch and Rajouri areas were also peaceful despite being muslim majority. But the protestors being shot has not for the first time moved the violence into muslim areas of Jammu. The training and revisiting of police and CRPF tactics is much more important than AFSPA ofcourse.

But evntually as the violence levels come down AFSPA has to be removed saying militancy has come down. Not by saying army is the problem. The sepratists will keep harping their own agenda but the govt. has to enforce the perception that the reason AFSPA was removed was because militancy has come down.
I appreciate your sentiments and if I did not have the experience of operating in J&K, I may have held the same opinions.

I would like to state that be it the Army or the paramilitary forces, the task they are doing is the same, when they are called out to quell disturbances or enforce the writ of the State. It is also important to note that they do so, not on their own, but when ordered out by the Government, which has taken a considered view and are aware of the consequences.

The AFSPA has two interesting aspects:

1. Allows detention but it also states that the person held has to be handed over to the earliest. The issue is what is 'earliest'? AFSPA is not J&K centric. In J&K and in the NE, there are remote areas and one has to move on foot and it may take days to come to the Police Station to hand over the terrorist.

When a terrorist is apprehended, there has to be some interrogation by trained people so that vital information that could have immediate disastrous effect is known and action taken to prevent it.

Can this time be quantified?

2. Search without warrant. If one awaits a warrant, then the terrorists not apprehended can do their dastardly acts since no interrogation can take place to glean information of immediate value.

The mobs cannot be set loose in rural area since it is not possible to 'hire a mob' which is what Geelani does. And in rural areas, there are neither TV reporters nor anything worthwhile to destroy or burn! Therefore, the terrorists, who want high profile acts, can do so in urban areas and that too in large towns alone.

Lastly, I don't take it as an Army centric issue. It is applicable for all SF who are to restore the writ of the State.

AFSPA may have been imposed temporarily. Has the militancy abated? It is now a proxy war where Geelani and cahoots are the proxy of the proxy. Therefore, should the Govt allow the proxies to take over the acts of the terrorists, who are themselves the proxy of Pakistan and the ISI?

One thing that should be borne in mind is that Kashmir is open to all, international and domestic. Ask Geelani, who is so vociferous about Kashmir being in siege, would he be able to raise Cain in POK or Northern Areas? In fact, the Northern Area is closed to all! What has this man to say about that when he criticises India and claims that there is no democracy in India. The very fact that he can air his jaundiced views is an indication that India is too tolerant and her democracy is vibrant. An unelected oaf that he is, he claims he is the representative of the people of J&K. Megalomania at its zenith!

Protesters have been shot. That is one sided view. What has the protestors been at? Any news reporter mentioning that? No. It is not man bites dog! Areas beyond the Valley may have been peaceful, but have you wondered how come it has suddenly got active? Look deep. There are good reasons to believe that Pakistan and ISI, having come under the scanner and exposed with the US papers being exposed and their shenanigans exposed had to turn the heat on India. Therefore, this sudden upsurge with paid agents like the Mirwaiz and Geelani. Now, if there is a rumour of the Koran being burnt in the US, what can the Omar govt or MMS do? Attack the US? So why take it out on them? Look deep.
 

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