Afghan president asks why allies won't hit Pakistan

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by 7thcow, Jul 29, 2010.

  1. 7thcow

    7thcow Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2010
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    0
    KABUL (Reuters) - Afghan President Hamid Karzai said on Thursday that Western allies had the ability to strike at Taliban bases in Pakistan, but questioned their willingness to do so.[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    More...
     
  2.  
  3. NewMember

    NewMember Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    i cant understand why the allies are soft with pakistan? they know they are supporting the taliban then why on earth they dont do anythig decisive against them?
     
  4. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    12,038
    Likes Received:
    715
    Arent' they already hitting using predators in nwfp????
     
  5. NewMember

    NewMember Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    the predators are used to hit the TTP/al qaeda, i was refereing to Pakistan.
     
  6. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    12,038
    Likes Received:
    715
    Asking to hit GHQ in pindia is like asking ISAF to hit karzai in kabul palace
     
  7. NewMember

    NewMember Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    what do you mean by Pindia and GHQ? and why should i isaf hit karzai palace?

    secondly, i never said that pakistani gov and cities be bombarded. they need to be pressurized, stop the money on them, put political/economic pressure etc to stop them support the terrorists.
     
  8. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    12,038
    Likes Received:
    715
    Pakistan matters more to usa's geopolitics than afghanistan.It doesnt matter to usa if afghanistan goes to dumps but for usa pakistan has to be saved at any cost.
     
  9. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,272
    Likes Received:
    11,275
    Location:
    BANGalore
    Lol Welcome to the world of hypocrites. US wont do it because of current realities there.
     
  10. NewMember

    NewMember Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    pakistan matters only because of the war in afghanistan, if there is no war in afghanisan and there is peace, the americans wont have to give money to pakistan and having all those headache.
     
  11. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,272
    Likes Received:
    11,275
    Location:
    BANGalore
    That is the reason why Pakistan continues to play the double game. Keep Astan boiling so that Pakistan can milk the US both with money and weapons as it is getting now.
     
  12. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    12,038
    Likes Received:
    715
    you accept it or not american foreign policy considers afghanistan as pakistan's sphere of influence.Even if there is peace in afghanistan pakistan will get its aid from usa.For first 30 yrs till ussr's forces invaded afghanistan it was peaceful and during those 3 decades of 1950,1960,1970 pakistan was regularly getting usa aid.Only thing in 1980 happened is that aid increased mainfolds due to afghan war.Its no afghanistan due to which usa keep propping up pakistan,its coz usa sees potential rivals in the region against its superpower-dom that pakistan is willing rent boy against those emerging powers.be it ussr,russia,china or iran.
     
  13. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    12,038
    Likes Received:
    715
  14. NewMember

    NewMember Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    exactly, that is why i say to presurize them to give up their wrong policies, these policies have made people of afghanistan very badly against pakistan.
     
  15. Illusive

    Illusive Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    2,335
    Likes Received:
    1,418
    Pakistan will keep on playing it until India takes a stern action against it , US gives Pakistan aid so that India can take their help in building their defence , so the aid they give to Pakistan is nullified by the money they receive from the Indian pockets , US uses pakistan to contain India and India to contain China. The US are playing a big game but not a smart one.
     
  16. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2009
    Messages:
    24,272
    Likes Received:
    11,275
    Location:
    BANGalore
    NewMember, i think you will have to read through the number of threads that exists on AfPak that will give you answers to a lot of your questions.
     
  17. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    12,038
    Likes Received:
    715
    Look at this way:::
    Pakistan learnt the misuse of jehad and Islamists in the company of usa during 1980s to achieve geopolitical gains.Thats another matter pakistan was never successful at it like usa.Now usa who lost control of these groups to pakistan after red army's defeat now want to take control of these group from through pakistan army.So it doesnt matter to usa if there are jehadi groups attacking other countries what it wants is that those groups who are attacking usa's interests be eliminated or controlled.For that its bribing pakistan through arms and aid.USA is also fighting only those gropus in afghanistan its like same as pakistan is only fighting TTP which is imical to pak army's interests. it has not touched groups of haqqanis/LeT/Queta shura.What usa wants is that pakistan control these groups attacking it and so that in future it can use the same groups through pakistan in the new great game.
     
  18. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2009
    Messages:
    12,038
    Likes Received:
    715
  19. hit&run

    hit&run Elite Member Elite Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    4,667
    Pakistan still has immunity to double play. India must wait and watch for the day when Pakistan will ran out from the same. Otherwise there is no use for outcrying and asking west to punish Pakistan. As they say Intelligent think logistics. Logistics are in Pakistan's favour until unless Afghanistan will not become self reliance militarily etc. From the day one of Pakistan's formation they are punishing Afghanistan (first) for not recognising them as a state then for Duran line. Sometimes i feel like admiring Pakistan for adopting such (saanp bhee maar jayee or lathee bhee na tute) strategy by playing Islamic card for deception and utilizing Afghan misfortunes (Russian Invasion, WOT) for its own strategic interests (not to counter Indian presence but Duran line, backyard possession, Islamic experiments on Afghan guinea pigs, terrorists on rent for Infiltration in India) . There are still numerous Afghan due to there long stay in Pakistan vowing for there ties with them. But deep inside in the Pakistani community and policy makers they do not think AF as a nation but a backyard and still a potential rival.

    What an Irony..Pakistan is claiming that they are helping Afghans (with US Aided) bread and butter but the truth is that Pakistan has comprehensive exploited them. Furthermore i am amazed with Afghan people that they are so dysfunctional that it took 60 years and still counting for them to understand that Pakistanis are not better than Nazis.

    I still remember watching a video few years back on some news channel when few Pakistani (bollywood wanna be) college girls were cheering Taliban and commenting on spread of Islam in Afghanistan and at the same time girls were shot at head in open stadiums in kandahar.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2010
  20. NewMember

    NewMember Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2010
    Messages:
    39
    Likes Received:
    0
    thanks i will go through those threads by taking my time as i am busy, but to suggest that american want to keep pakistan to control india's progress does not make any sense to me. can the americans do this indefinatley? how long will they be able to continue war in afghanistan? that war requires resources and is a very costy one. american people will ask questions, they have to leave the country one or another day,what will happen then?
     
  21. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2009
    Messages:
    5,408
    Likes Received:
    968
    I can see a number of reasons to that question. I'll summarize them briefly:


    • The no.1 reason is that they're overstretched. If they truly want to foray into Pakistan, they'll have to wind up the war in Iraq.
    • Inter-NATO politics: Since this is a coalition, and any forays into Pakistan will have repercussions on allied troops in Afghanistan, the U.S. will have to take them into consideration.
    • An established puppet regime, that for the interim holds the status-quo in Islamabad: no matter how we want to slice it, Zardari and his cronies remain very 'amenable' to the United States.
    • Weapons sales to that regime: Until they find something more lucrative than FMS sales to that country, in the face of always close-on-the-heels Chinese competition, it will remain just one more factor in the calculus between these nations.
    • The most viable logistics route for the present and foreseeable future: In the absence of cordial relations with Iran, this remains their only real supply route. Anything else would be forbiddingly expensive. I mean, what regime allows you to occupy the bulk of its containers at its cargo ports, and actually protects them by posting troops along the Khyber-Pukhtoonkhwa.
    • A nuclear command structure that has not been penetrated yet: the disposal of their nuclear assets, all their nuclear assets, will remain a vital consideration. Relatedly, a military command structure that has not been penetrated: an agency that exerts significant control over the levers of influence on Islamabad. Unlike the cronies in Islamabaad, these remain resolutely steadfast to their country, and will not give in so easily.
    • My own reading of the ISI is that, with Gen. Pasha, this has now been tangibly penetrated. For otherwise, you would not see such significant, deadly lapses and security failures, politicians breathing relatively freely and an apparent consolidation, and immunity, of US assets and those of foreign intelligence agencies- with the notable exception of NATO cargo containers.
    • The China factor: No matter how we look at it, China will monitor the situation closely. And is not likely to take things lying down.
    • The Iran factor: If the whole deal with the approaching-crucial uranium enrichment is true, U.S. priorities might lie elsewhere first. There, however, seems to be some considerable confusion on the issue: with Iran today saying it was willing to stop enrichment to 20%, if it was provided fuel for a test reactor. There seem to be a lotta backdoor negotiations going on, as one would expect with a thing like this.
    • Intelligence sharing: I have a feeling there is some significant intelligence-sharing, particlarly in joint ops along the porous border.
    • The India factor: No matter how you look at it, a full-fledged incursion into Pakistan, as it were, is likely to put the Karachi harbour out of operation. In this scenario, an alternative supply point for logistics, berthing and refuelling, likely in India, will have to be operational. Not to mention significant naval deployment, if hostilities are outright. And of course, the repercussions this will have on the domestic politics within India.
    • Global opinion and the protraction of a war already long-drawn out: American policymakers, especially the Obama administration, will see this as a crucial element in their public relations and foreign policy. We shouldn't be discounting this. They will probably require another jus ad bellum or casus belli to go to war, probly on their own soil, and I don't think the Americans have the gumption for it.
    • An alternative scenario can be conceived, wherein the Taliban make moves on Islamabad, threaten to capture the seat of political power and the entire world is in panic, etc. for want of a nuclear power falling into the hands of loonies. That may serve as a justifiable reason for Americans to occupy Cabinet block. That will however require the severe debilitating of the Army, so they cannot fight, or appear to be suffering at the hands of their adversaries, and a penetration of the intelligence apparatus far greater than what it is at present. It will also have to consider the many offshoots of militant groups in the region: all with diversifying agendas and strategies.
    • For now, the Americans are bombing the Pakhtoons back into the stone age and I think they're satisfied with that. They might escalate that to air strikes, or actual physical raids. But I don't see that going anywhere else for the 'seeable future.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2010

Share This Page