‘Drone strikes if Kashmir militants aren’t touched’

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by Vishwarupa, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. Vishwarupa

    Vishwarupa Senior Member Senior Member

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    Pak., U.S. entered into a secret deal: NYT

    In a secret deal, Pakistan allowed American drone strikes on its soil on the condition that the unmanned aircraft would stay away from its nuclear facilities and the mountain camps where Kashmiri militants were trained for attacks in India, according to a media report.

    Under negotiations between the ISI and the CIA during 2004, the terms of the bargain were set, The New York Times reported on Sunday.

    “Pakistani intelligence officials insisted that drones fly only in narrow parts of the tribal areas — ensuring that they would not venture where Islamabad did not want the Americans going: Pakistan’s nuclear facilities, and the mountain camps where Kashmiri militants were trained for attacks in India,” the paper said.

    Pakistani officials also insisted that they be allowed to approve each drone strike, giving them tight control over the list of targets, it added.

    The “secret deal” over drone strikes was reached after CIA agreed to kill tribal warlord Nek Muhammad, a Pakistani ally of the Afghan Taliban who led a rebellion and was marked by Islamabad as an “enemy of the state”, the NYT reported, citing an excerpt from the book The Way of the Knife: The CIA, a Secret Army, and a War at the Ends of the Earth.

    A CIA official had met the then ISI Chief Ehsan ul-Haq with the offer that if the American intelligence agency killed Muhammad, “would the ISI allow regular armed drone flights over the tribal areas”, the report said.

    ISI-CIA bargain

    The ISI and CIA also agreed that all drone flights in Pakistan would operate under the American agency’s “covert action authority”, which meant that the U.S. would never acknowledge the missile strikes and that Pakistan would either take credit for the individual killings or remain silent.

    While Pakistani officials had in the past considered drone flights a violation of sovereignty, it was Muhammad’s rise to power that forced them to reconsider their line of thought and eventually allow Predator drones.

    The ISI-CIA’s “back-room bargain” sheds light on the beginning of the covert drone war which “began under the Bush administration, was embraced and expanded by President Obama”.

    From capture to kill

    The deal resulted in the CIA changing its focus from capturing terrorists to killing them, and helped “transform an agency that began as a cold war espionage service into a paramilitary organisation”.

    After Muhammad’s killing in a drone strike, a Pakistani military spokesman had told reporters that “al-Qaeda facilitator” Nek Muhammad and four other “militants” had been killed in a rocket attack by Pakistani troops, the paper said.

    During the time when the negotiations were being held, CIA’s then Inspector-General John Helgerson came out with a critical report about the abuse of detainees in the agency’s secret prisons.

    Mr. Helgerson’s report has been described as the single most important reason for the CIA’s shift from capturing to killing terrorism suspects.

    CIA’s Counterterrorism Centre (CTC) had earlier focused on capturing al-Qaeda operatives, interrogating them in its jails or outsourcing interrogations to intelligence services of Pakistan, Jordan, Egypt and using the information to hunt more suspects. Mr. Helgerson’s report raised questions about interrogation methods like waterboarding and sleep deprivation, raising concerns that it violated the UN Convention Against Torture.

    The report “was the beginning of the end” for CTC’s detention programme.

    “The ground had shifted, and counterterrorism officials began to rethink the strategy for the secret war. Armed drones, and targeted killings in general, offered a new direction. Killing by remote control was the antithesis of the dirty, intimate work of interrogation.

    “Targeted killings were cheered by Republicans and Democrats alike, and using drones flown by pilots who were stationed thousands of miles away made the whole strategy seem risk-free. Before long the CIA would go from being the long-term jailer of America’s enemies to a military organisation that erased them,” the NYT report said.

    ‘Drone strikes if Kashmir militants aren’t touched’ - The Hindu
     
    uvbar, arnabmit and A chauhan like this.
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  3. Maharana

    Maharana Regular Member

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    Once again proves that no-one is going to help you unless you help yourself.
     
  4. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    It appears to be true and was very clear from the way drones were striking, they didn't bomb the terror camps in the PoK. If Americans think that PoK militants will not harm US then they are wrong. However It reveals the true face of both the countries.
     
  5. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    US Officials are not Idiots to believe that..

    What Guarantees that those Camps in POK will not be used to train Jihads against India / Israel / Western Countries so does Russia..

    Afaik, These Camps have every facility to train any terror tactics..
     
  6. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    The Indian Govt. should send a demarche to the US Ambassador and the CIA station chief.
     
  7. Vishwarupa

    Vishwarupa Senior Member Senior Member

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    As POK is integral park of India, India should not allow any country to strike its land.

    India should have its own strategy to get POK back & should not depend on US or any other country.
     
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  8. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Pak ‘secret’ drone deal with US: Keep off camps training Kashmir

    New York, April 7
    In a secret deal, Pakistan allowed American drone strikes on its soil on the condition that the unmanned aircraft would stay away from its nuclear facilities and the mountain camps where Kashmiri militants were trained for attacks in India, said a media report.

    Under secret negotiations between Pakistani intelligence agency ISI and America's CIA during 2004, the terms of the bargain were set, the New York Times reported today.

    “Pakistani intel officials insisted that drones fly only in narrow parts of the tribal areas — ensuring that they would not venture where Islamabad did not want the Americans going: Pakistan’s nuclear facilities, and mountain camps where Kashmiri militants were trained for attacks in India,” the paper said.

    The "secret deal" over drone strikes was reached after CIA agreed to kill tribal warlord Nek Muhammad, a Pakistani ally of the Afghan Taliban who led a rebellion and was marked by Islamabad as an "enemy of the state," the NYT reported, citing an excerpt from the book 'The Way of the Knife: The CIA, a Secret Army, and a War at the Ends of the Earth'.

    A CIA official had met the then ISI chief Ehsan-ul Haq with the offer that if it killed Muhammad, "would the ISI allow regular armed drone flights over the tribal areas," the report said.

    The ISI and the CIA also agreed that all drone flights in Pakistan would operate under the American agency's "covert action authority", which meant that the US would never acknowledge the missile strikes and that Pakistan would either take credit for the individual killings or remain silent.

    While Pakistani officials had in the past considered drone flights a violation of sovereignty, it was Muhammad's rise to power that forced them to reconsider their line of thought and eventually allow predator drones. — PTI

    The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Main News
     
  9. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    what you guys are expecting ? Uncle is not going to take out our terrorists, we have to do that our self.

    Wont be bad idea if we make and send our own armed drones to increase confusion and distrust.


    To all Pakistanis, your govt has allowed/given licence to US to kill, your citizen including you, so be careful, you are not safe in your house or in street. Uncles toys can take you out any time of day and night and their is nothing you can do about it. :rofl: (so much so for nuclear weapon state) :rofl:
     
  10. Somreet Bhattacharya

    Somreet Bhattacharya Regular Member

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    So it ultimately turns out that the US is one of the greatest perpetrators of world terrorism...isn't it? What should India do now?? bomb these terror camps since it is a threat our security, just like the US did in Afghanistan,,??? I am sure the next big find will be CIA operatives training terrorist in Muzzaffarabad,
     
    sayareakd likes this.
  11. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Re: Pak ‘secret’ drone deal with US: Keep off camps training Kashmir

    ‘Drone strikes if Kashmir militants aren’t touched’


    Pak., U.S. entered into a secret deal: NYT

    In a secret deal, Pakistan allowed American drone strikes on its soil on the condition that the unmanned aircraft would stay away from its nuclear facilities and the mountain camps where Kashmiri militants were trained for attacks in India, according to a media report.

    Under negotiations between the ISI and the CIA during 2004, the terms of the bargain were set, The New York Times reported on Sunday.

    “Pakistani intelligence officials insisted that drones fly only in narrow parts of the tribal areas — ensuring that they would not venture where Islamabad did not want the Americans going: Pakistan’s nuclear facilities, and the mountain camps where Kashmiri militants were trained for attacks in India,” the paper said.

    Pakistani officials also insisted that they be allowed to approve each drone strike, giving them tight control over the list of targets, it added.

    The “secret deal” over drone strikes was reached after CIA agreed to kill tribal warlord Nek Muhammad, a Pakistani ally of the Afghan Taliban who led a rebellion and was marked by Islamabad as an “enemy of the state”, the NYT reported, citing an excerpt from the book The Way of the Knife: The CIA, a Secret Army, and a War at the Ends of the Earth.

    A CIA official had met the then ISI Chief Ehsan ul-Haq with the offer that if the American intelligence agency killed Muhammad, “would the ISI allow regular armed drone flights over the tribal areas”, the report said.

    ISI-CIA bargain

    The ISI and CIA also agreed that all drone flights in Pakistan would operate under the American agency’s “covert action authority”, which meant that the U.S. would never acknowledge the missile strikes and that Pakistan would either take credit for the individual killings or remain silent.

    While Pakistani officials had in the past considered drone flights a violation of sovereignty, it was Muhammad’s rise to power that forced them to reconsider their line of thought and eventually allow Predator drones.

    The ISI-CIA’s “back-room bargain” sheds light on the beginning of the covert drone war which “began under the Bush administration, was embraced and expanded by President Obama”.

    From capture to kill

    The deal resulted in the CIA changing its focus from capturing terrorists to killing them, and helped “transform an agency that began as a cold war espionage service into a paramilitary organisation”.

    After Muhammad’s killing in a drone strike, a Pakistani military spokesman had told reporters that “al-Qaeda facilitator” Nek Muhammad and four other “militants” had been killed in a rocket attack by Pakistani troops, the paper said.

    During the time when the negotiations were being held, CIA’s then Inspector-General John Helgerson came out with a critical report about the abuse of detainees in the agency’s secret prisons.

    Mr. Helgerson’s report has been described as the single most important reason for the CIA’s shift from capturing to killing terrorism suspects.

    CIA’s Counterterrorism Centre (CTC) had earlier focused on capturing al-Qaeda operatives, interrogating them in its jails or outsourcing interrogations to intelligence services of Pakistan, Jordan, Egypt and using the information to hunt more suspects. Mr. Helgerson’s report raised questions about interrogation methods like waterboarding and sleep deprivation, raising concerns that it violated the UN Convention Against Torture.

    The report “was the beginning of the end” for CTC’s detention programme.

    “The ground had shifted, and counterterrorism officials began to rethink the strategy for the secret war. Armed drones, and targeted killings in general, offered a new direction. Killing by remote control was the antithesis of the dirty, intimate work of interrogation.

    “Targeted killings were cheered by Republicans and Democrats alike, and using drones flown by pilots who were stationed thousands of miles away made the whole strategy seem risk-free. Before long the CIA would go from being the long-term jailer of America’s enemies to a military organisation that erased them,” the NYT report said.

    ‘Drone strikes if Kashmir militants aren’t touched’ - The Hindu
     
  12. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Re: Pak ‘secret’ drone deal with US: Keep off camps training Kashmir

    Nek Muhammad was a friend turned enemy of Pakistan Army.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Killing of Nek Muhammad paved way for Baitullah Mehsud and the later Hakimullah Mehsud, the current emir for TTP. They will be fuming at this news now.
     
  13. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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  14. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

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    Re: Pak ‘secret’ drone deal with US: Keep off camps training Kashmir

    Good Terrorist and Bad Terrorist.

    The reason both US and Pakis are suffering.
     
  15. average american

    average american Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Pak ‘secret’ drone deal with US: Keep off camps training Kashmir

    Sounds like Indians wanting the USA to do their fighting for them to me.
     
  16. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

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    Re: Pak ‘secret’ drone deal with US: Keep off camps training Kashmir

    That's the problem with US.They have the definition "Those are your terrorist and we would only kill our terrorists"

    The terrorists which you are supposed to kill are simply shifted to PoK by ISI. Once you finish(not sure how many decades it would take) all of your terrorist the other terrorists would come back to AF/Pak border.
     
  17. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Two threads merged.
     
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  18. Daredevil

    Daredevil On Vacation! Administrator

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    Re: Pak ‘secret’ drone deal with US: Keep off camps training Kashmir

    You created them, so you handle it. One should clean up after his/her own sh!t.
     
  19. arnabmit

    arnabmit Homo Communis Indus Senior Member

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    Re: Pak ‘secret’ drone deal with US: Keep off camps training Kashmir

    It is just the US hypocrisy which irks us. Don't call it "War on terrorism", call it "War against US enemies" and we won't say anything.

    Stop portraying yourself as the police of the world when you ever do is to work for your own interest and give a damn about any other country.

     
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  20. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    It is our fight but what happen if terrorist trained in POK will nuke US land ?

    then you will say it was our mistake to allow Pakistanis to operate training camps for Kashmiri Terrorists. :rofl:
     
  21. Maharana

    Maharana Regular Member

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    Re: Pak ‘secret’ drone deal with US: Keep off camps training Kashmir

    Actually no.

    What I heard is the sound of frustration that my fellow Indians have on our Governments and intelligence agencies when they behave like 'sitting ducks' on the crucial matters of National Security.

    Every country does what is the best in their national interest whenever and wherever possible, with all the means necessary. My people are having a hard time recalling such incidents other than that of Bangladesh War when we did show the spine and exercised our capabilities to optimum effectiveness. Other than that -

    - We knew the repercussions of Pakistan becoming a nuclear state, we knew that they started after 74 when India became a nuclear power, but what substantial act did we put in place to stop it when Mossad was bombing the crap out of Iraqi scientists of Saddam's regime even keeping France at bay which was helping Saddam. Israel even went to the extent of bombing Osirak, that is what I call determination to save their people from getting killed by fanatics similar to the nutjobs we have on our western border.

    - For almost two and a half decades we've been fighting an insurgency shamelessly owned by Pakistan in Kashmir and that's not it. They have been causing trouble in our Punjab, North-East and Naxal affected regions. Apart from sacrificing our security forces and getting our own citizens killed in clashes, what espionage, sabotage or target killings of the people responsible for these has been done by our Intelligence agencies in their own bases inside Pakistan. Remember that Hafiz Saeed is still alive and we are still hoping that one fine day Pakistan would be an angel and hand him over to us so that we can file a case and try him in our courts feeding him biryani and what not.

    I would not be offended and so will many others here if the charges of us creating trouble for Pakistan in Afghanistan proves to be true. Rather I would be delighted.

    We don't want US to fight for India. We want to fight for us ourselves but we don't until someone hits us first. We just want a pro-active India that does not always takes a blow to react.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2013

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