ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Discussion in 'Indian Air Force' started by Kunal Biswas, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. shuvo@y2k10

    [email protected] Senior Member Senior Member

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  2. TPFscopes

    TPFscopes Rest in Peace Senior Member

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    Please go through the whole discussion to clear your doubts but if you don't have that time than I want to share quotes from the articles you shared..
    1.
    http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/11/brahmos-light-cruise-missile-for-lca.html
    Mig-35 is a improved variant of Mig-29 and we already know that BrahMos-NG will be fitted on Migs.

    2.
    http://www.india.com/news/india/bra...uccessful-test-firing-from-su-30-mki-2682176/
    This raised the questions on credibility of the article because BrahMos NG is planned to have 290km range.

    Please check out the below image for range and planned aircrafts for BrahMos-NG (specially Mig & Sukhoi)
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    India's multi-role fighter Tejas to be equipped with world's fastest cruise missile -'Brahmos Light'

    Source : http://www.timesnownews.com/india/a...os-launch-iaf-to-acquire-brahmos-light/133256

    ==================

    Its the source talks about Tejas as prime contender for future usage of the weapon, their is nothing to dispute this unless official verification says otherwise ..

    If you have anything support your argument with sources please continue otherwise lets not make assumptions based on personal views ..

     
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  4. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    I believe its Nirhbay which was planned for Tejas and not Brahmos, Interesting times ahead ..

    Lets see and wait ..
     
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  5. TPFscopes

    TPFscopes Rest in Peace Senior Member

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    Sure:cool1:

    Time will tell but as I said BrahMos-NG will not be on LCA (mk1 & mk1A) but another lighter future variant (which is not on any development plan) may be there..:yo:

    yup, something like Swedish RBS-15 is quite feasible with mk1 & mk1a
     
  6. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Whatever the case, Tejas will turn out to be more capable platform and will also invite brahmos family of missiles export with the aircraft under one package ..
     
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  7. shuvo@y2k10

    [email protected] Senior Member Senior Member

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    Tejas mk 2 will sport both Bhramos mini as well as air launched Nirbhay.
     
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  8. Shashwat

    Shashwat Regular Member

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    ^^ You forgot Agni, Prithvi and Nag too :p
     
  9. Sancho

    Sancho Regular Member

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    LCA MK2 will come for sure, the question is only, will it be an upgrade like Darin 3 for the 123 x LCAs we have on order so far, or will IAF be convinced enough to make a follow order for newly build once?

    The aim of the MK2 upgrade was all along, to give LCA the flight performance, it should have according to the ASR. That's only possible with a higher thrust engine, airframe and aerodynamic changes. So if we want to get the 123 x LCAs up to the initial goal, we have to upgrade them at a certain point to MK2 level.

    The issue for new orders on the other hand, is the time line. IAF expects the first MK2s only around 2027 and even that is optimistic, given the FOC delays and the status of the MK1A development. So what use will IAF have of new LCA MK2s, when the project is so delayed and our opponents already are moving on to 5th gen fighters?

    The future of LCA is not dependent on IAF, or foreign medium class fighters, but on the success of the programme itself. The more delays it faces, the less potential is left for the fighter, which then translates into less usefulness.
     
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  10. Sancho

    Sancho Regular Member

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    A tech demonstrator, is a prototype to test certain techs or aerodynamic capabilities. NLCA MK1 for example is a TD, to develop the capability to navalise a fighter in India. It got design and technical modifications to flight test them, but was not meant for operational service, since it doesn't fulfil the requirements of IN. That's where NLCA MK2 was suppose to be the solution, at least of ADA.
    The NLCA TD was very important for ADA to gain experience and know how, the NLCA as a fighter however, was never a realistic choice as a carrier fighter to project power.
     
  11. TPFscopes

    TPFscopes Rest in Peace Senior Member

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    @Kshithij
    I have one more examples that NASA always have one of the live projects of x-planes and those x-planes were only meant for technology demonstration. F-16XL was one of the example and in India , NLCA mk-1 takes that place.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  12. Kshithij

    Kshithij Regular Member

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    I understand that Mk1 is not yet being produced vigorously. But, that doesn't mean you can call it as good as jaguar. You can only say that it is not yet complete. It may be a technology demonstrator, but that is what I am saying - Tejas is better than Jaguar in capabilities. Did I say that jaguar must be dumped? I also understand the value if time. But, making statements based in preliminary results and equating an incomplete product with a complete product without assuming a theoretical completion is meaningless. I am only speaking of the absolute potential of jaguar and Tejas. Jaguar can't be upgraded to be any better. But, tejas is designed to be better. Period.

    About, MK2, It is under new design and is a guarantee. If India is incapable of making an aircraft in next 8 years despite this level of progress and comparative development time in other countries, then India is unfit to survive. I would destroy such a nation as and when I can. There is no point even keeping hopes and discussing more. The next discussion will be - how to destroy India, not how to make Tejas MK2.
     
  13. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    MK2 is just like Arjun MK2, Their is difference in dimensions and cannot be said an upgrade on existing air-frame but extensive but at the same time, It will take lesser time due to the fact most of the equipment already tested on MK1 development. Just like Arjun MK2 here, The dimensions and other details are posted in this very thread ..

    IAF intended to buy 14 squadrons of Tejas series, How, where and what cannot be predicted in present, We have to wait and see ..

     
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  14. Sancho

    Sancho Regular Member

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    Arjun is the wrong comparison imo, since it mainly added subsystems to the available frame. LCA MK2 on the other hand will be a re-design of the original and will have several airframe changes, that all need to be developed, tested and certified. It will take only subsystems like AESA or EW upgrades from the MK1A, but that's it.

    The more obvious comparison is the Gripen NG/E development, since it shares the integration of the new engine, coupled with air intake modifications, while the airframe modifications are different so far (extended length and width of the MK2 fuselage, removed gear bay and additional hardpoints for the Gripen). Integration of radar and avionics is not the issue, but the design changes and modifications, were far more comprehensive than even Saab expected.

    And with Air Chief Dhanoa's recent statement, we have an official time line as well:
    http://www.tribuneindia.com/mobi/ne...al-no-overpricing-air-force-chief/498904.html

    "If" everything goes as planned.
     
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  15. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Its a wrong conception, though i added it for only example here in this thread ..

    Lets hope for the best ..

     
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  16. shuvo@y2k10

    [email protected] Senior Member Senior Member

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    Bhramos mini to be integrated on LCA Tejas :
    Source : http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/11/brahmos-light-cruise-missile-for-lca.html
    http://www.india.com/news/india/bra...uccessful-test-firing-from-su-30-mki-2682176/
    http://www.timesnownews.com/india/a...os-launch-iaf-to-acquire-brahmos-light/133256
    http://www.janes.com/article/75961/...issile-likely-to-be-ready-by-2019-says-report
    Nirbhay ALCM to be integrated on Tejas in future:
    Source: http://www.defenseworld.net/news/12...ubsonic_Missile_For_Sukhoi_30MKI#.WiVzWEqWbIU
    https://ipanewspack.com/india-begin...hay-subsonic-cruise-missile-for-the-su-30mki/
    DRDO will reportedly shorten the Nirbhay by about 25 % to be fitted on LCA Tejas.
    Also the news of Nirbhay ALCM to be fitted on Tejas is already disscussed in DFI when the story broke in 2015.
    Source : http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/ada-tejas-lca-news-and-discussions.1/page-459
    (Old timers on DFI may remember)
    Hence this is not my expectation but the expectation of DRDO on which they are working hard to fulfill.
     
  17. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    LCA AF Mk2 program details from ADA

    LCA AF Mk2
    10.1 Ba ckground: LCA AF Mk2 was conceived as the performance of LCA AF Mk1 was found inadequate with GEF404-IN20 engine The scope of FSED Phase 3 as per project sanction is as follows:-

    Design, develop and build two aircraft with
    - New Engine
    - Necessary changes in the structure and systems to integrate the new engine
    - Weight reduction to improve performance
    - Unified EW Suite (UEWS)
    - Development of new DFCC, its test facilities and integration
    - Upgrade/modification/maintenance of test facilities

    10.2 Additional Scope:

    Extensive studies were carried out at ADA to make suitable changes in LCA AF Mk2 to address the maintainability issues observed in LCA AF Mk1, improve the systems like fuel, landing gear and brakes, electrical, armament etc. Also a number of new/upgraded systems have been incorporated to make the aircraft more contemporary. As a result, the scope for FSED Phase 3 increased substantially due to extensive changes incorporated to have an improved aircraft with improved performance in all aspects.

    Important new/ upgrades of systems are listed
    below:
    - Introduction of 500mm plug in fuselage
    - Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar
    - On Board Oxygen Generation System (OBOGS)
    - New Cockpit with larger size smart displays
    - One Mission Management and Display Computer (MMDC) in place of two Open Architecture Computers
    - HMDS based on optical sensor
    - Smart HUD with improved Field of Vision
    - Higher power Jet Fuel Starter
    - Servo controlled Airbrake under the command of DFCC control
    - Pressurized Fuel System
    - Unified Pylon Interface Computer (UPIC) in place of individual Pylon Interface Boxes
    - Combined Interrogator Transponder (CIT)
    - Indigenous Actuators
    - NVG compatible lighting

    Activities Carried out:

    Presently, the configuration of LCA AF Mk2 has been frozen with all the design improvements and Preliminary Design Review (PDR) has been carried out in June 2014 and detail design is in progress. GE-F414 engine was selected as the higher thrust engine for LCA AF Mk2 and a contract was signed with M/s GE, USA in September 2012. The CDR of alternate engine has been completed. Engine is undergoing final qualification and lifing evaluation tests.

    10.4 Milestones Achieved:
    Following milestones have been
    achieved:
    - Configuration freeze
    - Engine contract finalization
    - In-board and NMG freeze
    - PDR

    10.5 Progress of Design and Development
    Activities:

    10.5.1 Configuration & NMG:
    The configuration of LCA AF Mk2 has been frozen. The Numerical Master Geometry (NMG) has been revised based on recommendations of PDR Committee to improve performance. The changes in NMG have resulted in drag reduction and increase in fuel content by about 2 0Kg. These improvements are going to result in improved point and mission performance.

    10.5.2 Inboards & Layout: The inboards have been finalised addressing the accessibility and maintainability issues observed in LCA Mk1.
    - Layouts preparation is in progress.
    - The station wise mass distribution is under finalisation.

    10.5.3 Aerodynamics :

    A number of aerodynamics improvements have been carried out to reduce drag and improve performance:
    - Drag reduction studies have been completed. Canopy reshaping, outer cowl modification, actuator fairing extension and supersonic pylons
    have resulted in approx 20 counts (8%) drag reduction in supersonic regimes.
    - Wind Tunnel studies have been completed.
    - Aero loads computations have been completed.

    10.5.4 Airframe:
    - Three door AAID finalised.
    - BMI material developed for high temperature applications.
    - Composite pipelines developed for ECS.
    - Spine widened for providing accessibility and maintainability.
    - Pilot step provided for pilot's emergency egress.
    - SPS bay redesigned to improve maintainability.

    10.5.5 Engine:
    - Aircraft engine bay ventilation scheme has been finalised.
    - Engine-Airframe Interface Control Diagram (ICD) has been prepared.
    - Aircraft Qualification Tests have been completed.
    - ASMET (Aircraft Simulated Mission Endurance Tests) results are under discussion.
    - New JFS with higher torque GTSU-135 is under development.

    10.5.6 Mechanical Systems:
    - Layouts preparation and detail design is in progress.
    - Feasibility to increase wheel size for increasing the capacity of brake system are in progress.
    - Trials to offload one hydraulic system to reduce the load on JFS during starting are going on. This will help in cold weather high altitude operations.
    - Liquid Cooling System configurations, separate for AESA and UEWS have been finalised.
    - Studies to shift the Air to Air refueling probe to right are in progress to obviate probe coming in Field of View of Head Up Display (HUD).

    10.5.7 Integrated Flight Control System:
    - DFCC: CDR completed. Realization st of QT unit by 31 Dec 2016.
    - Indigenous Actuators: Primary Actuators QT completed, Iron Bird testing completed. Being evaluated on LCA Mk1. Secondary Actuators
    under development. Air worthy units will be available by December 2016.

    10.5.8 Avionics:
    - Avionics architecture has been finalised.
    - New cockpit with bigger size (6”x8”) displays has been designed.
    - Development of new LRUs is in progress.
    - Avionics will be ready by Dec 2018.
    - Configuration of Active Phased Array based Unified Electronic Warfare Suite (UEWS) finalised.
    - The number of elements that can be incorporated with the existing geometry for the Antenna Array unit of AESA Radar has been finalised
    and performance parameters like range and Effective Radiated Power (ERP) computed.
    - Night Vi s ion Goggle (NVG) compatible lights for Navigation lights and Taxi / Landing Lights are being developed.
    - Engineering models have been developed. Performance is being evaluated.
    - Conformal antenna developed for V/UHF.

    10.5.12 Interdisciplinary Studies: Following
    studies are in progress to bring out
    improvements in design:
    - LCA AF Mk2 cockpit assessment for new anthropometric data received from IAF is in progress.
    - Thermal mapping studies of aircraft are in progress.
    - New installation scheme in Avionics Bay for better accessibility /maintainability is under finalisation.
    - Rationalisation of drop tanks is in progress to reduce variety of drop tanks.
    - Electrical modeling of LCA AF Mk2 to study indirect effect of lightning is in progress at IISc, Bangalore.
    - Studies to bring out necessary changes in LRUs to have Push-fit type connectors for quick removal/fitment of the same have been completed.
    - Weight reduction studies have been carried out and design improvements required to reduce weight have been identified.

    [​IMG]

    =================

    This is a re-post for better clarity on the program ..
     
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  18. G10

    G10 Regular Member

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    I like what you posted kunal. Detail activity. When was this posted first seems 2015-16. Any links.
     
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  19. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    I got this from BR some time back, Unfortunately didn't posted the links here ..
     
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  20. darshan978

    darshan978 Regular Member

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    So MK 2 PROGRAMME IS ALIVE HMM GREAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MK 2 BEFORE 2020
     

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