ADA Tejas Mark-II/Medium Weight Fighter

[airtel]

The point I am making is that LCA Mk2 with better engines is still no match for F16V versions we are discussing with LM. In war, F16V will simply have too powerful tools to detect Su30mki and LCA . Now if we get F16V for 60mn per plane, does it make sense to go for a domestic 4th gen aircraft. Our focus should now be on AMCA and F16V will give us the breather . Once a relationship with Pentagon and LM is established, at least some inputs can be given on different electronics technologies. the rest our scientists can do .

F-16v has what type of " too powerful Tools " for detection ?? which we can not buy from USA or other countries ?? Go and check the latest tender of Radar & EW suites for Tajas mk-1a ...............& which companies s have submitted proposals .

we can buy Raytheon active combat radar (of F-16 from USA ) or Captor-E (of euro-fighter typhoon from airbus ) or RBE-2 of (rafale from thales ) for Tejas ...............along with their EW suites & other subsystems .

cost of each F-16 blk 60 with all weapons & support was more than 200 million $ in 2014

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...ssible-deal-for-quotblock-61quot-f-16-395235/

 

[WolfPack86]

F-16v has what type of " too powerful Tools " for detection ?? which we can not buy from USA or other countries ?? Go and check the latest tender of Radar & EW suites for Tajas mk-1a ...............& which companies s have submitted proposals .

we can buy Raytheon active combat radar (of F-16 from USA ) or Captor-E (of euro-fighter typhoon from airbus ) or RBE-2 of (rafale from thales ) for Tejas ...............along with their EW suites & other subsystems .

cost of each F-16 blk 60 with all weapons & support was more than 200 million $ in 2014

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...ssible-deal-for-quotblock-61quot-f-16-395235/

You mean this US Radar
From the US, Raytheon will offer its RACR AESA-MMR along with the ALQ-184 EW pod, ALR-69A radar warning receiver, a laser warning system and BAE Systems AAR-57 MAWS sensor.

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/search?updated-min=2017-01-01T00:00:00+05:30&updated-max=2018-01-01T00:00:00+05:30&max-results=3

 

[airtel]

You mean this US Radar
From the US, Raytheon will offer its RACR AESA-MMR along with the ALQ-184 EW pod, ALR-69A radar warning receiver, a laser warning system and BAE Systems AAR-57 MAWS sensor.

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/search?updated-min=2017-01-01T00:00:00+05:30&updated-max=2018-01-01T00:00:00+05:30&max-results=3

yes ............

but that analysis is Partially wrong .


selex radars can not be chosen ( Leonardo Finmeccanica )..................so Captor-E would be a better option .

i dont know what saab is going to offer ............. grippen also use selex radars .

saab is developing a new GaN based radar .

 

[tejas warrior]

Expect big announcement on Mk2 during Aero-India in February.

 

[WolfPack86]

Is Parrikar planning Private Production line for LCA-Tejas MK2?
Tender documents issued by HAL for components for development of first three LCA-Tejas MK2 aircraft suggests that MK2 program is again gaining momentum after recent flip-flops by Indian Navy and silence adopted by Indian air force over its requirement for MK2 variant. Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar is adamant to carry on the development of MK2 variant and is contemplating giving production rights to Joint private venture who will have exclusive rights to manufacture them in India. Buzz around media circle is that MK1A and MK2 might enter production post-2020 and Naval MK2 too will emerge by 2020 but HAL will be tasked to produce 16 MK1A per year and another production line may be tasked to produce 8-12 MK2 per year from a new joint venture. Parrikar sees requirement of another 83 MK2 combat jets to meet the shortfall in requirements of Indian Air force light class fighter jets after the retirement of Mig-21s and if ordered LCA-Tejas order table will be 40 MK1,83MK1A and 83MK2 which will add up to 206. Indian Navy also has a requirement for 56 carriers based fighter jets.
http://idrw.org/is-parrikar-planning-private-production-line-for-lca-tejas-mk2/

 

[kunal1123]

Is Parrikar planning Private Production line for LCA-Tejas MK2?
Tender documents issued by HAL for components for development of first three LCA-Tejas MK2 aircraft suggests that MK2 program is again gaining momentum after recent flip-flops by Indian Navy and silence adopted by Indian air force over its requirement for MK2 variant. Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar is adamant to carry on the development of MK2 variant and is contemplating giving production rights to Joint private venture who will have exclusive rights to manufacture them in India. Buzz around media circle is that MK1A and MK2 might enter production post-2020 and Naval MK2 too will emerge by 2020 but HAL will be tasked to produce 16 MK1A per year and another production line may be tasked to produce 8-12 MK2 per year from a new joint venture. Parrikar sees requirement of another 83 MK2 combat jets to meet the shortfall in requirements of Indian Air force light class fighter jets after the retirement of Mig-21s and if ordered LCA-Tejas order table will be 40 MK1,83MK1A and 83MK2 which will add up to 206. Indian Navy also has a requirement for 56 carriers based fighter jets.
http://idrw.org/is-parrikar-planning-private-production-line-for-lca-tejas-mk2/

Well this can be true and it will be very good news for all tejas lover . and up to my knowledge the requirement for mk2 is more than 120. + navy and another 70-90 single engine that Defense Minister want to get .
and if, for tejas mk2 giving production rights to Joint private venture between Hal and another private player then it can have a lot export potential in term for stable production.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

IDRW is not very reliable source, Wait for official conformation ..

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Thank you. so we can say that military thrust of F414-EDE will reach 72 KN? 20% increment.

I do not know about dry thrust but hopefully so.

 

[ersakthivel]

The point I am making is that LCA Mk2 with better engines is still no match for F16V versions we are discussing with LM. In war, F16V will simply have too powerful tools to detect Su30mki and LCA . Now if we get F16V for 60mn per plane, does it make sense to go for a domestic 4th gen aircraft. Our focus should now be on AMCA and F16V will give us the breather . Once a relationship with Pentagon and LM is established, at least some inputs can be given on different electronics technologies. the rest our scientists can do .

1.Tejas will have the ability of first to track, lock & shoot its BVR missiles at any advanced F-16 variant due to lower RCS, & high ASEA radar detection & tracking combo.

F-16 V can detect Su-30 MKI at a farther range due to the later's higher RCS, but tejas mk2 will have four times lower RCS than any advanced F-16 V version, because F-16 V has exposed engine blades & Tejas has fully concealed engine blades & designed with lower RCS in mind from ground up.

Also Su-30 MKI has far superior jamming ability compared to any weapon of F-16, So what matters is the combo of LOWER RCS+ CAPACITY OF EW SUITS + HIGHER RADAR DETECTION RANGE+ HIGHER BVR MISSILE RANGE. Taking just one comparing it exclusively wont give accurate picture.

2. EW suite of tejas is custom built & lower RCS of tejas evens the odds with any better Ew suit of F-16.

3. The wing loading+ TWR ratio of tejas mk2 will be superior to any advanced F-16 variant.

4. There is no guarantee that "Superior EW, radar suites of F-16 V", will always defeat the radr, EW suit of tejas,

5. Any export weapon of foreign arms manufacturer is always marked down by 30% in tech capability than home version. So any export version of F-16 will follow this rule. Noway US is going to gift its most advanced Ew suits just because we pay them for a 100 odd F-16s.

6. In high Himalayan airspace the higher wing loading F-16 V 's higher thrust engine & high TWR is just paper tiger, because wing loading will play a crucial role in this sector, where tejas mk2 more than compensates for its bit lower TWR

7. It never makes sense to buy the about to be retired, end of its lifecycle - F-16 V at 60 million ,
compared to Tejas mk2 , which just starts its lifecylce, Because tejas mk2 can be updated with all the AMCA goodies in stealth coating, Ew suits, weapon suits without any royalty out go & permission hassles.

8. For example if DRDO develops a Brahmos mini that can be suitable to Mig-29 & tejas mk2, we can not integrate it to F-16 V , because Russia wont permit it. Imagine how superior will a tejas mk2 mated with brahmos mini in a strike role. No F-16 V , however advanced will ever match the deadly capability of low RCS Tejas mk2 mated with hypersonic no escape brahmos mini.

9. So in any comparison,
1. whether costs vs capability,
2..suitability to indian high himalayan airspace,
3.. ability to fire brahmos,Astra,
4, Hassle free upgrades, with lower costs & no need for permission from OEM


Tejas mk2 outguns F-16 V with comfortable margin. Tejas mk2 is a Relaxed Static Stability (RSS ) Fighter with very low wing loading & good enough TWR, F-16 is a static stability fighter & doesn't have RSS airframe

 

[Hemu Vikram Aditya]

Lol the engine used in saab Gripen is inferior to our Indiegenpus Kaveri Engine

 

[tharun]

What would be the best AESA radar for tejas...Which are now present in the market

 

[Scrutator]

I think it is futile to compare *just* the mechanics/avionics of two fighter jets e.g. if India should F16V or Tejas Mk2!! For argument sake, even if F16V outgunned Tejas Mk2 and had a slight edge over some of the EW suite it would be short-sighted of IAF to have multiplicity of radars in its arsenal. F16V comes with its own radar (AN/APGxy)that is integrated with only the American weaponry, ergo incompatible with all the current and future missiles that India would be developing. It would be a logistical nightmare ($$$) to have different stockpiles of missiles for different aircrafts! India would like to become completely self sufficient in missile development/deployment- an aim that will remain unfulfilled if multiplicity of foreign radars (without access to source codes) were to be deployed!!
Isn't it a shame already that Tejas (with Israeli radar) is currently incompatible with Astra (with a Russian seeker)? This kind of maladies need to be rectified in the future. At least the Israeli's will be more comfortable with sharing their source codes and working to integrate with Indian missiles....

 

[Prashant12]

Teja Aims To Show Its Potential In Bengaluru

Fighter jet Tejas to be flown by Air Chief at Bengaluru air show tomorrow.

Highlights

1. Fighter jet Tejas to fly at Bengaluru air show, biggest in Asia
2. Air Force has ordered 83 of these for 55,000 crores
3. Navy rejected it, but is open to considering upgraded version

Tomorrow, India's first home-made warplane, the Tejas, will be shown off at the opening of Asia's largest air show in Bengaluru where foreign manufacturers like Lockheed Martin and Saab are also competing to land multi-billion dollar defence contracts.

The Tejas Light Combat Aircraft has been 33 years in the making. But one of the most criticized aviation projects in India has now crossed a series of developmental milestones and is being inducted into the Air Force. In November last year, the government ordered 83 improved Tejas MK 1A fighters for about 50,000 crores.

To prove the Tejas' stature, the Indian Air Force Chief, Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa will fly the plane tomorrow. The Tejas was also part of the Republic Day fly-past this year, the first time the government cleared the flight of a single-engine fighter over Delhi's major Rajpath avenue in decades.

Test pilots at the National Flight Test Centre, which is working on increasing the operational capabilities expanding the flight envelope of the Tejas, have told NDTV that it is as easy to fly as the Mirage 2000, one of the frontline jets in service with the air force. Equipped with an Israeli air-to-air radar, the Tejas is now in the process of testing its ability to be refuelled mid-air, in the process doubling its operational range.

In December, the navy rejected the naval variant of the Tejas as being too heavy. That prompted the navy to issue a request last month for information on 57 foreign planes for its aircraft carriers. But NDTV has learnt that the navy is open to considering an updated version with a new engine that would make the Tejas capable of carrying a reasonable load of missiles and other weaponry while deployed on aircraft carriers.

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/home...-be-flown-by-air-force-chief-tomorrow-1659062

 

[Prashant12]

DARE-developed EW Pod

Uttam AESA

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/

 

[Prashant12]

GE supplies two test engines for Tejas Mk-2, eyes collaboration for AMCA

General Electric (GE) has delivered two qualified 414 engines to be tested on the planned home-grown Tejas Mk-2 single engine fighter and is looking to collaborate with India to build engines for the proposed advanced medium-combat aircraft.

The Tejas fighter is been powered by the GE-404 engine since its development and the IAF plans to induct over 120 planes with the same engine.So far, India has ordered around 100 engines for the fighter from GE and plans to buy more engines in the coming years.

The single engine fighter being developed by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), a DRDO unit will undergo an upgrade with more features that requires a more powerful engine and GE has been tasked to supply its GE-414 engine.


"The first two engines are for flight test. They are ready to go as and when the plane is ready. We are committed to deliver six more engines," said Mark Pearson, who leads the military engine programme for GE in an interview.

Pearson is betting on the over 700 engineers who work on design and take charge of manufacturing parts of GE's commercial aero engines, at its India centre in Bengaluru, to push for local co-development of the engine for AMCA, which ADA is developing.

India has begun preliminary design work on the stealth aircraft but has not launched a programme officially. GE is looking to partner with ADA, but it also requires a US government approval to collaborate on military programmes before its Bengaluru team can work on the jet engine programme.

The Bengaluru team has worked on the GE-9D engine that power the Boeing 777 planes and the engine that power the A380 aircraft. It also developing the 9X, which the local team in India is collaborating for the replacement engine of Boeing 777-9D.

"The foundation is already here built over 17 years," said Pearson.

GE, which has a manufacturing facility in Pune whose 40% contribution is engine components, says it could meet the mandated 50% requirement of local production for defence contracts within India. "We can deliver on our commitments as and when we see more orders," said Alok Nanda, General Manager, (India engineering operations) at GE.

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...es-collaboration-for-amca-117021401120_1.html

 

[IndianHawk]

DARE-developed EW Pod

Uttam AESA

http://trishul-trident.blogspot.in/

Uttam AESA , DRDO ew pod , and Kaveri engine . By 2020 we might have an fully indegenious LCA.

 

[Prashant12]

Cmd Balaji (ADA) says LCA Mark 2 prototype expected by 2020. Parallel development for CATOBAR capability dev in parallel for IAC2.

 

[Scrutator]

Cmd Balaji (ADA) says LCA Mark 2 prototype expected by 2020. Parallel development for CATOBAR capability dev in parallel for IAC2.

That quells the rumors that Mk2 prototype might be rolling out in 2018!!!

 

[Prashant12]

REVEALED: The Indian LCA Navy’s Big Fight Back

On Tuesday here at the Aero India show, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar added the latest in the series of nails in the coffin of the troubled LCA Navy, the carrier version of India’s in-service LCA Tejas. By now, the LCA Navy team in Bengaluru had gotten round to the reality that a paper plane that began in 2003 wouldn’t ever be an operational jet with a customer. Parrikar cajoled the team separately, assuring them that the government had no plans to pull the plug, and that the good work the team at the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) had done for over a decade would not go to waste. But the reality stuck. All that work on LCA Navy Mk1 wouldn’t result in sales of the aircraft. It would be forever be a technology demonstrator.

The last six months have brought headwind way beyond what this little jet was built for. But beyond the claimed stoicism of continuing endlessly with a project nobody wants, there’s a reality that has gone unreported so far. A reality that provides the first solid hope for a project that’s as good as dead but for an honour lifeline from the Department of Defence Production. And here’s the thing: it isn’t pity at all. Livefist met with ADA chief Commodore C.D. Balaji for what he described after as the frankest chat he’s had on the subject. And at the centre of the LCA Navy’s struggle for relevance is a solid kernel of hope.

The ADA has opened dialogue with the Indian Navy with the hope that its customer will come round to the view that the LCA Navy Mk.2 will be a sensible graduated step to the big twin engine jets it finally wants to operate. “The LCA Navy Mk.2 would be a great stepping stone,” Balaji tells Livefist. And he’s backing his pitch with a solid timeframe.

‘We’re aiming for a first flight of the LCA Navy Mk.2 in late 2020 or early 2021. The detailed design will be complete by 2019. To save time, we’ve already ordered raw materials required,’ Balaji says. Two GE F414 engines — one for the AF prototype and one for the LCA Navy — arrived earlier this month, the first batch of eight engines contracted from GE for the Mk.2 programme. That the LCA Navy will be a more powerful combat jet is well known. What Livefist has now discovered from the team is that there are design and engineering improvements being effected on the LCA Navy Mk.2 that could prove dealmaker if they work out.

For starters, the team plans to move the wings outboard by about 350mm, increasing the space significantly between the fuselage and the wings. This would immediately optimise load transfer (the ADA has had weight issues with the landing gear) and free up the central fuselage for fuel. ‘We believe the change will free up space for up to 700 kg additional fuel, providing about 22 minutes of additional time on task,’ Balaji tells Livefist. That’s huge for the tactical envelope the LCA platform was developed for.

But there’s a great deal of work left on the LCA Navy Mk.1 before the Mk.2 can begin taking shape. In the immediate future this summer, the LCA Navy Mk.1 prototypes will begin ‘taxi in engagement’ drills, where the jets are throttled on ground into the arrester wire at Goa’s Shore Based Test Facility (SBTF) to exercise structural compatibility for a hook. The tests have been delayed three months thanks to a damper failure during field carrier landing practice (FCLP) dummy approaches last year.

‘Our focus with the Mk.1 is carrier suitability. We’ve got a good handle on carrier ops. Control laws have matured well, and sit right on top of our simulations. Deck recoveries are a different challenge and there are several lead-up activities planned,’ he says.

The ADA has built a new test rig to test horizontal and vertical loads during a deck recovery, including 7.1 m/s sink rate and the 45 ton load on an arrester wire. ‘Structurally, everything checks out,’ Balaji says, adding, ‘We are doing more dummy approaches to fine tune our control laws. Want to narrow everything down so we have very predictable landings.’

Balaji smiles when pushed on the question of the Mk.1 and whether they are hoping for anything to come of it. ‘Saab has a Sea Gripen concept. They are in the same stage we were at in 2003 when we decided to create a carrier-capable derivative of the LCA Tejas. We have proven many technologies. The LCA Navy Mk.2 will incorporate every lesson we could possibly have learnt,’ he says.

There’s activity on the radar front too. Balaji’s team will freeing up LCA Tejas LSP-2 shortly for ground integration of India’s indigenous Uttam AESA radar. The ADA has asked the DRDO’s LRDE lab to keep the Uttam’s interfaces as similar as possible to the current system. ‘It will be a challenge, moving from a mechanically scanned radar to the AESA without interface changes but that is the attempt, to save time and forestall any structural changes to the aircraft or radar,’ says Balaji. Interestingly, since the LCA doesn’t have an integrated liquid cooling system necessary for an AESA radar, the team has suggested that a small auxiliary compartment that becomes redundant after the mechanical-to-AESA switch could be utilised to house a liquid cooling system.

A full scale model of the LCA Navy Mk.2 will be ready by early next year. Commodore Balaji and his team now hope their case will have a firm taker by then.

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/02/revealed-the-indian-lca-navys-big-fight-back.html

 

[Prayash]

GE supplies two test engines for Tejas Mk-2, eyes collaboration for AMCA

General Electric (GE) has delivered two qualified 414 engines to be tested on the planned home-grown Tejas Mk-2 single engine fighter and is looking to collaborate with India to build engines for the proposed advanced medium-combat aircraft.

The Tejas fighter is been powered by the GE-404 engine since its development and the IAF plans to induct over 120 planes with the same engine.So far, India has ordered around 100 engines for the fighter from GE and plans to buy more engines in the coming years.

The single engine fighter being developed by the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), a DRDO unit will undergo an upgrade with more features that requires a more powerful engine and GE has been tasked to supply its GE-414 engine.


"The first two engines are for flight test. They are ready to go as and when the plane is ready. We are committed to deliver six more engines," said Mark Pearson, who leads the military engine programme for GE in an interview.

Pearson is betting on the over 700 engineers who work on design and take charge of manufacturing parts of GE's commercial aero engines, at its India centre in Bengaluru, to push for local co-development of the engine for AMCA, which ADA is developing.

India has begun preliminary design work on the stealth aircraft but has not launched a programme officially. GE is looking to partner with ADA, but it also requires a US government approval to collaborate on military programmes before its Bengaluru team can work on the jet engine programme.

The Bengaluru team has worked on the GE-9D engine that power the Boeing 777 planes and the engine that power the A380 aircraft. It also developing the 9X, which the local team in India is collaborating for the replacement engine of Boeing 777-9D.

"The foundation is already here built over 17 years," said Pearson.

GE, which has a manufacturing facility in Pune whose 40% contribution is engine components, says it could meet the mandated 50% requirement of local production for defence contracts within India. "We can deliver on our commitments as and when we see more orders," said Alok Nanda, General Manager, (India engineering operations) at GE.

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...es-collaboration-for-amca-117021401120_1.html

Can the revived kaveri engine power LCA mk2?