Aakar Patel: Congress standard-bearer for "Ashokan secularism"

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by LurkerBaba, May 19, 2012.

  1. LurkerBaba

    LurkerBaba Staff Administrator

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    Sonia Gandhi > Ashoka :troll:

    ----------
    Some extracts:


    Why the Congress represents Indian values best



    full article: Why the Congress represents Indian values best - Columns - livemint.com
     
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  3. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    :pound: :pound:

    This should go under the "Stupid and [not even] Funny" category.
     
  4. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    In his attempt to malign the middle class Hindu, this genius shoots himself in the foot and actually does the opposite of what he intends.

    He says hate of Muslims is idealogical, dogmatic whereas that of the Hindu is atmost reactive to the offences perperated on him. Not bad as it is standard human instinct.

    To top everything, this piece of wisdom just made by heart stop a bit marvelling at the sheer intellectual genius he is.

     
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  5. parijataka

    parijataka Senior Member Senior Member

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    This guy is a certified nutcase.
     
  6. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Why the Congress represents Indian values best - Aakarar Patel

    Publishing this in full
    ==
    We are a Congress-minded nation.

    In saying this, I don’t mean we’re a nation of Congress voters, though that also is not inaccurate. Other than in one election, 1977, Indians have always voted for the Congress more than for any other party.

    What I mean is that Indian values are best, and I would even say, only represented by the Congress. These values are religious accommodation, comfort with racial and linguistic diversity, acceptance of caste in politics, comfort in dynasty and a preference for compromise over principle. This flexibility has kept India democratic, and it is a Congress trait. The party also represents the middle-class consensus which views India as a great civilizing force, and seeks a nurturing of India’s cultural aesthetic.

    In Pakistan’s The Express Tribune, Khaled Ahmed wrote on 8 April: “The Indian Constitution informs the attitude of the Indian middle class, which is tolerant of secularism.” This is true, and as an idea it is owned by the Congress.

    Unlike the Tories and Labour in the UK or Republicans and Democrats in the US, we don’t have division by ideology in Hindu middle-class society.

    Woman power: BSP chief Mayawati is a terrific orator. Keshav Singh/Hindustan Times

    Woman power: BSP chief Mayawati is a terrific orator. Keshav Singh/Hindustan Times
    Writer Arvind Rajagopal made this point by asking who, if the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) was the Hindu right, was the Hindu left? There’s no such thing, of course.

    The BJP thinks it is an ideological party but it doesn’t have any real ideology. The party’s three ideological thrusts are all negative: Muslims shouldn’t keep their family law, Muslims shouldn’t keep Ram Janmabhoomi, Muslims shouldn’t keep separate status through Article 370 in Kashmir.

    Ideology is something you stand for, not against. The CPM is an ideological party. The BJP is a party of resentful Hindus (symbolized by the face of a permanently sour Arun Jaitley).

    We can observe a demonstration of this in the collapse of the Ayodhya movement. Its supporters were not in favour of the temple, but against the usurping mosque. Once the mosque disappeared, so did the movement of which we now hear little. This flaw is in the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) gene and was passed on.

    Muslim concession always deflates the BJP, and this explains the party’s decline, which will continue. The middle-class Hindu’s bigotry against the Muslim is reactive. His hatred is not ideological or dogmatic, such as the Muslim’s for the Jew. His bigotry responds to offences against him real and imagined—Somnath temple or Partition.

    Because the bigotry is reactive and not ideological, the Congress has been able to accommodate it where required almost as efficiently as the BJP.

    An irreligious Congress such as Jawaharlal Nehru’s does not put off Hindus, but it thinks it cannot afford to take the chance. This opportunism also aligns the Congress morally with Indians.

    Many hate Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi now but historically, the Congress has never been above using a little slaughter to appease Hindus, like in Ahmedabad in 1969 under Hitendrabhai Desai. During the 1992-93 riots, when Surat burned, Gujarat was ruled not by the BJP but by Chimanbhai Patel. When Delhi’s Hindus turned against Sikhs in 1984, Rajiv Gandhi looked away.

    Sonia Gandhi is one of the Congress’ finest leaders. Subhav Shukla/PTI

    Sonia Gandhi is one of the Congress’ finest leaders. Subhav Shukla/PTI
    It is only under Sonia Gandhi that the party has again become the standard-bearer for Ashokan secularism. She will go down in history as the finest Congress leader along with Nehru.

    Pakistan’s Ahmed separates Congress voters from BJP voters in this fashion: “Many factors are common between the city-dwelling middle classes of India and Pakistan. The middle class lives in the city and votes rightwing. The Bharatiya Janata Party gets its vote in the city; the Congress party gets it from the rural areas.”

    This is how many people see it. There are two problems with this formulation. The first is that the Congress, in its various forms, is currently dominant in four out of six metros. The BJP has only Bangalore.

    Secondly, the BJP’s appeal for its voters lies in caste rather than ideology. For example, it is a Lingayat party in Karnataka. Its problems there have come because the RSS does not accept this fact and denies Lingayat champion B.S. Yeddyurappa his due. Ahmed’s observation that the middle class aligns with the BJP is valid only so far as middle class can be conflated with upper castes, seen as BJP voters. Middle-class expansion is today happening in India because of the rapid entry of lower castes. This is actually lethal for the BJP and good for the Congress. Unlike in Pakistan, India’s middle-class expansion will make it more moderate.

    There is a reason why the Congress continually attracts young and urbane talent, but the BJP doesn’t. The reason is the alignment of the Congress with the broad Indian sentiment, which makes it naturally attractive and competitive. The open-minded BJP leader like Manohar Parrikar senses this and must often distance himself from the RSS position. In the Congress, Nitin Gadkari would have made even district president with difficulty.

    I predict the decline of the BJP and the fragmentation of its state units into regional parties based on caste. This breaking away will paradoxically make these units more acceptable in coalitions and more coherent. The signs are visible in Rajasthan and Karnataka, where Hindutva has become irrelevant. In Gujarat, the party will collapse after the autocrat exits.

    The Congress under the Gandhis, and later the Vadra-Gandhis, will remain our one great national party.

    I nailed my colours to the mast in my column of 17 May 2009, but it is appropriate in a piece such as this that I again disclose my allegiance.

    I am a Bahujan Samaj Party (BSP) voter. I was persuaded by a newspaper article. In 1996, writer Meenal Baghel reported a BSP rally in Uttar Pradesh for TheIndian Express. She described rain, a large crowd, wet, and the bamboo barricades it was straining.

    Mayawati mounted the stage and said: “Chamari hoon, kunwari hoon, tumhari hoon” (I’m low-caste, single, yours). What a terrific line. I was seduced immediately.

    The BSP is corrupt, true. But it has not butchered Sikhs or set Muslim children on fire. It has more legitimate grievance with India than any other group (Gandhi said of B.R. Ambedkar: “That he does not break our heads is an act of self-restraint on his part”). But it doesn’t extract justice through collective punishment. It is pragmatic with its social tormentors, a quality I admire.

    It doesn’t share the Hindu middle-class fantasy that India will become a world power tomorrow, though most of us are illiterate and hungry and will remain so in our generation, and the next and the next.

    I have sometimes wondered if I do right in voting BSP, for I am greatly attracted to Manmohan Singh, and because I have lived in states where BSP candidates usually forfeit their deposits.

    But I have never felt guilt.

    Why the Congress represents Indian values best - Columns - livemint.com
     
  7. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Why isn't she a fine Congress leader ? Mind you we aren't talking about national interests, governance demagoguery or corruption.

    Indeed under Sonia Gandhi has been rather secular.

    =

    "More like standard Hindu bigot instinct" :troll:

    I'd have to agree with somewhat with him here.

    Hindus and Sikhs possibly cannot hate Muslims because of any ideology.
    Hindus with time will have to learn forgive any past transgressions committed by "some" long dead Muslims and get on with the times.

    And I don't think he is maligning the Hindu middle class, this notion is shared by other classes to.

    The man has offered his arguments, and he may well be right.

    Congress has mastered the art of cult leadership, the art of appeasing all, and have learnt to kept regional satraps at bay.
    BJP on the other hand is in disarray. The Delhi leaders don't have a mass base, the regional satraps are breaking away.
    There is no other national party.
     
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  8. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Re: We are a Congress-minded nation.

    Indeed we are. Anecdotally, there was a thread sometime back on DFI, and even the most virulent far rightist turned out to be politically/economically centre-leftist aka Congressi
     
  9. anoop_mig25

    anoop_mig25 Senior Member Senior Member

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    oh so they bypassed INDRIA and RAJVI gandhi .are yarr indiaria and rjvi gandhi kuch to respect do argumentative and stupid indians :frusty::frusty::frusty::frusty::frusty: . which young leaders has congress has other then those son-daughters-of ex MPS i am yet to find a real talent.most of rahuls youth brigade have been imported from congress student wing and we seen one talent who proposed cenroship of media.

    and because of lack of this local startup that congress is in mess todays in most of states . eg maharashtra where even having a good image cheif minister they lost BMC elections and like manmohan sing none of MLA s respect him , they view him as an outsider imposed by delhi and i am sure whenever election for local assembly would happen congress would replace him with some one who is local in order to get some votes .and they too had good image shila dixit but then even lost delhi MDC election , even after divding it
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2012
  10. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    If Sonia Gandhi is secular then so is any leader of BJP,

    If you think Digvijay, Salman Khurshid etc let loose their volleys without the tacit understanding and approval of the party high command [Sonia] then you are wrong.


    More like standard human instinct. Not all are born a Buddha or as a Adi Shankara. If someone wrongs me or my community I will most certainly hate him and 99 out of 100 humans will do the same. It is genetically hardwired into us.


    That is good since idealogical hate is the worst since nothing can cure it except complete annihilation of the opposing party.

    I'm afraid that is not so simple unless conciliatory gestures are extended from Muslim community also.

    Let me switch off the political correctness for a moment. Consider a family goes to Mathura and the child asks."Ma why there is a mosque nearby... why is it called Janmasthan idgah..why is there some board about some destruction of temple". The moment the mother says what happened there that mosque might become a symbol of hate and destruction.

    You have to read Aakar Patel to know his views.

    What he says is the truth and I dont dispute that. That Gandhi-Vadra clan will continue to rule Congress and possibly India. But he makes it sound as if it is good which I object to.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2012
  11. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    It it not a question if whether Sonia Gandhi is secular or not, but under her stewardship Congress has been acting as a secularl party. You have to give the diablo her due.

    Nobody is saying they are paragons of Secularism either.

    BJP's individual leaders might be secular, or even anti-Hindu but that's not the point.

    If your co-religionists killed 3000 of my co-religionists in 1984, doesn't mean I hate all of your co-religionists in 2012. I find this notion absurd.

    Neither am I a victim of the notion, that I am somehow the sole saviour of my community.

    This chauvisim or tribal mentality doesn't affect 99 out of 100 humans, else we wouldn't have seen the European Union, or the Japan-US relation, or even Indo-Uk infact the modern world would've ceased to exist.

    Further, being a subscriber to Dharmic philosophy, aka karma and reincarnation, it doesn't make sense to hate other communities for past transgressions. It is entirely possible that you are a reincarnation of those rivals who butchered your present community members. If the texts are to be believed that is usually true.

    I am not saying you turn the other cheek at present but what happened years ago ought not to matter. Pashtunwali and other codes of honours are considered archaic in modern times.

    What is hardwired into humans is to seek fairness and justice. A liar doesn't like being lied, a thief doesn't like being stolen from, a rapist doesn't like his kin being raped etc.

    Desiring justice is not bad, and forgiving is certainly good.

    Actually no. Ideological hate is still understandable.

    As Messiah quoted Hasan Nisar in an earlier thread,
    khud ko badlte nahi, quran badal dete hai.

    Ideological interpretations are subjected to personal bias and can be modified. But what if something is hardwired into us can it be changed ;) ?

    What if another child goes to Tilak Vihar in Delhi, and sees Sikh orphans, and then asks where are the parents of these orphans ? and the mother says they were killed by Hindus during the riots. So then this particular refugee colony becomes a symbol of hate and destruction ?

    PS : In bother cases the mother of the child is stupid for raising the kid in such a manner.

    Aakar Patel is entitled to his views, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    Certainly Congress is not all that bad, atleast not as a political party.
    It is the world's oldest political party, and it has ruled India for decades, and still is consistently one of the biggest party around. And its national, secular character means as long as it is in power we shouldn't really be worried about political machinations to break the country.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2012
  12. balai_c

    balai_c Regular Member

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    ^^ Indian version of Zaid Hamid (PBUH). Wow, the author must have switched off his brain, and wrote using something else!!
     
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  13. KS

    KS Bye bye DFI Veteran Member

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    No they have not or you really have a twisted sense of the word "secularism".


    So what are you saying or what is your point. ?

    Except for 1) the small thing you got your revenge by killing Indira 2) Killing of Hindus by Khalistani militants in Punjab 3) Honoring the killers by keeping their photos in every Gurudwara 4)Forgetting the simple fact that it was a political riots engineered by the very same Congress party that you defend here. 5) It was not my co-religionists who killed yours..for starters Jagdish tytler is not even a Hindu and so could have been a vast number of the rioters. They were congress men of all hues killing your co-religionists.

    Sometimes having a little memory is better than forgiving. It helps you prepare for the future rather than make the same mistake all over again or encourage the other to commit the same crime.

    Also even for argument sake if I agree with your assertion, one isolated event cannot be compared with a multitude of events spanning centuries. What you just attempted to do was equating chalk with cheese.

    Re, your point that you are not a victim of such thinking, [taking it at face value] I appreciate you. But you must also understand that not many within your own community would share your views. I know Sikhs who differ with me on that issue. So lets just say exceptions dont make rule. Most of us are normal humans susceptible to emotions on reading events of the past.

    You have a very simplistic view of things. What happened in EU was a political re-alignment and even their problem was basically political in nature. Sub-continent is a much more complicated place.

    We are all tribals by heart.


    Desiring closure is different from desiring revenge. We all got to know the difference. It takes two hands to clap.


    It can be if corrective actions are taken. It is perhaps easier than correcting an idealogical bias when you are not allowed to question the "final and perfect" idealogy in the first place.



    Well then the mother is lying - through her teeth. If the mother wants to tell her beta the truth, let her tell that Congress men killed his parents. Whereas in the other case the mother is only telling the truth as to what happened to the temple. Aurangazeb's firmans bear testimony to that ;)

    Also the mother is obligated to go into the background of the riots and how it all started right from the moment Indira Gandhi started supporting Bhindranwale in Punjab for political point scoring and it was not a religious thing in the first place.. Now what would be the backkground of demolishing the temples in Kashi, Mathura and hundreds of others..that the Vasthu Shastra was not quite correct and there should be a re-alignment ?

    Cant say for the latter as I don't subscribe to whitewashing history mentality in order to maintain a mythical harmony. True harmony can only come when all of us squarely face upto history..not by sweeping under the rug certain "uncomfortable" truths. They serve no purpose except exploding later in time, bigger in magnitude and destruction.


    First Congress is not the worlds oldest party and second I really want to know the definition of the word "secular".
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2012
  14. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    One of the best marketing lines of last decade ! :hippo:

    --

    @topic

    Gandhis are high on Buddhist grass these days, thanks to Priyanka :D

    And Sonia is one of the finest leader of Congress without any doubt.

    Not to forget that she is the only powerful leader in India today.
     
  15. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    What a load of crap in the article. Aakar Patel is looking for some oxygen that he seeks through non-sense article. It's incorrigible.

    BJP won Delhi second time in a row. (All 3 MCD - South, North and East)
    BJP+SS won fourth time in a row in Mumbai.
    BJP also ruling Bangalore.

    In Chennai, It's AIADMK and congress is insignificant player.
    In Kolkatta, It's Trinamool Congress and congress is insignificant player.
    In Hyderabad, it's MIM.

    Therefore, BJP ruling 3, Others 3 and Congress NONE.

    Again,

    He also added that Congress is rising and BJP declining among Middle-class Hindus. Another idiotic and false statement.

    Majority of Middle-Class Hindus live in Cities/Towns. BJP remained No. 1 party with few exceptional due to anti-incumbency factor. From Jaipur to Patna, Guwahati to Ahmadabad, Bangalore to Jammu, Delhi to Mumbai, Kanpur to Indore, Chandigarh to Nagpur.

    Even two Urban district of thiruvananthapuram (Kerala) and Hyderabad (AP), BJP got sizable vote even when BJP has negligible presence in rural and other districts of these two states.

    What a shameless congressi boot-licker!! Yes, crying for batla, supporting reservation based on religion is surely secularism. She didn't expelled idiots like Salman khurshid, Diggy but actually promoted who have one point policy i.e Muslim Vote Bank politics. Protecting Sajjan kumar and giving his brother LS seat is Ashokan secularism. :wave:

    Sometime back, Sonia Gandhi's surprised absence at an event making Vandemataram Centenary in New Delhi (Sept. 07, 2006) has shocked congress workers across the country. Congress leader Ahmed Patel however defended Sonia by saying that the song cannot be forced on any one, and her refusal to sing Vande Mataram should not be made into an issue! Good secularism indeed! I can make many points on Congress secularism!
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2012
  16. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    I agree with Patel that Congress is "Ashokan" secular.

    This is exactly the straw man argument I knew was coming. I don't subscribe to your allegation or the broad brush stroke that all 20 million Sikhs think alike.

    1. Fyi Indira Gandhi's death led to riots not the other way around. And frankly many Sikhs didn't seek revenge against "Hindus" nor they still do.

    OTOH as Aakar Patel argues you some Hindus hate Muslims because of what a few Muslim rulers did half a millennium back.

    So going by your logical if the revenge of a few Sikhs isn't satisfied then they are justified in hating Hindus, seeking revenge and asking for an independent state ?

    And comparing what the Muslim invaders did is very different to what happened after India became independent and came under a rule of law.

    The barbaric acts at the time were considered acceptable, today such acts are considered abominable.


    2. What do you mean by Killing of hindus by Khalistani militants ? Are you implying that 20 million Sikhs were part of Khalistan movement, and wanted to exterminate all Hindus ?

    Explain the killings of Sikhs at the hands of Khalistanis, then or the failure of the Khalistan movement ?

    3. Who has honored the killers of Indira Gandhi, 20million Sikhs or a particular regional Sikh body aiming to appease the orthodox ?

    I don't honor the killers of Gandhi fyi nor do a hundred thousand others. And a few who do, do not because they condone their action and the ensuing riots, but purely because they have not been given justice.

    And before you equate demands of justice, what happened during Muslim rule and what happened after independence are 2 different era under 2 different sets of rules.

    4. Irresp the riots whom the riots were organized, didn't Hindus kill Sikhs ?

    If you hate muslims for the action of a few foreign muslim invader rulers, then 20million Sikhs must hate all Hindus ?

    5. Please don't insult my intelligence by claiming that a vast number of rioters were not Hindus.

    Sikh history is actually quite the opposite. Yet Sikhs have survived and thrived inspite of severe persecution. In fact Guru Gobind Singh was ready to forgive Aurangzeb, after what he had done to his family, and to the Sikhs.

    This is insulting, you believe the blood of Hindus more valuable than the blood of Sikhs ?

    A miniscule amount of people have such feelings, else there will be multiple wars going on, on the basis of caste, region, religion, linguistic identity etc.

    Our constitution/govt was made strictly because we have no place for base instincts in our present society.

    Simplistic ? You hate Muslims for what a few Muslim rulers did centuries back, and yet you are forgetting World War 1 and 2, and the Cold WAr ?

    We are evolutionary by nature. Our present society, culture, thinking is anything but tribal.

    I agree.

    I don't claim to be an expert on Islam.

    So basically Hindus who killed Sikhs were not Hindus but were Congress men, using the same logic, the Muslims who committed the barbaric acts were not Muslims but were the soldiers of Mughal Army etc. And as such the Child must learn to hate these soldiers and not muslims.

    I bear no ill-will towards others, for eg I don't go around hating Muslims for executing my Gurus, for stealing my ancestral home of millenia, nor for what they did to my community. I can't blame the whole community for the actions of a few. One reaps as one sows.

    My bad I meant one of the world's oldest. If you really want to know, then you will find out one day.
     
  17. iNDiAN.96

    iNDiAN.96 Nationalist Senior Member

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    After reading his articles I regret being Patel now.. :troll:
     
  18. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Its the congress which damaged every minority community be it sikhs or be it muslims or be it anglo indians.Congress is BJP hidden in false secular cloak for muslims to escape from this betrayal of hindu politicians, they have to form there own muslim party.even the hindus who are in politics or in civil societies or in media who are self professed secular,are the biggest hidden communalists.so minority groups cant trust any party in india who have majority of hindus in it.
     
  19. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    What kind of bastard you are ----ing puki ? Pakis who raped, killed and converted Millions of Hindus. Even didn't spared Bengalis, Balochs and Shias. Pukis would be last country to talk about secularism.

    Congress president is a Christian, Prime Minister is a Sikh and who knows might be President would be also Muslim. How many secular countries are there which promote/give such post which constitutes merely 2% population but then rascals Islamist like you won't understand because you are the one who are on killing spree for 2% minority in land of shit!!

    I wish Muslims starts their own party in India. Indeed, there are already few like IUDF, MIM, IUML and even Christian party like KC, GSP and even Sikh Party Akali Dal. In that way, Hindus also have few parties!

    Yes, Congress is communal but not Pro-Hindu, but Pro-Muslims whose president cry for terrorist and recommend religious based reservation which is unconstitutional.
     
  20. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    sonia Gandhi never clamied that she is christian after marrying Rajiv.
    Manmohan singh-a seat warmer PM to be controlled by sonia.
    Muslim president -doesnt mean much as it is rubber stamp post.

    And congress is center to right party which always mudered muslims only reason being there are majority hindus in it.
     
  21. Galaxy

    Galaxy Elite Member Elite Member

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    Who told you, She never claimed that she is Christian ? She did. Even she signed a paper before entering Tirupati temple as per rule for Non-Hindus. Sometime back, even BBC published a piece of news saying She is Christian.

    If She is not why she doesn't come in open and say "I am Hindu". She will never do that!!

    ManMohan Singh is a Sikh and that is what matters. No one has problem with that but still He is Sikh and not Hindu!

    Even Defense Minister is Christian ( AK Antony). Planning commissionaire chief is also Sikh. Even next Army Chief will be also Sikh. Do remember, Sikhs and Christians are just 2% each.

    How the hell a Muslim will become PM by winning election when they are majority or 40%+ in only 20 odd Lok Sabha seat out of 545 ? Trolling ?? PM is not decided by religion but the one who gets support of 272 MP's! Still, Many Muslims become Vice-President, President and CM of many states. There are many ministers today. Even Election commissionaire is Muslim. India is a secular country but Islamist like you won't understand who believe in Killing Non-Muslims, Jihad and spreading terrorism everywhere! A truly Islamic terrorist republic of pukistan!

    And Congress is Centre to Left and not right. you know shit!
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2012

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