A Pakistani Samson Option : Destroy South Asia If Pakistan Is Threatened

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by Pathogen, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. Pathogen

    Pathogen Regular Member

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    The Pakistani Samson option

    It is my opinion that the best nuclear policy that Pakistan can adopt is threaten to attack with nuclear weapons not just India if Pakistan's existence is threatened but other Asian states aswell especially other Hindu majority population states like Nepal aswell as others like Sri Lanka, Burma, Bhutan the entire South Asian continent and South East Asian continent, Not Sparing even countries like Loas, Vietnam, Thailand. Also the Middle East with Israel being destroyed. Pakistan has 150+ Nuclear weapons and is on course to overtake even the established nuclear powers like France and the UK, The more nuclear weapons that Pakistan builds the greater flexibility and luxury it will have to attack other targets.

    If Pakistan made it clear that it would retaliate with nuclear weapons against not just India, but also Nepal, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Burma, Afghanistan, Laos, and the entire South and South-East Asia it would force the other Asian states to force India into restraint. Of course India will still bare the 90% of the retaliation but the capitals of other Asian states should not be spared.

    This in my opinion would give Pakistan a key psychological weapon in the region and increase its clout as an Asian power, Not just that the other states that would otherwise remain neutral or pro-India in the conflict will be dragged in and therefore forced to restrain India from military adventurism.

    Pakistan must behave like the wild dog of Asia too dangerous to bother, Only then can there be peace. I also firmly believe that Pakistan should leave both the chemical and biological weapons convention as they are discriminatory to Pakistan's legitimate security needs.

    For the time being Pakistan should limit this "Samson Option" to South Asia but extend that to South East Asia and Israel as Pakistan builds more nuclear weapons and expands the range of its missles and attack aircraft to deliver the deadly Pakistani payload, Further Pakistan must pursue thermonuclear weapons and tritium in larger quantities.

    Pakistan needs to make it clear to Asia: You can have a Pakistan as part of Asia or you can have no Asia at all, Pakistan if threatened will reduce the lay seige to the entire continent which will result in not just the death of Asian nations but ultimately the death of the Hindu and Sikh religions aswell given that they will be taking the brunt of Pakistani ire.

    I look forward to hearing your opinion on a Pakistani Samson Option.
     
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  3. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    Pakistan can not do anything of this sort. If you think that other nations comprises of cowards who'll cower before these empty threats then you are just deluding yourself.
    The day Pakis openly declare their intent to use nukes not just against India but the whole region, they'll lose whatever little support they have, even from China which would think twice before supporting a in your own words a "wild dog" in order to save face in the international fora.

    Now lets stretch the scenario a little more.
    Pakistan declares that it intents to use nuclear weapons and biological and even chemical weapons. All the nations condemn this behavior and the SC imposes heavy sanctions on it. World Bank and IMF refuse it loans, China refuses to trade with Pakistan along with the other nations, Pakistan desperately mobilizes its forces and deploys its strategic assets to threaten the world into accepting it(as you put it), the world reacts strongly and India launches preemptive strikes along with US and Israel to negotiate the impending threat of nuclear strike on itself. Several cities across Pakistan are hit including Karachi and Rawalpindi with nuclear tipped missiles. Pakistani launch sites are taken out and a few of its missiles are shot down by BMDs. China condemns the action calling it brash and harsh but does not step into the feud. Pakistan surrenders unconditionally as most of it leaders have been killed by MOSSAD while they were hiding in Saudi Arabia. Civil War breaks out in Pakistan and Balochistan secedes.
    At the end of the war there is no entity called Pakistan, Islam is once gain the religion of peace and we live happily ever after.
    This is what I think of the Pakistani Samson Option. :lol::lol::lol::lol:
     
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  4. Pathogen

    Pathogen Regular Member

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    I think you are overly intellectually challenged to warrant a proper response. I think it would suit China just fine if India and Pakistan and the other Asian states destroyed each other. An Asia without India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh will only benefit China.

    Lastly, Pakistan will retaliate 90% against Pakistan but take out a few other capitals aswell. Im not talking of a mere declartory policy im suggesting this as a complete operational policy. "The Destruction of South Asia" Policy, Essentially its taking Asia hostage and saying "You can have Pakistan as part of Asia or no Asia at all".

    As for Israel, Pakistan simply needs to proliferate more nuclear blueprints and supplies to Iran to keep Israel pre-occupied with the Iranian threat, Also more blueprints for North Korea to keep the US and Japan focused elsewhere is a good policy. Obviously this can be done discreetly via another "A Q Khan Scandal" but its actually government policy to proliferate to Anti -American states and States that will keep Israel bogged down.

    The fear of loosing not just one Hindu state but all Hindu states including Nepal will prod the Hinduvadis in India to seek a more reconcilatory tone towards Pakistan and accept its right to exist. India leaders will be powerless to the Pakistani retaliation and they will cave in like they did to the creation of Pakistan in 1947 without any violence.

    That being said I dont think Pakistan should "waste" too many nuclear weapons on other states, The total destruction of India and therefore the demolition and destruction of the Hindu and Sikh religions must remain paramount.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  5. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    Thats why they'll just watch while the Pukes die of radiation poisoning.

    What part of preemptive does you pea sized Paki brain not understand?

    Hahahahahahahaha...The Israelis would hunt that mofo AQ Khan down before the Pukes even so much as think of using another proxy like him again. You retards had the advantage of surprise the last time you tried that trick, no one thought you'd stoop that low, they had never come across a Paki perhaps.

    Lol..To destroy Hinduism and Sikhism you'd have to nuke US, Canada, UK, UAE etc etc etc.. as well. While we only have to take out your shithole of a country and thats the end of Pakistaniyat for you.

    If you think you can goad me or anyone else here to take your bait and post something derogatory about Islam here, you are barking up the wrong tree dawg.
     
  6. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    Have you heard of WWII? You should study it. Very closely. In 1943, when Germany was losing on all fronts, Goebbels made a speech in which he declared that if Germany went down, it would take all of Europe with it. "Totale Krieg!" he roared, aka Total War, which means the mobilization of each and every single German resource, man, woman and child to fight the enemy forces.

    WWII resulted in 60 million casualties, out of which Russia suffered around 25 million. Yet, both Russia and Germany survived. Sure, after the war was over, for 4 decades, Germany was occupied and looted by foreign countries. If Pakistan wants to be the Germany of WW3, you are welcome. India may take some damage from your Lilliputan 20 kT nukes, but in the end, unlike Germany, there will be no Pakistan. Pakistan will be absorbed back into mother India, and you and your Pakjabi brothers will be slaughtered en-masse, like the Germans did with the Jews.

    India can take 10 Paki nukes or even a hundred, and still survive, but 10 thermonuclear Indian nukes are enough to extinguish the state of Pakistan. So better think of the consequences before you act.
     
  7. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    Mayfair,

    There exist a Pakistani samson option, not like what this person says, one of the reason India doesnt want US to go to War with Pakistan and cross certain thresholds , and constant harping for stable pakistan from our side.


    It is also quite stupid to compare a nuclear samson option to that of some non-nuclear german world war 2 doctrine
     
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  8. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    ^^Total war isn't a WW2 German doctrine. It is based on Clausewitz's theory of absolute war:

    Total war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And nuclear or non-nuclear doesn't matter. WW2 lasted 6 years. An India-Pak war will hardly last more than 6 weeks, as both are third rate military powers and will run out of ammo and spare parts, with no replacements available.

    I doubt an Indo-Pak nuke war will result in 60 million casualties like WW2. :rolleyes:
     
  9. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    An Indo-Pak nuke war will not result in the destruction of either India or Pakistan, though Pakistan will suffer comparatively more than India. The fact is that nukes (especially in the Indo-Pak context) are extremely overrated. The next Indo-Pak War will not be decided by Agnis and Prithvis but by the T-90 and Su-30MKI.
     
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  10. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    The problem with your scenario is that you are trying to apply 70 year old sensibilities towards war to the current time. Pakistan is a failed paranoid state. There is no difference of Taliban or ISI or Islamist for us, since they are one and the same as India is concerned. In a situation where the State machinery of Pakistan, its Army and its control, especially of the Punjab territory is in question, and faced with the complete destruction of the idea and territorial integrity of Pakistan, they will launch nukes at all targets, they consider within their reach. Which includes India ofcourse and Israel, and American targets in the vicinity.

    India is quite aware of this, it is one of the primary reasons, they dont push Pakistan beyond a point.

    Indo-Pak nuclear war would make World War 2, look like some child-fight. There is difference in the type of destruction caused by a conventional war and a nuclear war. Usually people who dont know the difference are the one's who monger for war between two nuclear states.

    As long as India cannot stop even a rock thrown from Pakistan by various means such as ABM etc.India doesnt want any country to cross the nuclear threshold of Pakistan.
     
  11. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    Why would you so ? There are 110-150 nukes on both sides. they are not for show, atleast for Pakistan.The moment the threshold is crossed, and it is kept low by Pakistan on puropose, to limit India's options to the bare minimum, they might not launch at the crossing the said threshold, but the moment control structures of Pakistan's state crumble, they will launch nukes. India knows it quite well, therefore the advent of Cold Start.
     
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  12. civfanatic

    civfanatic Retired Moderator

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    I am talking with Cold Start in mind. We are not aiming to destroy their state control structures so Pakis have no legitimate excuse to use nukes; if they still use them, then India gets a free ticket to destroy the Pakistani state. That is, India can revert from the Cold Start doctrine to the Sundarji doctrine based on how Pakistan reacts.
     
  13. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    Jawbone of an ass

    I have an opinion about you. You are like Jack.

     
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  14. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    You are considering the view, that if India starts a war, what if it isnt? What if it is something internal? What if it is the USA and we have nothing to do with it? I think we wont be talking about 'samson option' when we are the starting the war, we are aware of the thresholds, or atleast we hope.

    When faced with incredible odd's, its better to be a crazed person. The fear of irrational reaction in itself is a rational strategy to be employed against countries who are rational and have something to loose. The success of a strategy lies in the fact, that Pakistan can actually force India to act in its interest to stop a complete US attack. Now, Who would have thunk that! Pakistan's ambiguity and opacity on response itself is its greatest weapon. The reason why we did not cross LoC while in 65 we did. The reason we did not respond to 26/11 or Parliament attacks.

    It is stupid of us to brush it off as saying this is not a possibility, the military planners and politicians dont think so, if they did. Our reactions and our responses to several transgressions would have been very different. Our call for stable Pakistan is not an empty one, we do mean it. We want to strategize a scenario where we achieve destruction of pakistan, without the nuclear missiles ever taking off. How do we do that? What are complex steps we have to take , to achieve such as paradigm? ABM, snatch and grab of nukes, complete economic destruction, internal fissures, intelligence, and complete outside world isolation etc.


    I think Indians cannot fathom the fact, that Pakistani's have them by the balls, and all the conventional superiority we posses have been neutered, which would give us a meaningful result. There is every indication that Indian government as well as the world is very clueless on how to handle a Pakistan with a gun to its head as well as others it can reach, all the while stabbing itself.
     
  15. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    Regarding Cold Start

    1. Pakistani's will drastically reduce their nuclear threshold at the advent Cold Start in their borders. Goal Posts will be shifted creating confusion and world panic
    2. Pakistan is conventionally strong enough to hold India for sometime, to the point they can actually legitimize atleast in their own head for the use of Nukes.
    3. India is not ready to take even ONE nuke attack on any of its population centers. Our Massive retaliation will only scare them, if we are ready to take the first punch. Which we arent.
    4. India has no idea on how Pakistani reaction is going to be, them being literally paranoid is not helping either.


    If it is Pak-US War, even when we have nothing to do with it. Expect bombs to fly to New Delhi. That is the very nature of Pakistan, New Delhi knows this quite well. Which is why our Afghan strategy is extremely important for us. We need to squeeze Pakistan in such a way, that Indian conventional army can make some dent and then head to negotiation table. Today with Pakistan only face a threat from India, its quite harder for us.
     
  16. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    Pathogen wrote
    Samsung is better today than Samson.

    Samsung Pakistan
     
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  17. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    Ewald,

    I personally dont think this is not a plausible scenario, I would like to hear your views and thoughts on it, also ofcourse the Brigadier's too.
     
  18. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    My view is that such a policy would be more insane than Iran's. The scenario as posted by Pathogen is clearly meant to provoke and get attention. I don't know why DFI tolerates the rantings of armchair warmongers on both sides. Fortunately there is otherwise plenty of reasoned and professional discussion.

    If Pakistan actually adopted such a policy, it would have to be sanctioned by the international community to an extreme; quarantined in fact. How appropriate is the name Pathogen here. Is his flag Aruba, by the way, the country of serial killers of female tourists?
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2011
  19. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Completely flawed idea. Pakistan cant do that.

    You said this
    In India the old saying goes "paagal kutte ko goli mar deni chhahiye". Thats exactly what will happen if Pakistan chose to be a wild/mad dog. Actually when you think of such a thing, you just declared your own self as a nuclear terrorist state.

    So no, It is not in Pakistans interest to take on the whole of south and south east Asia with a 150 vintage bombs the design of which China gave.
     
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  20. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    add china to the list it will work even faster.
     
  21. mahesh

    mahesh Regular Member

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    there best first and final f*cking option is NUKE
     

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