A Kashmiri Indian in Pakistan: “It is a magical land of freedom”

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by Neo, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

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    A Kashmiri Indian in Pakistan: “It is a magical land of freedom”
    By Mohammad Tabish


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    After long documentation procedures and surveillance checks, we had the privilege of walking down the road to Lahore. PHOTO: MOHAMMAD TABISH

    It is said we were born twins at the stroke of midnight long ago, when brows were wet with the anticipation of liberation. A 100-year-old subjugation was coming to an end. At the stroke of the midnight hour, when the world slept, we opened our eyes in horror. In a sudden cry, the veil of fantasy fell down to a novel reality of madness and chaos.

    Our birth was not a surprise, it was professed by soothsayers of all kind and they knew our fates very well. The umbilical cords got tied and in the darkness of the background, the serpent sang his poisonous lullaby, slowly intoxicating our minds and then disappeared into the velvet of the night.

    That was when an era saw its end and the rules of power politics were changing diagrams. Some nations disappeared from the map while new boundaries emerged. Man had become savage. The secret was kept and we were separated, only to mark a cold history of mass bloodshed, rape and plunder and here I am today, contemplating our brutal history a few hundred miles away from my own self.

    The sky was spotless and the sun fiercely shone over us while the bus sped with its diesel vigour through the age-old grand trunk road. The road seemed to be endless. Our sweat-sodden bodies headed towards Attari and I was, as usual, going through my poetry fits. Each one of us had fictionalised his own Pakistan and had I not used my amazing power of intuition, I would have never been able to know how all of us were heading towards different destinations. The chatter in the bus revealed that nobody knew anything about Pakistan and everybody knew everything about Pakistan.

    Are you raising your eyebrows at this fallacy? Let me explain.

    All our lives we’ve been injected with state-centred discourse that dictates that the two countries are very different. We are ‘natural enemies’. Since the ‘beginning of time’, India and Pakistan have existed on polar ends of the world spectrum. Spoonful of national fervour has been painfully swallowed by every Indian before going to sleep. So we thought we knew everything that there is to know about Pakistan.

    We couldn’t have been more wrong.

    The dying day breathed its last breath and the sky turned into a delicate crimson. Slumber took me and my unconscious mind busied itself manufacturing dreams that were ethereal and green.

    I hugged my passport to myself, afraid I would lose it. I would search my pockets in panic. I was haunted by my absent-mindedness. I would always find it in one of my small pockets, just a little dirtier than before. I could not imagine losing this document which allowed me a safe passage under the scrutiny of a vigilant soldier who, for some reason, used to frown a lot.

    Should I not tell you my irony, which is only mine, as I am haunted by my Kashmiri identity, where official scrutiny is a monster that follows you around. I take solace in my fair complexion back home because I can be easily mistaken for a foreigner. In my country, white men make no enemies. They are cherished and considered to be clean. They speak fluent English, therefore, I have learnt to shroud myself with crisp yeses, noes and sirs.

    After long documentation procedures and surveillance checks, we had the privilege of walking down the road to Lahore. We deliberately chose walking through the borders on foot, drinking its ecstasies sip by sip, and there it was in the shadows of Gandhi and Jinnah, a small piece of barren land which is so ill fated that nobody chose its ownership except Bishan Singh in the obscene mind of Manto, who is not sure who is a better writer, “god or he?”. The no-man’s land and its discrete barrenness, the scar of 1947, the epitome of insanity – I felt like I was walking through the intricacies of history. The delight of entering Pakistan brought no rush in my blood, my hormones were calm and fantasies remained fantasies. It was the same hot day, same people, same piece of land; nothing did change except flags and nationalities.

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    Our Pakistan visit stretched for a whole week. We spent most of our time in Lahore where we were hosted by the Lahore University of Management Sciences (LUMS). It was like meeting our own selves through the looking glass where nothing turned upside down. Lahore has the same climate as Amritsar and Delhi, the people share similar fashions, they prefer listening to Yo Yo Honey Singh and think that Bollywood movies are a delight. They eat like us, yes with their hands and the food is as spicy as it is in Punjab. Our mannerisms are no different, we speak similar dialects and surprisingly, we share common worries of poverty, unemployment and scarce electricity. Both neglect women and both spend huge sums on military.

    On our trip, we visited the Badshahi Mosque and I was consumed by its grandeur. Iqbal quietly slept nearby. We left Badshahi Mosque and meandered into the food street. They were archaic structures which have been transformed into restaurants. They used to be brothels where women danced on khyal beat and men rose high in their raptures of the deep. The food mesmerised our appetite, while the surrounding ambiance mellowed down the heat, and in this wildness of pleasure and taste we left the place.

    Other places we visited include Baba Farid Dargah at Kasur and Baba Ganj Shakar dargah at Pak Pattan. These were peaceful places, had a spiritual experience in the shadow of those fakirs who aspired for a deeper understanding of religion, of unity of human beings as a whole. They served both good and bad and stole a little goodness from the good and healed the errant. But the earth now holds them in deep meditation, they be the springs of enlightenment and bring people of this subcontinent into a spiritual union.

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    The whole trip was not just a walk through the narrow streets of Lahore; it was more of meeting my own self, my separated half. How easily one could connect to its other fragmented part and it is only our ignorance and lack of tolerance that shape us into two distinct objects. The rapture of Partition and its hidden animosity can only preach hate but it is the responsibility of the people of these two nations to move beyond memories towards reconciliations.

    A progression towards Indo-Pak amity does not only forecast economic profits, rather it shall provide us the desired political stability and humanitarianism. I feel it is high time for these two nations to reciprocate friendship rather than ideas, and mellow down in terms of grudges. Borders need to be made transparent; people should start knowing each other by visiting each other. More and more student interactions should be endorsed and recommended so that future generations have a privilege of knowing their neighbours better. War and enmity are the harvest of ill social constructs that root you into ideologies of hate and severe hostilities. Why not share our stories and together we weep in sorrows of the time we lost in fighting each other and also in the joy of a new dawn that is a step away.

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    To a Kashmiri Indian, Pakistan is a magical land of freedom, the unseen and highly imagined, midnight fantasy. However, from my various interactions with friends and other people from the Indian sub-continent who find Pakistan to be a hard country, I have come to the conclusion that these beliefs emerge out of certain perceptions and perceptions are second-hand borrowed realities. Narratives alter the mind and courage is required to overcome these forces that lead you astray. I entered Pakistan through a dream channel and while leaving I was able to find myself a new reality that nobody dictated or pushed onto me. It is to be remembered that a country is not a religion. rather it is a union of people and cultures where language and ideologies should not be the barrier for a holy intercourse of peace. In this mix, Kashmir fallouts appear to be a miscarriage.

    In the words of Rumi,

    “Come, come, whoever you are, Wanderer, idolater, worshiper of fire,

    Come even though you have broken your vows a thousand times,

    Come, and come yet again.

    Ours is not a caravan of despair.

    Come let us heal each other, Come, let us put an end to these borders.”

    All photos: Mohammad Tabish



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    [​IMG]
    Mohammad Tabish
    The author holds an Honours degree in English Literature. Besides writing freelance for various newspapers, he writes poetry and is currently pursuing Masters of Arts in International Affairs. He tweets as @22_Tabish.

    http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/2...-in-pakistan-it-is-a-magical-land-of-freedom/
     
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  3. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

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    Excellent thought. I've read many blogs of Indian tourists who visited Pakistan and prasied it as the whole experience changed their perception of the country.
     
  4. thethinker

    thethinker Senior Member Senior Member

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    [​IMG]

    "A progression towards Indo-Pak amity does not only forecast economic profits, rather it shall provide us the desired political stability and humanitarianism. I feel it is high time for these two nations to reciprocate friendship rather than ideas, and mellow down in terms of grudges. Borders need to be made transparent; people should start knowing each other by visiting each other. More and more student interactions should be endorsed and recommended so that future generations have a privilege of knowing their neighbours better. War and enmity are the harvest of ill social constructs that root you into ideologies of hate and severe hostilities. Why not share our stories and together we weep in sorrows of the time we lost in fighting each other and also in the joy of a new dawn that is a step away."

    WKK bullshit sounds pleasing until reality bites you hard.


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  5. thethinker

    thethinker Senior Member Senior Member

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    Pakistan: Myths and consequences
    http://pragati.nationalinterest.in/2013/03/pakistan-myths-and-consequences/


    by Omar Ali — March 15, 2013 5:12 pm


    The Islamic and irrationally anti-Indian elements in the self-image of the Pakistani state have led it down a self-destructive path.

    Salman Rushdie famously said that Pakistan was “insufficiently imagined”. To say that a state is insufficiently imagined is to run into thorny questions regarding the appropriate quantum of imagination needed by any state; there is no single answer and at their edges (internal or external), all states and all imaginings are contested. But while the mythology used to justify any state is elastic and details vary in every case, it is not infinitely elastic and all options are not equally workable. I will argue that Pakistan in particular was insufficiently imagined prior to birth; that once it came into being, the mythology favoured by its establishment proved to be self-destructive; and that it must be corrected (surreptitiously if need be, openly if possible) in order to permit the emergence of workable solutions to myriad common post-colonial problems.

    In state sponsored textbooks it is claimed that Pakistan was established because two separate nations lived in India — one of the Muslims and the other of the Hindus (or Muslims and non-Muslims, to be more accurate) and the Muslims needed a separate state to develop individually and collectively. That the two “nations” lived mixed up with each other in a vast subcontinent and were highly heterogeneous were considered minor details. What was important was the fact that the Muslim elite of North India (primarily Turk and Afghan in origin) entered India as conquerors from ‘Islamic’ lands. And even though they then settled in India and intermarried with locals and evolved a new Indo-Muslim identity, they remained a separate nation from the locals. More surprisingly, those locals who converted to the faith of the conquerors also became a separate nation, even as they continued to live in their ancestral lands alongside their unconverted neighbours. Accompanying this was the belief that the last millennium of Indian history was a period of Muslim rule followed by a period of British rule. Little mention was made of the fact that the relatively unified rule of the Delhi Sultanate and the Moghul empire (both of which can be fairly characterised as “Muslim rule”, Hindu generals, satraps and ministers notwithstanding) collapsed in the 18th century to be replaced in large sections of India by the Maratha empire, and then by the Sikh Kingdom of Maharaja Ranjit Singh.

    During British rule the cultural goods of the North Indian Muslim elite (Urdu language, literate “high church” Islam, Islamicate social customs, a sense of separateness and a sense of superiority to the ‘natives’) became more of a model for the emerging Muslim middle class. But even as many leading lights of the North Indian Muslim community fought hard to promote what they saw as “Muslim interests”, they were also attracted by the emerging notion of a modern and democratic Indian whole. Some of these leaders (including Jinnah) simultaneously espoused elements of Muslim nationalism and secularised Indian nationalism and sometimes went back and forth between these ideals or tried to aim for a synthesis. Some of this multi-tasking was undoubtedly the result of sophisticated political calculation by very smart people, but it must not be forgotten that a lot of it was also a reflection of the half-formed and still evolving nature of these categories.

    In this confused and somewhat chaotic setting it is hard to argue that any particular outcome was inevitable or pre-ordained. But the tension between the Muslim elite’s sense of Muslim distinctiveness (a sense cultivated by the British rulers for their own purposes at every step) on the one hand and emerging Indian nationalism dominated by Hindus on the other, led some Muslims to think about various schemes of separation. Allama Iqbal, for example, imagined a separate Muslim country in the Northwest that would serve as India’s martial bulwark against central Asian marauders, while also acting as a laboratory for the development of an as yet uncreated Islamicate culture of his dreams. In this dream, Islam is not a static revealed truth; it is an evolving idea, a fire in the minds of men that drives them to endlessly create something new and heroic, yet rooted and eternal. The audience for this romantic but sophisticated fantasy was necessarily small, but less sophisticated versions of this vision played a role in exciting the minds of many young and newly-educated men during the movement for Pakistan.

    Other visions of Pakistan were cruder and more literal minded and imagined a state where perfect Islamic law (already revealed and written in books, waiting to be applied as it had once been applied in the golden ages past) replaced “failed heathen systems”. Since no orthodox school of Sunni Islamic law had actually evolved beyond medieval models there was no way those blueprints could create a working modern state. But these mythical visions had played a prominent role in the propaganda of the Muslim league and they prepared the ground in which crude Salafist fantasies would find traction in the years to come.

    The historian Ayesha Jalal has convincingly argued that Mr. Jinnah in fact wanted to use the threat of partition as a bargaining ploy to secure more rights for the Muslim political elite within united India. In this view, Mr. Jinnah and his lieutenants had never fully answered the many objections that were raised against the partition scheme because they never really expected the scheme to be carried out, but via a complicated series of mistakes and miscalculations on all sides, partition ended up becoming a reality.

    Pakistan as it was created did not really overlap the domain of the North Indian Muslim elite who had been the main drivers of this demand. One way to solve this problem was to imagine the actually existing Pakistan as a transitional phase between British India and the re-establishment of some future Delhi sultanate (this crackpot scheme being the official ideology of the Zaid Hamid faction of Paknationalism). The other was to imagine that the cultural heritage of the Delhi Sultanate has now been transferred in toto to Pakistan by the North Indian Muslim elite and would grow and prosper here as the unifying culture of Pakistan. This package frequently included conscious or unconscious disdain for the existing cultures of Bengal, Punjab, Sindh, Pakhtoonkhwa and Baluchistan, and an irrational determination to expiate any sign of ‘Indian-ness’ in the greater cause of Urdu-speaking North Indian Muslim high culture.

    The Bengalis found this so hard to swallow that they opted out of the experiment altogether. And in spite of the creation of a pan-Pakistan middle class that has been acculturated into a (necessarily shallow) version of North Indian Urdu culture, these contradictions remain potent in the West as well. Separatist movements are one consequence of this attempt to impose a shallow and partly imaginary Pakistani nationalism on existing cultures; a more insidious consequence is the accelerated decay of deeply rooted cultural frameworks and the growth of shallow Saudi or Western (or mixed-up) cultural tendencies in the resulting vacuum.

    Other contradictions at the heart of the “two-nation theory” proved equally deadly in the long run. Pakistan had been created utilising the language of Muslim separatism and the millenarian excitement generated by the promise of a “Muslim state”. And even at the outset, these ideas were not just convenient tools for the elite to achieve economic objectives (a view common among leftists). The elite itself was Muslim. To varying extents, its members shared the myths of past greatness and future Islamic revival that they had just used to obtain a state for themselves. In a world where modern European institutions and ideas were taken for granted even by relatively orthodox upper class Muslims, the disruptive political possibilities hidden in orthodox Islamism were not easily appreciated and dreams of Islamic revival could take on almost any form.

    Most hardcore Islamists had not supported the Pakistan movement precisely because they regarded the Muslim League leadership as Westernised modernists ignorant of orthodox Islamic thought. But they were quick to realise that Pakistan was a natural laboratory for their Islamic experiments. The fact that fantasies of Islamic rule had been projected as models for the state made it very difficult to argue against those who claimed to speak in the name of pure Islam. Besides, orthodox Islamists possessed the twin notions of apostasy and blasphemy that are extremely potent tools to suppress any challenge to Islamic orthodoxy. These tools create problems in all modern Muslim states, but they are especially hard to resist in a state supposedly created so that Islamic ideals could “order the collective life of Muslims in the light of the Quran and Sunnah” (to quote the Objectives Resolution). Consequently the modern Pakistani state has slowly but steadily ceded ideological ground to Islamists who can legitimately claim to be closer to the Islam described in orthodox books and taught in orthodox schools.

    This rise of Islamic politics was not an overnight process. In fact Left wing slogans had far more appeal in the first 30 years of Pakistan than any Islamic slogan. But the Islamists proved far-sighted and persistent and used a succession of wedge issues to insert their agenda into national politics. From the anti-Ahmedi agitation of 1953 to the successful effort to declare them non-Muslim in 1974; and from the free-lance enforcement of blasphemy laws in British times (albeit one that prominent Muslim leaders including Allama Iqbal supported in the Ilm Deen case in the 1920s) to the powerful instrument of legal intimidation, bullying and state-sponsored murder created by General Zia in the 1980s, the Islamists have steadily tightened their grip. Having adopted Islam and irrational denial of our own Indian-ness as core elements of the state, the ‘modern’ factions of the establishment lack the vocabulary to answer the fanatics. This has allowed a relatively small number of Islamist officers to promote wildly dangerous policies (like training half a million armed Islamic fanatics in the 1990s) without saner elements being able to stop them. This unique “own-goal”, unprecedented in the history of modern states, is impossible to understand without reference to the Islamic and irrationally anti-Indian element in the self-image of the Pakistani state.

    Photo: Muzaffar Bukhari

    Omar Ali writes for 3quarksdaily.com and viewpointonline.net, and blogs at brownpundits.com.
     
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  6. Neo

    Neo Senior Member Senior Member

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    Pakistan — the world’s best-kept secret

    By Marcel Bandur
    Published: September 17, 2015

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    The writer is from Slovakia and is a graduate of the University of Durham, UK, and the National University of Singapore. He is currently based in Singapore

    I have been an extensive traveller, a true backpacker, having visited numerous countries on all continents. Pakistan had never figured in my calculus until I developed friendships with two Pakistanis; one gentleman from Lahore and the other from Karachi. These two shared a dormitory with me during my studies at the National University of Singapore (NUS). I found these individuals to be poles apart from the general depiction of Pakistanis that the media regularly portrays. What I had always gleaned from the media was that Pakistan was a country mired in terrorism and religious extremism, and was a highly unsafe place, especially for foreigners. Stories about how women were treated in the country were just as dismal. In stark contrast to these images, my Pakistani friends exuded warmth and wit; they were generous, well-meaning and easy to relate to. My curiosity about their country often led me to lengthy discussions with them. Their advice to me was that the only way to truly understand Pakistan was by paying it a visit. As my Lahore-based friend returned to Pakistan upon his graduation from NUS, I thought of grabbing a chance to visit the country. His response was very encouraging. My biggest problem, however, was my mother, who when learning of my plan, screamed and proclaimed me to be crazy. I cannot blame her, as her only knowledge about the country was through the media, which is solely interested in displays of violence and misogyny, thus missing 99.9 per cent of the Pakistan story.

    However, as I had made up my mind to visit Pakistan, nothing was going to stop me. Since I desired to visit the Northern Areas as well, my friend from Lahore not only lined up a visit for me, he also took a break from his office to give me company. My journey from Singapore to Lahore (via Bangkok) felt strange, or rather unique, as I was the only foreigner on the flight. The gentleman sitting next to me was a doctor from Lahore. His amazement as to why I had chosen Pakistan as my holiday destination unhinged me for a moment. Later I understood that this was genuine curiosity rather than a voicing of concern regarding my security.

    I was received at the airport by my friend. While driving to his home, I saw alleys of trees and greenery, clean streets and orderly traffic — quite unlike how I imagined Lahore to be. The next day, I woke up to a beautiful sunny morning and went around the city: to the historic fort and the Badshahi Mosque. I was wearing the traditional shalwar kurta that my friend’s father had kindly gifted to me. Contrary to my expectations, nobody on the street gave me strange ‘look-there’s-a-foreigner’ looks. The evening was spent sitting on the rooftop of a restaurant on food street, listening to live instrumental music against the backdrop of the splendidly-lit Badshahi mosque, presenting an awe-inspiring spectacle. The desi cuisine was delicious and the spices were toned down at my request. The decor and architecture of the street were indescribably beautiful. I visited shopping areas, busy malls, high-end restaurants and roadside dhabas. There was not a moment, which gave me the feeling that I was at a dangerous or a conservative place. People were open, cheerful and absolutely normal while they went about their daily lives.

    The bus ride from Lahore to Islamabad on the motorway was an experience in itself. Passengers were offered complimentary high-speed WiFi internet, sandwiches, juices and headphones, should they want to listen to music or watch a film. While in Islamabad, a visit to a local coffee shop was an eye-opener. I could see petite girls, walking in re-assuredly, hanging out with their friends late into the night, giggling and chatting. My stereotypes as to how women in Pakistan lived were now gradually fading away; more so when I saw so many of them all alone and independent, trekking the woods of the Astor Valley.

    The drive to the Northern Areas through Kaghan and Naran was a breath-taking experience. There were nearly 20 of us in the coaster, and we quickly got to know each other. The next couple of days at Chilas, Astor and Shigar were exciting, as we camped in the wilderness, drank from the gushing springs and dipped in the pristine lakes. This was something I could not have imagined before. I felt so fortunate to have a view of the mighty Indus and imposing snow-capped peaks at the same time. The drive through the Deosai plains was incredibly stunning with a tapestry of colourful flowers spread in the wilderness. The silence was a balm for the ears. We passed through several villages and went hiking. The locals always greeted us with smiles, while those who were far away in their stone-and-mud houses, just waved. Contrary to my experience in many countries, I did not see anyone begging for money or harassing tourists. My visit to the Nanga Parbat base camp created an unforgettable memory. It was August 14, Pakistan’s Independence Day. One could see Pakistani flags fluttering all around. I thought I had reached the real Pakistan, closer to nature and close to national passion.

    While our visit ended on a happy note, one thing continued to bother me throughout the visit — the all too obvious ‘VIP culture’. In Astor, despite our booking at the PTDC rest house, we were asked to camp outside on the lawn for the night because some higher-up had landed with his guests, resulting in the cancellation of our booking. The dinner time was at eight but we were kept waiting until 11 as the ‘VIPs’ were still sitting around in the dining hall long after dinner, enjoying their cup of tea.

    Later, I found myself on the other, privileged side of ‘VIP culture’. On our way back, we were stopped at the Chilas check post and were asked to go via the KKH-Bisham route, which would have taken us six hours longer. The officials on duty were not allowing any vehicle to take the Naran-Kaghan route, which was far shorter. Now was the time for my friend to pull some strings. He called up his father, a retired senior government official. After a short wait, there was a wireless message at the post, which allowed our vehicle to travel via Kaghan saving us six long hours of travel time.

    During my sleepover in Islamabad, there was also the unfortunate incident of the bomb blast in which the Punjab home minister tragically lost his life, signifying the challenges that the country still faces. I immediately got a panicky call from my mother. I had to calm her down and drew her attention instead to the bombings in Bangkok that had happened around the same time, and where I had previously studied for my A-levels.


    While I took off from Lahore on my journey to Vienna and onwards to home, I was overwhelmed by a feeling of how incredible Pakistan was! What is needed is a better understanding of the country by the world. I would reiterate the advice given to me by my Pakistani friends. Don’t take my word for it, go visit Pakistan and see it for yourself.


    Published in The Express Tribune, September 18th, 2015.

    Like Opinion & Editorial on Facebook, follow @ETOpEd on Twitter to receive all updates on all our daily pieces.

    http://tribune.com.pk/story/958632/pakistan-the-worlds-best-kept-secret/
     
  7. thethinker

    thethinker Senior Member Senior Member

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  8. rohit.gr77

    rohit.gr77 Regular Member

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    Must be really stupid to get a Pakistan Visa stamp on ur Passport. That means you are barred entry in the US, stringent security checks in all the other western countries. So no sane Indian would visit Pakistan for tourism atleast, maybe for business, but seriously tourism. :crazy:
     
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  9. tharikiran

    tharikiran Regular Member

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    :bs::bs::bs::playball::playball::playball::hehe::hehe::hehe::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::smash::smash::smash::smash::smash::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
    A Kashmiri Indian in Pakistan: “It is a magical land of freedom”
     
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  10. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    he said... Pakistan.. in Indian Subcontinent .... :india:
    Baat Khatam .. :D

    anyhow .. so what? We Indians support Pakis here in their stay during studies :p
     
  11. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Girls at LUMS are Bombs. @Blackwater - any comments?
     
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  12. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    showed them city, helped them with topography ...got dated by 2 .. came here for mba. :p
    they have lots to talk about... try karo sir ji :D .. they are nice. and not really anti Indian
     
  13. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    My university stopped the exchange the year I entered. My seniors were so lucky!
     
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  14. Screambowl

    Screambowl Senior Member Senior Member

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    no worries...
    try helping them around if u find them ...
    tip: don't drink or smoke in front of them
     
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  15. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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    These Pak women are bombs!:drool: Priyanka Chopra for Hina Rabbani Khar, anyone?? :)
     
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  16. Rowdy

    Rowdy Co ja kurwa czytam! Senior Member

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    Yup Pak is the land of freedom here is jinnah's speech to prove it
    "You are free. You are free to blow up your temples, you are free to blow up your mosques or to any other place of worship in this state of Pakistan," Jinnah declared. "You may belong to any religion or caste or creed - that has nothing to do with the interest of the state."
    :rofl:
     
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  17. I_PLAY_BAD

    I_PLAY_BAD Regular Member

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    The tourist is a Muslim.
    Would he have enjoyed the same experience had he been a Indian Hindu ?
    Just wanted to know....
     
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  18. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    Pakistan — the world’s best-kept secret WAS OSAMA BIN LADEN
     
  19. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    yes yes yes we all speak the same languages, eat the same food the same way , wear the same clothes .....but really its punjabi vs punjabi with other language groups added on and so it looks like india vs pak but really it is punj vs punj , a family feud , one brother converted to another religion and so they had to fight about that .......great stuff ......and now all of us who really dont want war, we have to get involved whether we like it or not !


    Neo -ji Sir , no one doubts that pok is a magical land,least of all the people of india who gave it to you "on trust " .....when nehru halted the forward and easy advance of the IA in 1948 before your saviour the ccp of china even came into power and when it was a walk-over to take what is now pok

    they gave it to you on trust that you having more than your fair share of kashmir would seek to develop all of Pakistan and live in peace in a peaceful neighbourhood of nations especially after all the colonialisation of the psat

    but it was not to be so and now as the record stands you have invited the military of prcchina to place their equipment and men in this once beautiful land

    as usual you have interpreted kindness as weakness ..... pok may not be the beautiful land for very much longer ....if there are gonna be any wars, the entire kashmir region may be flooded with militaries and that's the end of the magic

    instead we could have each had their fair share and lived in peace even co-operation .....it still may not be too late ....if the ISI can be removed from influence in pakistan .....but that is a tall order , inst it ?

    or even a Christian or Sikh ?, or god forbid, ....jewish Indian ?

    .....have they moved to Pakistan , or they admiring from india, while enjoying the economy of india or elsewhere ?

    extracting the main points:

    ...... What was important was the fact that the Muslim elite of North India (primarily Turk and Afghan in origin) entered India as conquerors from ‘Islamic’ lands. And even though they then settled in India and intermarried with locals and evolved a new Indo-Muslim identity, they remained a separate nation from the locals. More surprisingly, those locals who converted to the faith of the conquerors also became a separate nation, even as they continued to live in their ancestral lands alongside their unconverted neighbours. Accompanying this was the belief that the last millennium of Indian history was a period of Muslim rule followed by a period of British rule.

    Little mention was made of the fact that the relatively unified rule of the Delhi Sultanate ......... collapsed in the 18th century ........

    the cultural heritage of the Delhi Sultanate has now been transferred in toto to Pakistan by the North Indian Muslim elite

    This package frequently included conscious or unconscious disdain for the existing cultures of Bengal, Sindh, and Baluchistan, .......

    The Bengalis found this so hard to swallow that they opted out of the experiment altogether.


    conclusion :
    so, with this article above as a basis, that is how i now view Pakistan ......basically an experiment by the afghan and turkic people of the high elite northern indian muslim in an attempt to reinstate the Delhi Sultanate and with a disdain for any other culture than their afghan turkic culture and importing some lower classes of muslim masses to be in the front lines to...... sacrifice THEIR lives ........for this dream of ........the ... indo-arabic-afghan-turkic elites .who in a ridiculous way pretend that the indo part of them is not there while yet speaking urdu, eating the food , dressed in sari listening to qawalli and firmly told by the arabian world that they are not arabic ......what an experiment , and how it has progressed !

    invitation to comment and if you feel what ive written is interesting, you may "clicke" :-
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    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015
  20. saty

    saty Tihar Jail Banned

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    That is why I insist ban Incest marriages these Muslim Inbreeding effecting their brains they only see Green color and wear suicide belts only. :pound:
     
    rock127 likes this.
  21. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

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    Has anyone noticed that recently Pakis are circulating such posts about Pakistan.Seems like ISI is giving some money to them. :hmm:

    Everyone knows Pakistan is a biggest shithole of the world where Terrorists are created like mosquito.

    Pakistan is Rapistan where 100 women get raped in Karachi alone.

    Only a BABOON would believe Pakistan is a place to go since it's the most NO GO place in the world.What a shitty country this Pakistan is. :lol: Osama found soooooo much love and freedom in this Pakistan. :rofl:

    @Neo : You beigairat besharam behaya Paki loves getting slapped so much that you keep coming with these shitty posts.Everyone knows about Pakistan ok so take your shit in your Paki/Chinese forum.

    A lot of such threads ends up in --> Pakistani Lies & Denial thread

    @pmaitra @sob @LETHALFORCE: Please move it in above lies and denial thread as DFI cant be such a place for ISI driven campaigns.

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