A big step forward for India: UN adopts negotiating text for security council reforms

[Illusive]

You are a small country and American are troubling you, well not to worry the Russians and Chinese will find merit in your small godforsaken country. Holds true vice-versa too. UN is the only place where tails wag the dogs.

Who are we kidding, US was able to sanction Russia even with Russia being a great power. West is still fighting Assad even with the ISIS threat and Syria is in ruins. UN is useful only when China or Russia is troubling you, if the trouble maker is US, then its already game over for that country :biggrin2:

 

[Yumdoot]

Who are we kidding, US was able to sanction Russia even with Russia being a great power. West is still fighting Assad even with the ISIS threat and Syria is in ruins. UN is useful only when China or Russia is troubling you, if the trouble maker is US, then its already game over for that country :biggrin2:

But you miss the point.

US with all its Veto Sheeto can take only the small little countries. Americans have already tried going against big guys like China and India and Russia.

The Russians could not save the USSR despite their Veto. But they still have the Crimea in their hands despite the fact this current war in Ukraine is the 2nd by a supa power block to deny the Russians their black sea. American+Brit+French Veto helps them zilch in Crimea and all three have to rely on Germans (without Veto) to talk to the Russians. Because to that extent Germans ki g@#$d mein dum hai. And that is the only real lesson in international relations. This softie-mushy Aman ki asha for a Veto is useless stuff.

Veto did not save the Russians nor does the Veto make the Americans any more powerful.

 

[Hari Sud]

It looks that Indian diplomacy has bypassed very political and tedious UN Security Council's power structure.

In the General Assembly, five permanent members have one vote each.

This is a major up for India, but look at it from the point of view that how could this happen without US blessings. They would not let anybody move a resolution for enlarging the Security Council, let alone vote. So it has full US blessings.

When Hillary Clinton was US Secretary of State, she used to laugh at similar proposal s (Wilileaks). Now is gone and having political difficulties to get Democratic Party nomination, may be Obama Administration had a change of heart.

The resolution of the General Assembly to open negotiations. How many other roadblocks are put by one or the other permanent member of the Security Council, we cannot tell now. The change most likely to happen is when Indian PPP GDP crosses $25 Trillions and defence expenditure crosses $120 billions. That should happen in next 5-7 years. That is the time frame we have to talk about India achieving permanent membership status of the Security council.

Once permanent member of UN SC, all those roadblocks of NPT, NSG etc. to buy Uranium of technology wherever available will disappear.

 

[Illusive]

But you miss the point.

US with all its Veto Sheeto can take only the small little countries. Americans have already tried going against big guys like China and India and Russia.

The Russians could not save the USSR despite their Veto. But they still have the Crimea in their hands despite the fact this current war in Ukraine is the 2nd by a supa power block to deny the Russians their black sea. American+Brit+French Veto helps them zilch in Crimea and all three have to rely on Germans (without Veto) to talk to the Russians.

Veto did not save the Russians nor does the Veto make the Americans any more powerful.

Thats why i've been saying India should form its own block instead of begging for this UNSC seat. Japan, Germany are a good start since all these countries are largely seen as what we call less likely to bully small countries which itself would be a good relief for small countries.

 

[raja696]

But you miss the point.

US with all its Veto Sheeto can take only the small little countries. Americans have already tried going against big guys like China and India and Russia.

The Russians could not save the USSR despite their Veto. But they still have the Crimea in their hands despite the fact this current war in Ukraine is the 2nd by a supa power block to deny the Russians their black sea. American+Brit+French Veto helps them zilch in Crimea and all three have to rely on Germans (without Veto) to talk to the Russians. Because to that extent Germans ki g@#$d mein dum hai. And that is the only real lesson in international relations. This softie-mushy Aman ki asha for a Veto is useless stuff.

Veto did not save the Russians nor does the Veto make the Americans any more powerful.

If veto not important then why china is blocking directly or indirectly India and Japan? May be its a threat to bullies if proper democracy get veto power.

 

[Yumdoot]

If veto not important then why china is blocking directly or indirectly India and Japan? May be its a threat to bullies if proper democracy get veto power.

I don't know man. I just prefer action to mere theatrics.

The US says look Hindoo I give you UNSC seat and if you behave you get the Veto too. Now jump.

Congress used to jump. That jumping became national policy. Now NDA will also have go by the national policy else the concord established between two nations (US and India) gets disturbed. This concord is the last known point of agreement.

Now because the Chinese don't like it and because the Chinese want to keep India and Russia apart they will pretend to criticize it. As if we Indians will get Tibet independent if we get the Veto.

Then US fanboys on the net will try it color it as a big India vs China situation.

The original Russian option when they were a super power was to get China, India and rest of Asia to bind together so this bound entity remains out of western influence. But that view was not grounded in reality. Result of abandoning reality is that today they will have to agree with the Chinese.

Then US fanboys on the net will try to color it as big India vs Russia situation.

In all these theatrics nobody will answer:

What will happen if we get into the security council?

Since the Indian Foreign Services spend the better part of the day in these things so this thing will acquire a life of its own.

Man you ask me. Bihar elections are a whole lot more important than the UNSC seat and Swatch Bharat is a zillion times more important than a lousy Veto. A Veto that could not improve the lot of those who had it.

USSR-Veto-Gone
Russia-Veto-challenged
China-Veto-messed up past
Brit-Veto-Lost the Raj
France-Veto-Lost every war they fought in the last few centuries
US-Veto-Check out the Debt to GDP ratio and you will know why the US needs new sidekicks in Asia.

I guess its upto individual choice. I don't mind the IFS bickering over Veto. I kind of like buggering the rest of the world. I just hope this is not brought into our living rooms. Even, Indrani hatyari kaand has more entertainment value.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

I don't know man. I just prefer action to mere theatrics.

The US says look Hindoo I give you UNSC seat and if you behave you get the Veto too. Now jump.

Congress used to jump. That jumping became national policy. Now NDA will also have go by the national policy else the concord established between two nations (US and India) gets disturbed. This concord is the last known point of agreement.

Now because the Chinese don't like it and because the Chinese want to keep India and Russia apart they will pretend to criticize it. As if we Indians will get Tibet independent if we get the Veto.

Then US fanboys on the net will try it color it as a big India vs China situation.

The original Russian option when they were a super power was to get China, India and rest of Asia to bind together so this bound entity remains out of western influence. But that view was not grounded in reality. Result of abandoning reality is that today they will have to agree with the Chinese.

Then US fanboys on the net will try to color it as big India vs Russia situation.

In all these theatrics nobody will answer:


Since the Indian Foreign Services spend the better part of the day in these things so this thing will acquire a life of its own.

Man you ask me. Bihar elections are a whole lot more important than the UNSC seat and Swatch Bharat is a zillion times more important than a lousy Veto. A Veto that could not improve the lot of those who had it.

USSR-Veto-Gone
Russia-Veto-challenged
China-Veto-messed up past
Brit-Veto-Lost the Raj
France-Veto-Lost every war they fought in the last few centuries
US-Veto-Check out the Debt to GDP ratio and you will know why the US needs new sidekicks in Asia.

I guess its upto individual choice. I don't mind the IFS bickering over Veto. I kind of like buggering the rest of the world. I just hope this is not brought into our living rooms. Even, Indrani hatyari kaand has more entertainment value.

Perfectly summarized my thoughts. Veto changes nothing if India cannot supply weapons to its allies. If it makes enough weapons and have enough money, it can do virtually anything/everything without veto.

 

[Mad Indian]

................................................................................................................................................

What a retarded logic

I am pretty sure this is non-sequitor fallacy. Its similiar to the dumbfucks asking why Modi is forming alliances around the world/visiting US/visiting Japan and will it solve the garbage problem in India. I can understand it from Congitards and AAPtards but not from you

 

[Mad Indian]

I tell you, Sushuma ji should declare in UN general assembly - India respects the world opinion but Swatch Bharat is more important than UNSC seat.

Nobody can go against that statement ever and you get the point across.

Damn these congressis, had they not started this stupidity our babus would have been doing something better. Remember that idiot Salman Kursheed, gaviya nachiya, singing 'Kal Ho Na Ho'.

There is so much work like negotiating with Araps for safety of Indians troubled by ISIS or negotiating for CAR oil or the goddamned relationship with Swedes (since SAAB would be important for private sector making the LCA Mk-2).

Hey genius, how about I make an equally stupid argument : Since terrorism kills less people than road accidents, we should not talk about terrorism until we reduce the deaths from road accidents

 

[Mad Indian]

India may not get a permanent seat with veto. In such case India must push the UN to grant veto to it.
Because India has an excellent track record of contributing to UN peace keeping and abstained from any conflict with other countries. NSG waiver and IAEA relaxations are some examples for India's recognition. We can use it to our advantage.

This is actually a big myth - that UN peace keeping missions matter. It does not. Half Pakis/Bangladeshis have contributed more to UN peace keeping than India. So does that mean they should be granted Veto? Of course not. Its not about contribution to UN but rather the power a nation has in international arena

the Veto is a question of power and in the present world, India deserves it more than UK or France. In absolute terms of Power, India is only behind US, Russia and China in that order. And so if UK and france have it, so should India. That is why this veto is so important - it is an acknowledgement of strength.

 

[Mad Indian]

Who are we kidding, US was able to sanction Russia even with Russia being a great power.

Urgh, Russia was not sanctioned by the UN, but was sanctioned by the EU and US. There is a huge difference dude

 

[Mad Indian]

Why is there so much self defeatism here in this thread. It looks like another Saudi rape thread. Indian self esteem is much worse than I originally thought

 

[Mad Indian]

Since the Indian Foreign Services spend the better part of the day in these things so this thing will acquire a life of its own.

Man you ask me. Bihar elections are a whole lot more important than the UNSC seat and Swatch Bharat is a zillion times more important than a lousy Veto. A Veto that could not improve the lot of those who had it.

You know why 1965 war was lost?

Because the dumbfuck Nehru dint get the Veto for India when it was offered which pushed India into a lot of pressure regarding UNSC resolutions during the`1965. Fuck, even during 1971, the Soviets urged Indira to not push Pakistan too deep into trouble as Soviets cant be vetoing every resolution forever.

And you think Veto is something we dont need.

 

[Mad Indian]

Thats why i've been saying India should form its own block instead of begging for this UNSC seat. Japan, Germany are a good start since all these countries are largely seen as what we call less likely to bully small countries which itself would be a good relief for small countries.

Thats a good bullying tactic, but I dont think it will work. I think we need to go a long way before we can bully UN into our whims, but still its not a dash. Its good thing that we are taking the slow steps

 

[Illusive]

Urgh, Russia was not sanctioned by the UN, but was sanctioned by the EU and US. There is a huge difference dude

That was my point, UNSC seat doesn't do shit if the enemy is able to gang up on you and put sanctions on you anyway.

 

[Mad Indian]

That was my point, UNSC seat doesn't do shit if the enemy is able to gang up on you and put sanctions on you anyway.

So you think western sanctions is same as UN sanctions? Wow. Seriously? I dont even know how/where to respond to this crap

Thats as retarded as saying,why bother with a healthy living, (UNSC seat doesn't do shit if the enemy is able to gang up on you) since you are going to die anyway (put sanctions on you anyway.)

 

[Illusive]

So you think western sanctions is same as UN sanctions? Wow. Seriously? I dont even know how/where to respond to this crap

Thats as retarded as saying,why bother with a healthy living, (UNSC seat doesn't do shit if the enemy is able to gang up on you) since you are going to die anyway (put sanctions on you anyway.)

Are you a kid ? do we need to simplify everything for you to understand?

Ganging up was a metaphor for NATO allies aka west and the point was US doesn't need UN to put sanctions, which means i was telling the same thing which you were telling me, Now Kapish?

 

[Mad Indian]

Are you a kid ? do we need to simplify everything for you to understand?

Ganging up was a metaphor for NATO allies aka west and the point was US doesn't need UN to put sanctions, which means i was telling the same thing which you were telling me, Now Kapish?

Are you stupid? I was saying the same thing and that what you said is retarded beyond belief. To give more examples for you to understand, SO if Pakistan does not give us MFN, does that mean we should not give MFN to JApan, China, SoKo>? etc? So if West can threaten sanctions, does that mean we should give up on UN as a whole? Seriously? Are you that dumb to realise how stupid your argument is? How about this then, West can attack any country without UN approval any way and so we might as well disband army? How does that sound? Thats what you sound like

 

[no smoking]

Thats why i've been saying India should form its own block instead of begging for this UNSC seat. Japan, Germany are a good start since all these countries are largely seen as what we call less likely to bully small countries which itself would be a good relief for small countries.

What is this India's own block supposed to offer?
What happens if this organize is making a decision opposing to UN? Can this organization stand up to protect her weak members from the P5 militarily, economically and politically?
I guess not, then why those small countries join you if you can do nothing for them?

 

[no smoking]

If veto not important then why china is blocking directly or indirectly India and Japan? May be its a threat to bullies if proper democracy get veto power.

Well, the 3 "proper democracies" (US, UK and France) have this power from beginning, but China and Russia were stopped to be bullies. The damn fact is these 3 "proper democracies" themselves are bullies quite often.

So, you should ask why India and Japan are so desperately pursuing this power. The answer is this power can make you a step closer to become a legal bully. Yes, with this power, you can dismiss any UN decision which is not in your favour or you ally's favour.

Just use Russia as example: when they were sanctioned by West, they are still cool because Chinese, Indians and Koreans can still trade with them. But if Russians failed to prevent an UN sanction, Chinese, Indians and Koreans will have to cut the trade with them as all these countries bear obligation to UN.