A-50E/I Phalcon vs Saab 2000 Erieye AEW&C.

Discussion in 'Military Aviation' started by sayareakd, Aug 17, 2012.

  1. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    I was looking at Indian and Pakistani AWAC pic then decided to make this thread

    first Pakistani Awac

    [​IMG]

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    from wiki

    Saab has following

     
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  3. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    A-50E/I Phalcon

    IAF has got custom made IL 76 with Phalcon radar from Israel.
    [​IMG]

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    from wiki about IL 76

    IAI Phalcon 707
     
  4. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    so you see that IL 76 has almost 10 times the capacity to lift then Saab. Now imagine what electronics and sensors are inside IL 76 to fry enemy AWACs electronics :namaste:
     
  5. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    Great post. Not just the payload capacity but there is a stark contrast in other features as well. It is though obviously expected from us to better them, given the stakes and needs of the larger player in an equation.

    Regards,
    Virendra
     
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  6. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    if PAF wants to fly its AWAC safely then it has to take this route and it has blind spots.

    Blue is the flight path and red is the tracking zone.

    [​IMG]

    yes Pakistani AWAC can always run into Afghanistan, Iran or China to save itself from IAF. :rofl:

    China is best bet for them but IAF base is in Kashmir.
     
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  7. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    Saya, no point with the comparison.

    Phalcon ELM 2090 is the best AWACS radar in the world bar none. Not the US or UK or France or anyone else has anything close in terms of capability. Even the Israelis have only the 2085 actively deployed. Why are you even making an effort to compare this with plastic toys that the pukes have?
     
  8. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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  9. Illusive

    Illusive Senior Member Senior Member

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    Saya they have ZDK-03 too.

    PS: I got my answer :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
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  10. A chauhan

    A chauhan "अहिंसा परमो धर्मः धर्म हिंसा तथैव च: l" Senior Member

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    Saya great posts ! :thumb:

    What would be the usual payload of our Phalcon? Not max. payload.

    Unfortunately I cant click like from mobile.
     
  11. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    The two aircraft are of different classes. So, no comparison.

    Anyway, Phalcon has 11 work stations and 3 arrays. Erieye has 5 work stations and 2 arrays.

    In truth, even though the Erieye is called an AEW&C, it does not have enough controllers to manage the battlespace like Phalcons can. Erieye, DRDO-CABS, Eitam etc are really AEWs. At least Eitam is advertised as an AEW.

    Phlacon also has the ability to process ELINT and COMINT signals in real time. The others need to land and get it resolved. That's one reason why the number of controllers are more than double that of the smaller AEWs.

    The Israeli AEW (not AEW&C) which they call Eitam (Conformal AEW) is based on the Gulfstream G550 and has 5 workstations. Singapore has 4 Eitam as well. It is in the Erieye class.

    [​IMG]

    US designed the Wedgetail based on the 737. Australia has 6, S Korea has 3 and Turkey has 4. It is in the same class as the Phalcon, but you can say the Phalcon is ahead.

    [​IMG]

    I don't know what the Americans have planned but the only potential developments for the future in the "heavy" AEW&C category would be coming from India with the new project to be started and China with the KJ-2000 and it's future developments. But I guess both countries will have to look at better platform options like the IL-476, Boeing 737, A-330 or C-17.

    The first flight of Il-476 military transport aircraft is scheduled for September 2012 - News - Russian Aviation - RUAVIATION.COM
     
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  12. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    AC, IMHO payload of IL76 Capacity: 50,000 kg (Il-76), Payload: 50 tonnes which shall be fixed for the AWAC since it does not have to carry bomb or other equipment, crew is same, since station to man then are same.
     
  13. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    The G550 runs the 2085 which is the predecessor of the 2090. It is AEW&C as per freely available information.
     
  14. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    The EL/W-2090

    is a further development of EL/M-2075 and EL/W-2085.The EL/W-2090 uses the Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA), an active phased array radar. This radar consists of an array transmit/receive (T/R) modules that allow a beam to be electronically steered, making a physically rotating rotodome unnecessary. AESA radars operate on a pseudorandom set of frequencies and also have very short scanning rates, which makes them difficult to detect and jam.

    DRDO to be build next Generation Phalcons AEW&C for IAF | idrw.org
    An Indian Air Force EL/W-2090 Phalcon AEW&C radar system equipped Il-76. Three are currently in service, two more are on order, while a sixth may follow. Image courtesy of Michael Sender. - Image - Airforce Technology
    EL/W-2090 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Airborne early warning and control: Definition from Answers.com
    http://www.iai.co.il/sip_storage/FILES/5/37545.pdf


    The Range Is Classified
     
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  15. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    most important part of our AWAC is that we will use it to track missile launches and to be part of BMD system. Range is classified, but i suspect it is more the 500 km in tracking mode.
     
  16. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    The AWACS range will be no match for the Swordfish radar. As long as we have a few of those deployed at the borders, we wont need AWACS to detect missile launches. Ideally Satellites must be used for BM launch detection but that is still a decade away.


    BTW, the correct comparison would be between the Chinese supplied ZDK-03 to the A-50E/I instead of the Erieye.


    But that is pretty much crap too..
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2012
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  17. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    AWACS is all about range, power and the endurance. In all the aspects Phalcon is way ahead.

    From the defence daily “The limitation of the two sided array is that it can only cover two 120 degree sectors abeam of the aircraft, leaving 60 degree blind sectors over the nose and tail of the aircraft, and reduced antenna performance from 45 degrees off the beam aspect. Another limitation stems from the use of an airframe too small to accommodate a comprehensive self contained command, control and communications system, and other sensors such as a capable ESM and track association system.”
     
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  18. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    main advantage of AWAC is that a part from tracking BM they can also track cruise missiles. So they are necessary for our defence and offensive operations. More we got better it is and more home made better they are. BTW we are good at Radars, lets wait and see how our home grown mini AWAC would turn out to be.
     
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  19. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    Any idea how the Pakistani's are going to integrate the Chinese systems with the European systems in SAAB.
     
  20. sayareakd

    sayareakd Moderator Moderator

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    :confused: Google translator ???

    last time in 1998 they took lot of time to translate that is why test took so much time, but how Pakistanis have net facility. :rofl:
     
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  21. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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    Yes - they will paint both planes green.:namaste:
     
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