75 years from the start of Winter War

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by jouni, Dec 1, 2014.

  1. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    Winter War started 30.11.1939 when over 400 000 Strong Red Army invaded Finland. Adjusted to population this would mean 200 Million strong army attacking India and with losses replaced totally 450 Million men strong Army. Their task was to liberate Helsinki in 2 weeks. They brought marching band along, waited no resistance. Thought that Finns rise up against "Fascist capitalistic", which of course never happened. War lasted for 105 days and ended in armistice. Finns lost 27000 dead, Russian dead are unknown, Khrushchev said in his memoirs that Russia lost 1 000 000 men, current figures estimate 150 000 dead and 360 000 wounded, meaning that total Russian strength at the end of war was 1 000 000 men and their losses over 500 000. The war is now more relevant than ever, many similarities can be seen in the current Ukrainian conflict.

    More than seven decades since the Winter War began - thisisFINLAND

    Window on Eurasia -- New Series: Window on Eurasia: 75 Years On Russia Again Engaged in a Winter War

    “Why would big USSR want tiny Finland?” The Winter War remembered — RT News

    Anders Aslund: What Putin can learn from Stalin’s winter war

    White Death • Damn Interesting

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    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
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  3. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    The Incredible Story of Finnish Sniper Simo Hayha - Simo Hayha


    So a Finn had his own little genocide?
     
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  4. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Finland is a Fascist Nation.

    Their heroes are folks who were pro Nazis and their Air Force uses the Swastika.

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    Flag of the Finnish Air Force staff
     
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  5. Kshatriya87

    Kshatriya87 Senior Member Senior Member

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    As per a book I'm reading based on 2nd world war which has the latest figures and facts, number of Russians killed were 1,28,000.

    This was due to a number of reasons. There was only a narrow mountain pass from where the Russians could penetrate into Finland. The finns already had a regiment there since before the world war began. This regiment was at a great strategic advantage given the geographic nature of the terrain. It was easy for them to target Russians and their armoured vehicles and destroy them. However, they could not hamper the persistence of Russian soldiers under the command and fear of Stalin. (Stalin had authorised on the spot shooting of soldiers if they deserted their posts or ran away from their duty).

    After a couple of weeks, the finnish regiment started to get low on ammunition. They requested several times to their government and allies to help them with ammunition. Manpower was not a problem, but in vain.

    It is said that if they would have been supplied with additional ammunition, the Russians could have been stopped there with reasonable reinforcements in terms of manpower as compared to Russian casualties.

    Maybe the allied forces had something else in mind and didn't help them with what they needed.
     
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  6. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    Finnish snipers played an important role I think !!
     
  7. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    Come on Ray, you are just jealous. The Swastika is from Swedish count´s family coat of arms, he donated FiAF´s first plane. His family had the swastika before Hitler was even born. About pro nazis I am not even gonna start.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
  8. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    I am sorry, they attacked on 1300km front. No mountain passes. I do not know where you get your info.

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  9. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
  10. militarysta

    militarysta Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    ROTFL

    Look - "polish" nazi swastika from 1918
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    Look again - polish "nazi" where still using swastika in 1921 :D

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    (polish scout swastica symbol from 1921)

    look -again:

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    all dated before Hitler :)
    becouse BEFORE nazi invasion swastica in polish mountain part was symbol of happines and lucky -and it was used in ALL mountain infanty regiments sumbols :)



    more:
    Polskie Odzia³y Z Pod Znaku Swastyki - Ogólnopolski miesiêcznik ODKRYWCA
     
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  11. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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  12. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    Battle of Mäntyvaara, close combat using "puukko" a finnish knife.

    Two Soviet Divisions (other in frontline, other following it) crossed Finn-Soviet border at Salla in Finnish Lapland on 30th November 1939. There was one Finnish battalion (Er.P 17, so called Sallan Pataljoona) against them in beginning. Finnish Army headquarter noticed soon that overwhelming enemy was pushing straight towards to Swedish border from Salla to Tornio. That way was more simple and shorter route than complex route from Suomussalmi to Oulu. Rapidly two Finnish regiments and one battalion (and some smaller units) was ordered to Salla front. They came at moment Finnish defence was collapsing there in mid of December. The most significant battle was maybe battle of Mäntyvaara on 20th December 1939. One Soviet battalion was advancing via forests to backside of Finnish troops which were in Joutsijärvi . The battalion wanted reach main road Salla-Kemijärvi at Mäntyvaara. Fortunately there were two Finnish companies (of Er.P 17) just in Mäntyvaara on rest from frontline. Finnish won the battle. Finnish lost 17 and Soviets about 300 men as dead. It was man to man fightning with knives, rifles as mauls and fists. Finnish and Soviets were higgledy-piggledy. That is what-if question, but how about the Soviet battalion had won the battle? Then the war would prop ably have been lost.

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    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
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  13. ladder

    ladder Senior Member Senior Member

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    Come on @jouni, if this is not controversial, then why was it discontinued till 2005? Empathy eh?
    The Swastika is the Emblem of the Finnish Air Force
    @militarysta, why was it discontinued in the first place?
     
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  14. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    It was eiscontinued after the war, because Russians did not like it. Same with Lotta Svärd female auxilliary corps.

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  15. ladder

    ladder Senior Member Senior Member

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    Isn't it exactly what @Ray sir said?
     
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  16. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    No, it had nothing to do with nazis. Thats why it is again used today. You Indians should know your swastikas.
     
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  17. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The swastika- a holy symbol of Indo-Europa,which has accompanied Aryan tribes since the beginning of history or so it is stated.

    The word "swastika" has it's origin in Sanskrit and means "bringing prosperity".It has multitarious meaning,but it most often symbolies the sun,fire,creation forces,health and happines.Besides,as per Slavic information, they divide swastikas into two groups-right sides(arms clockwise)and left sided (called sauvastikas)which symbolises autumn sun,darkness death and decay.

    For the Slavs the swastika is a magic sign manifesting the power and majesty of the sun and fire. It was often used as a ornament decorating ritualistic utensils of a cult with ashes of the dead ones.

    It symbolised power(in attests picture of swastika on coins of Mieszko 1st).The power both laic and divine,because it was often placed on alters in pagan temples.After acceptance of christianity,and destroying of 'pagan' holy places,pieces of sculptures of pagan gods(swastika too) were build into walls of churches. The so called 'pagan' beliefs could not be obliterated.as they were powerful. Examples of it can be found in the cathedral in Kruszwica and in churches in Inowroclaw,Strzelno and Lowicz.

    In the beginning of renaissance, swastikas ornaments disappeared on utensils,but it doesn't mean the end of the swastika among the Slavs.It became an popular ornament on Easter eggs and in wayside shrines in the folk culture.This ornament still existed in 1940-50.

    Swastika was also herald sign,for example coat of arms "Borejko", used by noblemen lines from Poland and Ukraine.In 19th century the swastika was one of the Russian empire's symbol.it was placed in coins as a background of Russian eagle.

    In the beginning of 20th century the swastika became a sign of Aryan identity,as the result of development of nationalistic movements.The swastika was used ,for example by Polish National-Socialist party and neopagan "Zadruga".

    In the Czech Republic the swastika was a cognizance of the Czech National-Socialist Workers' and Peasants' Party Green swastikas. Besides the swastika was a cognizance of Tatra Higshlands' Riflemen(to the year 1940),and of 1st Mot. Art. Regiment of the polish Armed Force (to the year 1947).

    It indicates that they borrowed an Indian Hindu concept of goodness and turned it into a symbol of power and supremacy of the most disgusting proportion.
     
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  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Our Swastika is benign and holy.

    European swastika symbolise the hunger of power and greed.
     
  19. ladder

    ladder Senior Member Senior Member

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    We really know what swastika is.

    That is beyond the point. But if it has nothing to do with Nazis. Why was it banned it in the first place. When it was banned then also it had nothing to do with Nazis isn't it?

    And we Indians use it as a religious symbol. We have not institutionalised it, we are a secular country.

    We certainly are against a blanket ban but, being European country you bringing back the symbol has a different meaning.
     
  20. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    What type of countries you are?

    Russians did not like it!

    So, you kowtow to Russians and foreigners and sell your souls, heritage and traditions and customs just to please them?

    Same way you are doing now to the West after your Nazi past?

    Wah! Europeans! Wah!
     
  21. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Jealous of what?

    I exult that you find good reasons to follow Hindu Indian traditions.

    But what I find disgusting is that you all have dragged such a wonderful symbol into a symbol of murder, hate and disgraceful conduct.

    However, you are entitled to your weird and disgusting ways, if you will. I have no quibbles with that.

    But having ruined a fine symbol and brought to ignominy in Europe, you still hold it as your crowning glory smacks of height of h\yprocrisy.

    But then hypocrisy is Europe patented psyche.
     

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