£700 fine for wearing burqa in public places in France!

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by enlightened1, Jan 8, 2010.

  1. enlightened1

    enlightened1 Member of The Month JANUARY 2010

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    Women who wear Islamic veils in public will be liable to a fine of more than £700 under strict new laws being formulated in France.

    The amount could be doubled for Muslim men who force their wives or other female members of their family to cover their faces.

    Jean-Francois Cope, president of Nicolas Sarkozy's ruling UMP Party in the French parliament, said the new legislation was intended to protect the 'dignity' and 'security' of women.

    He is set to file the draft law in the National Assembly after Mr Sarkozy said veils are 'not welcome' as they intimidate and alienate non-Muslims, especially in a secular country like France.

    'We want a ban in public areas,' said Mr Cope, making clear that the veil would not be allowed in public buildings, nor on the streets of France, as it encourages extremism.

    Mr Cope said: 'The wearing of the burkha will be subject to a fine, probably of the 4th class, which is to say 750 euros.'

    He said the fine would apply to 'all people on the public street whose face is entirely covered'.

    The terms 'burkha' and 'niqab' often are used interchangeably in France.

    The former refers to a full-body covering worn largely in Afghanistan with only a mesh screen over the eyes, whereas the latter is a full-body veil, often in black, with slits for the eyes.

    A parliamentary inquiry into the wearing of all-body burkhas and niqabs is due to publish its recommendations next month.

    In earlier debates Mr Cope said: 'Permanently masking one's face in public spaces is not an expression of individual liberty. It's a negation of oneself, a negation of others, a negation of social life.'

    But he conceded that a complete ban faced certain legal obstacles, including a possible challenge before the European Court of Human Rights on the grounds that it limits religious freedom.

    The burkha is a full-body covering worn largely in Afghanistan with a mesh screen over the eyes, and the niqab is a full-body veil with slits for the eyes.

    President Sarkozy has called them 'a sign of subservience and debasement that imprison women', saying they are 'not welcome in France'.

    The country's immigration minister Eric Besson has also described them as 'an affront to national identity'.

    France - home to more than five million Muslims, the largest population in Europe - passed a law forbidding veils and other religious symbols in schools in 2004.

    The latest move to outlaw such garments comes as a national identity debate rages between those defending multiculturalism, and those who believe France is being overrun by foreign cultures.

    Despite the controversy, a recent police report revealed that only around 400 women across the Channel wore veils, which are common in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia but not in the North African countries where most Muslim immigrants to France came from.
     
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  3. jakojako777

    jakojako777 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Grrrrrrrrrr!!!!


    They go from one extreme to another! Filthy hypocrites those politicians!


    Even today with HUGE economic problems and joblessness they let in - tens maybe hundreds of thousands of people from (rural parts of!)Muslim countries.
    NO SELECTIVE IMMIGRATION and choosing EDUCATED PEOPLE like in USA & Canada whatsoever!
    And they pretend to be surprised now hypocrite [email protected]!

    That would NEVER happen if they only selected educated Muslims!
    No wonder that rural Muslims want to suppress indigenous population and turn Europe in their local village by imposing their tradition & religion...


    BTW good article thanks!:)
     
  4. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    this is quite effective, if they wear burqas , they can be easily identified as muslims in crowd too.
    at last they got freedom
     
  5. GokuInd

    GokuInd Regular Member

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    Do you have the latest numbers regarding migration from Islamic countries to Europe?
    As far as I know, they aren't supposed to migrate to Europe anymore (unlike back then), except for skilled labour?
     
  6. jakojako777

    jakojako777 Senior Member Senior Member

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    I can't have numbers when they are kept secret (not to upset local population)!
    But be cause I was interested on subject due to the growing economic problems now and than I would jump into the numbers.
    Some independent sources were claiming several hundred thousand of ILLEGAL emigrants EVER YEAR!
    NO reason to be less now be cause they are ILLEGAL!


    They used to come from 2 directions( the most )
    1st was Canary Islands (belong to Spain)by boat from Senegal & Mali (French speaking)
    2nd was by Turkey organized by local mafia & criminals and most of them from Iraq "refugees" (Kurdistan the most) and Afghanistan !

    They should ALL be sent to USA be cause it is USA who created them to be "refugees" in 1st place!

    Now there is new direction from Libya by boat to Malta or small Italian island where they claim to be "refugees"(they have NO passports NO ID whatsoever!)
    It is not important what EU "decides" AT ALL!

    The problem is that they NOT sending those people back so NEW ONES keep coming and later on they bring their huge families also.
    And Italy and other countries with plenty of new illegal emigrants keep legalizing them every now and then so the NEW keep coming!
    They MUST start to send them BACK or it will NEVER stop !


    What is absurd is that some EU countries even tolerate polygamy which is directly AGAINST our laws in EU!
    Some countries even give social help to polygamist households to each of several wifes !
    Which is total madness!
    No wonder that things are getting out of control!
     
  7. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    France has become the new Nazi Germany. Hopefully Muslims will not become the new Jews.
     
  8. Indianrabbit

    Indianrabbit Regular Member

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    Not the right way to implement anything. France should respect other religions sentiments.
     
  9. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    Its not a question of respecting Islam. There is nothing in Islam that requires a full face covering according to most Muslim scholars.

    Its a question of respecting what the French view as their way of life.
    The niqab and the burqa are extreme instruments of sexual subjugation regardless of the fact that many Muslim women many be willing put it on.

    Why should the French compromise the values and ethos that they have shed blood for to accomodate these obscurant types ??

    More countries should follow the French example !!!
     
  10. sandeepdg

    sandeepdg Senior Member Senior Member

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    This is an extreme way of forcing your will on people from other religions ! No way can this be termed as religious freedom, especially from a country like France which is second oldest democracy in the world after USA. What if tomorrow all countries in the middle east and many Muslim majority countries in south and east Asia like Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc. make it a strict law for non-Muslim women to cover themselves from head to toe whenever they venture out in public !! Would the people from religions other than Islam like that ? Though there have been tension India between the Hindus and Muslims time and again, but we haven't made any harsh laws like that to be forced upon Muslims in our country, especially taking in the fact that India has the third highest Muslim population in the world ! This is going to have an negative mindset against the French in the Muslim world. UK for that matter has a large no. of Muslims, but it hasn't formulated any such draconian laws, though it has already suffered terror strikes by Islamic militants !
     
  11. notinlove

    notinlove Regular Member

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    All i can do is be me, whoever that is.
    by that logic everybody in the USA should be wearing traditional RED indian clothing??
    who so ever goes to africa should remain nude??
    who so ever comes to india should wear a dhoti??
    your soldiers in iraq and afghanistan should wear their traditional warrior dress??
    and the americans living in middle east should wear clothing like the sheiks??
    have you eve heard the word secular?

    do you know what the first amendment says in your own constitution??

    or do you feel proud when somebody calls you a racist imbecile?

    if the women feel the burqa is being forced upon them they can always go to the police . there is no point in using sexual subjugation as an excuse for your own racist tendencies.
     
  12. xebex

    xebex Regular Member

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    Exterminating an Emo means one low-life less!
    I do agree with the article, Why somebody hide their face in public?? In this world of increasing terrorism, the ban of Burka in public places are justifyable.

    Suspect in terror hunt used veil to evade arrest - Times Online

    Concealed-Identity Theft: Want Bling in India? Leave Your Burqa at Home - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

    Burqa-Wearing Bandit Baffles Detectives - ABC News

    Men disguised as Muslim women rob bank | Reuters

    Burka Bandit Hits Hiddenite Bank - News Story - WSOC Charlotte

    Robber in a BURKA: Police hunt 6ft 6in jewellery store raider disguised in Muslim dress | Mail Online

    Do i need to post more links?? Burka is something that can easily be missused, i dont care if its france or US, those who wear Burka should be tharoughly checked. Thatz just my openion.

    I havent heard of anybody robbing a bank wearing traditional native Indian dress.......

    I havent heard of anyone robbing a jewelry in nude.....

    I havent heard of anyone fooling the detectives wearing dhoti.....


    No we dont, what is it??

    Dont ban Burka??

    Conclusion.....

    [​IMG]

    ^^^^ How can anybody explain this image. People are taking advantage of the drawbacks of Burka, and the crime rate involved with Burka is increasing. There should be some mechanism to control it.
     
  13. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    Dude...You are the imbecile here.

    There is a big difference between wearing a burqa and a sari or a malay sarong kebaya or a Japanese Kimono.

    The french have no problem if any woman was wearing a Sari, Sarong Kebaya, or Kimono or any other national costume of any ethnic or religious origin.

    If you want to be modest you can cover every inch of you body from your toes to the edge of your neck including your fingers - The French have no problem with that. But your face has to be exposed. A person with their face covered completely becomes a "faceless person" . There is something fundamentally degrading about that.

    Their main point of contention here is they do not want women or anybody covering their entire face.

    Do you really think that a young Muslim woman in France who hates wearing a burqa but is forced to by her family, is going to go to the police and turn in her own parents ??

    Are you that bloody naive, despite having lived with Muslims.

    Just because an educated Muslim woman wants to wear a burqa does not mean that it is a simple personal decision. What happens when your kindergarden age son or daughter comes home from school saying that he is frightened of the teacher who is covered in all black.

    How would you like teachers, nurses, etc covered in all black from head to toe delivering services and teaching your children.

    This actually happened in France. The woman teacher who sudenly became very religious decided to don a burqa and teach children. The school fired her and she then turned around and tried to sue the school for discrimination.

    BTW: You need to find out what secular means. There are few countries that value their secularism more than the French.
     
  14. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    Xebex,

    What a splendid excuse. Yes, you're right, security is important. So let's go the full measure, shall we?

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    ^^^^ How can anybody explain these images. People are taking advantage of the drawbacks of sunglasses, ski masks, hoodies, and Halloween masks, and the crime rate involved with sunglasses, ski masks, hoodies, and Halloween masks is increasing. There should be some mechanism to control it.

    Let us fine or jail people who wear sunglasses, Halloween masks, hooded sweatshirts and ski masks too.

    :rolleyes:
     
  15. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    Is it? And nude beaches are not degrading? So it is OK if you walk around naked, but not OK if you cover your face?

    And the government is going to decide what I wear? I thought we had moved out of the Dark Ages.

    No government has the right to impose a dress code on its citizens. Whether the majority of French citizens support such a law or not is irrelevant. This is a matter of principle. A matter of human rights.

    Hitler was elected by Germans too. But that sole reason cannot make his ideology above reproach, and neither can the French be forgiven by the rest of the world if they seek to victimise and oppress their minority groups.

    France has attacked the bedrock upon which civilized democracies are based. The principle of personal and religious freedom. From here, it can only be a downward spiral.


    It is then your responsibility to teach your kids the meaning of religious tolerance. Your decision to abdicate your responsibilities as a parent is yours alone, and no one else, least the teacher, who is merely wearing what she prefers, should be persecuted for your ineptness.

    If you fear teachers, nurses etc delivering services and teaching your children, then it is obvious that you'd rather have your xenophobic phobias dictate the future of your child rather than the actual teaching/nursing abilities of the individual whatever their outfit.
     
  16. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    Feeble argument !!

    Nude beaches are at specific places. If you are offended by nude beaches, then just dont go there. No one is putting a gun to your head, and making you go to a nude beach.

    If you walk around stark naked in any major city in Europe or anywhere in the West, you will be arrested for public indecency(because you may be offending people in public).

    There is a difference between a nude beach, and walking around butt naked in the city !!

    The widespread use of burqas by muslims in France does not give the french people any options in dealing with them. If you go to a government office and the only officer serving you is wearing a burqa, then you have no choice in the matter but to deal with the faceless zombie.

    Human face allows us to communicate our feeling emotions, etc.
    If you want to walk around in a burqa inside your own home, then that's your call. But why should the rest of the world have to deal with you ??
     
  17. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    How silly. I don't think any office hires customer relations employees who wear burqas, so your argument is absurd. Any employee contract obviously includes dress code in the workplace, so anyone violating it can be fired. Heck, most companies will just cite "incompetence" or "insubordination" or some other excuse to fire employees if they have to.

    So don't deal. But that doesn't give you the right to dictate to me what I can and cannot wear.
     
  18. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    Yes...you can certainly fire them, but they can also sue you if the country does not ennact any laws banning the burqa.

    That is exactly what happened in the case of the teacher who came in with the burqa. She got fired and then raised a hell-storm in the media and sued the school. Can every small school afford to be sued ??

    What happens if a woman wearing a burqa applies for a job at a small business and other employees around her are not comfortable with the idea of working next to a "faceless zombie". Is the employer going to get sued if he outright rejects the application, even if she is qualified for the job ??

    Think about all the social implications that something like this creates in an open society, before you start yapping !!
     
  19. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    What BS. I don't know if you've ever applied or gotten a job in the real world, but a potential employer doesn't have to give any reason for not selecting a particular candidate. The laws against discrimination in the hiring process exist on paper only. No candidate can ever prove that she was rejected because she told the interviewer that she wears or plans to wear the burqa.

    I'd be interested in hearing what happened to the case where the school got sued. In any case, the finances of "any small school" would be infinitely greater than those of an unemployed teacher. So yea, they can afford to get sued, and if they win, which would most likely be the case with such a frivolous lawsuit, the teacher will have to pay for their legal costs.

    The finances of any institution, even a small business will obviously be much greater than that of any service class individual.
     
  20. notinlove

    notinlove Regular Member

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    All i can do is be me, whoever that is.
    by all means go ahead and ban the burqa and the veil ......
    then ban the quran also , i don't give a rats a** ..since i am not going to europe or america anytime soon and am not even a muslim...

    but just a word of advice ..please don't be surprised when they call you the OPPRESSOR , and land in your cities with bombs strapped to their chests.

    remember ..there's just so much you can push somebody before he retaliates.
     
  21. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    difference between burqa and nikab

    [​IMG]

    its for only who dont know difference.
     

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