56 inch territory give away like Mr N ?

Discussion in 'Subcontinent & Central Asia' started by roma, Aug 3, 2015.

  1. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    Ref the recent border resolution with Bangladesh

    I saw a thread on it but not much discussion over what should be an important matter

    Basically we lost 10,000 acres of land including strategic water resources, in exchange for “ goodwill “. ?????

    just like Mr N gave Gilgit “Baltistan” away to Pakistan as goodwill ???

    Are we learning anything through the decades ??? from what I understand the Indian enclaves included Strategic water resource control areas plus the enclaves would give Indian jurisdiction and access to other parts of Bangladeshi territory and could be used as important staging areas for further military incursion if necessary.


    Another matter was that , well, we have undefined borders with “ccpland” and also “packland”. …… so it was good to settle this third problem……but why ? …. Bd is not some great threat to us ? is it ??


    Why did we not negotiate to get the connections from our eastern tip to the sea so we have an alternate route from the our east coast the northeastern annexe areas ?

    Which leads me to ask ….. when goo goes into such negotiations, do they go for a win, or a win-win or do they negotiate for this so called vague goodwill for which we have seen the fruits in the case of “packland”

    Well ….. holding out the possibility , hope that there could be more to this in our favour
    Most grateful for your comments,


    R
    ref @bose @brational @blueblood @anupamsurey @ersakthivel @Blackwater @cobra commando @Hari Sud @Kunal Biswas @LETHALFORCE @mhk99 @pmaitra @Rowdy @Sakal Gharelu Ustad @Srinivas_K @sorcerer @TejasMK3 @Yusuf @jackprince @Bangalorean @indiandefencefan @aliyah @hit&run @VIP @Razor @Blood+ @Screambowl @Sylex21 @angeldude13 @DingDong @Zebra @Neil @tsunami @OneGrimPilgrim @bengalraider @indiandefencefan
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2015
    rohit.gr77 likes this.
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  3. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    @roma

    I don't think any strategic water resources exist in the exchanged bits of land . Modi is just clearing up low hanging fruits. Both bangladesh issue and naga issue were more or less decided long time back, but needed political will to close them.

    Issues with China and Pak cannot be resolved at a domestic level, These bigger issues require some amount of international manoeuvring.

    As far as loosing 10000 acres(not sure if this is true), Modi has shown before in the case of maritime boundary dispute with bangladesh issue that the guy doesn't mind sacrificing small things for long term peaceful relationships.

    Trust this helps.
     
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  4. salute

    salute Senior Member Senior Member

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    @roma bangladeshi also give almost same amount of territory to india in exchange, maybe you know nothing,
    get the correct info before commenting and wrongly accusing modi.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
  5. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    my threads and posts are always to encourage debate and discussion if you cant handle that then keep clear of them and meanwhile i will remember not to refer to you

    maybe you know nothing so then please educate by reading this >

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ptions-in-bangladesh/articleshow/47568946.cms

    and if you can read the title it says >
    India may have lost land & water resources, but it gains much by reshaping perceptions in Bangladesh
    so the title claims loss of water resources and by the way the article states that >
    (The writer is a professor and dean at the Jindal School of International Affairs)
    so unless you also accuse that he knows nothing ?
    Read more at:
    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
    it is your own Indian publication

    also can educate by reading :
    http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-to-lose-10-000-acres-in-land-swap-deal-with-bangladesh-447296
    and again the titile reads
    India to lose 10,000 acres in land swap deal with Bangladesh

    so please read , to know something , before accusing others
    no way am i against modi but there is place for debate and discussion in a democracy _ unless you are from china
    ps no offence - dont be fooled by the avtar, i have worked as a defence consultant previously :biggrin2: heheheheheh
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
  6. salute

    salute Senior Member Senior Member

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    maybe you should change your profile pic then,
    why these profile pics ???
    someone claiming to such highly educated and worked as defence consultant shouldnt be having such profile pics because thats not gonna make that someone credible,

    quoting ndtv which is a modi bashing channel,
    and check this link,
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India%E2%80%93Bangladesh_enclaves
    after exchanging enclaves india got 7110 acres but had to give up land which 10,000 acres more than what india got,
    so what these enclaves were the disputes since independence these were distributed properly by congressi 70 years ago then we should be having this 'discussion',
    instead congressi were busy in muslim votes from bangladeshi country,
    and now its resolved,
    but modi bashing ndtv are emphasizing on that only and presenting it in different manner to accuse modi,
    maybe you should tell how many acres were stolen from india by pakis during congressi regime and why ndtv is not demanding answers from them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
  7. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    A clear and unambiguous border was needed to prevent future escalation of terrorism and other anti social activities from across the eastern border. ISI has a strong position in these areas and they would use any confusion to their advantage.

    Its a good move with a lot of political will for a long term solution. Such disputes had to be settled looong back.
    Well!! Good fences make good neighbors.
     
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  8. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Modi worship has become a fashion here... What fucking goodwill are we going to generate with this shit that was not generated when we saved BD asses from being raped by Pakis in 1971.

    Seems like Indian morons never learn . first they lost territory to srilanka which is costing us even today for our fishermen and now they are losing to Paki cousins BD, those little ungrateful pos claiming the same bs that it will generate goodwill.

    At least congis lacked the will to admit they are pussies. But here comes BJP and proudly donating(and proudly admitting they are pussies) 10000 acres of land to BD. What's next? Donating land to Pakistan and Chicoms for goodwill. And these pigs have the gall themselves nationalists
     
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  9. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Forget akhand bharat , first save our own bharat by protecting its land ass holes :mad:
     
    roma likes this.
  10. Rowdy

    Rowdy Co ja kurwa czytam! Senior Member

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    RELAX
    few points about the so called territory give away.
    a) The territory to "give away" was signed in 70's itself after BD liberation.
    b) The territory was useless ... and why is that .. because India-BD was the only border to have triple enclaves... that means BD surrounded Indian territory which surrounded BD territory :lol:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/India–Bangladesh_enclaves
    I do not deny that India (Not Modi) gave away some territory to have a better sealable border. But the decision will keep paying far into the future IMO.

    @Mad Indian
     
  11. angeldude13

    angeldude13 Lestat De Lioncourt Senior Member

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    @roma Well sometimes back I saw a video on youtube which explained the complexity of indo bangla border.
    Actually I have no idea about the basis on which the land was given to Bangladesh. So I would refrain to comment further.
     
  12. salute

    salute Senior Member Senior Member

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    @roma
    this is fastest way out of dispute,
    modi did not surrendered any land to anyone,
    why dont understand that these enclaves were the disputes and belonged to their respective countries in first place,
    they ought to be given to their countries as agreed decades ago,
    now its well defined and established border,

    or else what keep the stupid dispute going for another 70 years,
    or what start a war with neighbor country on what basis,
    united nations supported india on multiple occasions,will they gonna support india on this war,

    the dispute with china and pakis is different they forcefully occupied land of india in kashmir,
    no agreement or dispute there its clearly said by india that their is no compromise in that kashmir issue,
    while the matter of arunachal pradesh with china,india accepted that there is border dispute.
     
  13. salute

    salute Senior Member Senior Member

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    @roma ,@Mad Indian
    before cursing modi over 10,000 acres, ask congressi that,
    india had won whole so called bangladeshi country and captured whole east paki army in 1965 war then why they let it go ???

    it was bengal originally,
    after war they should had terminated all the paki filth,
    and then they should have given all the power of that region to bengali hindus,
    and annexed it back to india,then was the chance,
    they fought war and won and then declared it separate and muslim country with new name, what change that made ???
    it was already separated muslim country before,

    modi has a lot of work to do and resolving other matters of north east region lying around for 70 years and not just this dispute of bangladeshi border,
    this resolving of dispute maybe gonna help those other dispute.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2015
  14. Sylex21

    Sylex21 Regular Member

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    Basically the issue is more complex than you realize. It is not as simple as "giving up" some amount of land, the land was impossible to govern in the first place. The deal was agreed by the Congress party, before the BJP took power.

    The deal is a win win and good for everyone. India is giving up more land, because more enclaves are surrounded by Bangladesh, than the other way around. India will also have a permanent boarder which it can now completely fence.

    The heart of the issue is also the plight of about 50,000 people that have been in a living hell because they have no government, utilities, police force, services or protections.

    If you still think the deal is a bad idea, just look up the plight of the people living there and you will realize how necessary it was, and what a monumental humanitarian achievement it is.
     
    roma likes this.
  15. salute

    salute Senior Member Senior Member

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    when congressi agreed on this agreement in 2013 ???
    couple of years before election ??? when
    congressi had to save their ass in the election thats why they agreed.
     
  16. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    you said ndtv is a modi bashing channel
    but you didn't dare mention the other reference i gave
    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ptions-in-bangladesh/articleshow/47568946.cms
    wherein Professor and Dean of the School of Jindal university gave his summary opinion in the title that strategic water resources were lost but chose not to go into detail probably for defence reasons an we have to respect that

    Now Jindal U school of intl relations is a topper and the professor who wrote the article is well known in Hong Kong and Singapore and his bio is online for reference


    goi took a gamble ....are they right or wrong ...we are allowed to debate within certain limits
    we are here to discuss and debate and we do so in a civilized manner without making personal references ...........

    thanks ! your reply makes much sense to me ... and so i gave it a like ....... , not that we couldnt figure that out ourselves ....but anyway , thanks

    except for your tough language in the above two posts for once in a blue moon we seem to be on the same page ......i too had grown rather weary of seeing india always be the one to give territory away to neighbours with out receiving so much as a thank you .... especially in the case of Gilgit balitistan plus India-s crazy policy of on one hand laying claim to the said GB but instead our mr N gave it away for UN jurisdiction when the indian army was a mere 4 days away from total victory ....

    so this episode was yet another give away !!!

    we lost 10,000 acres which is equal to 40 square km ... and there are those on this forum who say it is nothing ......then why does china claim the fingerpoint area near sikkim , ( http://www.worldsecuritynetwork.com/China-India/Ramachandran-Sudha/China-toys-with-Indias-border )

    ask israel what they can do with another 40 sq km , they would surely put it to great use, just as would singapore , hong kong or macau .

    and we are hoping for goodwill from a nation where the Hindu population has not so mysteriously dwindled from 37% to about 5 % ?? .... not impossible but i would rather we had hedged our bets by holding onto some strategic resources ....well hah !

    for reference and invitation to debate :- @angeldude13 @bose @brational @blueblood @anupamsurey @ersakthivel @Blackwater @bengalraider @cobra commando @DingDong @Hari Sud @Kunal Biswas @LETHALFORCE @mhk99 @Neil @OneGrimPilgrim @pmaitra @Rowdy @Sakal Gharelu Ustad @Srinivas_K @sorcerer @TejasMK3 @Yusuf @jackprince @Bangalorean @indiandefencefan @aliyah @hit&run @VIP @Razor @Blood+ @Screambowl @Sylex21 @tsunami @Zebra
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
  17. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    India-Bangla land swap: was the world's strangest border created by a game of chess?

    Parliament on Wednesday passed the historic Constitution (119th Amendment) bill, which will put in effect a four- decade-old agreement between India and Bangladesh to redraw their shared border.

    Some people have claimed that the bill will resolve a border dispute between the two countries. This is not so. Unlike its relations with China or Pakistan, India has no boundary squabble with Bangladesh. Each country is in perfect agreement over where the border lies. The issue is that this mutually agreed-on border is ridiculously complex, causing difficulties to not only the two governments but also the people trapped inside this cartographical maze. The bill seeks to swap land and redraw a more normal border.

    What was wrong with the border?

    The northern part of the India-Bangladeshi border is dotted with hundred of enclaves, called chhits in Bangla (meaning fragments).

    An enclave is a little pocket of land surrounded completely by another country’s territory.Enclaves aren’t that rare and there are a few around the world, mostly in Europe. The most famous enclave probably is the Vatican City, surrounded completely by Italy. And some of them have played a historical part: one of the reasons why the Nazis invaded Poland in 1939, setting off World War II, was due to tensions over East Prussia, a German enclave in Poland.

    Nowhere, however, are they as numerous as in north Bengal. India possesses 106 enclaves of territory inside the Bangladeshi mainland. Bangladesh has 92 little pockets inside India. Most of these are ridiculously small and their total area is a little above 100 square kilometres. The smallest enclave, Upan Chowki Bhaini is all of 53 square metres – about the size of an average Mumbai flat.

    It gets more complex: of these, 24 are counter-enclaves. Which means, an enclave within an enclave. So, for example, you’ll have a piece of Bangladeshi within Indian which, in turn, is within Bangladesh, a little like a Russian matryoshka doll.


    But there’s still one more level: one of these is a counter-counter-enclave, the only one of its kind in the world. Dahala Khagrabari is a piece of India within Bangladesh, which is within India which, in turn, is within Bangladesh.

    If this is too complex, here’s a schematic diagram.

    How did it get to be like this?

    Local legend has it that three centuries ago, the Raja of Cooch Behar and the faujdaar of a district in Mughal Bengal played chess with local villages as wager. These matches must have been closely fought, since neither player won a clean victory and pockets of land were left behind in Mughal and Cooch Behari territory.

    More boringly, but also probably more accurately, academic Brendon Whyte from the University of Melbourne, describes how a war between the Mughals and the north Bengal princely state of Cooch Behar might have led to this peculiar situation. The war ended with a peace treaty in 1713, an overall Mughal victory, but it seems the Mughals were unable to evict some of the more powerful Cooch Behari zamindars from their lands, even as they had conquered the territory around those lands. Conversely, in some cases, Mughal soldiers had captured some estates within the kingdom of Cooch Behar, whom the king did not have the power to expel.

    Since Cooch Behar had now, to use RR Martin’s term, bent the knee and was paying tribute to Delhi, these enclaves didn’t bother the Mughals that much. Mughal India was a feudal empire, not a modern nation state. Land was not really imbued with any sacredness for it, and as long as the Emperor was getting his tribute, he was fine with the way things were.

    Soon enough, the British Raj took over the possession of the Mughals. Which wasn’t really an issue either, since Cooch Behar was subordinate to the British Raj, another Empire.

    An international issue

    These dormant enclaves suddenly turned out to be an international flashpoint when the British left India. In 1947, when Sir Cyril Radcliffe was slicing up the cake of British India between India and Pakistan, he didn’t tamper with these enclaves since Cooch Behar was a princely state, not a part of British India. In 1947, therefore, the Cooch Behari enclaves which were once in Mughal India and then in British India, were transferred to India and Pakistan. In turn, Pakistan and India ended up with enclaves, once owned by the Mughals, in Cooch Behar.

    The Indian enclave issue was solved in 1949, as Cooch Behar acceded to Delhi, one of the last princely states to do so. Now this was well and truly an international issue with Indian enclaves in East Pakistan (later Bangladesh) and Pakistani enclaves in India (earlier Cooch Behar).

    Efforts to solve it

    Logically, India and Pakistan exchanging their enclaves was a patently obvious solution to the issue. Enclaves (in all cases other than one) meant the country which had sovereignty over the land had no de facto control over it anyway. Moreover, it made the lives of people living in those enclaves terrible since they were, in effect, stateless.

    Logic, though, is usually in short supply when it comes to Indo-Pakistan disputes and the issue has festered right up till now. Obtuseness in this matter is typified by Dohogram, a Pakistani enclave in India, the only one in which the state was present. Pakistani policemen were stationed there with India’s permission. In times of tension, when India did not give permission, Pakistani police would simply scoot over, dodging Indian fire, given that the enclave was only 85 metres from the Pakistani mainland. An international game of tag, with its own safe zone.

    In 1965, in fact, the two nations fought a two-week battle over this small parcel of land. In the end, Pakistan surrendered, a ceasefire was negotiated and Pakistani citizens were allowed back into the enclave.

    This jingoistic belligerence meant that this simple issue became intractable. Jawaharlal Nehru and Pakistani Prime Minister Feroze Khan Noon did arrive at an agreement in 1958, which was later ratified by Pakistan. However, writes historian Willem Van Schendel from the University of Amsterdam, “it became a sensitive political issue in India, where oppositional parties branded it an unconstitutional act”. The subsequent 1965 war meant that an agreement with Pakistan was politically untenable for any Indian government.

    Indira-Mujib Agreement

    Another chance came in 1974, after the creation of Bangladesh, with the signing of the Indira-Mujib Agreement, which negotiated a swap of enclaves. The agreement was ratified by Bangladesh’s parliament but, just like the Nehru-Noon Agreement, it became a victim of internal politics in India, as state leaders in West Bengal and Assam forced Delhi to not operationalise the treaty, which has hung in limbo till the present.

    India was intransigent on this issue since the land swap would mean a net loss of land for it, about 40 square kilometres, equal to the size of a city neighbourhood. Of course, this area is insignificant compared to the benefits a conventional border would bring. But land is an emotive issue and an easy target for politicians looking for a handle. “We shall not allow an inch of Assam’s land to be handed over to Bangladesh,” thundered Chandra Mohan Patowary, president of the Asom Gana Parishad, in 2011, illustrating the political difficulties that crop up in such a situation.

    In opposition, the Bharatiya Janata Party, in fact, opposed moves by the Manmohan Singh government to ratify the Indira-Mujib Agreement in 2011. Narendra Modi, however, changed his mind when he came to power, telling Bangladesh Prime Minster Sheikh Hasina, “aap mujh pe bharosa rakhiye” (trust me), on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly meeting last September.

    Like every Central government before it, though, Modi faced tough opposition from West Bengal and Assam. In fact, till the last moment, Assam was to be excluded from this present deal, given pressure from the state BJP unit. However, last minute firefighting meant that Modi got everyone on board and managed to iron out a 300-year old problem.


    http://scroll.in/article/725804/ind...rangest-border-was-created-by-a-game-of-chess
    ======

    Well!! We "kinda" solved the problem of "STATELESS ACTORS" to an extent....the term we started hearing since a loooooong time from ISI controlled Pakistan Establishment which has its foot prints in Bangladesh.

    ====

    BTW, Israel has a strip of land called Gaza Stip which is now the cauldron of terrorists brew.

    Could these enclaves be developed as Hongkong or Macau before it turns into terrorist heavens with underage kiddos injected with adrenaline of hate waiting for 72 virgins given the current geopolitical scenario?


    IMO Even if such islands could be made into awesome places like Hongkong there should be a strict authority under a sovereign govt.
    Could these HongKong Macau etc develop into awesome places without an established authority taking control?

    Anyidea on how climate changes effect these tiny strips of land? Any forecast on them? How viable are these enclaves as some sort of asset in current world?
     
  18. punjab47

    punjab47 महाबलामहावीर्यामहासत्यपराक्रमासर्वाग्रेक्षत्रियाजट Banned

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    Personal references?

    Suggest ms nri learn how Indian society works before, talking of 'hindus'

    Woman primary role is reproduction, i.e not only having the kids but raising them to have strong wills & character.

    Both of these things, ONLY a woman can do but not some chadee wearing whore posting pics of herself online.

    I don't mean you personally, because why would any good man want to get 'personal' with a characterless woman?

    Suggest you understand, & realize this as you are on an INDIAN forum; & India is going to remain how it is in Mahabharata not your Portuguese communist Marxist classes which say it is progress for girl to lose virginity before marriage.

    Have some shame, entire western dating 'culture' is just codified prostitution. Lol, they are conquered by abrahamics nothing they have to offer. Your concepts of 'freedom' 'rights' well woman is part of family.

    If someone was attacking my family, & instead of dying protecting them I said I have right to be free from this 'obligation' I would not be a Hindu I would be less than a kanjar.

    As a woman, you are basically doing the same thing along with your other feminazis. Just traitors,


    Anyway fact is, if this allows bigger fence = less muzzies w.e there is worse stuff in world.

    Modi doval probably just trying to quiet east to focus on West.

    ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾ||ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਹਿ||
     
  19. salute

    salute Senior Member Senior Member

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    what that professor says,what difference that makes its just one person saying different than govt.
    does the professor had some better solution for the dispute ???
    it was about resolving dispute for once and not snatching land,

    can you explain this,
    in war with east paki,india had won entire east paki why didnt congressi took those water resources ??? why kept it in dispute ??? even when india had won and completely defeated east paki and imprisoned their whole army,
    what was point in winning that war ???

    indira gandhi murdered and no other congressi had courage to do something about it,

    if taking those land was not easy then,what make its easier now,
    now professor is shouting against modi after decades, that he gave away land.
     
  20. roma

    roma NRI in Europe Senior Member

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    well done your profile says banned ?

    ah when you know more than the professsor,, that's just great
     
  21. salute

    salute Senior Member Senior Member

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    maybe professor has his own agenda,
    and you dont have any answerand just keep quoting him.
     

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