500,1000 Rs Note no longer legal tender!!

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Khagesh

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There is life post these elections. In fact, the real fun will start post these election results, in April probably, particularly if the results are in BJP favor.

Besides, those who have deposited cores are hardly common men and rest assured, they will be inconvenienced. :lol:

Look if after winning 350 seats this is the condition of Modi then I guess you need to fear for the Sanghis winning.

Confidence on 08.11.16
Mirth on 11.11.16
Crying on 13.11.16
Appoints another imported brain gain (Viral something) in some random GoI outfit a few days later.
Fails to admit the count of the deaths on the queues itself what to say of those who died even while they could not come upto the queues.
Promises a great future but then gives pittance on 31.12.2016.
Refuses to give a white paper on the estimate of blackmoney or the costs borne by the country in his experiment
Finally never admits to why he needed such huge sums of money all of a sudden. Even while an ordinance is being proposed to encash the windfall.

Uttar Pradesh ki jeet aapko mubarak ho ji. Bahut Bahut mubarak. Dilli taur pay mubarak. Hosenei Mubarak. Khair mubarak. :D
 

Nicky G

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Look if after winning 350 seats this is the condition of Modi then I guess you need to fear for the Sanghis winning.

Confidence on 08.11.16
Mirth on 11.11.16
Crying on 13.11.16
Appoints another imported brain gain (Viral something) in some random GoI outfit a few days later.
Fails to admit the count of the deaths on the queues itself what to say of those who died even while they could not come upto the queues.
Promises a great future but then gives pittance on 31.12.2016.
Refuses to give a white paper on the estimate of blackmoney or the costs borne by the country in his experiment
Finally never admits to why he needed such huge sums of money all of a sudden. Even while an ordinance is being proposed to encash the windfall.

Uttar Pradesh ki jeet aapko mubarak ho ji. Bahut Bahut mubarak. Dilli taur pay mubarak. Hosenei Mubarak. Khair mubarak. :D
Again with the retarded Sanghi nonsense. How much of an AAP tard are you?
 

Khagesh

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Ok the evening news.

First the unreal-real news. I don't know how RBI has failed to collect info/intel/database on such an important matter?

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...sation-rti/articleshow/56592150.cms?prtpage=1
RBI has no data on scams in co-op banks post demonetisation: RTI
By IANS | Updated: Jan 16, 2017, 01.49 PM IST

"However, according to its reply under the RTI, the RBI does not seem to have any data to justify its conclusion of widespread irregularities and scandals in exchanging the old currency notes vide state and district cooperatives banks across the country," Galgali told IANS, showing the terse RBI communication.

"I sought facts on the actual ground reality of these accusations made by the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party leaders against the cooperative banks which severely affected the non-urban populace," Galgali said.





Now the real news. India Spends has done some good reporting during demonetisation phase-1.

http://www.firstpost.com/india/demo...ses-modi-still-viewed-favourably-3205938.html
IndiaSpendJan, 16 2017 11:53:39 IST

On days 54 and 55, IndiaSpend visited 24 mom-and-pop shops in Mumbai and semi-urban, peri-urban and rural areas north to it, to assess notebandi‘s impact on small retail stores. We found that across Palghar, Thane and Mumbai districts of the Mumbai metropolitan region:
  • Nearly 80 percent of all respondents reported losses between 50 percent and 60 percent or greater.
  • Less than 38 percent of all stores–predominantly located in urban areas–have adapted to point-of-sale (PoS) machines or mobile-wallets, while kirana shops in rural parts still depend only on cash.
  • Half of those we surveyed supported notebandi, while a greater proportion (58 percent) continues to view Modi favourably.
 

sayareakd

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https://www.rbi.org.in/scripts/NotificationUser.aspx?Id=10826&Mode=0

RBI/2016-17/213
DCM (Plg) No.2559/10.27.00/2016-17

January 16, 2017

The Chairman / Managing Director / Chief Executive Officer,
Public Sector Banks / Private Sector Banks / Foreign Banks /
Regional Rural Banks / Urban Co-operative Banks /
State Co-operative Banks/District Central Co-operative Banks

Dear Sir,

Enhancement of withdrawal limits from ATMs and Current Accounts

Please refer to our circulars DCM (Plg) No. 1274, 1317, 1437 and 2142/10.27.00/2016-17 dated November 14, 21 and 28 and December 30, 2016, respectively, on the above subject.

2. On a review of limits placed on withdrawals from ATMs and current accounts, it has been decided to enhance the same, with immediate effect as under:

(i) The limit on withdrawals from ATMs has been enhanced from the current limit of ₹ 4,500/- to ₹ 10,000/- per day per card (It will be operative within the existing overall weekly limit).

(ii) The limit on withdrawal from current accounts has been enhanced from the current limit of ₹ 50,000/- per week to ₹ 1,00,000/- per week and it extends to overdraft and cash credit accounts also.


3. There are no changes in the other conditions. The relaxations as provided in our circular dated November 28, 2016 will continue.

4. Please acknowledge receipt.

Yours faithfully,

(P Vijaya Kumar)
Chief General Manager
 

OneGrimPilgrim

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Demonetization is being compared to "bengal famine" and Nazi gas chambers. Well the first part is true, bengal's fake printing press has shut down so you can call it a famine.

Paki authors are being quoted as well.

by Gideon Polya.

The demonetisation of Rs. 500 and Rs. 1000 notes by the government of Prime Minister Narendra Modi is disproportionately impacting the poor of India. Presently 4.5 million Indians die avoidably from deprivation each year and demonetisation will make this worse by increasing poverty, deprivation and disempowerment. Indians must reject this callous and deadly attack on the poor, reject deadly pro-One Percenter neoliberalism and demand social justice via social humanism (democratic socialism).

Countercurrents.org editor Binu Mathew has written: “In a cashless / digital money India Big Brother would be watching 24/7. The digitally illiterate vast majority would be driven out of circulation like the old notes. It’s a long process, perhaps more lethal than Hitler’s “Final Solution”. More people died in World War II Bengal famine than Hitler’s gas chambers. Did it make it at least into the footnotes of Indian history? Demonetised India doesn’t need gas chambers, hunger will do the job!” [1].

Unfortunately Binu Matthew is essentially correct and indeed quite conservative in his estimation. Poverty and disempowerment combine to constitute a deadly deprivation in India today that is already linked to an annual avoidable mortality of 4.5 million Indians each year as estimated from mortality data from the UN Population Division [2]. Avoidable mortality (avoidable death, excess mortality, excess death, untimely death, deaths that should not happen) is the difference between actual deaths in a country in a given period and deaths that would be expected if that country were at peace and subject to humane governance [3]. Demonetisation will make this horrendous Indian avoidable mortality holocaust worse by increasing poverty, deprivation and disempowerment.

The annual mortality in India (2017 population 1,350 million [2]) is 7.3 deaths per 1,000 of population [2]. However for poor and high birth rate but decently governed countries the annual death rate is about 4 deaths per 1,000 of population [3], the difference being 7.3- 4.0 = 3.3 avoidable deaths per 1,000 of population per year and accordingly 3.3 avoidable deaths per 1,000 of population x 1.35 thousand million people = 4.46 million avoidable Indian deaths from deprivation every year. It must be noted that a total of 17 million people presently die avoidably each year from deprivation in the Developing World (minus China) [3]. In contrast, annual avoidable death is effectively zero (0) for China, South Korea, Japan, Western Europe, and the colonization-derived countries of the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Apartheid Israel [3].

4.46 million or about 4.5 million avoidable Indian deaths every year in “the world’s biggest democracy” means that untimely Indian deaths every 2 years exceed the carnage of the WW2 Jewish Holocaust (5-6 million Jews killed by violence or imposed deprivation in 1941-1945) [4] or of the WW2 Bengali Holocaust (Bengal Famine) in which the British with Australian complicity deliberately starved 6-7 million Indians to death in 1942-1945 for strategic reasons in Bengal, Orissa, Bihar and Assam [5-14], Australia being complicit by withholding grain from its huge wartime wheat stores from starving India [5]. When the price of rice rose up to 4-fold (for a variety of complex reasons), those living at the edge (notably land-less labourers) could not buy food and perished under merciless British rule.

The appalling 4.5 million avoidable deaths each year in ostensibly democratic but neoliberal India as compared to zero (0) in authoritarian but pluralistic and altruistic China is testament to the abolition of endemic poverty in China but not in India. The ostensibly free but One Percenter-owned Mainstream media of India are able to report the explicit, publicly-visible horrors of war, terrorism and famine but fail to report the worsening avoidable mortality holocaust occurring behind closed doors. Thus it has been estimated that in 2003 about 3.7 million Indians died avoidably from deprivation as compared to the 4.5 million such deaths expertly predicted for 2017 [3]. But just as Western media still overwhelmingly ignore the WW2 Bengali Holocaust (6-7 million avoidable Indian deaths from deprivation in Bengal and neighbouring states in 1942-1945), so Indian media largely ignore the worsening Indian avoidable mortality holocaust (presently about 4.5 million avoidable deaths from deprivation each year).

Indian famine expert and 1998 Nobel Laureate for Economics, Amartya Sen, and his colleague Jean Drèze commented thus on media reportage and avoidable deaths from deprivation (1995): “The contrast is especially striking in comparing the experiences of China and India. The particular fact that China, despite its much greater achievements in reducing endemic deprivation, experienced a gigantic famine during 1958-1961 (a famine in which, it is now estimated, 23 to 30 million people died), had a good deal to do with lack of press freedom and the absence of political opposition. The disastrous policies that paved the way to the famine were not changed for three years as the famine raged on, and this was made possible by the near-total suppression of news about the famine and total absence of media criticism of what was then happening in China… However, it appears that even an active press, as in India, can be less than effective in moving governments to act decisively against endemic under-nutrition and deprivation – as opposed to dramatically visible famines. The quiet persistence of “regular hunger” kills millions in a slow and non-dramatic way , and this phenomenon has not been much affected, it appears, by media critiques” [15].

Thus the World is well aware of the 1958-1961 famine in China (23-30 million deaths) that was associated with the Great Leap Forward but is overwhelmingly unaware of the hundreds of millions of “slow and undramatic” avoidable deaths from deprivation under the British and post-Independence. Using Indian census data 1870-1950, assuming an Indian population of about 200 million in the period 1760-1870, and estimating by interpolation from available data an Indian avoidable death rate in (deaths per 1,000 of population per year) of 37 (1757-1920), 35 (1920-1930), 30 (1930-1940) and 24 (1940-1950), one can estimate Indian excess deaths (avoidable deaths, untimely deaths) of 592 million (1757-1837), 497 million (1837-1901) and 418 million (1901-1947), roughly 1.5 billion in total or 1.8 billion including the Native States. However after Independence the avoidable death rate dropped dramatically to circa 3.5 deaths per 1,000 of population per year by 2003 (2003 population 1,057 million), with 1950-2005 avoidable deaths from deprivation totalling about 350 million [16].

Brilliant Indian writer and activist Arundhati Roy has provided a succinct explanation for Mainstream lying by omission over appalling social realities (2004): “The ultimate privilege of the élite is not just their deluxe lifestyles, but deluxe lifestyles with a clear conscience” [17]. It must be recognized that ignoring horrendous realities and lying by omission are far, far worse than repugnant lying by commission (explicit lying) because the latter can at least be refuted and admit the possibility of public discussion [18, 19].

Demonitisation is worsening the conditions of the poor of India and will thus inevitably contribute to a worsening of the killing of “millions in a slow and non-dramatic way” that presently stands at about 4.5 million avoidable Indian deaths from deprivation each year.

Demonetisation has led to a cash shortage that disproportionately affects the poor. The poor have limited cash to buy food, farmers have limited cash to pay rural labourers to harvest food, farmers are having trouble selling harvested food, and the result is real deprivation and hunger [20]. West Bengal chief minister Mamata Banerjee has claimed (January 2017) that the demonetisation of Rs. 500 and Rs. 1000 notes (announced by Prime Minister Narendra Modi on November 8, 2016) could lead to suffering and famine for the poorest: “The decision to demonetise the currency has led to severe hardship among the poor and the marginalised. In many areas, labour is not available to harvest the grains from the field. In other parts of the state, farmers are not able to earn money from cultivation of vegetables as demand has slowed down and people are cutting consumption… Tea sellers who used to earn Rs500 a day are now unable to find customers due to shortage of currency. This Rs2,000-note has created more confusion and hardships for the people. This happens when the leadership loses connection with people” [21, 22].

News World India has commented on the massive move to a cashless society: “On November 8, all Rs 500 and Rs 1,000 notes were made invalid. Was this a masterstroke by Prime Minister Narendra Modi? He must have had a noble intention behind this decision but, economic prudence can never allow that 86 percent of the money should be removed from circulation… But, what about that daily wage earner who doesn’t even know what ‘go cashless’ means. A large amount of money belonging to the poor and the uninformed lot has become invalid. It is their hard-earned savings which they are unable to convert either because they don’t have access or right information about the whole process… The so called- informal economy is collapsing for the simple reason that it thrives on cash transactions. More than 90 percent of the labour force in India is dependent on this, receiving the biggest setback of their lives. The demand has come down drastically and the small or micro enterprises have slowed down on their production. Since the labour force works on a daily wages, a loss of one-month of their pay has crippled the informal economy like never before” [23]. “The Hindu” similarly concludes that demonetisation has caused a shortage of cash (a “cash famine”) that disproportionately impacts the poor who are not part of the digital economy [24].

Physicist and outstanding Indian environmental and social analyst and activist, Dr Vandana Shiva, has excoriated this disempowerment of the poor for the benefit of the rich (January 2017): “ As 2017 begins and we flounder in our mad rush to force all of India into a digital economy overnight… We live in times where the non-working rent collectors and speculators have emerged as the richest billionaires. Meanwhile, the hard working honest people, like farmers, workers in self-organised economies (mistakenly called unorganised and informal) are not just being pushed into deep poverty, they are, in fact, being criminalised by labelling their self-organised economic systems as “black”… Imposing the digital economy through a “cash ban” is a form of technological dictatorship, in the hands of the world’s billionaires. Economic diversity and technological pluralism are India’s strength and it is the “hard cash” that insulated India from the global market’s “dive into the red” of 2008… When I exchange Rs 100 even a 100 times it remains Rs 100. In the digital world those who control the exchange, through digital and financial networks, make money at every step of the 100 exchanges. That is the how the digital economy has created the billionaire class of one per cent, which controls the economy of the 100 per cent. The foundation of the real economy is work. Gandhi following Leo Tolstoy and John Ruskin called it “bread labour” — labour that creates bread that sustains life. Writing in Young India in 1921, he wrote: “God created man to work for his food, and said that those who ate without work were thieves” [25].

Satya Sagar, a journalist and public health worker, has similarly commented on this massive disempowerment of the poor (January 2017): “ From all evidence so far it is clear, that the Scheduled Castes and Tribes, who make up a bulk of those surviving off India’s vast informal economy, are the worst affected by the sudden disappearance of cash from the economy. Agricultural labour, construction workers, employees of micro-enterprises, the urban and rural poor – mostly from these marginalized castes- have been pushed to the brink of starvation or worse due to loss of jobs and income. The other sections, whose lives have been severely disrupted are small and medium sized farmers, who are overwhelmingly from Other Backward Castes and artisans, mostly from poorer Muslim communities…what the Narendra Modi dispensation is doing through its devious insistence on a digitalised economy – imposing on the already disadvantaged a test designed to not just make them fail but also put the blame for their misery on their own ‘ignorance’. If in the past they were actively denied knowledge of the ‘Vedas’ by the upper castes now, as they are trying to catch up, the rules of the game are either being changed abruptly or they are being priced out of the market. The most apt way to describe what is happening in India today is perhaps through a completely new term –dwijitalisation. It captures well the long-term implications of Narendra Modi’s push for a digital economy in a country that has long been ruled by the dwij – or twice born castes as the Hindu elite call themselves. Under the new rules of the dwijital economy only the dwij– at the top of the social, economic and political ladder – will climb still higher, while kicking the ladder down to ensure no one can follow” [26].

Final comments.

The Indian demonetisation is a huge shift towards a largely cash-less, digital economy that disproportionately impacts the largely digitally illiterate poor. This shift is towards a massive disempowerment of the poor for the benefit of the rich.

The top One Percent of the world own half the world’s wealth and this is clearly incompatible with one-person-one-vote democracy. India, even more blatantly so than other ostensible democracies, has become a kleptocracy, plutocracy, lobbyocracy, and corporatocracy in which Big Money in the hands of a relative few buys people, politicians, parties, policies, public perception of reality, and hence votes and more political power, with the consequences of even more private profit and private wealth that further trash democracy. Indeed India can be seen as a kind of extreme Apartheid state in which the rich One Percenters rule because the poor majority have been duped by Big Money perversion of democracy. Small wonder that nuclear terrorist, serial war criminal, racist Zionist-run, genocidally racist and democracy-by-genocide Apartheid Israel has successfully courted Modi.

Poverty and disempowerment constitute a deadly deprivation in India today that is already linked to an appalling, worsening and resolutely ignored annual avoidable mortality (annual untimely deaths) of 4.5 million Indians. Demonetisation will inevitably worsen deprivation and avoidable death. However the very callousness, wealth transfer, disempowerment and inequity implicit in Modi’s demonetisation may prove to be just too much to bear and hence lead to the downfall of the neoliberal One Percenters running kleptocracy India.

The currently dominant neoliberal economic model involves maximizing the freedom of the smart and advantaged to exploit the natural and human resources of the world for private profit, with an asserted trickle-down of some benefit to the poor. The clear, humane alternative to neoliberalism is social humanism (socialism, democratic socialism, ecosocialism, the welfare state) that seeks via evolving social contracts to maximize human happiness, opportunity and dignity for everyone [27, 28]. Yet, as demonstrated by the injustice of demonetisation, India is firmly in the hands of the neoliberal One Percenters.

Indeed democracy is fundamentally the expression of the will of the people and one would reasonably suppose that a fundamental desire of virtually all people would be minimization of avoidable deaths from deprivation, especially for themselves and their loved ones. The annual avoidable deaths of 4.5 million Indians is testament to the utter perversion of fundamental democracy by the rich One Percenters.

The sheer callousness of the Modi-led One Percenter demonetisation will hopefully induce national clarity in which humane Indians will reject neoliberal greed, corruption, inhumanity and inequity, and demand realization of the social humanist decencies for all promised at Independence nearly 70 years ago.

[1]. Binu Matthew, “Modi’s New Year’s Eve speech: what comes next?”, Countercurrents, 1 January 2017: http://www.countercurrents.org/2017/01/01/modis-new-year-eve-speech-what-comes-next/ .

[2]. UN Population Division, “World Population Prospects 2015 Revision”: https://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/DataQuery/ .

[3]. Gideon Polya, “Body Count. Global avoidable mortality since 1950”, that includes a history of every country from Neolithic times and is now available for free perusal on the web: http://globalbodycount.blogspot.com/ .

[4]. Martin Gilbert “Atlas of the Holocaust”(Michael Joseph, London, 1982).

[5]. Gideon Polya (2011), “Australia And Britain Killed 6-7 Million Indians In WW2 Bengal Famine”, Countercurrents, 29 September, 2011: http://www.countercurrents.org/polya290911.htm .

[6]. Paul Greenough (1982), “Prosperity and Misery in Modern Bengal: the Famine of 1943-1944” (Oxford University Press, 1982).

[7]. Jean Drèze and Amartya Sen (1989),“Hunger and Public Action” (Clarendon, Oxford, 1989).

[8]. Gideon Polya (2008), “Jane Austen and the Black Hole of British History. Colonial rapacity, holocaust denial and the crisis in biological sustainability” , G.M. Polya, Melbourne, 2008 edition that is now available for free perusal on the web: http://janeaustenand.blogspot.com/ .

[9]. Cormac O Grada (2009) “Famine a short history” (Princeton University Press, 2009).

[10]. Madhusree Muckerjee (2010), “Churchill’s Secret War. The British Empire and the ravaging of India during World War II” (Basic Books, New York, 2010).

[11]. Thomas Keneally (2011), “Three Famines” (Vintage House, Australia, 2011).

[12]. “Bengali Holocasut (WW2 Bengal Famine) writng iof Gideon Polya, Gideon Polya: https://sites.google.com/site/drgideonpolya/bengali-holocaust .

[13]. Colin Mason (2000), “A Short History of Asia. Stone Age to 2000AD” (Macmillan, 2000).

[14]. Lizzie Collingham (2012), “The Taste of War. World War II and the Battle for Food” (The Penguin Press, New York, 2012).

[15]. Jean Drèze and Amartya Sen, “Introduction” in Jean Drèze, Amartya Sen and Athar Hussain (editors), “The Political Economy of Hunger”, pages 18-19, Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1995.

[16]. Gideon Polya, “Economist Mahima Khanna, Cambridge Stevenson Prize And Dire Indian Poverty”, Countercurrents, 20 November, 2011: http://www.countercurrents.org/polya201111.htm .

[17]. Arundhati Roy and David Barsamian, “The Chequebook and the Cruise Missile”, Harper Perennial, New York, 2004).” from

[18]. “Mainstream media lying”: https://sites.google.com/site/mainstreammedialying/home .

[19]. “Mainstream media censorship”: https://sites.google.com/site/mainstreammediacensorship/home .

[20]. Rahul M., “Staying half-hungry due to the demonetisation “drought””, Countercurrents, 27 December 2016: http://www.countercurrents.org/2016/12/27/9341/ .

[21]. Archisman Dinda, “Demonetisation could lead to famine, Mamata Banerjee says” , Gulf News, 7 January 2017: http://gulfnews.com/news/asia/india...lead-to-famine-mamata-banerjee-says-1.1958120 .

[22]. “Indian demonetisation could lead to famine”, Pakistan Observer, 8 January 2017: http://pakobserver.net/indian-demonetisation-could-lead-to-famine/ .

[23]. “The demonetisation, a crippled economy and the mayhem!”, News World India, 15 December 2016: http://newsworldindia.in/business/the-demonetisation-a-crippled-economy-and-the-mayhem/239111/ .

[24]. “Demonetisation causes cash famine in Malabar”, The Hindu, 2 December 2016: http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities...es-cash-famine-in-Malabar/article16441703.ece .

[25]. Vandana Shiva, “Demonetisation: beware of digital dictatorship”, Countercurrents, 3 January 2017: https://www.countercurrents.org/2017/01/03/demonetisation-beware-of-digital-dictatorship/ .

[26]. Satya Sagar, “Cashless is not casteless”, Countercurrents, 9 January 2017: http://www.countercurrents.org/2017/01/09/cashless-is-not-casteless/ .

[27]. Brian Ellis, ”Social Humanism. A New Metaphysics”, Routledge , UK , 2012.

[28]. Gideon Polya, “Book Review: “Social Humanism. A New Metaphysics” By Brian Ellis – Last Chance To Save Planet?”, Countercurrents, 19 August, 2012: http://www.countercurrents.org/polya190812.htm .

https://www.countercurrents.org/201...dous-indian-avoidable-mortality-then-and-now/
'satya sagar'! interesting names/pseudonyms some journos attach to themselves. reminded me of inspector satyavadi dubey... :D



...and a couple of other SJW satyavadi dubeys of the 'order of the fiberal f(l)ight' quoted above



 

Khagesh

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http://www.zeebiz.com/companies/new...-the-impact-is-temporary-says-tata-steel-9812

Demonetisation has hit biz, but the impact is temporary, says Tata Steel
"There is an impact of demonetisation on the performance of the company, but the impact is temporary," Tata Steel Managing Director (India and South East Asia) T V Narendran told reporters. Image Source: Reuters
By PTI
Updated: Wed, Dec 28, 2016
09:59 am
Jamshedpur , PTI



aaaannnnnndddddd



http://www.livemint.com/Money/EopbIW2tqkzskW9sq15CdI/Why-is-Indias-steel-consumption-rising.html
Last Modified: Tue, Jan 10 2017. 08 10 AM IST
Why is India’s steel consumption rising?
If both dealers and companies have stocked up on inventory and demand is not robust, things may get tougher
Ravi Ananthanarayanan


WTH just happened. :p How can producer not get the benefit when the consumption is increasing?
 

Indx TechStyle

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WTH just happened. :p How can producer not get the benefit when the consumption is increasing?
IMO, he had a generalized response for all Tata Industries, plus Tata isn't a player alone.

For steel consumption and production, ya, it's been readily rising in India.

India has already beaten up USA has world's 3rd largest steel producer and soon will beat Japan as second one.

As demonetization has caused temporary slow on inflation and even deflation on some fields, obviously it brings down the profit at least for quarter.
 

IndianHawk

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WTH just happened. :p How can producer not get the benefit when the consumption is increasing?
Dumping from China Korea and Japan.
Chinese are selling every ton of steel with loss but they can't stop due to severe overcapacity .

It is eroding profits of Indian steel makers by unfair competition.
 

Khagesh

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Read more at: http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/ec...-subbarao_8324661.html?utm_source=ref_article
Subbarao: Note ban may be akin to Iraq WMD fiasco if results not tangible
Jan 24, 2017, 01.19 PM | Source: CNBC-TV18
The government had anticipated 15-20 percent of black money will be destroyed via its demonetisation move, which actually has not happened, believes the former governor of Reserve Bank D Subbarao.



“Cost of demonetisation have been huge and benefits are indefinite and unquantifiable,” he said. If atleast one percent is not added to tax to GDP ratio, then the situation will be equivalent to Iraq’s ‘weapons of mass destruction’.

Speaking to CNBC-TV18’s Latha Venkatesh, Subbarao said that while the step was a bold one, it was not executed well. It should have been done with more time as the RBI and the government do not work on ‘take it or leave it’ basis.

Speaking on the current issue of the Reserve Bank’s autonomy and credibility, Subbarao said that there is insufficient sensitivity in the government towards RBI.

The government should cautiously comment in spaces where the central bank has statutory autonomy. However, he further added that the issue of RBI’s credibility been eroded due to demonetisation is exaggerated.

Below is the verbatim transcript of D Subbarao's interview to Latha Venkatesh, on CNBC-TV18.

Q: The big elephant - demonetisation. We have seen a lot of the pain. Do you think this is pain well taken, do you think it will give us any gain or is that gain uncertain?

A: I wish I could give a binary answer to that. As everyone has said the cost of demonetisation have been huge, have been here and now, have been direct. The benefits are uncertain, unquantifiable and in indefinite future. However, it is not clear what the net cost benefit calculus will be but I will use two metrics to measure the success of this. The first metric is to what extent has the stock of black money been destroyed. Second, to what extent is the further regeneration of black money been prevented?

On the first metric, on the stock of black money, the initial expectation although the government did not say it in so many words - was that about 15-20 percent of the de-legalised money will be destroyed and that's about Rs 2-3 trillion - that will be a deadly blow to all these people who hoarded black money. It will be a huge profit to the Reserve Bank of India (RBI), a huge windfall revenue to the government, the government can declare moral and material victory and straight and simple but that has not happened; 97 percent of the money has come back.

So now we are looking for, at least the government is looking for discovery of black money out of the deposits. In my view, that's got to be at least about 1 percent of additional tax accretion as a result of this otherwise the net cost benefit calculus is negative. It will be like the search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, it will be like that.

On the second metric about preventing regeneration of black money - that is the continuing effort that government will have to pay attention. In my view in India what is more important than incentives for good behaviour is disincentives for bad behaviour. There has to be a fear of getting caught.

Q: Has demonetisation made it worth people to pay taxes because it is such a pain not to pay?

A: I would imagine so and I think the government will have to make it worthwhile for them to pay taxes, come clean and come into the formal economy - that\'s exactly the point I am making that the government has to put fear into them that you will be caught if you are found you are wrong.

To some extent demonetisation has set a great signalling impact like the Chinese say you kill the chicken to scare a monkey. So if they follow through this, I think the second metric of preventing regeneration of black money can be pursued successfully.

Latha: You are more than just an RBI Governor. You had a long stint in administration; general and economic administration in particular. Did you really need the demonetisation lead audit trail or is the tax administration picking up the available audit trails say in property. We could have caught more black money creators even without this, you think?

A: That is a debate we have been going through for the last 30 years. It is not as if demonetisation has been an original idea that has come overnight, right. For the last 25 years every government has been talking about it in most conferences, in most meetings it comes up and then it is discussed and put away as something impractical or inappropriate for that point of time. However, this government bite the bullet.

Therefore, I do not believe that you can say that there are alternate methods; there are alternate methods of course but you did need a strong sledgehammer action like this to show the government's determination to get the black money.

Q: So, basically, you think there is nothing wrong with this step itself?

A: I would think so, yes.

Q: The problem lies more in the execution? What is your discomfort, if any with demonetisation?

A: Certainly, everybody has talked about the pain and hardship that has gone. Hundreds of millions of people have gone through enormous pain and hardship. People have talked about whether there could have been greater preparedness. We have seen both the government and the RBI back and forth on instructions, confused people. There has certainly been inadequate if also muffled communication. So, all these things could have been done better.

Q: Your litmus test, you said, should be at least 1 percent more taxes. You mean 1 percent of GDP? It rises from 11-12 percent or whatever?

A: Right. At least 1 percent, otherwise I do not think the cost benefit calculus would be positive. And you must recognise that this 1 percent is on a permanent basis. It is not just this year, but every year. And of course, there will be other benefits of demonetisation like all of this black economy coming into the formal white economy and that having a multiplier effect and the digitisation, etc. and of course, corruption going down.

Q: But really, the impact on the RBI is what has also grabbed people’s attention. Do you think the RBI has come out injured in its autonomy and its credibility? That is what many people say.

A: Autonomy and credibility are related in one sense and they are also separate. So, let us talk about them separately. Autonomy: to say that RBI’s autonomy has been encroached upon, has been eroded, that is a story that is fed on itself. A lot of people saying this. Where is the hard evidence? You would say that RBI’s autonomy has been eroded provided it has been forced to do something that, in its judgement, is inappropriate to do.

What is the evidence people have? People say that the RBI Governor was advised just a day before and the RBI board just took about half an hour to decide. Let us look at them. Just like the army, the army is preparing for a battle for a long time. But the precise time of attack is decided at short notice. That is exactly what happened. The Governor said that they have been in consultation with the government. Both the government and the RBI have been working together for several months. It was advised a day before that this is the time.

Second, about RBI board deciding in just about half an hour where this is a matter on which they had to go entirely by judgement. There is no hard evidence, there is no hard data to fall back on. Let me ask you this. You referred to my experience in the government. How long does the Union Cabinet take to improve the Union Budget? Exactly 15 minutes. How long does any State Cabinet take to approve the State Budget? Exactly 10 minutes. This is a matter of record. You can see what time the Cabinet meeting is convened.

Q: Yes, but that is only the meeting. They have already looked at several aspects, at least the Finance Ministry has.

A: Finance Ministry has, not other ministers. In this demonetisation issue also, the RBI administration has looked at it. The board members have not.

_PAGEBREAK_

Q: It is quite possible. I am guessing and I have some sources who said so that the RBI did try to point out several problems if and when such a large demonetisation were undertaken. So, they must have, going by my sources, made their points clear that you cannot print. So, to some extent, they were made to do an inhuman feat. No central bank in the world can replace 85 percent of the currency in seven weeks.

A: Most of these are not binary issues.

Q: So, you do not think that autonomy is hurt. Is that your point?

A: I think that issue has been exaggerated. There is no hard evidence to believe that autonomy has been hurt. It is an urban legend that has fed on itself. People saying it and carrying it on. On credibility, it is a different issue. Yes, like we talked about before, to the extent of preparation, to the extent of communication and most importantly, to the extent of some people within the RBI getting caught for wrong doing. That is very hurtful and it has hurt the credibility of RBI.

RBI, as an institution has a formidable reputation for its professional and pecuniary integrity and that, I think, has been hurt. It is more a credibility issue than an autonomy issue. You cannot say that the RBI has been forced into it based on the evidence that is now available.

Q: What if you were in that position and they gave you six months to discuss, but you were told in seven weeks, 85 percent of the currency has to be changed and you knew the currency printing capacity? What could you have done?

A: No, but we are talking about seven weeks now. But the preparation has been going on for a long time. So, when you ask a question like what would you have done, it is a wonderful chance to be boastful.

But, when you are in the hot seat there, you do a lot of preparation to the best of your ability, but certainly, on an issue like this, on which there is no experience to fall back on, there could have been some glitches. In the event, I believe that there were more glitches than could have been, but that is par for the course. Yes, people suffered, hundreds of millions of people suffered and we do hope that there will be some significant, substantial and long sustainable benefit out of it.

Q: But would you have made your opposition felt?

A: Most certainly, yes. I would have told the government of what the state is and if necessary, I would asked for more time. And there is no evidence to show that the RBI or the Governor has not asked for more time.

Q: Would you have gone even beyond that and said that I will not be part of it, relieve me because I am unable to do it? How much further would you have pushed your opposition?

A: It depends on the circumstances. If I am, in principle, opposed to the judgement on demonetisation, yes, I would have said no. But if it is a question of logistic details, administrative details, that is not a matter of principle on which you sequence.

Q: If the logistical problem is so huge as to defeat the policy objective, in that case, which seems to be the case now?

A: Yes, but you are talking as if it is all a take it or leave it issues. The government and RBI do not function in that way. Indeed, no two public policy institutions function in that way on take it or leave it business. It is always making your way, convincing each other, persuading each other and compromising in what you believe is the public interest.

Q: Interestingly, Dr Reddy said I would have probably got myself admitted to the hospital or in some way, not been part of the proposal on the implementation. Would that be, opting out because of the magnitude?

A: I would say, I do not know in what context Dr Reddy made that statement. I have seen reports of that statement. But I would say that if you are, in principle, opposed to the decision about demonetisation, then that is a question for saying I quit. But, if you have some problems on implementation, I do not think that is a matter of principle on which you are required or obliged or called upon to quit. You need to work with other agencies to make it a success.

Q: There are only three members of the RBI board, external members. The rest are all RBI Deputy Governors and Governor and Finance Ministry officials. The fact that 6-7 seats are vacant, did all this already pave the way for very weak opposition?

A: I do not think so. I think that is reading too much conspiracy into this. There have been several instances over extended period, the RBI board was not fully positioned. At least on the specific point you are referring to that the RBI board is not fully positioned.

Yes, that is a shortcoming, that is not desirable, but to see some conspiracy in that and to say that the decision on demonetisation would have been any different or the implementation would have been any different if there had been seven more members on the RBI board is unrealistic.

_PAGEBREAK_

Q: I will try and recall what Dr Reddy said. He said, I would have tried to convince the government to only do Rs 1,000 notes because that would have been more hadleable and if they did not agree, then I would have perhaps opted out and said, he said I will not oppose the sovereign and be a rebel, I would have quietly said that I am not well and got myself admitted. That was the full statement of what he said. What would, therefore, been yours?

A: It is inappropriate for me to comment on what Dr Reddy said, but I told you what I would have done, where I would have stood. If it is a matter of principle, yes, you would stand by your principle. If it is a matter of judgement and you believe very strongly, yes. But if it is a matter of administrative logistics, you try to meet each other, you try to go half way and together, try to make the programme or the project or the decision a success.

Q: So, in this case, in principle, you were not opposed to the idea?

A: That is a hypothetical question because I do not have all the facts, all the judgement, all the analysis that was done when demonetisation decision was taken. So, being outside now to say that I would have approved demonetisation or I would have disagreed with it, is completely hypothetical.

Q: What about the way RBI itself has handled the communication? Would it have been better if RBI had admitted, taken the public into confidence, more communication would have saved the RBI more credibility?

A: Abstracting from all the specifics that you are talking about, about deadlines, dates, printing capacity because I am not familiar with all of that, it certainly would have helped if RBI had been more communicative and RBI had been seen to be in command of communication, not yielded to the government or other agencies. I wrote about this in my own book. I had a similar handicap.

When I came in, the global financial crisis erupted and there was criticism in the early weeks and early months when I came in that I was not being sufficiently communicative. Some of you, including probably yourself said that and I have corrected for it. So, I think RBI should have been in the driving seat as fast communication is concerned because this is an issue that is squarely within the RBI’s domain and should have been more communicative and should have been seen to be in command of the situation.

Q: One more word on Dr Reddy because I recently met him.

A: You must ask Dr Reddy about Dr Reddy.

Q: No, I will tell you why. In your book, you quote Dr Reddy and you said that I am not able to remember the quote very well. The RBI is autonomous and before I came here, I took my Finance Minister’s permission to say so. But in your book, you do not quite agree with them. You said that is a clever way of evading the issue or something. Do you think the RBI is not really all that autonomous?

A: First let us come to the comment. I said it is clever but it is incomplete because what is the boundary defined by the government. It is unclear both to the government and to the public who make a judgement. People such as yourselves, who manage opinions, manage perceptions, many of them do not know and it is not just unique to India.

Everywhere it happens. It has happened in America, it has happened in a big way in Japan between Prime Minister Abe and previous Governor Shirakawa. So, it is not unique to India, the autonomy issue. The RBI should be autonomous. In respect of issues in which it is statutedly given autonomy such as monetary policy, regulation of financial institutions, financial markets, payment systems, it should be autonomous, yes.

Q: What of the future then. What can RBI or government do to perhaps improve the credibility that has taken a beating if you go by statements made by the economists or Standard & Poor. International agencies have said RBI's reputation is in tatters?

A: But we must go behind. As we discussed earlier, RBI's reputation, RBI's record or credibility is an issue different from RBI's autonomy. We are talking about autonomy, right. So both on respecting and preserving RBI's autonomy as well as RBI's credibility both the RBI and the government will have to be working on this. However, having worked both in the government and in the RBI, I can say that there is insufficient sensitivity in the government to RBI's autonomy.

They must do several things, for example as far as RBI's policies are concerned where the RBI statutorily has autonomy; the government can comment but should comment cautiously, sparingly and with wisdom. I will give a simple example, if the finance secretary or the finance minister says that I expect the RBI to do this - that sends a different message from saying I want RBI to do this.

The Confederation of Indian Industry (CII) or the Associated Chambers of Commerce and Industry of India (ASSOCHAM) or the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FICCI) don't say I expect the RBI to do this. They say we request to do this, we want the RBI to do this, we would like if RBI does this.

Similarly the government as a stakeholder can certainly say the same thing but to say that we expect the RBI to do this - sends a different message, but just another thing because we have raised this issue, you were there at the panel discussion on my book when Mr. Chidambaram was also there and Mr. Chidambaram made the point that the RBI is a public policy institution. When an institution makes public policy, everybody has a right to criticise so does the government; government has a right to criticise. I do not completely agree with that.

Government criticising the RBI in a public forum is detrimental to macroeconomic management. So the government can certainly advise RBI behind closed doors but should not criticise the RBI in public domain. It's the sovereign and it is a very asymmetrical relationship. People know that if the government criticises, there is also an encroachment into RBI's autonomy at least that is the perception that people will get and that is not a healthy perception to push through.

Q: Looking at the future, we have the Budget coming in a few days. The expectation is that because demonetisation caused pain the fisc should make good. What do you think should be the fisc's responsibility in this Budget?

A: I have a very definite view on this. I am a fiscal hawk and for good or bad the fiscal responsibility of the government is seen to be the bellwether indicator of its reform credentials. This is not just for this government, for several governments for the last 25-30 years this has been the case.

We saw it in 2015 when finance minister Jaitely deviated from fiscal responsibility; there was a lot of criticism. In 2016 when he confirmed to it, there was a lot of praise. Domestic investors, foreign investors, analysts, commentators, opinion makers, all of them attached a lot of weight to this. So I do not believe that deviating from fiscal responsibility is a wise thing and where is the case for it.

If after all the government and the RBI are actually saying that this is a temporary blip, we could have a v-shaped recovery, there is going to be no hysterias at all, there is a temporary demand shock; where is the case for any fiscal stimulus, in fact I would argue that if you indeed get additional taxation and spend that money - there will be additional demand and there is no case for fiscal stimulus and there has already been a lot of monetary easing as a consequence of deposits and all that. So both from perception point of view as well as from hard macroeconomic evidence the case for deviating from fiscal responsibility is zero.
 

Khagesh

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@Khagesh Dude you switching sides Now? You were so against this move...

Stock markets are back to pre demonetization levels.
And that was the plan, no?

Somebody needed an exit plan without the INR crashing and an alternative entry plan to enter hard assets.

Here's something for the desh-bhaktsdrohis who think they are not being watched:


All those red bars are FIIs handing over the baton to the DIIs (yellow bars).

@Akshay_Fenix, abhi you guys have to worry less about the stock markets. The punters have been in the market for ages. They will beat the Ivy league imbeciles at this game. I also stand with Indian punter but they do not need support. They know how to turn the noose around and hang their opponent. It is after all a zero sum game and these guys are not here to loose. They are here to make some other sorry loser lose his.

You have to worry about the 1 crore of people demanding MNREGA jobs, which is primmed for about 30-40 lac people and which is already running behind on payments for months together and which is today run by a govt. trying to hide its tracks via closed whatsapp message groups.
 

Khagesh

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Now Bimal Jalan is the second Ex-Gov. who has given the thumbs down to the execution. D. S. Subbarow is linked above saying pretty much the same thing.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ood-move-bimal-jalan/articleshow/56818411.cms

By PTI | Updated: Jan 27, 2017, 10.58 PM IST
NEW DELHI: Former RBI Governor Bimal Jalan today said demonetisation in-principle was a good move to eliminate black money but in terms of consequences it did not work.

"Demonetisation, in terms of the principle of it, nobody can object to black money being tapped, or if demonetisation is being done to make sure that black money hoarders declare their money. But in terms of the consequences, you can see that it didn't work," he said at an NCAER event here.
 

Khagesh

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Kitno ne kitni dalali khayi hogi in order to ensure a firesale of Indian Hard Assets.

http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...nch-after-note-ban-collect-rs-3400-cr/528499/

Demonetisation: In Mumbai, real estate firms suffer no funds crunch after note ban, collect Rs 3,400 cr
Several real estate companies have managed to raise Rs 3,400 crore in the past two months, following demonetisation, which shows that there is not enough pressure on funding.
By: Priyanka Ghosh | Mumbai | Published: January 30, 2017 6:28 AM

An analyst said it can be the argument for the end-user-driven southern market but hardly be extended to other geographies. (Reuters)

Several real estate companies have managed to raise Rs 3,400 crore in the past two months, following demonetisation, which shows that there is not enough pressure on funding. Flushed with new credit lines, developers are getting a new lease of life to hold on to housing prices.

According to a JM Financial report, companies like Rohan Lifespaces, Lodha Developers, ATS Builders, Puranik Builders, Runwal Group and Kumar Urban Development, among others, have been given debt in the months of November and December according to their MCA filings.

This includes funding from both housing finance companies and banks. “It clearly signifies that there is still excess liquidity in the system; whichever company is not defaulting has access to capital,” said Abhishek Anand, assistant VP (equity research), JM Financial. Access to capital increase the holding capacity of developers, Anand added.

In the past two years, developers were not able to raise prices due to floundering sales, leading to a natural time correction. Largely, companies were able to hold on to rates as funding, especially through private sources and structured debt, reached record high levels, providing developers the much needed support to not to give in to consumer expectation and reduce prices.

“Developers were definitely playing the who-will-blink-first game with consumers,” said Ashutosh Limaye, head of research, JLL India. Instead of cutting prices, they preferred to borrow heavily from private sources, even if it meant a heavier finance cost, Limaye added. But post-demonetisation sales tumbled to a six-year low, intensifying expectations of a price reduction.

If there is no scarcity of funds, at least the large-sized companies will not resort to cutting prices, experts said. For instance, Bengaluru-based Sobha Developers has already said it will not reduce prices in any of its projects as it believes prices in Bangalore remain affordable.

An analyst said it can be the argument for the end-user-driven southern market but hardly be extended to other geographies. Sumit Jain, national director of residential services at Colliers India, said there is far more pressure in markets like Mumbai and the Delhi-NCR.
 

Khagesh

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Further reason why Indians will not get to see one bloody dime in this game will be net losers because of the NRI infested policy making.

The sales and profits have crashed but the OPM and NPM is holding still for the general group of listed corporates. And the really funny part is that despite this washout in sales and profits the GDP growth figures are going to be positive. Only that these numbers would be hiding more than they will reveal.



Full story here.
http://www.livemint.com/Companies/n...pact-on-Q3-earnings-not-as-bad-as-feared.html

Oh forgot to add.

Despite those slump sales the taxes will be up.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com...se-demonetisation-windfall/article9508332.ece
Tax gains may showcase demonetisation windfall
RICHA MISHRA/SURABHI
The government may showcase gains in tax collections as an immediate windfall of demonetisation, as it may take months to compile the actual benefits in value terms.
...

Finance Minister Arun Jaitley, on January 8, talking about “Demonetisation – A Look Back at the last Two Months” wrote about a new normal. He said in 2015-16, 3.7 crore assessees of the total population of over 125 crore, filed income tax returns. Of these, 99 lakh declared income below ₹2.5 lakh and paid no taxes; 1.95 crore declared income less than ₹5 lakh; 52 lakh declared income between ₹5 and ₹10 lakh, and only 24 lakh declared income above ₹10 lakh.

Tax evasion
“No better evidence is required to substantiate that both in the matter of direct and indirect taxes India continues to suffer being a hugely tax non-compliant society,” the Finance Minister had observed adding that tax evasion has neither been considered unethical nor immoral, and several governments have allowed this normal to continue even though it compromised with larger public interest.


Now what if despite those increased tax declarations the returnees simply declare no incomes in future. You cannot force a man to earn incomes and profits. Can you?
 
Last edited:

Khagesh

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Relevant portions of Budget 2017 rip off. Now sit back and wonder where the Desh-BhaktDrohis went wrong. Thank god I bailed out long back. :D


http://www.hindustantimes.com/union...ive-updates/story-RLKvFroFw9D7oStWeR149J.html

-- One crore house by 2019. PM Ayas Yojana allocation for 2017-18 will be Rs 23,000, up from Rs 15,000 crore in last budget. 100% village electrification by May 1, 2018.

-- Budget allocation to MNREGA increased to a record Rs 48,000 crore for 2017-18, from Rs 37,000 crore in 2016-17. Five lakh ponds target achieved for 2016/17. Another five lakh ponds to be taken up in 2017/18 for drought proofing of villages.

-- Participation of women in MNREGA has increased to 55%

-- Target of agricultural loans to farmers set at record Rs 10 lakh crore in 2017/18.

-- GST, demonetisation two tectonic policy initiatives

-- We have witnessed historic and impactful economic reform and policymaking

-- Number of global reports show India has considerably improved its policies, profile and practice

-- Three challenges in current global scenario: Monetary stance of US FED Reserve, commodity prices specially crude oil and retreat from globalisation

-- A model law on contract farming will be circulated among states for consultation.
 
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