5 SIMI activists shot dead on way to court in Telangana

Mad Indian

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OK this encounter is FAKE ..Now tell me what the hell they ( smuglers) were doing in the forest during night time....AP police gave statement " We shot randomly in all directions" ..Yes its true you can't take perfect aim on hand or legs if a person is running....And smugglers were pelting stones sickles etc...In that situation they opened fire for self defence...
https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...x9EuW4qTdM8f_F9IrpkzsZg&bvm=bv.90491159,d.c2E
https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...-VeigkK1bRc847IWGcbiYzA&bvm=bv.90491159,d.c2E
You have no idea what "encounter" is do you?

What tamilians were doing inside Andhra Pradesh reserve forest..
what a stupid statement
 

Free Karma

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Blood Sanders: Autopsy Reveals TN Loggers Killed at Close Range - The New Indian Express

The police spin on firing in self-defence at 20 Tamil Nadu loggers suffered a body blow Wednesday as post-mortem reports revealed the bullets that caused their death were shot from a very close range.

The slugs pierced vital organs of the victims which led to their death, medical sources said after forensic experts conducted the post-mortem at Sri Venkateswara Ramnarain Ruia Government General Hospital here. The bodies, brought to the hospital in the wee hours, had started decomposing by then as they were reportedly kept in sunlight for hours at the encounter site.

Because of this, the forensic team faced problems during the autopsy, an official said. The autopsy found major organs of the victims were badly injured with gunshot wounds, while the limbs were also found to have injuries. In one body, two bullets were found in the chest and four on the back.

According to sources, top administration officials and hospital authorities were involved in making arrangements for the post-mortem since 2 am in order to complete the exercise by 2 pm so that the bodies could be handed over to the relatives latest by 4 pm. The experts began the post-mortem at 9 am. Five doctors and 10 supporting staff were drafted in for the work.

"The postmortem team comprised three surgeons from the forensic, pathology and general surgery departments," said a senior medical officer. After examining the bodies. the team concluded the victims were shot from a 'very close range'.
 

sesha_maruthi27

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No one knows the truth and will not know it for ever.......

Today evening the AP police gave report, which says that among the 20 there were 3 international smugglers..... Now, if they have identified them then they have to furnish the identities of the three international smugglers......

Let us see what comes out in the media.....
 

tarunraju

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@tarunraju Dude, how do you know they were the main smugglers? Does smuggling deserve execution? And the initial autopsy reports actually contradict the Police version of the story.
The police said so. Because you know, we're nationalists here and all, and trust men in uniform? If you have no reason to trust AP Police on this case, then you lose all reason to trust the Indian Army in Kashmir. Else you stand a hypocrite.

Robbing India of its natural resources, without selling it in a way that fills the national coffers, is an act of war, and deserves more than execution.
 
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Mad Indian

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The police said so. Because you know, we're nationalists here and all, and trust men in uniform? Else you stand a hypocrite.
The autopsy report tears down the police version of the events. Trusting "statements" over "evidence" , is not "nationalistic", its moronic.

If you have no reason to trust AP Police on this case, then you lose all reason to trust the Indian Army in Kashmir.
This logic is so stupid I dont know what to reply. I will try anyway. AP police answers to Andhra govt, to which I am not a part of while Indian army answers to Indian govt, to which I am part of. Both are not even comparable. I have no reason to trust AP police on their word when they dont answer to me when I have every reason to trust Indian army since they represent me. But again, I am not stupid to trust even IA when evidence is strong against their words.

Robbing India of its natural resources, without selling it in a way that fills the national coffers, is an act of war, and deserves more than execution.
Wow. Since when were Police given the right to execute smugglers and since when was execution the punishment for smuggling?

I expected better from you. I am disappointed.
 
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tarunraju

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The autopsy report tears down the police version of the events. Trusting "statements" over "evidence" , is not "nationalistic", its moronic.
An autopsy doesn't tell you what happened at the crime-scene. It only tells you how a person died. A Paki insurgent shot at for entering India would have a similar autopsy report.

AP police answers to Andhra govt, to which I am not a part of while Indian army answers to Indian govt, to which I am part of. Both are not even comparable.
When on AP soil, you are part of AP. AP is an Indian state, and open to Indian citizens, including the criminals who got killed. And so AP Police serves everyone on AP soil (including foreign nationals with valid visas). Therefore, AP Police is as competent and sovereign a law-enforcement authority as Indian Army in Kashmir.

I have no reason to trust AP police on their word when they dont answer to me when I have every reason to trust Indian army since they represent me. But again, I am not stupid to trust even IA when evidence is strong against their words.
Since Tamil Nadu Police has no jurisdiction over the crime-scene (in AP soil), you have no choice but to give AP Police the benefit of the doubt. There's little for them to gain by killing "defenceless" sandalwood smugglers. Since 1991, anti-Naxal/poacher encounters have already been removed as a criterion for accelerated promotions. So there's literally nothing that AP Police could gain from faking an encounter against these smugglers. A sandalwood smuggler is classified similar to a protected-species poacher by AP Forest Dept.

Wow. Since when were Police given the right to execute smugglers and since when was execution the punishment for smuggling?
Since they got the mandate to use lethal force with probable cause against all naxals/insurgents/poachers/smugglers, way back since NT Rama Rao's regime (1980s), when the AP Special Police (so-called Grey Hounds Corps) was constituted to recover territory from Naxal control. Grey Hounds is under standing orders from the state government to use lethal force since the 1980s. Nobody revoked those orders. AP Police restored India's sovereignty in Naxal-affected areas in 4 years flat. The fall of naxalism in AP is what broke the chain of "red-corridor" between Jharkhand (then Bihar), Chattisgarh (then MP), Telangana (then AP), AP, and Karnataka, and finished Naxalism in all of South India. It's how Karnataka could finish-off Veerappan and his gang.

You're welcome.
 

pkp8n

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Red sanders smugglers kill 2 forest officials near Tirupati - The Hindu

This is the Red sandal loggers attacking and killing two forest rangers and wounding others. I'll tell a gory detail not written in the above article , the two officers dead bodies were found sawed in half when they were picked up later. This is just one of many attacks on Law enforcement by the Red sandal smugglers. There are roughly 1500-1800 loggers arrested in the last 8 months , for red sandal smuggling in AP. The AP Red Sandal Special Task force has written to their counterparts in Tamilnadu to discourage the loggers from coming into AP. AP government has written to Tamilnadu government to have active policing on the borders of AP to discourage the loggers from entering into AP. There has been a sustained campaign by AP in the last six months with posters pasted in Tamil , in the bordering villages saying that the people found cutting red sandal in reserve forest will be shot.

So after all this if some one is stupid enough to enter the reserve forest , they deserve to be shot.
 

tarunraju

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Red sanders smugglers kill 2 forest officials near Tirupati - The Hindu

This is the Red sandal loggers attacking and killing two forest rangers and wounding others. I'll tell a gory detail not written in the above article , the two officers dead bodies were found sawed in half when they were picked up later. This is just one of many attacks on Law enforcement by the Red sandal smugglers. There are roughly 1500-1800 loggers arrested in the last 8 months , for red sandal smuggling in AP. The AP Red Sandal Special Task force has written to their counterparts in Tamilnadu to discourage the loggers from coming into AP. AP government has written to Tamilnadu government to have active policing on the borders of AP to discourage the loggers from entering into AP. There has been a sustained campaign by AP in the last six months with posters pasted in Tamil , in the bordering villages saying that the people found cutting red sandal in reserve forest will be shot.

So after all this if some one is stupid enough to enter the reserve forest , they deserve to be shot.
Yes, people like @Mad Indian have a pair of reptilian inner eyelids that filter out news of countless instances of sandalwood smugglers killing AP Police and fleeing to neighboring TN and KA, where their police departments refuse to give them up under orders from TN/KA politicians profiting from sandalwood trade.

This is why I refuse to give two shits about these TN smugglers. They were criminals, and people of their kind have historical precedent of killing AP Police. They got the 20 grams of lead that they deserved.

Although I am a Telangana statehood supporter, and although I've experienced brutality from AP Police first-hand, I completely sympathize with AP Special Police (Greyhounds corps), who rescued Telangana from naxalism, and lost hundreds of lives getting there.
 
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Mad Indian

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Yes, people like @Mad Indian have a pair of reptilian inner eyelids that filter out news of countless instances of sandalwood smugglers killing AP Police and fleeing to neighboring TN and KA, where their police departments refuse to give them up under orders from TN/KA politicians profiting from sandalwood trade.
I never knew they were involved in such activities in the first place. Of course, if their crime included murder, a case could be made to justify the killings by the police. But the thing is, we dont know if the people killed were the same as those who were engaged in killing the police personnel. The 20 members killed could have very well be just wood cutters following orders of the smuggling cartel

This is why I refuse to give two shits about these TN smugglers. They were criminals, and people of their kind have historical precedent of killing AP Police. They got the 20 grams of lead that they deserved.

Although I am a Telangana statehood supporter, and although I've experienced brutality from AP Police first-hand, I completely sympathize with AP Special Police (Greyhounds corps), who rescued Telangana from naxalism, and lost hundreds of lives getting there.
I know this is a grey and grey issue, but blind supporting of such incidents is detrimental in the long run
 
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Mad Indian

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An autopsy doesn't tell you what happened at the crime-scene. It only tells you how a person died. A Paki insurgent shot at for entering India would have a similar autopsy report.
Dont talk about things you have no clue of. Autopsy can tell who killed whom, from where, at what distance and so on. The autopsy report proves that the police shot them at a very close range, meaning there was no retaliation or anything and the police just lined them up and shot them. Your jingoism is clouding your judgement:rolleyes:
When on AP soil, you are part of AP. AP is an Indian state, and open to Indian citizens, including the criminals who got killed. And so AP Police serves everyone on AP soil (including foreign nationals with valid visas). Therefore, AP Police is as competent and sovereign a law-enforcement authority as Indian Army in Kashmir.
What a bunch of nonsense. AP is affiliated to Home ministery of AP state. It does not answer to other state Indians. It cant be compared to Indian army in anyway.

Since Tamil Nadu Police has no jurisdiction over the crime-scene (in AP soil), you have no choice but to give AP Police the benefit of the doubt.
We did, and they were proven wrong by the autopsy report. Stop defending the indefensible and stop bringing up a strawman. TN police has nothing to do with any of this and their jurisdiction means zilch

There's little for them to gain by killing "defenceless" sandalwood smugglers Since 1991, anti-Naxal/poacher encounters have already been removed as a criterion for accelerated promotions. So there's literally nothing that AP Police could gain from faking an encounter against these smugglers. A sandalwood smuggler is classified similar to a protected-species poacher by AP Forest Dept..
Actually, there is. Their need to show the state govt or its people that they are doing something against the smuggling ring. Why do you think TN police killed the bihari thieves in fake encounters? To give a statement that there will be no tolerance of thievery.

This is something we should discourage as a civilised society.

Since they got the mandate to use lethal force with probable cause against all naxals/insurgents/poachers/smugglers, way back since NT Rama Rao's regime (1980s), when the AP Special Police (so-called Grey Hounds Corps) was constituted to recover territory from Naxal control. Grey Hounds is under standing orders from the state government to use lethal force since the 1980s. Nobody revoked those orders. AP Police restored India's sovereignty in Naxal-affected areas in 4 years flat. The fall of naxalism in AP is what broke the chain of "red-corridor" between Jharkhand (then Bihar), Chattisgarh (then MP), Telangana (then AP), AP, and Karnataka, and finished Naxalism in all of South India. It's how Karnataka could finish-off Veerappan and his gang.
Hmm, so they had authorisation/jurisdiction to do it from Andhra govt?! Good to know
 

pkp8n

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@Mad Indian,
1) The New Indian Express is a Known Naidu/TDP baiter . I'd wait for the actual autopsy report to come out before blaming the AP Police. Even the Tamilnadu government is ordering for their own autopsy which means that the Autopsy report was not in their favor.

2) Yes,They might not be the same workers who killed the officers, but do you know that the Red Sandal loggers are hired from the same area , tiruvannamalai district of tamilnadu. Yes the same district that was notorious for Veerappan. The Reason the workers are hired from this particular area is because of their aggressiveness. They don't run away from Police/ Forest Rangers when they see them they attack them . In fact if you talk to villagers living in small hamlets on both sides of AP and Tamilnadu border, you will find that these guys dont just kill Cops and Forest Rangers , they kill a lot of people with their reckless driving and in guise of being informers to Police. head honcho's hire these workers roughly at 10000 rs/day/head and send them into forest to cut the trees for them .

As @tarunraju was mentioning the Nexus of AP/Tamil/Karnataka politicians have a big hand in this.

AP Government has released infrared camera pictures showing the workers carrying logs away on the day of the Encounter. Also the encounter happened between 3-4 AM in the morning and stones were being pelted at police , so i dont think they would have cared whether they were shooting at their legs /heads .
 
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Mad Indian

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I think you are misunderstanding my position. I am saying this is a grey and grey issue and I agree with what you have written to a large extend. Blind support to the AP police in this case is very bad in the long run. I will break it down for you.


As @tarunraju was mentioning the Nexus AP/Tamil/Karnataka politicians have a big hand in this.
See, this is something which is very important. The people who got killed should have been instead used to open up the nexus instead just being shot and killed. Also, the people killed were just foot soldiers/pawns of the smuggling mafia. Tell me how does killing them outright going to control smuggling?

AP Government has released infrared camera pictures showing the workers carrying logs away on the day of the Encounter. Also the encounter happened between 3-4 AM in the morning and stones were being pelted at police , so i dont think they would have cared whether they were shooting at their legs /heads .
I understand the police shooting if it was indeed a case of self defence. But I doubt this is a case of self defence really. Killing even a single person in the smugglers would have stopped them from retaliating back and would have led to their capture. They would have been far more usefull as assets to bring down the smuggling cartel.
2) Yes,They might not be the same workers who killed the officers, but do you know that the Red Sandal loggers are hired from the same area , tiruvannamalai district of tamilnadu. Yes the same district that was notorious for Veerappan. The Reason the workers are hired from this particular area is because of their aggressiveness. They don't run away from Police/ Forest Rangers when they see them they attack them . In fact if you talk to villagers living in small hamlets on both sides of AP and Tamilnadu border, you will find that these guys dont just kill Cops and Forest Rangers , they kill a lot of people with their reckless driving and in guise of being informers to Police. head honcho's hire these workers roughly at 10000 rs/day/head and send them into forest to cut the trees for them .
You are mistaking me for someone who is a HRA and who gives a damn about these smugglers. I dont . The problem here is not that they are killed, but they are killed extrajudically. Again, if the killers of the police/forest rangers got killed in this encounter, then ok. I have no problem, but I have a hard time accepting that all of these killed in the encounters were involved in killing the police officials and forest officials.

And regarding Veerappan - see this is what I was talking about. Do you know that even Veerappan encounter was claimed to be a fake? Veerappan also had nexus with politicians. With his death , any chance of bringing the nexus out in the open died. If we had not encouraged it at the time, we would not have had this encounter now and would have had the chance to bring the smuggling cartel into the open now. Do you honestly think killing a few foot soldiers is going to stop the smuggling cartel?

@Mad Indian,
1) The New Indian Express is a Known Naidu/TDP baiter . I'd wait for the actual autopsy report to come out before blaming the AP Police. Even the Tamilnadu government is ordering for their own autopsy which means that the Autopsy report was not in their favor.
I highly doubt it. The autopsy report is very contradictory to the police report. You know whats worse? You cant even trust the autopsy reports in such cases as even they are vulnerable to falsification due to political pressures. I myself know several such cases , having worked in the forensic department for a few months in my training.

As a civilised society, we should be looking for improving the judicial process and police. Fast track the process. That is the best way to go in the long run. Ad hoc measures like these extra judicial killings will create more problems than they solve. But then again , justice delayed is justice denied. So this whole issue is a very grey and grey issue. While you may not want to hound the AP police for their encounter, you dont want to encourage it either
 
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pkp8n

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I think you are misunderstanding my position. I am saying this is a grey and grey issue and I agree with what you have written to a large extend. Blind support to the AP police in this case is very bad in the long run. I will break it down for you.




See, this is something which is very important. The people who got killed should have been instead used to open up the nexus instead just being shot and killed. Also, the people killed were just foot soldiers/pawns of the smuggling mafia. Tell me how does killing them outright going to control smuggling?

In fact This is what is happening , During the last Six months A lot of Big wig smugglers have been arrested put behind bars and are awaiting trail.

I understand the police shooting if it was indeed a case of self defence. But I doubt this is a case of self defence really. Killing even a single person in the smugglers would have stopped them from retaliating back and would have led to their capture. They would have been far more usefull as assets to bring down the smuggling cartel.

That is what I am trying to establish , As per police accounts there were roughly hundred of these loggers pelting stones at them , the police might have felt they were in imminent danger. the STG has authorization to carry automatic weapons , once they start firing in all the adrenaline rush they would not know how many they were killing .

You are mistaking me for someone who is a HRA and who gives a damn about these smugglers. I dont . The problem here is not that they are killed, but they are killed extrajudically. Again, if the killers of the police/forest rangers got killed in this encounter, then ok. I have no problem, but I have a hard time accepting that all of these killed in the encounters were involved in killing the police officials and forest officials.

Lets agree to disagree on this point , you feel these are extra judicial killings and I feel that the killings are justified .

And regarding Veerappan - see this is what I was talking about. Do you know that even Veerappan encounter was claimed to be a fake? Veerappan also had nexus with politicians. With his death , any chance of bringing the nexus out in the open died. If we had not encouraged it at the time, we would not have had this encounter now and would have had the chance to bring the smuggling cartel into the open now. Do you honestly think killing a few foot soldiers is going to stop the smuggling cartel?

No killing a few foot soldiers will not stop the smuggling cartel , but it will send a strong message to others regarding what is waiting for them if they enter and try to cut Red Sandal wood.

I highly doubt it. The autopsy report is very contradictory to the police report. You know whats worse? You cant even trust the autopsy reports in such cases as even they are vulnerable to falsification due to political pressures. I myself know several such cases , having worked in the forensic department for a few months in my training.

accepted since you are the expert on this.

As a civilised society, we should be looking for improving the judicial process and police. Fast track the process. That is the best way to go in the long run. Ad hoc measures like these extra judicial killings will create more problems than they solve. But then again , justice delayed is justice denied. So this whole issue is a very grey and grey issue. While you may not want to hound the AP police for their encounter, you dont want to encourage it either
Agreed on the justice part and the grey and grey part.
 

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