5 points that make Arvind Kejriwal's Delhi Lokpal Bill 2014 BETTER tha

Discussion in 'Politics & Society' started by happy, Jan 28, 2014.

  1. happy

    happy Senior Member Senior Member

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    5 points that make Arvind Kejriwal's Delhi Lokpal Bill 2014 BETTER than Jan Lokpal Bill 2013

    New Delhi: The Jan Lokpal Bill is likely to be approved by the Delhi Cabinet on Tuesday as its draft has almost been finalised by a panel headed by Chief Secretary.

    According to an official, Chief Minister Arvind Kejriwal held a long discussion on the Bill in a meeting attended by lawyer and AAP leader Prashant Bhushan, advocate Rahul Mehra, Cabinet ministers and senior government officials.

    The anti-corruption Bill is largely based on Uttarakhand Lokayukta Bill. However, it differs on some points, including the inclusion of chief minister in its ambit, the official said.

    The meeting, which was chaired by Kejriwal to discuss the fine prints of the bill, went on for around two hours.

    Soon after assuming the office on December 28, Kejriwal had said his government would pass the promised Jan Lokpal Bill from Ramlila ground by the first week of February.

    A committee headed by the Chief Secretary and secretaries of Urban Development, Law and Finance departments, besides eminent advocate Rahul Mehra has been given the responsibility of drafting the Jan Lokpal Bill.

    Following are five points on which the draft of Delhi Lokpal Bill differs from original Jan Lokpal Bill as passed by both houses of parliament last year.

    1. Jan Lokpal Bill: Lokpal will be selected by 5 members: by PM, Leader of Opposition, Speaker, CJI, and one jurist nominated by these 4.

    Delhi Lokpal Bill: Selection committee will be comprised of 7 members including Chief Minister of Delhi (Chairperson of selection committee), Leader of Opposition, 2 judges of Delhi High Court, 1 person from previous chairpersons of Lokpal, and 2 other members to be selected by other members.

    2. Jan Lokpal Bill: The Lokpal would have to get the complaints investigated by any investigating agency, including the CBI, all of which would continue to remain under the administrative control of the government. The transfer, postings and post-retirement jobs of CBI officers would be under the control of the govt, thus compromising the independence of the investigative machinery.

    Delhi Lokpal Bill: The Lokpal in Delhi can suspend officer during investigation. He/she can recommend punishment amounting to of dismissal, removal or reduction in rank. He/she can attach property and assets acquired by the corrupt officer. He/she can punish public servant with 6 months imprisonment or fine or both if he fails to comply with lokpal orders. Lokpal will have powers to issue search warrant to officers not less than ACP rank or equivalent.

    3. Jan Lokpal Bill: No mention of Whistleblower protection and Citizens Charter in the government’s bill.

    Delhi Lokpal Bill: In case of threat to whistleblowers, investigation shall be fast tracked and completed within 3 months.

    4. Jan Lokpal Bill: Any person making a false or frivolous complaint could be jailed for up to 1 year, or a fine of up to Rs. 1 lakh, which will deter even honest complainants from going to the Lokpal.

    Delhi Lokpal Bill: If the complaint is found to be malafied, the court may impose a fine of up to Rs. 5 lakh or an imprisonment up to one year or both.

    5. Jan Lokpal Bill: The Lokpal Bill as passed by parliament makes no reference to fine imposed on Grievance Redressal Officer in case they fail to discharge their duties within prescribed time.

    Delhi Lokpal Bill: Penalty of up to Rs. 500 each day but not exceeding Rs. 50, 000 to be recovered from the salaries of the Grievance Redressal Officer or government official responsible for the non delivery of the service.

    5 points that make Arvind Kejriwal's Delhi Lokpal Bill 2014 BETTER than Jan Lokpal Bill 2013 - daily.bhaskar.com
     
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  3. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Re: 5 points that make Arvind Kejriwal's Delhi Lokpal Bill 2014 BETTER

    Is it better than what Anna Hazare proposed?

    If so, how?

    And what are provisions that would make the LokPal accountable and not a law unto himself?
     
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  4. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Re: 5 points that make Arvind Kejriwal's Delhi Lokpal Bill 2014 BETTER

    Yes, who will guard the guards?
     
  5. Twinblade

    Twinblade Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: 5 points that make Arvind Kejriwal's Delhi Lokpal Bill 2014 BETTER

    I might have a draft of the Lokpal bill proposed by Anna and Kejriwal under IAC on my hard drive, I will try to dig it up. Prima facie, this should have been the optimum version of Lokpal bill, but the central government removed certain provisions from it, to be reintroduced in Citizen Charter bill and Whistleblower Act. On papers the central govt logic is sound, but in reality those bills might take a few years to get passed. Hence Kejriwal's Lokpal is superior as it stands today.

    People said the same about election commission of India being granted so many powers. Under govt's lokpal bill, the removal request to the president has to be signed by 100 MPs. In IAC version, any citizen can complain against Lokpal to the president.
     
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  6. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Re: 5 points that make Arvind Kejriwal's Delhi Lokpal Bill 2014 BETTER

    Without an independent CBI Lokpal is toothless and dilutes the movement against corruption.
     
  7. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Re: 5 points that make Arvind Kejriwal's Delhi Lokpal Bill 2014 BETTER

    Several issues:

    1. Who is guarding the guards right now ?
    Rhetoric aside, who is the most effective guard ? The people of India.

    We must understand at its very fundamental, out Govt (like other democratics Govts) is for the people, by the people and of the people. The highest body accountable is not the Parliament but the People. The supremacy of People cannot be challenged.

    2. The assumption that we are operating under is not that everyone is inherently corrupt. It is a very important point to understand.
     
  8. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

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    Re: 5 points that make Arvind Kejriwal's Delhi Lokpal Bill 2014 BETTER

    Anna's Lokepal is a Jokepal.

    All of a sudden Congress agreed to his Jokepal and that too just before Delhi elections just to counter AAP but it failed badly.
     
  9. jackprince

    jackprince Turning into a frog Senior Member

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    Re: 5 points that make Arvind Kejriwal's Delhi Lokpal Bill 2014 BETTER

    No, people are never very good guards. They always tend to take matters up in their own hands in a way that is left unchecked leads to ruination.

    The assumption should be that a few are corrupt only.

    But, anyway if a citizen brings complain against Lokpal, who's gonna investigate; or should he have to bring solid evidence. If he must, to avoid being scapegoated, then how is Lokpal different than existing system?

    The problem with people is they have already accepted that the office of Lokpal itself will be free of corruption. How can you ensure? Are you going to bring in robots or may be angels to serve in the office of Lokpal? The CBI which cannot seem to prove any charge in years against a accused official, how can they be able to prove the charges within 6 months? Or should it not have been proved within 6 months, the charges to be dropped forever and the officials never be indicted on the particular issue again? What happens to the chap who brought the charges which could not be proved for insubstantial evidence? Should he be prosecuted or fined then, or does he go scott free? If he goes scott free, can the official in turn bring charges on the individual AND the officials of Lokpal who have let him go free? What happens when a official is indicted and punished by Lokpal, and later is proven not guilty in higher court? What’s the proviso to get reparation from Lokpal for their mistake which will happen, mark my word, if the investigation is rushed?

    I actually would like to have these questions answered.
     
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  10. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Re: 5 points that make Arvind Kejriwal's Delhi Lokpal Bill 2014 BETTER

    You cannot reduce political philosophy and compare it to human psychology. Thats disingenuous.

    As for the specifics of Janlokpal of Delhi, there is no final draft even. Let it be debated.
    It will be an amelioration of BJP UK's now soon to be re-appealed bill.
     
  11. fallenwarrior

    fallenwarrior Regular Member

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    Re: 5 points that make Arvind Kejriwal's Delhi Lokpal Bill 2014 BETTER

    Sir in one hand you want the full control of the Delhi Police (please note you didn't pitch for its independence)
    on the other hand you want an independent CBI-this is sheer double-standards.(please note here you want an independent CBI)
    for the very same reasons AK raises pitch for having control of the DP the same can be extended for the Govt of India regarding its decision to keep CBI under its ambit.
     
  12. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Re: 5 points that make Arvind Kejriwal's Delhi Lokpal Bill 2014 BETTER

    By you, you mean AAP or me ?

    I am the most active pro-AAP respondent around here, but I am not AAP.

    However, Kejriwal wants Delhi Police to be accountable and responsible whether to the Govt of the people of Delhi, or to their representatives or to the people.

    Kejriwal wants CBI to be independent, as we have seen how CBI is today dubbed as Congress bureau of investigation.
     
  13. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Re: 5 points that make Arvind Kejriwal's Delhi Lokpal Bill 2014 BETTER

    @jackprince

    Adding another point,

    There is no convincing argument to call for negation of accountability, and or anti-corruption legislation.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  14. fallenwarrior

    fallenwarrior Regular Member

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    Re: 5 points that make Arvind Kejriwal's Delhi Lokpal Bill 2014 BETTER

    My apologies Sir,
    I didn't intend to mean you.It was for AAP.
    Btw Arvind Kejriwal want's to have control over DP:

    "We want Delhi Police to come under Delhi government, the Bill is pending in Parliament since 2004," Kejriwal told CNN-IBN, Editor-in-Chief, Rajdeep Sardesai.

    Kejriwal defends law minister, says Delhi cops should be under state govt | Firstpost
     
  15. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Re: 5 points that make Arvind Kejriwal's Delhi Lokpal Bill 2014 BETTER

    I don't know what you mean by People. Parliament is the People. We voted them into power and they represent Us.

    If you are literally talking about a billion people, then I have no idea how We can challenge a corrupt Lokpal official legally. Lokpal may become something like Lokayukta but with disciplinary powers, which is a good thing, but I don't see why the people in power within Lokpal will not become corrupt eventually.

    So, do we make another body that will watch the workings of Lokpal and further complicate it? Or do we give CBI more powers by making them independent of the Parliament? Perhaps give the judges more powers to watch the proceedings of the Lokpal?
     
  16. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Re: 5 points that make Arvind Kejriwal's Delhi Lokpal Bill 2014 BETTER

    @p2prada

    Re: Guardian and People being the Guardian

    Rahul Gandhi mode: The people of India should be empowered.

    An Indians interaction with the politician, who represent him for the next 5 years, is limited to a ballot every 5 years. The system breeds distance, the system is skewed against the people.

    If there is greater accountability of the system and its cogs, and(or) the people have greater participation and power, we can reach a situation where we don't require a system of a guard to guard the guardian ad infinitum. (A case of smaller government ?)

    And Kejriwal made a very pertinent remark on this (massively paraphrasing):
    He said instead of building a team of thousands of Anti-corruption officials, and then working out polices, SOPs, legislations etc, I have empowered the people of Delhi. With their cellphones they can go forth and catch any corruption taking place.

    And you can see the difference overnight. Today, there are virtually no touts in the govt offices, govt officials are not overtly asking for bribes, almost everything is running pretty smoothly. And the state has spent no money.

    Unfortunately, in this time of Modi hysteria, the impact of such measures has been lost. A lot of us dream of a strong leader perhaps like Netaji or for some one like Modi who will lead us to our rightful place in the league of nations.

    ===

    Re: Lokpal or the ombudsman,

    Similar comments were made out about EC initially.
    Lets wait for the law, and then lets check its implementation.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
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  17. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    Re: 5 points that make Arvind Kejriwal's Delhi Lokpal Bill 2014 BETTER


    Kejriwal wants to have the Delhi Police to be accountable to the people of Delhi. A reasonable, fair and just demand.

    Expect more clashes between him and Delhi Police.
     
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