Neo
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I pitty you, even western education and environment didn't set you free, once a hater always a hater.
What a waste of resources.
3 muslims Shot dead in hatecrime, North Carolina, USA
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What a waste of resources.
pmaitra
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Firstly, you don't have free speech in Germany, because you have the Holocaust Denial Law. The debate is not whether the Holocaust happened; the debate is whether there is free speech in Germany. The answer is - no. You may disagree, but we won't settle that in this thread.
Secondly, whatever happened in other places, this particular discussion is about what happened in Chapel Hill, NC. So, stick to the topic. We have threads on minority repression in Pakistan, so you can talk about those subjects there.
Thirdly, folks have spent the last two days fighting, and now, I want you, and others, to tone down the rage.
That was a robbery; how does that relate to the topic at hand?
prohumanity
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Wait a minute...so you are trying to say that people should not wear the dress they like......That's absurd ! US constitution and bill of rights promised equality and justice for all and right to free speech, assembly and faith....that's why people came to US thinking this a a fair society.
The racist people are the true "Anti-Americans" as they are betraying and destroying constitutional values of USA. They are truly traitors and haters of this nation ....and not the people who wear their cherished clothes. You are blaming these kids for wearing clothes of their liking rather than blaming the hateful, racist, violent gunman . You can't be a real Indian.....Does anyone in India tell other people not to wear headscarf or Muslim cap or Sikh turban ? I have never heard or seen that in India.
sorcerer
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The intention of the post was : try and get into the main stream society rather than be a faction. The marginilization happens when you portray yourself as a faction and behave and act that way. Sometimes this is not good in an intolerant society like US where they are really reallly hyper about muslims after 9/11. It happens cuz of the ignorance of citizens in USA about rest of the world and thier culture etc.
Even a few learned muslims argue that folowing the religious prescribed clothes doesnt make you a better muslim. Is it not?
Saudi has strict rules for head scarf if you are in their land. My point is..you cant take Saudi to US..each culture their attire. The friction happens when you try to rub it in. (
)You cant expect to behave in a certain way and think that the host country will approve of it or take it for granted, where host country like USA is known for its intolerance.
Also
Factions have created problems for the host society in USA. We have posters posting hear about muslim students forming small groups in campus and trying to convert others. See these bring the religion and their followers in the spot light and majority of the host nation dont approve of such things. On top of it wearing such dress makes you stand out and you cant blame the host country for their reaction when you wear such a dress,
Old Maxim : "When in Rome, do as the Romans do " especially in intolerant society like USA.
Nobody in India tells other people about what they wear cuz INDIA my friend is a tolerant society unlike what the west hyprocrats think and preach about. India is a land of diversity and we have many cultures and practices. We are the tolerant society so its no use comparing INDIAN tolerance with the AMERICAN RACISM.
Be assured Iam a 100% Indian. Just because you failed to understand what I conveyed doesnt mean I am not a real Indian. Take it this way..i try to view things from a higher vantage point.
Do we all live by the rules..?
There is reality and then there is reality.,
Ofcourse US Is a Fair Society..Its called Whites . Fair also means WHITES...aint it?
. A few people misunderstand the meaning of fair.
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People should wear what they want, but as @sorcerer stated adjust with the mainstream of the host country and not impose your way and stick out like a sore thumb. For instance, if you are in an Islamic country, you cannot make a fuss because the azan call ruins your sleep/ rest. Yet, when it was being practised in the US, there were protests as in Hamtramck, leading to distrust and avoidable tension within the population. Azan or /adhan is the Islamic call to worship, recited by the muezzin at prescribed times of the day. The root of the word is ʾadhina' meaning "to listen, to hear, be informed about". It was essential in the medieval times, when there was no way to know the time. But today, what is the necessity to blare out on a loudspeaker that too in a non Islamic country and cause discomfort and alienation with the general populace?
Mardi Gras is celebrations, beginning on or after the Epiphany or King's Day and culminating on the day before Ash Wednesday signifying the practice of the last night of eating richer, fatty foods before the ritual fasting of the Lenten season. Lent, by the way, is a solemn religious observance in the liturgical calendar of many Christian denominations that begins on Ash Wednesday and covers a period of approximately six weeks before Easter Sunday. The traditional purpose of Lent is the preparation of the believer through prayer, penance, repentance of sins, almsgiving, atonement and self-denial. Note almost like Ramadan or Ramazan.
Imagine what will happen if a sizeable Christian community in an Islamic country were to celebrate like this:
The bottom line is try to be as close the the mainstream as one can.
While it is fashionable to be project oneself as a liberal emancipated human celebrating the rights, rites, customs, culture, tradition of people, unless it is universally applied, and not only selectively to secular Nations, it does not quite appear just or fair.
Why must ladies from secular countries have to wear a scarf on their head in most Islamic countries (see the news reporters of western channels in case one has not visited an Islamic country) when the women of Islamic countries demand that they will wear the burkha which upsets the western sensibilities since it reminds them of the shroud that resemble burial sheets, mound shroud, grave clothes, winding-cloths or winding-sheets?
Therefore, one must respect the sensibilities of the mainstream culture and not go cocking the snook and demanding and imposing your own culture and causing disgust, tension and resultant chaos including physical and even lethal confrontation and irreparable schism in the societal structure.
As far as India is concerned, a turban, a Muslim prayer hat, sandalwood caste marks on the forehead, a Cross dangling out of the blouse, and such like is acceptable and none will bother. Why? Not only because India is genuinely tolerant, notwithstanding what Obama has to say, but also because it a part of the Indian culture, tradition and custom.
America is fair, just, has values, and respect their Constitution?
Go tell it to the Marines (= Go fool someone else).
I could give many examples, but suffice it to say, the Blacks still have a bad deal and the Guantanamo detainees are deprived of legal recourse which is hardly what the US professes about under the garb of their hyperbolic unending propaganda about being the beacon of democracy, values, secularism, human rights, the land of fairness and justice and so on.
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sorcerer
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Partly off topic but says much about Tolerance by the islamic countries
As @Ray sir mentioned by Mardi Gras Example
Brunei Cracks Down on Chinese New Year
The country opens a new front in its battle against non-Muslim celebration
Brunei has imposed strict restrictions on Chinese New Year performances as part of an incremental crackdown against non-Muslim cultural and religious events in the country, Brunei news media outlets confirmed earlier this week.
A letter widely circulated around social media says that lion dances – a traditional Chinese dance where performers imitate a lion's movements in a lion costume to commemorate various festivals and occasions including Chinese New Year – can only be performed for a limited number of hours on just three days –February 19 to 21 – and only on three premises – the temple, school halls, and Chinese homes. Performances at all commercial establishments and public areas are strictly prohibited.
The dances must also be temporarily halted a half hour before and after designated Muslim prayers, and they must only involve Chinese students or community members. They may not be accompanied by firecrackers and fireworks.
The Ministry of Home Affairs subsequently confirmed that the contents of the letter are accurate.
Since Chinese New Year celebrations, including lion dances, usually go on for an extended period and are often public and festive, these regulations have been read to be extremely restrictive. Neighboring Malaysia and Indonesia for instance – both also Muslim-majority countries with Chinese minorities – are much more moderate on this score and no such curbs are in place.
While the extent of the crackdown is rather alarming, the move itself is not altogether surprising. As I have written before in these pages, Brunei, a tiny, oil-rich country with a population of just around 420,000 people, two-thirds of whom are Malay-Muslim, is no stranger to religious restrictions. This has only worsened following the implementation of a strict new penal code in May 2014, which curbed various forms of religious expression including teaching, proselytism and religious publishing.
Some were initially unsure about the extent to which these regulations would be implemented. But last December, the government launched a similar crackdown against Christmas decorations, which The Diplomat covered here and here. At the time, some had suspected that this would be extended to include other non-Muslim celebrations in 2015, including Chinese New Year.
The reasons behind the restrictions are also clear. Just a few days before the new rules were disclosed, imams warned in a Friday sermon that celebrations that were unrelated to Islam could "entice" Muslims to participate, leading them to commit tasyabbuh (imitation) and damage their aqidah (faith).
"Sometimes the excitement and fervor of the festivities celebrated by the followers of other religions attract and entice some Muslims to want to participate and join in the merriment"¦ It is feared that a casual following of this nature will lead to tasyabbuh and invariably taint the sanctity of the Muslim aqidah," the sermon reportedly read.
The practice of tasyabbuh or imitation by Muslims – which the sermon says can include seemingly "casual" acts like taking part in a lion dance show, wearing a Santa Claus outfit, and decorating homes with images or symbols not in line with Islamic teachings – can be interpreted as an offense under Section 207 (1) of the penal code, which is punishable by a fine of up to $20,000 and an imprisonment of up to five years, or both. Indeed, this was clearly stated in the government statement released last year during Brunei's 'war on Christmas.
Likewise, Chinese who ignore the restrictions on Chinese New Year festivities can be seen to be violating Section 209 (1) of the penal code – previously publicized as well last Christmas – that allows non-Muslims to celebrate their religious festivities only among their community and forbids them from disclosing or displaying them publicly to Muslims.
As The Diplomat reported previously, similar curbs introduced during Christmas last year led to discontent among some Bruneians, including Muslims who argued that their faith was strong enough to resist the temptations of a Christmas tree and that further religious restrictions may damage the country's international reputation. These new regulations are likely to elicit the same reactions.
Brunei Cracks Down on Chinese New Year | The Diplomat
@Ray, @pmaitra, @roma @ladder, @prohumanity, @Energon and all others
Hey!! @Neo .. Your Femme Fatale dance in here is pathetic
Its pretty fun to watch where some islamic majority countries showing intolerance to other religions and where your kind wants all the freedom in the world to do what ever you want in a non islamic host country where you are seeking asylum.
China can take a clue from these to understand the shape of things to come delivered via East Turkestan.
As @Ray sir mentioned by Mardi Gras Example
Brunei Cracks Down on Chinese New Year
The country opens a new front in its battle against non-Muslim celebration
Brunei has imposed strict restrictions on Chinese New Year performances as part of an incremental crackdown against non-Muslim cultural and religious events in the country, Brunei news media outlets confirmed earlier this week.
A letter widely circulated around social media says that lion dances – a traditional Chinese dance where performers imitate a lion's movements in a lion costume to commemorate various festivals and occasions including Chinese New Year – can only be performed for a limited number of hours on just three days –February 19 to 21 – and only on three premises – the temple, school halls, and Chinese homes. Performances at all commercial establishments and public areas are strictly prohibited.
The dances must also be temporarily halted a half hour before and after designated Muslim prayers, and they must only involve Chinese students or community members. They may not be accompanied by firecrackers and fireworks.
The Ministry of Home Affairs subsequently confirmed that the contents of the letter are accurate.
Since Chinese New Year celebrations, including lion dances, usually go on for an extended period and are often public and festive, these regulations have been read to be extremely restrictive. Neighboring Malaysia and Indonesia for instance – both also Muslim-majority countries with Chinese minorities – are much more moderate on this score and no such curbs are in place.
While the extent of the crackdown is rather alarming, the move itself is not altogether surprising. As I have written before in these pages, Brunei, a tiny, oil-rich country with a population of just around 420,000 people, two-thirds of whom are Malay-Muslim, is no stranger to religious restrictions. This has only worsened following the implementation of a strict new penal code in May 2014, which curbed various forms of religious expression including teaching, proselytism and religious publishing.
Some were initially unsure about the extent to which these regulations would be implemented. But last December, the government launched a similar crackdown against Christmas decorations, which The Diplomat covered here and here. At the time, some had suspected that this would be extended to include other non-Muslim celebrations in 2015, including Chinese New Year.
The reasons behind the restrictions are also clear. Just a few days before the new rules were disclosed, imams warned in a Friday sermon that celebrations that were unrelated to Islam could "entice" Muslims to participate, leading them to commit tasyabbuh (imitation) and damage their aqidah (faith).
"Sometimes the excitement and fervor of the festivities celebrated by the followers of other religions attract and entice some Muslims to want to participate and join in the merriment"¦ It is feared that a casual following of this nature will lead to tasyabbuh and invariably taint the sanctity of the Muslim aqidah," the sermon reportedly read.
The practice of tasyabbuh or imitation by Muslims – which the sermon says can include seemingly "casual" acts like taking part in a lion dance show, wearing a Santa Claus outfit, and decorating homes with images or symbols not in line with Islamic teachings – can be interpreted as an offense under Section 207 (1) of the penal code, which is punishable by a fine of up to $20,000 and an imprisonment of up to five years, or both. Indeed, this was clearly stated in the government statement released last year during Brunei's 'war on Christmas.
Likewise, Chinese who ignore the restrictions on Chinese New Year festivities can be seen to be violating Section 209 (1) of the penal code – previously publicized as well last Christmas – that allows non-Muslims to celebrate their religious festivities only among their community and forbids them from disclosing or displaying them publicly to Muslims.
As The Diplomat reported previously, similar curbs introduced during Christmas last year led to discontent among some Bruneians, including Muslims who argued that their faith was strong enough to resist the temptations of a Christmas tree and that further religious restrictions may damage the country's international reputation. These new regulations are likely to elicit the same reactions.
Brunei Cracks Down on Chinese New Year | The Diplomat
@Ray, @pmaitra, @roma @ladder, @prohumanity, @Energon and all others
Hey!! @Neo .. Your Femme Fatale dance in here is pathetic
Its pretty fun to watch where some islamic majority countries showing intolerance to other religions and where your kind wants all the freedom in the world to do what ever you want in a non islamic host country where you are seeking asylum.
China can take a clue from these to understand the shape of things to come delivered via East Turkestan.
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Murder incident to robbery is not a hate crime then. Good to know.
sorcerer
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murder is murder
Robbery is robbery
Hate crime is when murder happens and no robbery takes place.
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US is more intolerant and racist than India?:shocked:The intention of the post was : try and get into the main stream society rather than be a faction. The marginilization happens when you portray yourself as a faction and behave and act that way. Sometimes this is not good in an intolerant society like US where they are really reallly hyper about muslims after 9/11. It happens cuz of the ignorance of citizens in USA about rest of the world and thier culture etc.
Even a few learned muslims argue that folowing the religious prescribed clothes doesnt make you a better muslim. Is it not?
Saudi has strict rules for head scarf if you are in their land. My point is..you cant take Saudi to US..each culture their attire. The friction happens when you try to rub it in. (
You cant expect to behave in a certain way and think that the host country will approve of it or take it for granted, where host country like USA is known for its intolerance.
Also
Factions have created problems for the host society in USA. We have posters posting hear about muslim students forming small groups in campus and trying to convert others. See these bring the religion and their followers in the spot light and majority of the host nation dont approve of such things. On top of it wearing such dress makes you stand out and you cant blame the host country for their reaction when you wear such a dress,
Old Maxim : "When in Rome, do as the Romans do " especially in intolerant society like USA.
Nobody in India tells other people about what they wear cuz INDIA my friend is a tolerant society unlike what the west hyprocrats think and preach about. India is a land of diversity and we have many cultures and practices. We are the tolerant society so its no use comparing INDIAN tolerance with the AMERICAN RACISM.
Be assured Iam a 100% Indian. Just because you failed to understand what I conveyed doesnt mean I am not a real Indian. Take it this way..i try to view things from a higher vantage point.
Do we all live by the rules..?
There is reality and then there is reality.,
Ofcourse US Is a Fair Society..Its called Whites . Fair also means WHITES...aint it?
OK how many of you Indians would support immigration from other nations which are poorer?
sorcerer
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Are we not allowing migration?
Are we making fun of a guy wearing a skull cap?
Are we making fun of a woman in Burkha on the road? Do we give them those looks and make deregatory gestures.
Check around the same forum where Yezidis are opting for migration to India and lot more.
pmaitra
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I would support immigration from poorer countries if those immigrating were highly skilled, paying hefty taxes, and boosting the GDP of India.
As a matter of fact, India does support immigration of doctors and IT workers from poorer countries, just so that you know.
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And immigration of poor people is bad and you wont support it? Why?
And I want to know how many Indians actually support immigration the way US citizens do?
I dont see any Indian enthused about Bangladeshi immigrants.
What do you mean? You mean to say that americans make fun of skull caps and burkhas? Even if they did, how is that racism? Dont you think we would do the same if an American lady enters our cities in bikinis? It has more to do with cultural difference than racism. Claiming that we dont make fun of skull caps(to which we are used to ) as an example for us not being racists is like saying we dont make fun of ourselves and so we are not racists
You want to see real racism? See how our society treats Blacks who come here as tourists or workers. There were morons even in DFI who were commenting about how they cant understand why anyone would like Black prostitutes during that AAP stint in Delhi
And that proves what? Yezdis come here because India is more accessible for them. If given a choice, where do you think they will migrate to- US or India?
pmaitra
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Specious argument.
Your question: "OK how many of you Indians would support immigration from other nations which are poorer?"
My answer: "I would support immigration from poorer countries if those immigrating were highly skilled, paying hefty taxes, and boosting the GDP of India."
Everybody knows that the Muslim world is the worst and most hypocritical place when it comes to the rights of non-Muslim minorities.
But you cant take all the problems and issues of the screwed up Muslim world and heap it on the shoulders of individual decent Muslims.
These 3 young kids were just normal nice young American kids who just happened to be Muslim......otherwise they were as American as apple pie
It seems like this guy hated all religious people regardless of whether they were Christians, Muslims, Jews or whatever.
He was a militant atheist who was sick of religious people. The Deep South is not a good place for such people.
Chapell Hill is a college town, but still part of the Bible Belt.
The fact that they wore religious symbols like a hijab probably made him angrier and hate them even more.
Nonetheless another tragedy in a series of mounting tragedies involving mindless gun violence.
The biggest issue is every nutcase in the US can get a gun anytime they need one.
But you cant take all the problems and issues of the screwed up Muslim world and heap it on the shoulders of individual decent Muslims.
These 3 young kids were just normal nice young American kids who just happened to be Muslim......otherwise they were as American as apple pie
It seems like this guy hated all religious people regardless of whether they were Christians, Muslims, Jews or whatever.
He was a militant atheist who was sick of religious people. The Deep South is not a good place for such people.
Chapell Hill is a college town, but still part of the Bible Belt.
The fact that they wore religious symbols like a hijab probably made him angrier and hate them even more.
Nonetheless another tragedy in a series of mounting tragedies involving mindless gun violence.
The biggest issue is every nutcase in the US can get a gun anytime they need one.
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sorcerer
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I never said..I wont support people from countries with poorer economy coming over to India looking for jobs.Has any been killed becauase they are poor and talk a different language or religion.
Does the DFI constitute the entire India? There are people who comment about things but they dont go out on the street and shoot Bangladeshi immigrant. There are a lot of Bangladeshi immmigrants who work in India.
Making fun with a racist inclination inorder to hurt or provoke is racism not sarcasm.
Ps: Word of the day for you is "Eristic"
Really? How many americans in here complain of racism cuz of the dress they wear in here? Majority dont give a damn about what they wear.
We do make fun of ourself, thats the point we make fun of us all and we are tolerant.. but we dont go shooting people or make deregatory gestures or throw stones at people cuz they wear something which we think is not a norm.
Dont be igno rant of the fact and argue for the arguement sake.
Really? In my place,I see my African friends in college campus and a few playing in football clubs and they are not looked down upon something.They are a part and parcel of our society very much like all of us.You want to see real racism? See how our society treats Blacks who come here as tourists or workers. There were morons even in DFI who were commenting about how they cant understand why anyone would like Black prostitutes during that AAP stint in Delhi
The more of the people in DFI was pointing to how the Africans are into drug cartel and other money laundering schemes.
You were pointing to the fact that we are intolerant to migration from pooerer countries and with Yezidis example I am telling you that people do consider India as a destination
Given a choice.... India is a choice for a few who chose to come to India.
And to give you an idea about what EU parliament did.
Art of Living reaches out Yazidis, Shias and Christians in Iraq
Indians doing their bit. There are other organizations too.
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Sorry I misunderstood your position. My question should have been, why not support the immigration of low skilled people?
