29 dead 100 wounded - China suffers Mumbai style attack

[Ray]

Chinese military presence is a result of our own decision to allow China to cooperate in providing security to more than 10.000 Chinese in the region.
As for PA. China has always had more faith in her than any civil government.

This is most unfortunate.

If the Chinese, who are helping Pakistan in all aspects, are that hated that they require protection, then it is indeed a sad commentary.

And to make matters worse is that they require the Chinese Army to protect the Chinese in Pakistan, which is a sovereign nation and has its own Police and, if need be, the Army!

 

[Compersion]

X100 ..



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I believe this is mainly an RIP thread, Its really interesting to see how many Genuine Chinese have said RIP ..

Not really shameful it just shows where you all coming from ..

It is not a recent phenomena. The chinese have headed to India for wisdom and gained from it. Also when they came the people did not consider them to be unwelcome.

Sun Wukong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Mao Zedong consistently used Sun Wukong as a role model, and often spoke about the good example of the Monkey King, citing "his fearlessness in thinking, doing work, striving for the objective and extricating China from poverty".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey_to_the_West

There are reasons for India(ns) to be warning PRC about Pakistan and linking it to this terrorist attack. It is from experience, understanding and knowledge. They are not ill intentions.

 

[Hindi]

China: Kunming Attack by ‘Xinjiang Separatists’ Blamed on Internet - TIME

Even the state-controlled media were grumpy. We were in the Xinjiang Room at the Great Hall of the People (abbreviated in English, charmingly, as the G-HOP). Once a year, delegates from the National People's Congress, China's meek legislature, gather on the western edge of Beijing's Tiananmen Square ostensibly to debate policy and make laws. In reality, the rubber stamps are raised aloft — and they come down in cheerful, communist-enthralled unison.

The Xinjiang Room is named after the autonomous region of Xinjiang in China's northwest, which occupies one-sixth of the nation's landmass. Xinjiang is famous for its melons and flatbread, mosques and natural-gas reserves. If that doesn't sound very Chinese it's because Xinjiang culturally is much more Central Asian than East Asian. In fact, Xinjiang's name means New Frontier, and the region was only given that appellation in 1884 when China's Qing dynasty had conquered its population of ethnic Uighurs and other minorities. Since then, the region has chafed against rule from Beijing, which is farther from Xinjiang's Silk Road oases than Baghdad is. Memories of two short-lived republics of East Turkestan, as some Uighurs prefer to think of their homeland, have heightened separatist dreams ever since.

 

[davidbenjamin]

China has the means and the money and political will to eliminate seperatists from her soil.
She should act before they grow cells all over Eastern China.

Yes, China should also slaughter the terrorists in Pakistan. They are killing they loyal terrier army.

 

[alphacentury]

China has the means and the money and political will to eliminate seperatists from her soil.
She should act before they grow cells all over Eastern China.

 

[t_co]

X100 ..



==================

I believe this is mainly an RIP thread, Its really interesting to see how many Genuine Chinese have said RIP ..

Not really shameful it just shows where you all coming from ..

Kunal, if you look at the first page of the thread, you'll see that it was pretty much okay until @The_Messiah dragged Pakistan into the thread unprovoked.

 

[t_co]

Any country that has hegemonic aspirations in a region would do everything to 'destabilise' the neighbouring country that can be of import in the march towards hegemonic aspirations.

China may not indicate such tendencies since it may not be prudent to the image that China wishes to project in the international arena, now that China has become a major world player , and hence having to indicate of being a responsible power in maintain international harmony and peace.

It is not if India ever tries to curb China's sealanes, redirect Indian land power away from Tibet, and checkmate Indian regional ambitions with a potent and survivable nuclear arsenal. It is but a strategic compulsion for China to ensure that India, in no way, can have the wherewithal or political will to inhibit China in implementing her ambition and strategic goals. Hence, a weak India is a positive for China, and Pakistan is its cat's paw. Pakistan becoming rich, stable and externally respected is not the criterion since such a situation will not come to pass given Pakistan's history and its failure to capitalise fruitfully external crutches that she has leant on as a matter of course for its survival as a nation, even without external threats looming.

It is not a true statement that China has not supported the ISI and the terrorists. Brig Md Yusuf, the Deputy of the ISI and who orchestrated the Mujahideens in Afghanistan against the Soviet Union clearly indicates in his book 'The Bear Trap' the massive assistance given by the Chinese to the ISI. This would have never been known, but for the narration of Brig Md Yusuf. Therefore, how can one know of what is the extent of Chinese assistance to the ISI that is being given as of today? Chinese are known to be very secretative about their moves and nature of assistance.

China requires Pakistan as a cat's paw in her global quest and regional hegemony. Therefore, notwithstanding Pakistan assistance to terrorists or killing of Chinese technicians and engineers in Pakistan, China will turn the Nelson's eye and grin and bear it on the Chin, as Pakistani assisted terrorists run riot with their mayhem in China itself!

Ray, I said that China hasn't supported the ISI's endeavors since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Your evidence only points to Chinese support prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union. Glad to see that you support my point.

 

[t_co]

I would like to say that what you try to say is sophisticated and well-mannered and perhaps a good mature outlook that PRC ought to have. But unfortunately that reality that is envisioned is far away from the above and also dangerous.

You mention about "funding electricity, roads, and cell phone towers in Pakistan" you have to add "in the interest of PRC military and control".

Also if you are making Pakistan the role-model for PRC Islamic policy that economic "motivation" will somehow make these group of people be pro-PRC and subservient to whatever PRC says would be most mistaken since you are making a huge supposition that Pakistan is of a certain standard. The only reason that Pakistan is enviable to PRC is because it is anti-India and not because it is looking for economic development.

Please remember that Pakistan has had a rich history of taking billions of dollars in aid from very rich countries and much richer compared to PRC and carrying out and foretelling to others what they think and not listening from others - afterall it is easy for the Pakis. Case in point - it is easy for Pakistan to behave like a terrorist pariah on others instead of like you say focus on economic development.

Next that will kill your whole argument(s) and preamble that you have put together are the following words: North Korea.

PRC wants Pakistan to be a North Korea and not a Dubai, Saudi Arabia and even a Islamic South Korea. Please do not promote and promulgate something PRC has not done before to others and wont do on to others and frankly is not possible for PRC to do. Are the North Koreans asking why Pakistan is getting more aid. Are the Pakis asking why North Koreans are getting better missiles. From what anyone is reading the latter is more true (military dimension).

One can say any sane pragmatic PRC leader knows the last people to trust and depend on is the Pakis. Also it is safe to say PRC would not make a reliant satellite country they want to control to be more economic strong but to be more dependable. How do you make a country more controllable - make PRC to regulate, manipulates, and creates a hegemony for itself within the country of concern. Also there is far more important and better partners for PRC to invest and deal with and that is a fact - compare what PRC does with South Korea and North Korea.

Economic advancement and (any) occurrence in North Korea is controlled by PRC for reasons that you mentioned above to "curb" and "checkmate" others. Any economic advancement and occurrence in Pakistan ought to be looked at from the view point of PRC military motivation and wanting control Pakistan from within nothing else. The role-model for Pakistan is North Korea - Are the Pakis okay with that. Please do not assume the Pakis think the PRC is always good.

And thats why when the Pakis come and ask for payment and reward for "curbing" and "checkmating" the PRC will realise (and are realising) that Pakis have something that the North Koreans dont have. Also the character and behavior of Pakis is of a different blend to the North Koreans that will continue to ask for repayment for being anti-India. And also when PRC will try to explain to Pakis that they wants them to be another North Korea what do you think will be the response.

Further the thread that is on discussion here there are also words like ethnic cleansing and cultivation of patriotism due to internal tribulations that were mentioned before but have been put on the backburner because of the dastardly attacks. It is a fine-thin line that PRC is treading because the area is sensitive to scopes and domains that PRC does not have a history dealing be it through society and race (that will require it to line with the rest of the world) - but a certain neighbor of India and PRC is the PHD holder of such behavior. I really wish the PRC people and Chinese people are able to appreciate what is really happening and please go to the source of the issue that is the neighbor of India and PRC before it comes springs its tentacles to areas where there is no history of such things - you know why because it is easy for them.

Again condolences to the families it was a really shameful terrorist attack.

Compersion, thank you for your polite reply here; however, China does not want to 'control' Pakistan, since, for the most part, Pakistan does a fine job of doing what China wants it to do without any external direction from Beijing. Remember that China doesn't want South Asia to be dominated by any single country, and neither does Pakistan. Hence, by making Pakistan strong vis-a-vis India, China keeps South Asia split and can worry less about any nation there projecting power into its areas of concern. China doesn't need to order Pakistan to do anything; it just needs to make sure Pakistan has the capabilities to act on what its geopolitical imperatives force it to do.

 

[t_co]

Your last para answered it. Get sucked in like the US. Pakis are bloody lucky to get benefactors all time. Good. Please go ahead. Expect more attacks.

Pakistan has been helping China eliminate Uighur separatists for the past two years. The fact that these attackers couldn't get their hands on explosives or guns is testament to that.

Pak can't checkmate India on TW question of sea lanes.

Yes it can - why else would China be selling Pakistan ready-to-use submarines decades ahead of the Sindhughosh class, and rushing those sales such that Pakistan can induct those subs before the Scorpene?

It can't checkmate on Tibet.

Actually, by aiming 75% of the Indian Army at Punjab, it already does.

Even the terror thing is not working.

Actually, Pakistan was the source behind much of the intelligence against the Uighur cells in Xinjiang, that led Chinese authorities to kill dozens of them in ambushes. The ETIM leadership is being systematically eliminated as we speak.

Have fun countering Islamists. Actually you should crackdown even more in East Turkestan. We would love to see you tackle that & we hope you face the full Islamist backlash. We will just grab popcorn and watch the fun. Guess what it might just help us with our own terror issues as thy get diverted into your country.

They won't; most 'Islamist' terror in South Asia is motivated by the issue of Kashmir and UNSC Resolution 47. There, religion and Pakistani territorial claims allow the ISI and Taliban to share a common interest. In the case of Xinjiang, Pakistan has no territorial claims there, which means religion is the only motivator. Ergo, even if China cracks down in Xinjiang, it is unlikely the ISI would oppose it.

What's more, given how Islamist terror affects France, Russia, India, Pakistan, Israel, the Philippines, Malaysia, Myanmar, Bangladesh, Iran, Libya, Spain, the United States, Britain... I'm not sure how joining that fight is really a bad thing.

Finally, the last time China did a large-scale suppression of Islamist tendencies in Xinjiang, it worked for over 2 decades. In 1990, fundamentalist Muslims in Kashgar staged large riots; China responded by moving 2 infantry brigades in, driving the insurgents into the villages and hills, and then using artillery and airpower (including fuel-air explosives) on intransigent villages. The XPCC then went in and paved over the wreckage. The result was that all the young men of the region with separatist tendencies were killed or jailed, and the rest were cowed into submission for an entire generation - Xinjiang was mostly quiet for nineteen years.

Now, it seems a new generation has grown up without the proper respect for state authority. In that case, China should teach them a lesson with the brutal yet precise application of state power against themselves and everything they hold dear. It is already happening - the reports of 'gunbattles with police' are simply the tip of the iceberg...

 

[Neo]

Pakistan has been helping China eliminate Uighur separatists for the past two years. The fact that these attackers couldn't get their hands on explosives or guns is testament to that.



Yes it can - why else would China be selling Pakistan ready-to-use submarines decades ahead of the Sindhughosh class, and rushing those sales such that Pakistan can induct those subs before the Scorpene?



Actually, by aiming 75% of the Indian Army at Punjab, it already does.



Actually, Pakistan was the source behind much of the intelligence against the Uighur cells in Xinjiang, that led Chinese authorities to kill dozens of them in ambushes. The ETIM leadership is being systematically eliminated as we speak.



They won't; most 'Islamist' terror in South Asia is motivated by the issue of Kashmir and UNSC Resolution 47. There, religion and Pakistani territorial claims allow the ISI and Taliban to share a common interest. In the case of Xinjiang, Pakistan has no territorial claims there, which means religion is the only motivator. Ergo, even if China cracks down in Xinjiang, it is unlikely the ISI would oppose it.

What's more, given how Islamist terror affects France, Russia, India, Pakistan, Israel, the Philippines, Malaysia, Myanmar, Bangladesh, Iran, Libya, Spain, the United States, Britain... I'm not sure how joining that fight is really a bad thing.

Finally, the last time China did a large-scale suppression of Islamist tendencies in Xinjiang, it worked for over 2 decades. In 1990, fundamentalist Muslims in Kashgar staged large riots; China responded by moving 2 infantry brigades in, driving the insurgents into the villages and hills, and then using artillery and airpower (including fuel-air explosives) on intransigent villages. The XPCC then went in and paved over the wreckage. The result was that all the young men of the region with separatist tendencies were killed or jailed, and the rest were cowed into submission for an entire generation - Xinjiang was mostly quiet for nineteen years.

Now, it seems a new generation has grown up without the proper respect for state authority. In that case, China should teach them a lesson with the brutal yet precise application of state power against themselves and everything they hold dear. It is already happening - the reports of 'gunbattles with police' are simply the tip of the iceberg...

Excellent reply!

 

[Ray]

Ray, I said that China hasn't supported the ISI's endeavors since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Your evidence only points to Chinese support prior to the collapse of the Soviet Union. Glad to see that you support my point.

The support to ISI before the collapse would not have been known but for the book by the ISI top brass. And even if known, would have been denied by the Chinese as is the usual style.

Given that, China maybe supporting, but it will never be out, this someone admits!

 

[Compersion]

Compersion, thank you for your polite reply here; however, China does not want to 'control' Pakistan, since, for the most part, Pakistan does a fine job of doing what China wants it to do without any external direction from Beijing. Remember that China doesn't want South Asia to be dominated by any single country, and neither does Pakistan. Hence, by making Pakistan strong vis-a-vis India, China keeps South Asia split and can worry less about any nation there projecting power into its areas of concern. China doesn't need to order Pakistan to do anything; it just needs to make sure Pakistan has the capabilities to act on what its geopolitical imperatives force it to do.

Appreciate your reply. Please notice the difference two paragraphs superposed from what you wrote :

China does not want to 'control' North Korea, since, for the most part, North Korea does a fine job of doing what China wants it to do without any external direction from Beijing. Remember that China doesn't want Korean Peninsula/ South East Asia to be dominated by any single country, and neither does North Korea. Hence, by making North Korea strong vis-a-vis Japan / USA, China keeps Korean Peninsula / South East Asia split and can worry less about any nation there projecting power into its areas of concern. China doesn't need to order North Korea to do anything; it just needs to make sure North Korea has the capabilities to act on what its geopolitical imperatives force it to do.

(I have added only few words to what you wrote previously to bring your focus to the difference between Pakistan and North Korea. Different Blend.)

China does not want to 'control' Pakistan, since, for the most part, Pakistan does a fine job of doing using Islamic terrorism as well as the assumption of nuclear statehood and what China wants it to do without any external direction from Beijing. Remember that China doesn't want South Asia to be dominated by any single country, and neither does Pakistan. Hence, by making Pakistan strong vis-a-vis India, China keeps South Asia split using Islamic terrorism as well as assumption of nuclear statehood can worry less about any nation there projecting power into its areas of concern. China doesn't need to order Pakistan to do anything; it just needs to make sure Pakistan has the capabilities using Islamic terrorism as well as assumption of nuclear statehood to act on what its geopolitical imperatives force it to do.

You will synchronise the above and see that using Islamic terrorism is the difference between the two while assumption of nuclear statehood is the commonality between the two and main driver for the "curbing" and "checkmating" by PRC.

Question is what is the recent position being projected - refer to six party talks - subtly on North Korea by PRC (it's a embarrassment yet pertinent ally). I would imagine much the same views from PRC to Pakistan.

Do not be surprised if PRC focus on denuclearisation of South Asia and Korean Peninsula.

Finally Pakis have something that North Koreans do not have and that is that In their mind and psyche that PRC has a huge debt and owes Pakistan for the continuing curbing and checkmating of india. It is different to North Korea where PRC people laid down their lives and there is more control and with india there is more unilateral preparedness in terms of military and diplomacy (without pakis - that alone is a reason for Pakis to ask PRC for more and remind PRC their importance). With the Pakis This is something they have not been compensated for. How would the Pakis demonstrate to pRC they are of great value and they ought to pay as well as reward and continue to reward Pakistan (the Americans call it war on terror).It is inevitable there will be a clash between Pakistan and PRC both on terms of indebtedness and also terms of restitution. Also I am sure Pakistan does not want to be a North Korea.

Also no disrespect to PRC but India finds its policy towards Pakistan a compliment (acknowledgment of India potential) and also a embarrassment (Aka North Korea.) and sometimes confusing seeing thePRC unilateral large buildup of military and diplomacy to counter India (perhaps does not trust Pakis).

Finally the Pakis have transported their assumed nuclear statehood to other countries. How about terrorism from Pakistan ... Not in PRC - impossible - allies.

Islam is not a country. Pakistan is the factory for Islamic terrorism. They are both india and PRC neighbours and not like North Korea region.

Wish PRC and Chinese people appreciate what is happening and get in line with the rest of the world and regions.

If India and PRC sat down this would be the conversation:

PRC to India: xingjiang autonomous region

India to PRC: Kashmir.

What's common ... I am sure there is a depth in PRC pragmatism to appreciative the above, hence the high level dialogue between India and PRC.

 

[Compersion]

Excellent reply!

You means say that Pakistan supports use of military against terrorists and human rights abuse in xingjiang but in Kashmir - Pakistan does not supports use of military against terrorists and considers it abuse of human rights. What's the difference in the approach. Some might say not much and some might say india has rule of law and openness.

Do you mind to tell the world what is the official position of terrorism and exporting of such to other countries by Pakistan.

Shall we add the Afghanistan, North west region and Baluchistan into this. Use of military and abuse of human rights, What is Pakistan doing using terrorism ... And in PRC its own (supposed) ally.

 

[Kshatriya87]

Knife attack in China market kills 3, wounds 1 - The Hindu

One person was shot dead after a knife attack that left at least three people dead in a Chinese market on Friday, state media said, in the second such attack in two weeks.

Another person was injured in the attack in the southern city of Changsha, according to local radio station Hunan Jiaotong.

The attack comes two weeks after 29 people were killed in a knife attack at a train station in southwestern China that the government blamed on separatists from the far west Muslim region of Xinjiang.

Besides the attacker who was shot to death by police, another was captured and three escaped, the Hunan Daily newspaper reported. Changsha is the capital of Hunan province.

The media reports gave no details on the identity of Friday's attackers.

 

[mattster]

Pakistan has been helping China eliminate Uighur separatists for the past two years. The fact that these attackers couldn't get their hands on explosives or guns is testament to that.



Yes it can - why else would China be selling Pakistan ready-to-use submarines decades ahead of the Sindhughosh class, and rushing those sales such that Pakistan can induct those subs before the Scorpene?



Actually, by aiming 75% of the Indian Army at Punjab, it already does.



Actually, Pakistan was the source behind much of the intelligence against the Uighur cells in Xinjiang, that led Chinese authorities to kill dozens of them in ambushes. The ETIM leadership is being systematically eliminated as we speak.



They won't; most 'Islamist' terror in South Asia is motivated by the issue of Kashmir and UNSC Resolution 47. There, religion and Pakistani territorial claims allow the ISI and Taliban to share a common interest. In the case of Xinjiang, Pakistan has no territorial claims there, which means religion is the only motivator. Ergo, even if China cracks down in Xinjiang, it is unlikely the ISI would oppose it.

What's more, given how Islamist terror affects France, Russia, India, Pakistan, Israel, the Philippines, Malaysia, Myanmar, Bangladesh, Iran, Libya, Spain, the United States, Britain... I'm not sure how joining that fight is really a bad thing.

Finally, the last time China did a large-scale suppression of Islamist tendencies in Xinjiang, it worked for over 2 decades. In 1990, fundamentalist Muslims in Kashgar staged large riots; China responded by moving 2 infantry brigades in, driving the insurgents into the villages and hills, and then using artillery and airpower (including fuel-air explosives) on intransigent villages. The XPCC then went in and paved over the wreckage. The result was that all the young men of the region with separatist tendencies were killed or jailed, and the rest were cowed into submission for an entire generation - Xinjiang was mostly quiet for nineteen years.

Now, it seems a new generation has grown up without the proper respect for state authority. In that case, China should teach them a lesson with the brutal yet precise application of state power against themselves and everything they hold dear. It is already happening - the reports of 'gunbattles with police' are simply the tip of the iceberg...

OMG.........isnt this sweet indeed !!

For once after how many years of being a member of DFI........I am finally witnessing a Chinese member of DFI just coming out and telling the truth - no spin, just flat out admitting that the Chinese government will simply massacre any number of innocent people to nab a few separatists.

Including use fuel-air explosives which truly fall under the category WMD. t_co just admitted to large scale civilian mass-murder by the PLA, but off course we all know that most Han Chinese don't see the Uyghur as people, just garbage they needs to be cleaned up.

I say we are finally making some progress here with our Chinamen friends ! I like this new honesty.....

 

[Blackwater]

Knife attack in China market kills 3, wounds 1 - The Hindu

One person was shot dead after a knife attack that left at least three people dead in a Chinese market on Friday, state media said, in the second such attack in two weeks.

Another person was injured in the attack in the southern city of Changsha, according to local radio station Hunan Jiaotong.

The attack comes two weeks after 29 people were killed in a knife attack at a train station in southwestern China that the government blamed on separatists from the far west Muslim region of Xinjiang.

Besides the attacker who was shot to death by police, another was captured and three escaped, the Hunan Daily newspaper reported. Changsha is the capital of Hunan province.

The media reports gave no details on the identity of Friday's attackers.

lets the chinis have the taste of deeper friendship with pakistan