27 killed in violence in China's Xinjiang.

TrueSpirit

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I have always said beware of the fundamentalists.

They are very motivated and even brainwashed, if you will!
Sir, I believe such developments are inevitable in view of Han's sustained persecution of its minorities. Not everyone can be as docile as the peaceful Tibetan monks, who are bounded by their religion & choose not to respond. Otherwise, Tibetans themselves have a history of militant nationalism & they had kept the Han on their knees for nearly a millennium.

Uighur's, on the other hand, are not hemmed in, instead encouraged by their religion to reply in kind (& more).
 

TrueSpirit

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The situation might be much serious than depicted since CCP has strict control over it's media.They are even not ready to tell which "ethnicity" is doing these riots which is pretty obvious to guess.
Yes, it is pretty obvious that situation on ground is lot graver than Chinese media could ever dare to portray. Lot more conflagration is on cards (this is really nothing), owing to emerging, shifting security dynamics in Central Asia.
 

Ray

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The problem is that the Han Chinese are bent on removing all traces of history, traditions, customs, language, religion, culture et al.

Now that is not what any people will accept.

If one want to build a nation of different ethnic groups, religions, culture, language et al, one must allow them to have their singularity wherein they do not feel swamped.

But the Han have the arrogance to feel that the Han culture is the centre of the world and all must abandon their individuality and become Han.

The Tibetans and Uighurs are resisting and the poor Han does not understand that the Muslims are not the ones who can be trampled over!
 

maomao

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Xinjiang unrest is for a long time to stay.
Many deadly ambushes on Chinese Soldiers and Police are not even reported by CCP media.
I know the whole history of East Turkistan movement. And, CCP has resolved 90% of the issue by breading Uighurs out, and settleling Hans in large numbers in Xinjiang.
 

rock127

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More images... someone can save them before CCP makes them disappear.

 

amoy

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More images... someone can save them before CCP makes them disappear.
How important it is to master a foreign language! Do u know what those Chinese characters mean on pics? @央视新闻 = Chinese Central Televison News
 

rock127

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How important it is to master a foreign language! Do u know what those Chinese characters mean on pics? @央视新闻 = Chinese Central Televison News
Thanks for pointing. Can you please confirm if these are actual pics since some Chinese posted this.
 

amoy

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Thanks for pointing. Can you please confirm if these are actual pics since some Chinese posted this.
confirm? were I at the scene witnessing terrorists weilding knives?

anyway I have reported to mods of a terrorist sympathizer who posted so excitedly like dancing over dead victims

Sent from my 5910 using Tapatalk 2
 
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rock127

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confirm? were I at the scene witnessing terrorists weilding knives?

anyway I have reported to mods of a terrorist sympathizer who posted so excitedly like dancing over dead victims

Sent from my 5910 using Tapatalk 2
No, since you know the "foreign" language did you see any clue who has posted this etc?
 

mylegend

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What is shocking in this case is despite this case happen in the town that is 88% Uyghur, but it was located in traditionally more stable Eastern part of Xinjiang. The economic develop in their region is far better than the restive region southern part of Xinjiang where incident like this traditionally happen. This is the first incident in this town. Rumor speculate, that non of terrorists are locals, they have come all the way from foreign training camp and also restive region to trying to create an impression that unrest is spreading into entire Xinjiang.
 

Ray

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What is shocking in this case is despite this case happen in the town that is 88% Uyghur, but it was located in traditionally more stable Eastern part of Xinjiang. The economic develop in their region is far better than the restive region southern part of Xinjiang where incident like this traditionally happen. This is the first incident in this town. Rumor speculate, that non of terrorists are locals, they have come all the way from foreign training camp and also restive region to trying to create an impression that unrest is spreading into entire Xinjiang.
What action is China taking to see that foreign terrorists do not infiltrate into China?

What are the routes these foreign terrorists taking?

Through karakoram or through Nepal?

Or are they coming from the route that comes from the Central Asian Republics?

The foreign terrorists will not look like Uighurs and so would they not stick out like sore thumbs and can be apprehended before they can act?

Or are these terrorists Uighurs who have had training from a foreign country and so cannot be identified as being ethnically different from the Uighurs?
 
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mylegend

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That is just rumor, I would say more likely they are locals extremists from restive region that carry out the attack. Otherwise, we might see more advance weapon rather than knife. Many people undergoing training in foreign camp are Uyghurs who hold chinese passport. They pretend to non-Islamic country to travel, and reroute to training camp in Pakistan or other Islamic nations for training. They re-enter China legally using their Chinese passport. Using the knowledge they gain from training camp, they organized cell and carry out plan to attack. It is extremely unlikely that they sneak into the border.
What action is China taking to see that foreign terrorists do not infiltrate into China?

What are the routes these foreign terrorists taking?

Through karakoram or through Nepal?

Or are they coming from the route that comes from the Central Asian Republics?
 

MLRS

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April, 2013, Turkistan Islamic Party releases video of children in training

longwarjournal.org/archives/2013/04/turkistan_islamic_pa_2.php

Of course in the tribal areas.

Perhaps related to this attack?
 

no smoking

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The problem is that the Han Chinese are bent on removing all traces of history, traditions, customs, language, religion, culture et al.

Now that is not what any people will accept.

If one want to build a nation of different ethnic groups, religions, culture, language et al, one must allow them to have their singularity wherein they do not feel swamped.
I really don't think religions, culture and language are the key problems here. The real problem is the inequity on economy. Before 1978, there were far more restriction on their religions, culture and language, they didn't feel as bad as today. Why, because they saw their han neigbours were having the same living standard. But it is not the case anymore.

Furthermore, if religion, culture and language really matters, then as a democratic country, india should be doing far better than China on respecting them. The fact is, however, the ethic riots still happen. We can even see the insurgents which can't be found in China now.

But the Han have the arrogance to feel that the Han culture is the centre of the world and all must abandon their individuality and become Han.
You are wrong here, Han's arrogance on culture has gone since 1840 when westerners showed their superiority in everything. Now Hans and all these minorities in CHina are going through the same thing: westnize. The problem with these minorities is they are lagging behind.

The Tibetans and Uighurs are resisting and the poor Han does not understand that the Muslims are not the ones who can be trampled over!
After hundredes years of being neighbours in the same area, these hans fully understand what kind of people these muslims are. They have full confidence that these muslims can be crashed because they did this more than once. And now these riots are pushing more and more hans to hardline.
 

Ray

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That is just rumor, I would say more likely they are locals extremists from restive region that carry out the attack. Otherwise, we might see more advance weapon rather than knife. Many people undergoing training in foreign camp are Uyghurs who hold chinese passport. They pretend to non-Islamic country to travel, and reroute to training camp in Pakistan or other Islamic nations for training. They re-enter China legally using their Chinese passport. Using the knowledge they gain from training camp, they organized cell and carry out plan to attack. It is extremely unlikely that they sneak into the border.
Thanks.

It does indicate how they exit and enter China to carry out their acts.

A knife in the hand of an expert is a very potent weapon. It is silent and it is lethal, and it takes time for the victim to realise what has has happened. This gives time for the assailant to get away.

Military Commandos are trained to have high skills in knife attacks.

There are many incidents I could quote of very lethal and successful knifing. The latest was the beheading of the soldier in London. I am sure you have read of the same.
 

Ray

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I really don't think religions, culture and language are the key problems here. The real problem is the inequity on economy. Before 1978, there were far more restriction on their religions, culture and language, they didn't feel as bad as today. Why, because they saw their han neigbours were having the same living standard. But it is not the case anymore.

Furthermore, if religion, culture and language really matters, then as a democratic country, india should be doing far better than China on respecting them. The fact is, however, the ethic riots still happen. We can even see the insurgents which can't be found in China now.
Being in a democratic country, I will say that wherever there has been any restrictions, real or imagined, in religion, culture, language, there has been clashes between people; and some of these clashes have escalated into riots!

That is why, as far as feasible, the Govts avoid creating restrictions. That is why India remains a multi ethnic, multi religious, multi cultural, multi everything country.

In China, terrorists and insurgents are much less than anywhere else is because China's imposition of law and order is very swift with very little concern of human rights concerns that the international community has laid standards for. The Justice system is also swift and it does not have all the niceties and rigamarole of the Justice system of democratic countries where cases drag on and on, through layered courts of appeal and so on, leaving the situation handling with very little result, This encourages terrorists to act with greater courage in a democracy, where there is even a good chance of going scot free because of the legal lacunae in the system.

In China, the rule is very simple. If you are caught red handed in the acts of terrorism or acts against the State, you hang! This has a very salutary effect on would be terrorists. May not be a very correct way from the human rights standpoint, but it is very effective.


You are wrong here, Han's arrogance on culture has gone since 1840 when westerners showed their superiority in everything. Now Hans and all these minorities in CHina are going through the same thing: westnize. The problem with these minorities is they are lagging behind.
I don't think that there is anything to be embarrassed about Han cultural arrogance. It was there and it is there. If there was not this Han cultural arrogance, then so many people of multi ethnicity would not classify themselves as Han. Even the Hui, who have descended from a variety of Muslim lineage would not have adopted the Han culture (except for eating of pork), if there was no 'impression', gently or forcibly (called Sinicisation in academic circles) exerted..

Likewise, is the case of the Manchus who were the rulers. Their language is now spoken by only 90 people in China as per one academic report! There are no real Mancus left. They are all now called Han!

I could also mention about the Miaos, Yues and others, who are now Han.



After hundredes years of being neighbours in the same area, these hans fully understand what kind of people these muslims are. They have full confidence that these muslims can be crashed because they did this more than once. And now these riots are pushing more and more hans to hardline.
I would not take the Muslims so lightly. The Huis may have been tamed, but then there was no resurgence of Islam then. Now, the Muslims are on the move and they have been ignited with a new 'born again' religious cultural identity surge.

To imagine a Christian convert of an African origin so calmly beheading a British soldier on the assumption of waging war on Muslims in Afghanistan! What has Afghanistan to do with UK. The connection is the assumed religious affinity of an African origin British convert with the Muslim tribal of Afghanistan, and possibly he would not even be able to spell 'Afghanistan'. That is the type of fire that is engining these 'born again' Muslims! Therefore, one cannot take terrorism lightly!

This 'born again' phenomenon and its effects are being adversely felt the world over, including China.

It requires handling with care and not by force.
 
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no smoking

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Being in a democratic country, I will say that wherever there has been any restrictions, real or imagined, in religion, culture, language, there has been clashes between people; and some of these clashes have escalated into riots!

That is why, as far as feasible, the Govts avoid creating restrictions. That is why India remains a multi ethnic, multi religious, multi cultural, multi everything country.

In China, terrorists and insurgents are much less than anywhere else is because China's imposition of law and order is very swift with very little concern of human rights concerns that the international community has laid standards for. The Justice system is also swift and it does not have all the niceties and rigamarole of the Justice system of democratic countries where cases drag on and on, through layered courts of appeal and so on, leaving the situation handling with very little result, This encourages terrorists to act with greater courage in a democracy, where there is even a good chance of going scot free because of the legal lacunae in the system.

In China, the rule is very simple. If you are caught red handed in the acts of terrorism or acts against the State, you hang! This has a very salutary effect on would be terrorists. May not be a very correct way from the human rights standpoint, but it is very effective.
Good thought! However, I wasn't commenting how effective China and india fight against terrorism. What we are talking about is the cause of this riot. You believe it is due to religion and culture. But as I pointed out it is more linked to the economic status difference which is reflected on the ethic groups--han is richer than minority in general. And Tibetans/Ugyhur are the two having the biggiest gaps.

I don't think that there is anything to be embarrassed about Han cultural arrogance. It was there and it is there. If there was not this Han cultural arrogance, then so many people of multi ethnicity would not classify themselves as Han.
Yes there is nothing embarrassed about hand cultural arrogance. But the problem is Chinese already lost it long time ago. Even today, the fact that there are still some Chineses suggesting that China should abandon Chinese charactors and turn to phonetic transcription can tell you how much Chinese feel proud about this han culture. And there is very few minorities classify themselves as Han! On the contrary, there are lots of hans trying to classify themselves as minorities for the preferential treatment on education/economic/political. Even for criminal, minority would receive lighter punishment than Han.

Even the Hui, who have descended from a variety of Muslim lineage would not have adopted the Han culture (except for eating of pork), if there was no 'impression', gently or forcibly (called Sinicisation in academic circles) exerted..
Well, Hui deprived from those muslim immigrants in ancient time, but if you look at their face today, majority of them are the Han muslim.

Likewise, is the case of the Manchus who were the rulers. Their language is now spoken by only 90 people in China as per one academic report! There are no real Mancus left. They are all now called Han!
Wrong again! Manchus language was lost even when their emperor still sit in Forbidden City. In the autobiography of last Qing emperor - Puyi, he mentioned a story: His manchus language was the worst one in his childhood even though this language was one of his lessons as an emperor, the reason was--there was no one he can speak with Manchus words except several shcolars.

Today, they are not called Han simply because you can't identify them from outlook. And their ID still record them as Manchus, which can bring them all the preferential treatments, why they give it up? Just remember, in China, showing your ethnic identity is not something to be shame of, no one care if you are han, hui or manchu. But you are still living a kind of traditional ethnic life would be laugh at. Modernization or Westernization is how you will be judged.

I could also mention about the Miaos, Yues and others, who are now Han.
But the fact is they are not. And they will not be in the near future.


I would not take the Muslims so lightly. The Huis may have been tamed, but then there was no resurgence of Islam then. Now, the Muslims are on the move and they have been ignited with a new 'born again' religious cultural identity surge.

To imagine a Christian convert of an African origin so calmly beheading a British soldier on the assumption of waging war on Muslims in Afghanistan! What has Afghanistan to do with UK. The connection is the assumed religious affinity of an African origin British convert with the Muslim tribal of Afghanistan, and possibly he would not even be able to spell 'Afghanistan'. That is the type of fire that is engining these 'born again' Muslims! Therefore, one cannot take terrorism lightly!

This 'born again' phenomenon and its effects are being adversely felt the world over, including China.

It requires handling with care and not by force.
No one take them lightly. The problem is that they are taking Hans and CCPs lightly. Some of them think that killing hundreds of innocents can just scare these evil hans away. They forget this is a kind of people who didn't surrendered after 20 millions lost to Japanese. They forgot that it was Hans army wipe out their former masters; they also forget that it was hans army crashed their last mass scale fighting for independence even China was in the weakest time. They can fight for their cause but they should better understand what is the cost and prepare for it.
 

Ray

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Good thought! However, I wasn't commenting how effective China and india fight against terrorism. What we are talking about is the cause of this riot. You believe it is due to religion and culture. But as I pointed out it is more linked to the economic status difference which is reflected on the ethic groups--han is richer than minority in general. And Tibetans/Ugyhur are the two having the biggiest gaps.
What you feel and what I feel are two distinct viewpoints, based on our experiences and cultural values.

As it appears, happiness and contentment of the Chinese, it appears, is solely based on Money. This is not my observation alone, but has also been reflected by Chinese commentators. Therefore, it is understandable that you base the minority dissatisfaction on the economic disparity that is there between the minorities and the Han.

However, our experience is that it is not economic disparities that cause dissatisfaction and rebellion. The world over, dissatisfaction leading to violence can be seen hovering around religious, cultural and sectarian issues. It is not that the economic issues do not play its part, but these are usually a minor input to a larger issue.

Religion is a big thing amongst Muslims and it cannot be ignored. One can see it the world over, to include India. Most of our law and order problems, to include riots are religion based.

You may claim that the Maoist issue is not religion based. That is true to some extent, but dig the surface and you will find religion is there. Most of the NE issues have been ignited by religious organisations led by foreign religious heads, who have also highlighted and used the cultural diversity to suit their purpose.. Even the Maoists have religious denomination playing a role, ingeniously disguised as social issues!

The Tibetans being permitted by China to display the pictures of HH The Dalai Lama, after 17 years of proscribing the same, indicates that it is religion that is behind the unrest in Tibet, while indeed, the economic issues playing a side role.


Yes there is nothing embarrassed about hand cultural arrogance. But the problem is Chinese already lost it long time ago. Even today, the fact that there are still some Chineses suggesting that China should abandon Chinese charactors and turn to phonetic transcription can tell you how much Chinese feel proud about this han culture. And there is very few minorities classify themselves as Han! On the contrary, there are lots of hans trying to classify themselves as minorities for the preferential treatment on education/economic/political. Even for criminal, minority would receive lighter punishment than Han.
Your claim that minorities get lighter punishment in China maybe right. But that is appeasing the minorities so that they remain calm and not add this as an excuse for violent airing of their grievances.

The reason why some what to abandon the Chinese script for the westernised script is possibly because the Chinese feel that being westernised is being modern and being more acceptable. That is why the Chinese have gone in a frenzied manner to embrace economic system, business practices, western dresses, food, wines, cosmetic, junk food et al.

That apart, the manner in which the Han people internationally closed shoulders during the Olympic Flame run through the world is indicative of the intensity of the Han identity that flows from the Han arrogance that makes them feel that they are the best and are insurmountable.

Or the manner in which Mandarin is imposed as the sole language upon the minorities, if they wish to find a suitable place within China.

汉化 Hànhuà and 中国化 Zhōngguóhuà are the process how alphabet, diet, economics, industry, language, law, lifestyle, politics, religion, sartorial choices, technology, culture, and cultural values of the Han was infused into non Han people. This was possible because the Han impressed on the non Han that the Han culture and society was a superior one to theirs and made them change to Han.



Well, Hui deprived from those muslim immigrants in ancient time, but if you look at their face today, majority of them are the Han muslim.
That is right.

That is the result of Sinicisation, where they have been impressed upon the superiority of the Han civilsation, which is what one could say was through Han cultural arrogance that Hans alone were the best.



Wrong again! Manchus language was lost even when their emperor still sit in Forbidden City. In the autobiography of last Qing emperor - Puyi, he mentioned a story: His manchus language was the worst one in his childhood even though this language was one of his lessons as an emperor, the reason was--there was no one he can speak with Manchus words except several shcolars.
One could read the book, Manchus and Han by EDWARD J. M. RHOADS to understand the relationship and cultural assimilation.

It is claimed that 70 native and semi-speakers of Manchu out of a total of nearly 10 million ethnic Manchus remain.

I believe that the Manchu language is a very difficult language where an affix typically represents one unit of meaning. Therefore, it is obvious that the Emperor found it difficult.


Today, they are not called Han simply because you can't identify them from outlook. And their ID still record them as Manchus, which can bring them all the preferential treatments, why they give it up? Just remember, in China, showing your ethnic identity is not something to be shame of, no one care if you are han, hui or manchu. But you are still living a kind of traditional ethnic life would be laugh at. Modernization or Westernization is how you will be judged.
It is a longstanding myth in China that all peoples inhabiting the territory form a homogeneous whole, the Zhonghua minzu 中华民族, or Chinese nationality. This myth is based upon the premise of a shared descent from the mythological Yellow Emperor, the foundation figure of all Chinese who was purportedly born in 2704 BCE. This legend in turn forms the basis for a (racial) nationalism that implies the existence of primal biological and cultural bonds among China's various ethnic groups. According to scientific research conducted in the early 20th century, the Han nationality was the main branch of all the different population groups in China. This principle forms the basis of China's minority policy. All minority groups ultimately belong to the same 'yellow' race, although they are deemed inferior to it. In other words, the political boundaries of China appeared to be founded on clear biological markers. This line of reasoning has resulted in the official concept that the Chinese people form one big, united family of ethnic groups.

The levels of development of the minorities differ widely, and they are highly heterogeneous both culturally and physically. Some are highly urbanized, while some others practiced slash-and-burn agriculture in the not too distant past. Nonetheless, the Han Chinese always have felt that they are on a civilizing mission and have an obligation to help and defend all those peoples that they consider their inferior, backward (luohou 落后) 'younger brothers' (didi 弟弟).
The actual inventory and identification of these minorities only started after the PRC was formally founded. In the Republican period, only five ethnic groups were recognized: Han, Manchu, Mongol, Tibetan and Muslim. In 1950, numerous 'Visit the Nationalities'-teams were sent out to determine what actually constituted minorities, what could be considered as sub-branches of nationalities, or what groups in reality actually belonged to the Han nationality. Initially, the CCP adopted a very broadminded attitude towards the non-Han.

In the early 1930s, viewpoints such as the formation of a federal state granting a high degree of independence to minorities, or even the possibility of secession, were included in the Constitution of the Jiangxi Soviet. In Yan'an, the CCP became aware of the necessity of minority nationality support and appealed to them to support the struggle against Japan. Following Sun Yatsen's ideas about the minority issue, i.e., that all nationalities in China were equal, had the right to self-determination and would be part of a free and united republic of China, Mao asserted that their spoken and written languages, their manners and customs and their religious beliefs had to be respected.

The nationalities' policies as phrased in the Common Program of 1949, the provisional Constitution that predated the first Constitution promulgated in 1954, actually favored those groups that had a minority status. One result of this was that the first national census, which took place in 1953, reported no less than 400 minorities. In the period 1953-1956, all these groups that asserted a separate nationality status were determined by applying the definitions that Josef Stalin had defined as markers for nationality status. Thus, they had to share a common language, a common economic base, a common psychological makeup (or culture), and a common territory. As this was not always applicable in China, the markers of historical origin, migration history and agreement by the people themselves were added. By applying these definitions, 54 minorities had been officially recognized as such by 1957. Over the years, the identification work would continue. The last people to be recognized, the Jinou, was added in 1979....

Although it can be said that these elements have saved certain minority practices from extinction, they at the same time have had a stiffling effect on the development of these peoples. The 'noble savages' in their colorful national costumes, fellow countrymen yet so alien, living in their traditional dwellings and compounds, engaging in traditional songs and dances, have become important components of a thriving tourist industry that caters to both foreign and Chinese visitors. Sadly enough, the minorities themselves usually are not sharing in the profits......

Despite the official recognition of separate ethnic groups, there exist both an ingrained prejudice and a local negative opinion among the Han Chinese towards these minorities, something that is inevitably noted by the minorities themselves. The Chinese mistrust and bias towards non-Han as barbarians are age-old phenomena. Some of this is discernible by the appellations of the minorities in Chinese: in many cases, the characters that were used for the official name of a minority originally contained the pictorial element of 'dog' or 'pig'. Although this has been changed in most cases, minorities are still not completely accepted and integrated. Many Han Chinese continue to see minorities as childlike persons, wearing colorful costumes and spending the day with song, dance and other typical local practices.

National Minorities


You must read this article in detail.


No one take them lightly. The problem is that they are taking Hans and CCPs lightly. Some of them think that killing hundreds of innocents can just scare these evil hans away. They forget this is a kind of people who didn't surrendered after 20 millions lost to Japanese. They forgot that it was Hans army wipe out their former masters; they also forget that it was hans army crashed their last mass scale fighting for independence even China was in the weakest time. They can fight for their cause but they should better [
understand what is the cost and prepare for it.
There can be no military solution.
 

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