1971 Indo-Pak War: US involvement

Discussion in 'Military History' started by LETHALFORCE, Oct 10, 2009.

  1. Khagesh

    Khagesh Regular Member

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    Here's how the Americans use third world countries and also shows how kala angrez still spin their master's voice. Pakistan allowed itself to be used while India did not.

    US promised India help if China attacked during 1971 Indo-Pak war - The Times of India

    The guy is bloody, threatening us with 4 Paki divisions while acting as the go to guy the good cop with the chinese as his bad cop. :rofl:
     
  2. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    What nonsense from Josy Joseph.

    The US encouraged PRC to attack India. It was the USSR that threatened PRC to stay out.

    And in 1962? Only Kennedy was in favour of supplying arms to India, which never arrived. Kennedy's Defense Secretary was against helping India and the Congress was at best ambiguous. It was explicitly stated that many senior officials in US gave more importance to Pakistan than India. Bottom line is, we never got was we wanted in 1962.

    Agreed. US position in 1971 was the same as 1962. They will send out signal but real help, they will not deliver.

    Looks like there is a desperate attempt at re-inventing history.
     
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  3. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Kennedy had planes ready for drops in india but Nehru refused fearing an escalation.
    How much of this is true is not known??
     
  4. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    LF, Kennedy has been at loggerheads with many people within the Administration. Some of these people were even out of control of the US Congress. Don't know what it was then, but today, a big chuck of Pentagon's budget is beyond Congressional audit.

    Kennedy was also at logger-heads with the CIA over Cuba. Wikipedia says that Kennedy gave consent to the invasion of Cuba, but there are alternative theories that the Cuban invasion happened without Kennedy's knowledge, after which Kennedy fired the CIA Director Allen Dulles. Kennedy did not live long.

    Chapter V. The Kennedy-CIA Divergence Over Cuba
    Did JFK sign his death warrant by firing CIA chief?

    The point I am trying to make is, Kennedy might have been in favour of helping India, but that the help never came (token arms supplies, that too after NEFA was cut off, do not count) indicates that Kennedy had little control over what the US as a military power was about to do.
     
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  5. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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  6. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    There is truth to that statement. Under Nehru, India adopted a pacifist path. We should have focused on securing our borders. We had many challenges. Why we did secure much of J&K, Hyderabad State, Junagarh, we failed to see the threat after PLA inavded Tibet. At that time, the US was interested in using India against Tibet, but India made only half hearted efforts. We should have secured Aksai Chin then, but we lost it soon after in the early 50s. No, we did not lose it in 1962. 1962 was only a confirmation of a fait acompli.
     
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  7. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member Banned

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    Was Nixon Gay ?

    Gay-rights activist and award-winning author Larry Kramer is 79 and in failing health, but that won’t defuse the impact of his latest bombshell project: the first 800-page instalment of a two-part history of America that tells of the secret gay life of figures from Alexander Hamilton, George Washington and Abraham Lincoln to Mark Twain, Herman Melville and Richard Nixon.

    Were Lincoln and Nixon gay? The ‘history’ book that is dividing America | World news | The Guardian
     
  8. Khagesh

    Khagesh Regular Member

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    Actually some also claim that the Tibetans were betrayed by the Americans for the Chinese.

    You see when the Soviets and Chinese fell out just after the Great Leap Wherever, the Soviets in 1960 had withdrawn all help for the Chinese nuclear establishment. By that time Soviets had only give some equipment (as in very few) for a (or one) Gaseous Diffusion Plant which was during that time a promising method of enrichment.

    The timeline for the Chinese resolve to get a People's Nuclear Bomb that would kill everybody comprador bourgeoisie in the capitalists countries and wayward socialists of USSR too. Thus the peoples republic would be brought about immediately after this war by the unity of the remaining people.

    Just after this comes the Jupiter missile in Turkey. Then the Soviet reaction in Cuba in 62.

    In 62 comes the Chinese 'teach a lesson' war against India. Also the offer of help by the great president of USA. But India being dumb refuses it. Helps that there is Nehru in the gaddi who can be expected to drive blindfolded. So for some reason (!!!???) the ultimate secular, ultimate modernist, ultimate sahib somehow does not feel confident of relying on his own erstwhile mates (masters !!??).

    In 1963 the boundary dispute (Sino-Soviet) had come into the open when China explicitly raised the issue of territory lost through "unequal treaties" with tsarist Russia. After unsuccessful border consultations in 1964, Moscow began the process of a military buildup along the border with China and in Mongolia, which continued into the 1970s.

    The Gaseous diffusion plant (Lanzhou) started in Late 63 only and yet the first uranium based test came in Oct 64. Less than an year later. Sounds cool yeh. Chinese are greater than tallest mountains and deeper than seas. By the time China staged the October 1964 test it had an on-going gas centrifuge program for enriching uranium, although till 2014 nobody knows how much of uranium came from here for the Chic 1.

    Some years later the Chinese got their TN in one. Something that was not done by any other power. Except as some claim by India in Shakti 2 :p.

    Some decades later the US watched (approvingly!?) as the Chinese gave some bomb and enriched uranium to Pakis for the true Islamic Bomb that would protect all of Ummah and bring about the unity of all Ummah.

    Some decades after that the Pakis give the bomb to the Saudis as the Chinese watch (approvingly!?).

    Tibetans do not figure in the story right?

    Exactly.

    Now wanna know how much of the U235 is missing from US. And can you figure out why it is the US and its cohorts that want the accounting for every uranium atom ever refined. Why? Why? Why? What do they fear?
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2015
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  9. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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  10. Khagesh

    Khagesh Regular Member

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    Pakistan does put a gun to its own head oftentimes to negotiate.

    You can guess what the intent of US is in such a situation - Saving pakis the trouble of lose nukes or convincing India that Pakis will actually shoot themselves.

    What if this is a ruse to convince Indians of the necessity of Aman Ki Asha.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2015
  11. apple

    apple Regular Member

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    Congratulations on some top class trolling :clap: :clap:

    The US helping the Chinese develop nuclear weapons starting in 1960... Too stupid to even be responded to
     
  12. Khagesh

    Khagesh Regular Member

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    Ok, I noticed you.
    :thumb:
     
  13. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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  14. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

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    Re: Was Nixon Gay ?

    Just to be on topic, is Chuck Yeager on that list? :rolleyes:
     
  15. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member Banned

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    Re: Was Nixon Gay ?

    Oh Yah.... Just thought if Richard Nixon were to be gay ... his attitude towards Indira Gandhi and his world view could have been affected by that .... as also his liking for the Pakistanis - specially Yahya Khan --
     
  16. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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  17. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Israel helped India in 1971 war, reveals book



    http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...n-1971-war-reveals-book/article1-1146011.aspx

    India may not have had diplomatic ties with Israel but New Delhi quietly sought and got arms from Tel Aviv as it prepared to go to war with Pakistan in 1971, a book has revealed.

    The book, 1971, by scholar Srinath Raghavan offers fresh insights into the 14-day war that led to the creation of Bangladesh.

    Raghavan accessed the PN Haksar papers maintained at the Nehru Memorial Museum and Library in New Delhi. These papers document startling aspects of a war that is probably India’s finest military moment but has not been documented adequately. A diplomat, Haksar was also an adviser to the then Prime Minister Indira Gandhi.

    Raghavan’s research reveals that India’s ambassador to France DN Chatterjee began the process to get Israeli arms with a note to the external affairs ministry on July 6, 1971, saying assistance from Israel for “propaganda, finance and even procurement of armament and oil” would be “invaluable”.

    Gandhi immediately accepted the proposal and through the country’s external intelligence agency R&AW began the process to get the arms through the tiny principality of Liechtenstein.

    India didn’t have diplomatic ties with Israel at that time, having voted against its creation in 1948, and consistently supported the Arabs in the Israel-Palestine conflict.


    Israel was in middle of an arms shortage but prime minister Golda Meir stepped in to divert arms meant for Iran to India. She sent a note addressed to Gandhi in Hebrew through Shlomo Zabuldowicz, the director of the firm handling the secret transfers, with a request for diplomatic ties in return for arms. The diplomatic ties, however, could only be established in 1992 when Narasimha Rao was the Indian PM.

    Another note -- from then R&AW chief RN Kao on August 4, 1971 to Haksar — also finds mention in Raghavan’s book. The note detailed how the arms would be airlifted with a batch of Israeli instructors. The arms would eventually land up with the Indian Army and the Mukti Bahini, the guerilla force of Bengalis who would force the Pakistanis to surrender.

    Other revelations in the book include a secret agreement between Iran and Pakistan to give air cover to Karachi in case of an Indian attack. But the Shah of Iran reneged on the agreement, fearing retaliation from the Soviet Union.

    Interestingly, while Gandhi was worried about Chinese intervention, the then charge de affairs of the Indian embassy, Brajesh Mishra, who would go on to be the national security adviser in the Vajpayee government, sent an authoritative assessment that China would stay out of the war.

    Finally, the US move to send in the seventh fleet to “intimidate” India proved counter-productive. As soon as the American ships arrived, India decided to step up the offensive and para-dropped troops in Tangail to make a dash for Dhaka. As the capital fell, India forced a surrender before any international power could intervene.
     
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  18. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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  19. aliyah

    aliyah Regular Member

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    if countries leadership have will,they can do anything
     
  20. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member Banned

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    @Khagesh..
    A Communist detected ....:daru:
     

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