197 Light Utility Helicopter Deal

Which is the Best Solution for Indian Army`s ULH requirement ?


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sob

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Re: Defence Ministry to decide fate of 197 light utility helicopters

In the face of allegations MOD freezes all decision making processes and then the game starts afresh after 5-6 months have passed.

IMO MOD should not stop the process under any circumstances. The final decision may be delayed pending the results of the enquiry. This will ensure that we do not loose time.
 

Zebra

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Re: Defence Ministry to decide fate of 197 light utility helicopters

This tender is for LUH and is there another tender for LOH? :confused:

OR

They are both the same.
 

Armand2REP

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Re: Defence Ministry to decide fate of 197 light utility helicopters

Whenever the winner is France the decision is held up... MRCA, tankers, LUH, P-75I, Kaveri NG, QR SAM. Same old story... there is no problem signing immediately with Russia or USA.
 

Immanuel

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Re: Defence Ministry to decide fate of 197 light utility helicopters

I hope they cancel it, the Dhruv more than meets the needs of the LUH, just order 200 of Dhruv mk- 3 puppies asap. The Fennec is just a waste of money.

Why the heck are we buying foreign helo when a we have a world helo beater at home?
 

Armand2REP

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Re: Defence Ministry to decide fate of 197 light utility helicopters

Dhruv isn't an LUH being a heavier class of helicopter. GoI wanted a single engine LUH using Shakti but a price agreement has not been reached with Turbomeca to rework the gearbox. 197 foreign helicopters would be inducted immediately with 200 more LUH using Shakti being made domestically. The engine deal is what is likely holding this up.
 

Patriot

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Re: Defence Ministry to decide fate of 197 light utility helicopters

Whenever the winner is France the decision is held up... MRCA, tankers, LUH, P-75I, Kaveri NG, QR SAM. Same old story... there is no problem signing immediately with Russia or USA.
Because the French are not selling the fringe benefits or too adamant at the time of negotiations.

No doubt the products are world class but there is something called marketing, lobbying & having the good rapport with the political leadership, key parties & the end user for the favorable decisions.
 

Armand2REP

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Re: Defence Ministry to decide fate of 197 light utility helicopters

I think they are better at greasing the wheels.
 

Ray

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Re: Defence Ministry to decide fate of 197 light utility helicopters

What is the delay?

Waiting for who will pay more?
 

Apollyon

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Re: Defence Ministry to decide fate of 197 light utility helicopters

Dhruv isn't an LUH being a heavier class of helicopter. GoI wanted a single engine LUH using Shakti but a price agreement has not been reached with Turbomeca to rework the gearbox. 197 foreign helicopters would be inducted immediately with 200 more LUH using Shakti being made domestically. The engine deal is what is likely holding this up.
Turbomeca demanded $42 million (around half the budget of LUH) but offered to reduce it by half provided that the amount was adjusted against its offset liability but HAL still rejected the offer ... we waste millions for buying not so good weapons from Russia but can't spend some millions for indigenous effort ..!!

:facepalm:
 

agentperry

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Re: Defence Ministry to decide fate of 197 light utility helicopters

i genuine doubt- there is so much furor from forces side whenever indigenous products gets delayed- when foreign agreements gets delayed then why there is pin drop silence??
 

Ray

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Re: Defence Ministry to decide fate of 197 light utility helicopters

i genuine doubt- there is so much furor from forces side whenever indigenous products gets delayed- when foreign agreements gets delayed then why there is pin drop silence??
There are good reasons.

Foreign equipment is PROVED.

DRDO is a 'desire'.

Desires take so long that the delay of Proved equipment because of Indian bureaucratic delay (which the armed forces cannot control) is worth the wait!

More so when the 'Desires' that DRDO spins never seem to come and when they come, they are way below par!
 
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agentperry

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Re: Defence Ministry to decide fate of 197 light utility helicopters

There are good reasons.

Foreign equipment is PROVED.

DRDO is a 'desire'.

Desires take so long that the delay of Proved equipment because of Indian bureaucratic delay (which the armed forces cannot control) is worth the wait!

More so when the 'Desires' that DRDO spins never seem to come and when they come, they are way below par!
i want to know how these foreign stuff when rolled out for the first time in their native land are treated? same way or in this step-manner
 

agentperry

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Re: Defence Ministry to decide fate of 197 light utility helicopters

GoI decided to cut the no of luh order for hal if any delay occurs in this prog. why dont they cut these foreign orders when delays are occuring in them. cut their order in favor of hal luh
 

Immanuel

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Re: Defence Ministry to decide fate of 197 light utility helicopters

HAL is working on the LUH, first flight expected next year, they can have it ready for production by 2015, i think we can simply cancel the tender and just buy directly from HAL. No point ordering the others.
 

Zebra

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Re: Defence Ministry to decide fate of 197 light utility helicopters

HAL is working on the LUH, first flight expected next year, they can have it ready for production by 2015, i think we can simply cancel the tender and just buy directly from HAL. No point ordering the others.
Which engine they gonna use? Any news? Please.
 

Payeng

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Re: Defence Ministry to decide fate of 197 light utility helicopters

Which engine they gonna use? Any news? Please.
HAL's "Indian" Light Utility Copter Programme Invites Foreign Engine Bids

Remember the Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) that HAL is developing to meet a partial requirement of 187 helicopters by the Indian armed forces? HAL has now floated a tender inviting bids from "reputed TurboShaft Engine Manufacturers world over who would like to offer their engine along with associated instrumentation for integration on Light Utility Helicopter (LUH)." HAL reveals that during the production phase of the LUH (2013-14), 210 engines will be procured in phases. For starters, they want two flight-cleared engines delivered for testing and prototype flights by December 2011.

Ok, now for some engine specs. HAL is looking for a turboshaft with dual channel FADEC, with an independent backup fuel-control system in the event the FADEC packs up. The engine must allow time from start-up to take-off of 5-minutes or less. The dry weight of the engine, FADEC, backup controls and accessories must not exceed 200-kg, and it must be fully tropicalised to operate in the temperature range of -35°C to 50°C and a service ceiling of 7000m.

And obviously, since HAL can't pull it off alone, "HAL is also interested in entering into a long term business agreement with willing partners to take-up license manufacturing of engine or its parts at its facilities aimed to jointly meet the engine requirement on a global basis on mutual benefit terms. Consent for further exploration of transfer oftechnology for license manufacturing is to be indicated with sufficient details."

It is understood that the HAL was forced to look to other engine makers after Turbomeca acted difficult on a single Shakti engine configuration plan for the LUH, charging an inordinate sum of money for testing and evaluation. :frusty:

Livefist: HAL's "Indian" Light Utility Copter Programme Invites Foreign Engine Bids

2 Bids In To Engine HAL's Light Utility Copter

In the first week of this month, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) opened technical bids from two engine houses, the starting point of a process to select a turboshaft engine for its in-development Light Utility Helicopter (LUH). The two contenders are Turbomeca offering the Ardiden 1H1/Shakti -- which powers HAL's Dhruv and Light Combat Helicopter -- and T800, manufactured by LHTEC, a joint venture of Rolls-Royce and Honeywell. Turbomeca's Shakti engine, which was to have powered the LUH (platform schematics), was dropped as a default choice following a reported fall-out between the company and HAL over license fees. The LUH is being developed to meet a requirement of 187 helicopters (126 for the Indian Army and 61 for the Indian Air Force).
Livefist: 2 Bids In To Engine HAL's Light Utility Copter
:frusty:
 

Blackwater

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India's $1B Deal for Light Helos Faces Cancellation

NEW DELHI — India's $1 billion tender to buy 197 light utility helicopters (LUHs) could be canceled for the second time in five years,:taunt::taunt::taunt::taunt::taunt::taunt::taunt::taunt: while Italy's AgustaWestland may face blacklisting in India if allegations about use of a middleman in the competition are confirmed, according to Indian Defence Ministry officials.

The ministry has delayed making a selection in the competition between Russia's Kamov and Eurocopter following reports that Italian investigators were probing a 2009 award by the Indian Air Force to Finmeccanica subsidiary AgustaWestland for 12 very very important person (VVIP) helicopters. In the course of this investigation, evidence may have been uncovered that an Indian Air Force brigadier general had sought money from AgustaWestland to revise the technical requirements for the LUH competition.

The Defence Acquisition Council, India's top procurement body and under the chairmanship of the defense minister, deliberated on the LUH tender at its meetings the week ending Oct. 27, though no details are known.

According to media reports here, documents filed in an Italian court said an Indian Army officer sought money to revise the LUH tender, issued in 2009, to favor AgustaWestland during the initial stages of its evaluation in 2010. The Italian company was dropped for not meeting technical requirements and did not make it to the flight trial stage.

Kamov's Ka-226T is pitted against Eurocopter AS 550 C3 Fennec.

Calls to AgustaWestland offices were not answered. But the company issued a statement Nov. 1, which it said was in response to Indian press reports on the helicopter sales, that it never tried to "influence the selection or evaluation process" during the VVIP helicopter bid. The company said its relations with the Indian authorities were strictly "institutional."

The Indian Defence Ministry, through the Foreign Ministry, has asked the Italian authorities to make available to it documents relating to the probe into Finmeccanica. The documents include the name of a serving Indian officer relating to the LUH tender.

"The Ministry of Defence has asked the Italian government and concerned agencies there through MEA [Ministry of External Affairs] to provide the name and relevant documents relating to the alleged involvement of a brigadier in the ongoing process for the acquisition of 197 light utility helicopters for the Indian Army," the official Defence Ministry release said.

AgustaWestland could be blacklisted by the Indian government if it is found that the Italian company had used a middleman in the defense deals. According to Indian defense procurement law, overseas companies have to sign a statement that there are no middlemen or agents in the program.

"MoD will take strong action against the offenders detected through this probe," the official release said.

New Delhi has also asked Italy to provide details of the probe it is carrying out into the sale of 12 VVIP helicopters by AgustaWestland after Sikorsky was ejected in the race.

The probe into the India helicopter deal stems from claims of corruption made by Lorenzo Borgogni, a former external relations manager at Finmeccanica who was fired in 2011 after Giuseppe Orsi became CEO and chairman of the company. Borgogni admitted receiving payments worth 5.6 million euros ($7.2 million) from Finmeccanica supplier firms, which was deemed a violation of company ethics.

AgustaWestland had won the $400 million contract to sell 12 helicopters for use by the Indian Air Force to transport top officials, including the president and the prime minister. While the fate of the $400 million deal contracted in 2009 appears to be safe, and first deliveries are expected to take place this year, the Defence Ministry wants to put the LUH program on hold pending the probe into the matter, the ministry source said.

The Indian Air Force and Army need the light utility helicopters to replace aging Cheetah and Chetak helos, which ferry troops and rations to higher reaches of battle areas in the Himalayas, an IAF official said. The procurement of light utility helicopters is behind schedule by more than seven years, and any further delays will affect the ability of Indian defense forces to meet logistic requirements in the higher reaches, the official added.

India’s $1B Deal for Light Helos Faces Cancellation | Defense News | defensenews.com
 

Blackwater

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Re: India's $1B Deal for Light Helos Faces Cancellation

Cancellation of tenders and float new tender and pass the tender in 50 yrs,should be part of constitution of India:laugh::laugh::taunt1::taunt1::taunt1:
 

sathya

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Re: India's $1B Deal for Light Helos Faces Cancellation

good timing... its upto HAL to get LUH developed fast ..
 

Kunal Biswas

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Re: India's $1B Deal for Light Helos Faces Cancellation

Make more Dhruvs..
 

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