10-0 Kill Ratio in Air Combat by PAF in Soviet Afghan War.

Mad Indian

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they shot down all the combat aircraft not transport

how can it cant be called not air combat ratio?
Air combat should be compared between air superiority fighters not ground attack ones.


To give an analogy, is killing 1000 sheep greater than killing 50 wolves in combat if at all you call that a combat? :p

friend fire kill
Explain please....
 

farhan_9909

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Air combat should be compared between air superiority fighters not ground attack ones.


To give an analogy, is killing 1000 sheep greater than killing 50 wolves in combat if at all you call that a combat? :p



Explain please....
4 of the su 22 could carry a2a missile.and they were shot down by wvr and main gun not bvr
so does the mig 23


One PAF f-16 was shot down by a friendly fire by another f-16
 

average american

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I like kill ratios, in the end thats what the planes are made for and its the only thing that counts.

U.S. F-15 Eagle Kill Records:

5 Iraqi Mig-29 Fulcrums
7 Iraqi Mirage F-1's
8 Iraqi Mig-23's
2 Iraqi Mig-21's
1 Iraqi ll-76
2 Iraqi SU-25 Frogfoots
3 Iarqi SU-7/17
1 Iraqi MI-24 Hind
2 Iraqi SU-22 Fitters
2 Iraqi MIG-25 Foxbats
4 Serbian Mig-29 Fulcrums
1 Afghan MI-24 Hind (F-15E)
2 U.S. UH-60 Blackhawks (fratricide)

Israeli F-15 kill records:

80-92 Mig-21 Fishbeds
several MIG-25 Foxbats

Royal Saudi Air Force F-15 kill records:

2 Iranian F-4E Phantoms
2 Iraqi F-1 Mirages
1 Iraqi Mig-25

Japanese F-15 kill record:

1 Japanese F-15J (accidental shooting by another Japanese F-15J)

U.S. F/A-18C Hornet kill record:

2 Mig-21 Fishbeds

U.S. F-14 Tomcat kill records:

2 Libyan SU-22 Fitters
2 Libyan Mig-23 Floggers
1 Iraqi MI-8 Hip

Iranian F-14 Tomcat kill record:

?????

U.S. F-16 Fighting Falcon kill records:

1 Iraqi Mig-29 or Mig-23
1 Serbian Mig-29
4 Serbian Soko G-4 Super Galebs
1 Iraqi Mig-25 (first AMRAAM kill)

Israel F-16 kill records:

2 Syrian MI-8 Hips
44 Syrian Migs (mostly Floggers)

Dutch F-16 kill record:

1 Serbian Mig-29

PAF F-16 kill records:

2 Russian SU-22 Fitters
8 Afghan Aircrafts
1 PAF F-16 (fratricide)


U.S. A-10 Warthog kill record (tanks and aircrafts):

2 Iraqi Mi-8 Hips
850 + Iraqi T-72 MBTs, T-62 MBTs, & T-55 MBTs
300 Iraqi APCs

U.K AV-8A Sea Harrier kills in the Falkland War:

1 C-130 Hercules
1 Mirage III
9 Mirage V's
1 Canberra
1 Pucara
6 A-4 Skyhawks



Iraqi MIG-25PD kill record:

1 U.S. Navy F/A-18C Hornet

Ethiopian SU-27 kill record:

4 Eritrean MiG-29s

Eritrean MiG-29 kill record:

1 Ethiopian Mig-21

Russian MIG-29 Fulcrum kill record:

1 Afghan SU-22 Fitter

Iraqi Mig-21 kill record:

1 Iranian F-14 Tomcat
Other Iranian/Kuwait aircrafts?

Indian Mig-21 kill record:

4 PAF F-104 Starfighters
 

datguy79

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Then it is not air "combat" loss ratio dude
When you have as sorry of a combat history as Pakistan, grasping at straws seems in order. It is like watching a movie and rooting for the bad guy in the middle of it though you know the hero will kill him at the end.
 

average american

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Does any one know India kill air to air ratios.
I have had a real problem finding over all kill ratios.
 

Mad Indian

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4 of the su 22 could carry a2a missile.and they were shot down by wvr and main gun not bvr
so does the mig 23


One PAF f-16 was shot down by a friendly fire by another f-16
Sheep have tooth too does not are their bite as strong or dangerous as wolves:rolleyes:


Also just because they "could" carry , it does not mean they "did" carry "a-a" missiles. After all you did say they were on ground attack role and not air cover/superiority role...


But the American and British newspapers reported tat the F16 was lost to "gun" fire from a " ground attack" equipped Mig 23:lol:
 

farhan_9909

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Sheep have tooth too does not are their bite as strong or dangerous as wolves:rolleyes:


Also just because they "could" carry , it does not mean they "did" carry "a-a" missiles. After all you did say they were on ground attack role and not air cover/superiority role...


But the American and British newspapers reported tat the F16 was lost to "gun" fire from a " ground attack" equipped Mig 23:lol:
and what is your source that they intruded into pak airspace and without a2a missiles as well?

post the british news paper.and if it was a gun fire than the pilot would have not ejected..

when the pilot recieved missile approach warning he ejected
 

Mad Indian

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I like kill ratios, in the end thats what the planes are made for and its the only thing that counts.

U.S. F-15 Eagle Kill Records:

5 Iraqi Mig-29 Fulcrums
7 Iraqi Mirage F-1's
8 Iraqi Mig-23's
2 Iraqi Mig-21's
1 Iraqi ll-76
2 Iraqi SU-25 Frogfoots
3 Iarqi SU-7/17
1 Iraqi MI-24 Hind
2 Iraqi SU-22 Fitters
2 Iraqi MIG-25 Foxbats
4 Serbian Mig-29 Fulcrums
1 Afghan MI-24 Hind (F-15E)
2 U.S. UH-60 Blackhawks (fratricide)

Israeli F-15 kill records:

80-92 Mig-21 Fishbeds
several MIG-25 Foxbats

Royal Saudi Air Force F-15 kill records:

2 Iranian F-4E Phantoms
2 Iraqi F-1 Mirages
1 Iraqi Mig-25

Japanese F-15 kill record:

1 Japanese F-15J (accidental shooting by another Japanese F-15J)

U.S. F/A-18C Hornet kill record:

2 Mig-21 Fishbeds

U.S. F-14 Tomcat kill records:

2 Libyan SU-22 Fitters
2 Libyan Mig-23 Floggers
1 Iraqi MI-8 Hip

Iranian F-14 Tomcat kill record:

?????

U.S. F-16 Fighting Falcon kill records:

1 Iraqi Mig-29 or Mig-23
1 Serbian Mig-29
4 Serbian Soko G-4 Super Galebs
1 Iraqi Mig-25 (first AMRAAM kill)

Israel F-16 kill records:

2 Syrian MI-8 Hips
44 Syrian Migs (mostly Floggers)

Dutch F-16 kill record:

1 Serbian Mig-29

PAF F-16 kill records:

2 Russian SU-22 Fitters
8 Afghan Aircrafts
1 PAF F-16 (fratricide)


U.S. A-10 Warthog kill record (tanks and aircrafts):

2 Iraqi Mi-8 Hips
850 + Iraqi T-72 MBTs, T-62 MBTs, & T-55 MBTs
300 Iraqi APCs

U.K AV-8A Sea Harrier kills in the Falkland War:

1 C-130 Hercules
1 Mirage III
9 Mirage V's
1 Canberra
1 Pucara
6 A-4 Skyhawks



Iraqi MIG-25PD kill record:

1 U.S. Navy F/A-18C Hornet

Ethiopian SU-27 kill record:

4 Eritrean MiG-29s

Eritrean MiG-29 kill record:

1 Ethiopian Mig-21

Russian MIG-29 Fulcrum kill record:

1 Afghan SU-22 Fitter

Iraqi Mig-21 kill record:

1 Iranian F-14 Tomcat
Other Iranian/Kuwait aircrafts?

Indian Mig-21 kill record:

4 PAF F-104 Starfighters

To be frank and honest none of the American fighters faced any "competent" opposition from the Russian fighters in terms of pilot training or discipline. And so many of the American fighter succeses are over-rated(still better than Russian counterparts though)

For instance Mig 21,which looked like sitting ducks in the Arab Israeli conflict infront of Israeli air force ,was used by Indian air force to crush then the top line American fighter F104 of Paki air force at the time......


Hence I think these kill ratios are highly mis-leading imo.....
 

Mad Indian

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and what is your source that they intruded into pak airspace and without a2a missiles as well?

post the british news paper.and if it was a gun fire than the pilot would have not ejected..

when the pilot recieved missile approach warning he ejected
Dude read about the incidents properly. They clearly state that the Migs were performing ground attack or bombing raid. Use your brain as to what would have been the equipment of the aircraft at that time...


I don't know I read it some where.....
 

farhan_9909

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Dude read about the incidents properly. They clearly state that the Migs were performing ground attack or bombing raid. Use your brain as to what would have been the equipment of the aircraft at that time...


I don't know I read it some where.....
so we should have allowed them for the bombing?

they intruded into our airspace,we had zia as president with guys unlike zardari.hence they were shot down
 

Mad Indian

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so we should have allowed them for the bombing?

they intruded into our airspace,we had zia as president with guys unlike zardari.hence they were shot down
Did I say you should not defend your air space? I said air " combat" losses quoted here are an exaggeration as none of the engagements seem to be pure air to air ones.

Anyway here you go about the f 16 loss-The MiG-23 combat record


And you really think Imran khan is going to save Pakistan huh?:lol:
 

farhan_9909

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Did I say you should not defend your air space? I said air " combat" losses quoted here are an exaggeration as none of the engagements seem to be pure air to air ones.

Anyway here you go about the f 16 loss-The MiG-23 combat record


And you really think Imran khan is going to save Pakistan huh?:lol:
4 su 22 were shot down and all of them could carry or did carry a2a missiles

from your own source.which is not credible..even now i can post from the same source the armour thickness of AK and naiza round penetration power at 680mm rha at 2km

anyway from your own site..it is disputed and 4 different possibility

Later in Gulf war II, the Iraqis abandoned their MiG-23s in the desert and neglected them of any maintainance
The Soviet MiG-23MLDs were employed to defend the Afghan airspace along side the Afghan-Pakistani border and to defend Soviet strike aircraft from Pakistani F-16s, that in several occasions intercepted, engaged and downed Soviet and Afghan combat aircraft.
The Soviets reported that a Pakistani F-16 was downed and the Soviet MiG-23 pilots, Lieutenant Pochitalkin and Major Osipenko confirmed the F-16 loss but no Soviet Pilot was credited with it; Some of the possible explanations for the loss of the F-16 say the F-16 was shot down either by gun (since no AAMs were carried by the MiG-23MLDs that day) or it was out flown by the MiG-23MLDs thus causing one of the Pakistani pilots to shot down his own wingman other theories say that the F-16 was shot down by bomb fragments from the ground as it flew over after the MiG-23MLDs had drop their bombs or it suffered structural failure while manoeuvring at high G forces as it tried to get the MiG-23MLD on its gunsight, whatever was the reason the F-16 was shot down in combat with MiG-23MLDs .
*Out flown by Mig 23 causing Pakistani pilot to down his own wingman
*was show down by bomb fragments from the ground as it flew over after the mig 23 had drop their bombs
*structural failure


which 1 to accept?should i bombard you with tons of links about f-16 being shot down by friendly fire?

anyway thanks for the link it has just confirmed what i wanted to prove
 

Mad Indian

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4 su 22 were shot down and all of them could carry or did carry a2a missiles

from your own source.which is not credible..even now i can post from the same source the armour thickness of AK and naiza round penetration power at 680mm rha at 2km

anyway from your own site..it is disputed and 4 different possibility



*Out flown by Mig 23 causing Pakistani pilot to down his own wingman
*was show down by bomb fragments from the ground as it flew over after the mig 23 had drop their bombs
*structural failure


which 1 to accept?should i bombard you with tons of links about f-16 being shot down by friendly fire?

anyway thanks for the link it has just confirmed what i wanted to prove
It proved nothing. I posted the site to show that the aircraft was NOT carrying any a-a missiles:rolleyes: .

And I repeat again for the last time, the aircrafts shot down were attack air crafts(Atleast used in attack role) when they were shot down. You people sure are proud about winning a knife fight with a gun:lol:
 

farhan_9909

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It proved nothing. I posted the site to show that the aircraft was NOT carrying any a-a missiles:rolleyes: .

And I repeat again for the last time, the aircrafts shot down were attack air crafts(Atleast used in attack role) when they were shot down. You people sure are proud about winning a knife fight with a gun:lol:
what about the 4-5 su-22??
 

average american

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To be frank and honest none of the American fighters faced any "competent" opposition from the Russian fighters in terms of pilot training or discipline. And so many of the American fighter succeses are over-rated(still better than Russian counterparts though)

For instance Mig 21,which looked like sitting ducks in the Arab Israeli conflict infront of Israeli air force ,was used by Indian air force to crush then the top line American fighter F104 of Paki air force at the time......


Hence I think these kill ratios are highly mis-leading imo.....
I dont think that really matters the only bottom line is who dies and who lives, who wins and who loses. I would estimate there was two main reasons for such lopsided soviet losses,, stratgy and the soviet equipment was junk, i doubt if there was all that much differance in individual pliot training.....
 

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