Crisis in Tibet - Opression and Human rights violations by China

kuku · 18-07-09, 02:08 PM

Agreed, still we have to take the required steps to counter any offensive if it takes place.

Ray · 14-08-09, 10:11 PM

Could China and India go to war over Tibet?

By Dan Twining

Today is the 50th anniversary of the Lhasa uprising. Much of the associated commentary suggests that Tibet is, at most, an internal human rights issue in China, albeit one that impacts China's foreign relations with Western democracies who care about the plight of the Tibetan people. Indeed, the Dalai Lama's admission that Tibet is part of China, and that he seeks true autonomy rather than actual independence for his people, reaffirm this view. There is also, however, an external dimension to the Tibetan crisis, one that implicates core national security interests of nuclear-armed great powers.

This is the role Tibet's dispensation plays in the conflict between China and India. Indian strategist C. Raja Mohan puts it bluntly: "When there is relative tranquility in Tibet, India and China have reasonably good relations. When Sino-Tibetan tensions rise, India's relationship with China heads south." Although not widely recognized in the West, the nexus of Tibet and the unresolved border conflict between China and India ranks with the Taiwan Strait and Korean peninsula among Asia's leading flashpoints.

Contrary to Chinese propaganda, Tibet was not traditionally a part of China. Over the centuries, relations between China and Tibet were characterized by varying degrees of association spanning the spectrum from sovereignty to suzerainty to independence. The People's Liberation Army invaded Tibet in the middle of the last century precisely because Tibetans did not consent to Beijing's rule.

For its part, prior to Indian independence, then-British India vigorously supported Tibetan autonomy and sponsored the Himalayan kingdoms of Nepal, Bhutan, Sikkim, and Ladakh to create an expansive geographic buffer between China and the subcontinent. John Garver's excellent history of Sino-Indian rivalry contains useful maps depicting a rump China and an expansive Indian subcontinent separated by a vast, autonomous Tibet, demonstrating how far apart were India and China geographically until Chinese unification by the Communist Party several years after Indian independence gave them a common border.

That common border has since been a source of conflict. As is well known, India and China went to war over their territorial dispute in 1962, ending the era of what Indian Prime Minister Nehru called "Hindi-Chini bhai-bhai" ("Indians and Chinese are brothers"). What is less well known in the West is that China, while subsequently resolving 17 of its 18 outstanding land border disputes with neighboring countries, has kept the territorial conflict with India alive, at times appearing to inflame the issue as a source of leverage over New Delhi.

Over the past two years, Chinese officials have publicly asserted Chinese claims to the entire Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh, which some Chinese military advisors and strategists refer to as "Southern Tibet." Chinese forces have periodically engaged in small-scale cross-border encroachments, destroying Indian military bunkers and patrol bases in Ladakh and Sikkim.

At the same time, China has been systematically constructing road and rail networks across the Tibetan plateau in ways that tilt the balance of forces along the contested frontier in China's favor; India has responded with infrastructure projects of its own, including roads and air fields, to enable military reinforcement of its border regions, but has failed to keep pace with its northern neighbor. China has also positioned large numbers of military and security forces on the Tibetan plateau, mainly with an eye on suppressing popular unrest. But the possibility of using them to "teach India a lesson" (as in 1962) remains.

Indian pundits note that public reminders from Beijing of China's decisive victory over India in the 1962 war have spiked over the past year, sending what Indians believe is a clear signal to New Delhi at a time of rising tensions. Combined with China's reported deployment in Tibet of nuclear missiles targeting India, officials in New Delhi feel increasingly alarmed in the face of Chinese provocation. In striking statements little noted in the West, both Indian External Affairs Minister Pranab Mukherjee and respected former National Security Advisor Brajesh Mishra recently warned China against any attempt to seize Indian-held territory along their contested border.

Surging border tensions may be related to worries in Beijing over the Dalai Lama's succession. Some of the holiest sites in Tibetan Buddhism, including the sacred monastery at Tawang, are in Indian-held territory. The Dalai Lama, who has been in poor health, has said that he would not feel obligated to nominate a successor from, or be reborn in, Tibet proper, raising the possibility that the next Dalai Lama could be named outside China -- in the Tibetan cultural belt that stretches across northern India into Bhutan and Nepal.

Some Indian strategists fear that China may act to preempt, or respond to, an announcement of the Dalai Lama's chosen successor in India - particularly in Tawang -- by deploying the People's Liberation Army to occupy contested territory along the Sino-Indian border, as occurred in 1962, creating a risk of military conflict between the now nuclear-armed Asian giants.

Although China enjoys the dominant military position in the Tibetan plateau, India still has cards to play. It hosts the Dalai Lama's government-in-exile in Dharamsala, enabling Tibet's representatives to keep their cause alive in the court of world opinion. And unlike Britain -- which last October withdrew its recognition of China's "suzerainty" (in favor of "sovereignty") over Tibet in a failed effort to placate Beijing, leading one scornful Singaporean commentator to note that China was "bringing Europe to its knees" -- India continues to recognize only Chinese suzerainty over Tibet, rather than full and consensual sovereignty. This creates the possibility that New Delhi could play a "Tibet card" in its relations with Beijing in the same way that China accuses the United States of playing a "Taiwan card" to keep it off balance.

What do Sino-Indian border tensions linked to the Tibetan cause mean for the United States?

First, the U.S. has a compelling interest in preventing conflict between one of its largest trading partners and its newfound strategic partner.

Second, historic U.S. support for the cause of human rights in Tibet, in addition to Washington's growing military ties with New Delhi, mean that the United States would find it difficult to be a neutral arbiter in such a conflict.

Third, India's continuing political and moral support for the Tibetan government-in-exile demonstrates that it shares with America a set of ideals in foreign policy, creating the basis for greater values-based cooperation between Washington and New Delhi - a prospect that has not gone unnoticed in Beijing.

Fourth, given China's development of military capabilities designed to threaten U.S. access to the Western Pacific and Southeast Asian waterways, Chinese pressure on U.S. friends including the Philippines and Vietnam to back down on claims to contested islets in the South China Sea, and Chinese harassment of the U.S. Navy in Asian waters, Washington has an important interest in making perfectly clear to Beijing that the use of force to resolve contested territorial claims or limit freedom of the seas is unacceptable -- and could upend rather than facilitate China's peaceful rise.

Could China and India go to war over Tibet? By Dan Twining | Shadow Government

Given what Adm Mehta has said and the Chinese exercises off Indian borders and building of highways and three rail links into Tibet, is China preparing for a confrontation?

If so, is Indian ready?

Yusuf · 14-08-09, 10:17 PM

War over Tibet? Unlikely maybe impossible. Why will India get involved in the matter of Tibet? What we have fine so far is the max India will ho. Why will India put it's soldiers in harms way gor Tibet? We doubt India going to war over it's own territory in Aksai Chin. Why would it over Tibet?

Ray sir. You are more better placed to answer such questions.

Ray · 14-08-09, 10:20 PM

I was interested in opinions on this news article given the news on TV that China is conducting a huge exercise on the Indo Tibet border and expect to have three rail links by 2020 into Tibet.

This US term 'harm's way' gets my goat. Soldiering is not in anyway without being in harm's way! It is all euphemism that the US specialises in. Hyperbole and soft words!

War in Western China need not be direct. What about Tibet and Uighurs? They are not too keen to become Hans!!!

If Arunachal is Southern Tibet, then Tibet and Xinjiang are surely separate nations!

Yusuf · 14-08-09, 10:29 PM

Sir,
the topic of the thread is will India go to war with china over Tibet then seems to be a mis leading here. Why would India fight a war gor the Tibetans or the uighers?
Chinese build up and Indias response has more to fo with our own territory bring claimed by the Chinese. Yes azwar over that is possible, but not in the near future at least.

ahmedsid · 14-08-09, 10:30 PM

The Chinese Exercises recently are meant at showing force to their own people, that if any trouble erupts in any region in china, the army can reach there. I dont think China plans to face India with 50000 Soldiers. Correct me if I am wrong, the Chinese are a bit shaken by the recent show by the uighurs. Its not directed towards India I feel.

macintosh · 14-08-09, 10:31 PM

Don't know about war over Tibet(I mean it is probably impossible unless the war will be started by China itself) but yesterday while watching Times Now ( at 9:30 the discussion show with anchor pranav and topic was "Why is china not giving official comments on report of Dismembering India" ) they had an Indian guest(Forgot it's name) .When he was asked about China's subversive activities in North-east he said India had done similar activities in Tibet. I don't know if he really knew about it but that was something I was not anticipating. If he was true and if India will continue to play these subversive activities in Tibet then a Limited War with China over Tibet may be possible.

Ray · 14-08-09, 10:31 PM

Atiśa Dipankara Shrijnana (Bengali: অতীশ দীপঙ্কর শ্রীজ্ঞান �tish Dip�ngkor Srig�n) (980-1054 CE) was a Buddhist teacher from the Pala Empire who, along with Konchog Gyalpo and Marpa, was one of the major figures in the establishment of the Sarma lineages in Tibet after the repression of Buddhism by King Langdarma (Glang Darma).

So, is Tibet a part of Bengal?

That could be so, if the Chinese logic that Arunachal is Southern Tibet!

badguy2000 · 14-08-09, 10:36 PM

the exercises of PLA is to test the rapid action capacity of PLA.

it is the duty of paratroops called " armed police " to deal with domestic trouble like Uyghur thugs.

PLA's duty is to deal with threaten from foreign countries.

Daredevil · 14-08-09, 10:41 PM

This is what B. Raman has to say regarding military exercise Stride-2009. Highlighted the relevant portions with respect to Indian concerns.

Stride--2009--- China's Largest Ever Long-Range Military Exercise

By B. Raman

Four Divisions of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) of China with a total strength of about 50,000 troops and drawn from the Shenyang, Lanzhou, Jinan and Guangzhou military regions have embarked on a military exercise code-named Stride--- 2009 since August 11,2009. The exercise is due to last for two months. The exercise has been projected by the "Global Times" (August 12,2009) as China's largest ever, long-range military exercise.

2. Under this exercise, a Division of the Shenyang Military Region in the North-East will move to the Lanzhou Military Region in the North-West and a Division from the Lanzhou Region will move to the Shenyang Region. Similarly, two Divisions from the Jinan and the Guangzhou military Regions will exchange places. It is not clear from available details carried by the Government and Party controlled Chinese media whether the four Divisions will remain in their new place of deployment after the exercise or they will move back to their original place of deployment.

3. The objective of the exercise has been described as to test the ability of the Divisions to move rapidly from an area where they were raised and trained to an area to which they were not used. The objective is also to train the troops to fight anywhere, anytime and under any conditions. The exercise will also test the ability of the troops to deal with natural disasters in any part of the country. Another important aim is to test the new road, rail and air infrastructure raised by China in recent years and examine their capacity to support such large-scale movements without causing much inconvenience to the civilian population

4. The Lanzhou Military Region, one of the seven military regions of China, has under its jurisdiction Xinjiang, Qinghai, Gansu, Ningxia, and Shaanxi and the Ali area of northwest Tibet. The Shenyang Military region covers the Liaoning, Jilin, and Heilongiang provinces. It plays an important role in the security of Beijing as well as of the areas bordering on the Russian Far East and North Korea. The Jinan Military region covers the Shandong and Henan provinces. It is responsible for security in one of the most heavily populated and industrialised areas of China. The Guangzhou Military region covers the Guangdong, Guangxi, Hunan, Hebei and Hainan provinces. Inter alia, it is responsible for the security of Hong Kong and its Divisions are specially trained for possible military operations against Taiwan.

5. The three Regions not participating in the exercise are the Beijing, the Nanjing and the Chengdu Military Regions. The Beijing Military Region covers Beijing city, Tianjin city, the Hebei province, the Shanxi province, and the Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region. It is mainly responsible for defending China from Mongolia and Russia, and also provides security to Beijing. The Nanjing Military Region covers the Jiangsu, Zhejiang, Anhui, Fujian, and Jiangxi provinces. It is the principal Military Region responsible for operations against Taiwan in the event of a military conflct. Most of the missile units facing Taiwan are believed to be under its control. The Chengdu Military Region covers the Chongqing, Sichuan, Yunnan, Guizhou provinces and the Xizang/Tibet Autonomous Region. It is responsible for security in Tibet and for protecting the border regions with India, Nepal and Myanmar.

6. Thus while the Military Regions responsible for security in Tibet and Beijing and for military operations in Taiwan have not been disturbed during the exercise, the Military Region responsible for security in the recently-disturbed Xinjiang province gas been. One would have thought that the Chinese would be interested in testing the capacity of the newly-laid railway line to Lhasa and the road infrastructure in Tibet to support large-scale and rapid military movements. While the non-participation of the Nanjing Military Region has been seen by Chinese commentators as a confidence-building measure at a time when Beijing's relations with Taiwan are improving, no explanation has been forthcoming for the non-participation of the Chengdu Military Region. One is tempted to speculate whether this has been motivated by a desire not to cause undue alarm in India.

7. Citing the Government-controlled Xinhua news agency, the "Global Times" reported as follows: �This is the first cross-region long-range training maneuver involving troops from four military area commands,� an anonymous (unidentified) officer at the PLA Headquarters of General Staff was quoted by Xinhua as saying. �The exercise is to test the overall combat capability and long-range mobility of our army in information-based situations,� he said. According to the plan, 80 per cent of the 50,000 troops and 60,000 weapons, equipment and vehicles will be transported to the target area by railway and motorized maneuvers. Civil passenger and cargo aircraft will be deployed for the first time to transport troops and weapons. The drill marks a huge breakthrough in the history of Chinese military training, in which the armies are crossing geographical boundaries to fight in unfamiliar areas, a military specialist in Beijing surnamed Chen told the Global Times. �The capability for greater coordination, joint operations and long-range force projection will be tested,� Chen said."

8. The paper added: "Nanjing Military Area Command, one of the seven military commands in China and covering areas close to Taiwan, was not included in the drill. Military experts interpreted the absence of Nanjing Military Command as �the mainland showing goodwill to Taiwan,� Taiwan-based newspaper China Times reported. �This is a friendly gesture from the mainland toward Taiwan and shows cross-Straits relations have further eased up,� Li Daguang, a military expert from the National Defense University told the Global Times. Unlike previous military drills, this exercise has not prompted wild speculations by military watchers."

9. It further said: "Since early May, when the PLA Headquarters of the General Staff publicized the information on the planned military drill, foreign media carried factual reports on the military drill, a change from their previous critical or speculative tone. �As the Chinese army is more and more open to the outside world, the mysteries of the army will be unveiled. And there will be fewer and fewer false reports to speculate on the threatening effect of Chinese military drills,� Li said. In addition, the drill aims to test the army�s capacity to cope with large-scale natural disasters. It is not merely for military purposes, he added."

10. China will be observing in a big way the 60th anniversary of the People's Republic of China in October. One would have thought that in the weeks preceding this event they would not disturb four Divisions from their present areas of deployment so that they are available for any emergency if political, ethnic or religious dissidents try to create disturbances. It is a fact that the Chinese have been concerned over the possibility of such disturbances in Tibet and Xinjiang. Since April, they have strengthened preventive measures in those areas. These have been further strengthened in Xinjiang after the Urumqi disturbances in the first week of July. The fact that the Chinese are going ahead with this exercise involving four Divisions reflects their present confidence in their ability to deal with any disturbances that might break out even without the use of these Divisions.

11. The possibility that the long-term significance of this exercise may not be confined to only Chinese territory and may extend beyond its borders is evident from an editorial on the exercise carried by the "Global Times" on August 12 under the title "Build An Army That Suits Modern Requirement". The text of the editorial is annexed.

(The writer is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical Studies, Chennai. He is also associated with the Chennai Centre For China Studies. E-mail: [email protected])

ahmedsid · 14-08-09, 10:42 PM

Well, what if something big, like a Big uprising comes up? Who comes in? Still the cops?
And which Foreign country in SEA are you gonna face with 50K troops? I mean, I would have bought it if it was like atleast 100,000 Troops.

The only country you got serious problem is India and 50000 troops will not be sufficient when the guns start roaring!

Ray · 14-08-09, 10:42 PM

One has to observe the rapid modernisation of the Chinese defence and they have not hesitated in stealing secrets from the world over to progress her indigenous military industry.

China, while romping ahead in the economic field has not cared for the western regions of China since they are not really what they called ‘cooked barbarians’. The economic disparity between coastal and western China is worth notice.

To be a global player as China wants to establish, it must first have regional hegemony. They impediment to such a dream is India.

Therefore, if again like 1962, China can humiliate India once again, then she is on the way to challenging the US.

Therefore, it is essential that if India has some self pride, she arms to be capable of taking on China , be it in conjunction with a China Pakistan thrust or any attempt to divide India into 30 segments as the strategic paper suggested.

It is time that we quit all this Gandhigiri and get cracking with relpolitik Tibet and Xinjiang are ripe fruits!

Ray · 14-08-09, 10:43 PM

They used their Airborne Corps as per the Report.

Check what OoE said.

really?

Paratroopers to do police action?

tell it to the marines.

Flint · 14-08-09, 10:45 PM

If that's a serious question, the answer is an obvious no.

India has got far better things to do than some misadventure on the roof of the world.

Ray · 14-08-09, 10:49 PM

The exercise is double edged.

Checking reaction to external threat and also internal.

The provinces mentioned have a Muslim majority!

Pan Islamic threat has come to China after the Uighurs chickened them!

No longer are they acting smug and cute!!

Their orifice is burning!

Crisis in Tibet - Opression and Human rights violations by China

kuku

Ray

Yusuf

Ray

Yusuf

ahmedsid

macintosh

Ray

badguy2000

Daredevil

ahmedsid

Ray

Ray

Flint

Ray

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