DRDO, PSU and Private Defence Sector News

[pmaitra]

Bhadra bhai, would you be kind enough to tell us what Bharat Karnad thinks of MoD+IAF+Import lobbies on the Rafale deal.

Anyhow Bharat Karnad is right a lot of what DRDO is into should not be doing. Your own Behera whom you now want to save, also points out how in the PVNR days DRDO projects were re-investigated and reduced. Even in the Dr. Saraswat video and in the interviews of Sri Tamilmani, the need to re-focus comes out expressly and clearly. DRDO leadership knows their time is now.

You have to realise DRDO was living for last 10 years among people who had problems with even gas money for testing.

Compare that to:
1) 300+700+2300+70 Crore being released now, for just the engine designing,
2) the queries about Kaveri possibilities, by Jaitley himself, and
3) IN interest in marine and generator versions.
Sir ji, this is a new beginning. This is how nationalists work.

As you can see above anybody who supports Rafale hates DRDO. Sirf DODO hi bolna rah gaya hai, warna koi kasar nahi chodi firangion ne. Must be a reason for that utter hate. That hate itself implies how important DRDO is. So before you too end up mis-spelling it DODO, I hope you realise the success of DRDO also before you end up being an AAPtard version of Indian defence aficionados.


But what the hell is MET projectiles. Anybody please. I tried googling for nearly half an hour for it. But failed. TIA

I have to admit that I had confused Bharat Karnad with Bharat Verma. I have read quite a few articles by Bharat Karnad, and most of them are rather diabolical. I admit I have read only one article by Bharat Verma, which I have critiqued earlier in this thread.

My apologies for misleading others. It was not intentional

 

[pmaitra]

I have given only facts and not openions..

all others are self generated opinions .. though I have no objection to those.

However, bash the facts and not the person like Laxman Kumar Behera.

The problem is that DRDO's success is measured only in terms of missiles ( rightly not talking anything of ISRO) typically by people like @venkat

However, missiles are not only thing for the defence of the country. There are critical technologies identified and can any DRDO fan tell me what is the achievement on those areas. For their ease I produce a table below :

The list you presented is the answer, if someone asked Laxman Kumar Behera (or whoever is the author of the list you have presented), "What, in your opinion, are the most critical defence technologies?"

I largely agree with the list. I just wanted to point out that every person who has an opinion could come up with his own list. So, this list is still an opinion.

 

[Bhadra]

The list you presented is the answer, if someone asked Laxman Kumar Behera (or whoever is the author of the list you have presented), "What, in your opinion, are the most critical defence technologies?"

I largely agree with the list. I just wanted to point out that every person who has an opinion could come up with his own list. So, this list is still an opinion.

at the end of the list Behara did mention :
"Source: Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO)." Due to limitation of managing the height of the photo, I omitted it.

But why to bash Behara . Bash the list and suggest further addition or deletion to the list.

 

[pmaitra]

at the end of the list Behara did mention :
"Source: Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO)." Due to limitation of managing the height of the photo, I omitted it.

But why to bash Behara . Bash the list and suggest further addition or deletion to the list.

You have not provided any link in your post, so I took care to add the disclaimer, "or whoever is the author of the list you have presented," which you have duly quoted, but overlooked.

Who is bashing whom?

So this list is the opinion of DRDO?

 

[Bhadra]

For all Hemant Behra qutes please refer to :

www.idsa.in/system/files/OP_DefenceInnovationInIndia.pdf

 

[power_monger]

I will list down the chief problems of DRDO

1) Transferring R&D into production has always been a bottleneck.

DRDO has been advocating that a production agency must be guaranteed a big order, even while a weapons system is being developed. Of course, that order will be placed only if the weapon is developed successfully. But a firm order will encourage the private sector to invest and to participate in the development. It will also bring down the induction time cycle; the first prototype itself should be built by the production agency.

Why would private sector involve in product development when they know that they have to bid again when the tender for product production is called for?


2) Selection of Production partner by DRDO

DRDO is mandated to develop prototypes and then hand over to production agencies for large-scale manufacture. But a substantial amount of handholding is required in the post-development phase. DRDO would like to play a lead role in the selection of production partners and the lead integrator for production of DRDO-developed products, so as to ensure seamless transfer of technology, manufacture and product support.

But selecting your production agency gets mired in procedure. The ministry of defence (MoD) does not want to nominate a particular company...

We make the rules, don't we? Somewhere, the government has to take a decision. There are no more than 5-10 private companies are capable of participating in development and building in large numbers. They can all be asked to quote. Even nominating a particular company should not be a problem, providing you are distributing orders to all of them - one to the Tatas, one to Larsen & Toubro, etc - and you are open about it. Once these companies establish themselves, start making them compete. Then it becomes survival of the fittest.

 

[Bhadra]

OK, These are some of the areas and technologies DRDO has worked with: I do not know about the success or failures:

www.idsa.in/system/files/jds_3_3_nrkrishnan.pdf

 

[Khagesh]

Thanks for posting this. Now its beginning to become a little balanced.
se
What people just do not give credit for is the fact that an ITBP jawan has less chances of being ambushed by the Chinese today. Less chances not because that ITBP jawan has suddenly become like Captain America nor because Chinese have suddenly discovered the reasons for not taking over and pillaging other people's lands. The less chances are because a paan chewing, surti snorting, ill talking, rustic gaonwala elected to hot seat in Delhi holds his fingers an inch away from a red button. That red button was enabled by DRDO. People just exclaim in casual walk that ok, 'DRDO has done some good work in missiles but what about the rest'. Bhai jaan that missile you just brushed aside is not one off system. It is a menagerie of extra ordinary science. Thanks to availability of later day computing, DRDO has been able to cover more ground in less time then the earlier benchmarks and the story still goes on.

Like an IA man would be really pleased if DRDO can churn out multiple new designs of tanks, bridge layers and artillery instead of trudging along with just Arjun Mk-1 and Dhanush etc. This IA man would readily concede that every such new tank would be a new product, needing to meet all tests and parameters. Similarly it should not be difficult to admit that each of the several missiles DRDO has churned out are significantly different designs and require researchers to climb a new mountain, everytime. A Pritivi cannot simply be scaled up into an Agni. Nor even an Agni-2 into an Agni-IV or Agni-III. And ultimately what Agni V is capable of actually cannot be done with Agni-III. Similar is the divergence between the designs of a Nirbhay and a Brahmos. Shaurya is completely different and probably the only future direction in missilery esp. in the under 500-2000 km bracket. The bracket where CBGs, air bases and cities get targeted.

On top of that boundaries between a missile and a plane are getting redefined and getting even more exotic by the day. Some of the early cruise missile crews trained by guiding a representative aircraft with the same add-on navigation system. Ground controlling the aircraft. Something like a drone would be today, though much less complex. It is the 'reason' that these new technologies would be carrying that would convince our neighbors to be neighborly-like. Oldies would remember that during Kargil war, India readied a clutch of Prithvis and one solitary Agni. Never used, but would you doubt that the message got across to those it was meant to be delivered.

To simply brush all this away and claim that DRDO does not do much for the foot soldiers is simply a case of ignoring the most important contribution. We lost our foot soldiers to smaller countries like Pakistan when we had nothing like this and one mission to Karachi harbour convinced them for all times to come that India and Pakistan should look for economic and cultural commonality instead of styling up 600 tanks a side matches like Chawinda. At least that forced them to revise their strategy and go underground with an Insurgency operation. But sure as hell we will not see any invader make his move from the plains and deserts to our west, for next several decades if not centuries. For the new tack being tried by the foreigners too there is work going on to equip our people properly. DRDO has in the works a corner shot rifle capable of firing both 5.56 and 7.62 rounds. There is much more that can be done and that other forces actually use, but here in India nobody asks DRDO to start work on those things. Then there was the Phataka and the el-cheepo body armour that could be mass deployed. It is wrong to simply brush aside DRDO contributions by saying INSAS is getting old and does not have enough punch. Arre bhai INSAS was made that way at a time when the received wisdom was the 'army does not shoot like terrorist and needs 3 shots for a sure kill or at least a good wounding'. That received wisdom too came from the Americans. It that does not work in Kashmir then how can that be laid to rest at the doors of DRDO.

For tomorrow BMDs are in development. Does that find no application in protecting advancing troops from things like NASR or Babar. DRDO as already show how the spin offs from that very technology can give unimaginable advantages in long ranged accurate but inexpensive firepower (Prahaar). To what end is all this being done. Have yiou ever seen any DRDO person getting any kind of prize for his work. For the most part DRDO people are never known never heard. If DRDO is voluble the what is Sandia or LLNL or LM skunkworks. Their people have inside line to people where even the elected officials of USA do not and they are so loud that they are heard by elected officials of other countries too. Several seas away.

At some point we have to learn to support our people instead of feeling the pain/discomfort of others. If a country that is targeted by US nukes and yet some of its people feel they are duty bound to seek friendship of US then nothing much can be said about such people. But that cannot be allowed to affect what is being done on this land for this land.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Just updating, in time 1B1 came out to be better like any other system, All first generation system regardless the origin and country has issues ..

It is always rectified and made better to become a success, The same story goes for Improved 1b1 ..

 

[cobra commando]

NEW DELHI: India is close to finalizing another mega military project with Israel, which will further bolster the already expansive but secretive defence cooperation under way between the two countries since the 1999 Kargil conflict. Defence ministry sources on Wednesday said the contract negotiation committee had now virtually sealed the joint development of a medium-range surface-to-air missile system (MR-SAM) for the Indian Army through collaboration between DRDO and Israeli Aerospace Industries. Defence PSU Bharat Dynamics, in turn, will undertake bulk production of the systems in India. Incidentally, Israel is among the top defence suppliers to India, having already inked deals and projects worth around $10 billion over the last 15 years, which range from spy and armed drones to sophisticated missile and radar systems. During his visit to India in February, Israeli defence minister Moshe Ya'alon had even offered the advanced Iron Dome interceptor, which was used to intercept the flurry of rockets fired into his country last year, for PM Narendra Modi's Make in India policy.


Read more:
Israel will partner India to develop missile system

 

[flyingarg]

I feel PSU's are impaired by default due to the reason behind their conception. An organization whose main goal was to provide jobs and THEN make profits will falter. An organization cannot compete by just nationalist drive, which will and has faltered over the years.

I am aserting a few of these statements based on the fact that many of my family members worked in PSU's. A case was the establishment of Rourkella Steel Plant which was to be set up by HEC ranchi. Both being PSU's. Now the whole project was shipped off to LnT in the final week though HEC had all the designs and implementation projects ready. Why was this takeover possible? Many beleive it was private org bribing the contract away. But that is how businesses work. Hostile take over and cut throat business practices will always be a norm. The concept of state ownership just does not leave enough tools in the hands of PSU's to compete.

PSU's cannot do away with labour freedom. The job security and politics prevelent in PSU's just does not allow higher officials to meet targets.

Also if you think it is just the public that has a thing against PSU's you cannot be more wrong. PSU's themselves do not trust other PSU's on meeting deliveries. ISRO ended up setting most of the critical manufacturing units by themselves. So does DRDO. Heck I have been there in conversation between to designers from PSU's. The ISRO designer telling the desingner from other PSU - ' We(ISRO) do not doubt that your design for launch platform is good. But we do not know if you can deliver it on time.'

And i know most of this is my personal experience and does not qualify to much, but the problems of competitivness are systemic in PSU's. That is why the delays are so high.

 

[power_monger]

Khagesh, excellent post. Really appreciated it.........

 

[Bhadra]

Thanks for posting this. Now its beginning to become a little balanced.
se
What people just do not give credit for is the fact that an ITBP jawan has less chances of being ambushed by the Chinese today. Less chances not because that ITBP jawan has suddenly become like Captain America nor because Chinese have suddenly discovered the reasons for not taking over and pillaging other people's lands. The less chances are because a paan chewing, surti snorting, ill talking, rustic gaonwala elected to hot seat in Delhi holds his fingers an inch away from a red button. That red button was enabled by DRDO. People just exclaim in casual walk that ok, 'DRDO has done some good work in missiles but what about the rest'. Bhai jaan that missile you just brushed aside is not one off system. It is a menagerie of extra ordinary science. Thanks to availability of later day computing, DRDO has been able to cover more ground in less time then the earlier benchmarks and the story still goes on.

Very immature of you. While it is no one case that DRDO has not done any thing but to say that ITBP soldier on LAC is not being ambushed because of your missiles and bombs is being very superficial and bombastic.. There have no skirmishes on LAC after Chinese were given a befitting reply by IA at Nathula in 1967. Not a single bullet has been fired on LAC. If you think your discoveries have prevented them from doing it, you are mistaken. Where was that red button when Chinese came 21 km inside in Spangur and sat there for 24 days. Where is that red button when Pakistan almost intruded in Kargil and sat over more than 320 sq Kms of India. If this is your understanding of red button in the hands of Political masters than God save us.

Like an IA man would be really pleased if DRDO can churn out multiple new designs of tanks, bridge layers and artillery instead of trudging along with just Arjun Mk-1 and Dhanush etc. This IA man would readily concede that every such new tank would be a new product, needing to meet all tests and parameters. Similarly it should not be difficult to admit that each of the several missiles DRDO has churned out are significantly different designs and require researchers to climb a new mountain, everytime. A Pritivi cannot simply be scaled up into an Agni. Nor even an Agni-2 into an Agni-IV or Agni-III. And ultimately what Agni V is capable of actually cannot be done with Agni-III. Similar is the divergence between the designs of a Nirbhay and a Brahmos. Shaurya is completely different and probably the only future direction in missilery esp. in the under 500-2000 km bracket. The bracket where CBGs, air bases and cities get targeted.

That is the whole problem. DRDO is supposed to know and work in all gambits of defence technology which may start from protective clothing, boots, pull through, small magazines to sturdy and all cross country vehicles, metallurgy for light guns, smokeless propellants, improved explosive, modern fuzes . light weapons and equipment.underground detection, water crossing expedients, life saving equipment, batter navigation aids etc etc... but you all are never found wanting in trumpeting success in a few missiles ignoring everything else. That is what my crib is. Indian Army soldier uses first world war standard binoculars and compasses but you have not done anything nor we people feel concerned about it. You can develop inertial navigation but can not give a soldier good compass. We do not have good rifles and you want to win the war only with Agni missile as is evident from post. DRDO has created its own empire its own doctrine and own philosophy of war as amply evident from your post. That is what is dangerous for war fighting and for the country.

And what ever you have created is like Tata producing his Nano or Indica in trenches, Mark 1, Mark II, Mark -III and god knows how many marks and no Mark being successful. That is the story of Arjun as of Tejas. That is the story of Missiles too. Do not tell me what is required to be done for each. That is your problem. The problem of the country is that it wants job done and it is paying you for that. Period.

On top of that boundaries between a missile and a plane are getting redefined and getting even more exotic by the day. Some of the early cruise missile crews trained by guiding a representative aircraft with the same add-on navigation system. Ground controlling the aircraft. Something like a drone would be today, though much less complex. It is the 'reason' that these new technologies would be carrying that would convince our neighbors to be neighborly-like. Oldies would remember that during Kargil war, India readied a clutch of Prithvis and one solitary Agni. Never used, but would you doubt that the message got across to those it was meant to be delivered.

You mean to say DRDO is the only organisation in the world facing scientific and technical challenges? For others the technology and science comes from heaven? How come others do it better than you. in stead of thinking over that you are posing questions as if the members here are illiterates. A typical scientists misconception.

[/quote] To simply brush all this away and claim that DRDO does not do much for the foot soldiers is simply a case of ignoring the most important contribution. We lost our foot soldiers to smaller countries like Pakistan when we had nothing like this and one mission to Karachi harbour convinced them for all times to come that India and Pakistan should look for economic and cultural commonality instead of styling up 600 tanks a side matches like Chawinda. At least that forced them to revise their strategy and go underground with an Insurgency operation. But sure as hell we will not see any invader make his move from the plains and deserts to our west, for next several decades if not centuries. For the new tack being tried by the foreigners too there is work going on to equip our people properly. [/quote]

Pray tell me what have you done for that for soldier - made Agni. So withdraw that ITBP soldier from the Chines border and disband the Army foot soldiers and tank battalions. Is that your understanding of defence preparedness of the country? If there is not going to be a war than resign and go home or work for some private firm. Do not waste your time.

DRDO has in the works a corner shot rifle capable of firing both 5.56 and 7.62 rounds. There is much more that can be done and that other forces actually use, but here in India nobody asks DRDO to start work on those things.

Ha Ha Ha .... is that DRDO invention ?? Cutting corners even in discussion !!

Then there was the Phataka and the el-cheepo body armour that could be mass deployed. It is wrong to simply brush aside DRDO contributions by saying INSAS is getting old and does not have enough punch. Arre bhai INSAS was made that way at a time when the received wisdom was the 'army does not shoot like terrorist and needs 3 shots for a sure kill or at least a good wounding'. That received wisdom too came from the Americans. It that does not work in Kashmir then how can that be laid to rest at the doors of DRDO.

INSAS was not designed for Kashmir CI or other CI Operation that is what Army also says but then did IA invent Kashmir, Punjab, Assam Or Naxal problems? There is a situation and provide a technological solution to it rather than giving escapist and futile logic leaving the soldier on ground to fend for himself. If I am fighting CI operations give me wherewithal for it. Simple. If you can not provide what the forces want, just lay off.

For tomorrow BMDs are in development. Does that find no application in protecting advancing troops from things like NASR or Babar. DRDO as already show how the spin offs from that very technology can give unimaginable advantages in long ranged accurate but inexpensive firepower (Prahaar). To what end is all this being done. Have yiou ever seen any DRDO person getting any kind of prize for his work. For the most part DRDO people are never known never heard. If DRDO is voluble the what is Sandia or LLNL or LM skunkworks. Their people have inside line to people where even the elected officials of USA do not and they are so loud that they are heard by elected officials of other countries too. Several seas away.

Rants and unnecessary rants. Doctrine for war fighting is not a domain of technology. This is India and every one has to fit into the framework of "desh Kaal and paatra".. you understand that since you use a lot of Hindi.. every thing must fit into the context and time.

[/quote]At some point we have to learn to support our people instead of feeling the pain/discomfort of others. If a country that is targeted by US nukes and yet some of its people feel they are duty bound to seek friendship of US then nothing much can be said about such people. But that cannot be allowed to affect what is being done on this land for this land.[/quote]

We all are getting paid and we are not running a philanthropic patriotic society and you have a mission, objective and goals. You have to meet those rather than deciding what is good and what is bad for the forces or the country. First do your work and then pontificate.

Let us discuss on facts rather than opinions and impressions which can be dangerously misleading.

 

[Ancient Indian]

Very immature of you. While it is no one case that DRDO has not done any thing but to say that ITBP soldier on LAC is not being ambushed because of your missiles and bombs is being very superficial and bombastic.. There have no skirmishes on LAC after Chinese were given a befitting reply by IA at Nathula in 1967. Not a single bullet has been fired on LAC. If you think your discoveries have prevented them from doing it, you are mistaken. Where was that red button when Chinese came 21 km inside in Spangur and sat there for 24 days. Where is that red button when Pakistan almost intruded in Kargil and sat over more than 320 sq Kms of India. If this is your understanding of red button in the hands of Political masters than God save us.



That is the whole problem. DRDO is supposed to know and work in all gambits of defence technology which may start from protective clothing, boots, pull through, small magazines to sturdy and all cross country vehicles, metallurgy for light guns, smokeless propellants, improved explosive, modern fuzes . light weapons and equipment.underground detection, water crossing expedients, life saving equipment, batter navigation aids etc etc... but you all are never found wanting in trumpeting success in a few missiles ignoring everything else. That is what my crib is. Indian Army soldier uses first world war standard binoculars and compasses but you have not done anything nor we people feel concerned about it. You can develop inertial navigation but can not give a soldier good compass. We do not have good rifles and you want to win the war only with Agni missile as is evident from post. DRDO has created its own empire its own doctrine and own philosophy of war as amply evident from your post. That is what is dangerous for war fighting and for the country.

And what ever you have created is like Tata producing his Nano or Indica in trenches, Mark 1, Mark II, Mark -III and god knows how many marks and no Mark being successful. That is the story of Arjun as of Tejas. That is the story of Missiles too. Do not tell me what is required to be done for each. That is your problem. The problem of the country is that it wants job done and it is paying you for that. Period.



You mean to say DRDO is the only organisation in the world facing scientific and technical challenges? For others the technology and science comes from heaven? How come others do it better than you. in stead of thinking over that you are posing questions as if the members here are illiterates. A typical scientists misconception.

To simply brush all this away and claim that DRDO does not do much for the foot soldiers is simply a case of ignoring the most important contribution. We lost our foot soldiers to smaller countries like Pakistan when we had nothing like this and one mission to Karachi harbour convinced them for all times to come that India and Pakistan should look for economic and cultural commonality instead of styling up 600 tanks a side matches like Chawinda. At least that forced them to revise their strategy and go underground with an Insurgency operation. But sure as hell we will not see any invader make his move from the plains and deserts to our west, for next several decades if not centuries. For the new tack being tried by the foreigners too there is work going on to equip our people properly.

Pray tell me what have you done for that for soldier - made Agni. So withdraw that ITBP soldier from the Chines border and disband the Army foot soldiers and tank battalions. Is that your understanding of defence preparedness of the country? If there is not going to be a war than resign and go home or work for some private firm. Do not waste your time.



Ha Ha Ha .... is that DRDO invention ?? Cutting corners even in discussion !!




INSAS was not designed for Kashmir CI or other CI Operation that is what Army also says but then did IA invent Kashmir, Punjab, Assam Or Naxal problems? There is a situation and provide a technological solution to it rather than giving escapist and futile logic leaving the soldier on ground to fend for himself. If I am fighting CI operations give me wherewithal for it. Simple. If you can not provide what the forces want, just lay off.



Rants and unnecessary rants. Doctrine for war fighting is not a domain of technology. This is India and every one has to fit into the framework of "desh Kaal and paatra".. you understand that since you use a lot of Hindi.. every thing must fit into the context and time.

At some point we have to learn to support our people instead of feeling the pain/discomfort of others. If a country that is targeted by US nukes and yet some of its people feel they are duty bound to seek friendship of US then nothing much can be said about such people. But that cannot be allowed to affect what is being done on this land for this land.

We all are getting paid and we are not running a philanthropic patriotic society and you have a mission, objective and goals. You have to meet those rather than deciding what is good and what is bad for the forces or the country. First do your work and then pontificate.

Let us discuss on facts rather than opinions and impressions which can be dangerously misleading.

I blame IT industry for this problem.

You know suddenly the civilians became experts in all arts but the guys working on the field knows next to nothing about the tech.
But one thing for sure, I will get big headache If I follow you guys posts.

Can't you guys analyze thing in some good manner ?

People are living in dream land. I am now officially accepting that Indians need good lessons in lot of fields.

May be you guys can tune you posts right and post them in meaningful way.

 

[Bhadra]

There were a lot of red buttons near the fingers of the leaders of Soviet union but did that prevent dissolution of Soviet Union?

Did the super atomic power stop the Cave dwelling Al Qaida from doing what they did ? Tell me where did the USA drop their nuclear bombs?

To say that it is because of DRDO that Pakistan dare not do anything (though they did it in 1999, they did at Parliament and they did it at Bombay) is just childish and deliberately misleading.

To try to convey that the national security is in the hands of DRDO is to insult millions standing guard, millions behind the scene and millions toiling day and night to ensure that we guys get paid !

Yes, you are part of us . Not our masters.

Some people in India also talk like Pakistanis, I never knew.

 

[power_monger]

Some people in India also talk like Pakistanis, I never knew.

Congrats Bhadra,DRDO developed Astra AAM missile finished its 8th sucessfull trial today and we are in verge of inducting a world class Air to air missile pretty soon.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Almost all the things you talked about in bold are actually in use and better than many countries are using including US in-terms of Light guns, Again a lot of false baseless arguments you are speaking blindly, Sound as rant !

Try best not to provoke others by calling them immature or anything else, Last i remember you consider this as an insult if used against you ..

Very immature of you.

That is the whole problem. DRDO is supposed to know and work in all gambits of defence technology which may start from protective clothing, boots, pull through, small magazines to sturdy and all cross country vehicles, metallurgy for light guns, smokeless propellants, improved explosive, modern fuzes . light weapons and equipment.underground detection, water crossing expedients, life saving equipment, batter navigation aids etc etc... but you all are never found wanting in trumpeting success in a few missiles ignoring everything else. That is what my crib is. Indian Army soldier uses first world war standard binoculars and compasses but you have not done anything nor we people feel concerned about it. You can develop inertial navigation but can not give a soldier good compass. We do not have good rifles and you want to win the war only with Agni missile as is evident from post. DRDO has created its own empire its own doctrine and own philosophy of war as amply evident from your post. That is what is dangerous for war fighting and for the country.

And what ever you have created is like Tata producing his Nano or Indica in trenches, Mark 1, Mark II, Mark -III and god knows how many marks and no Mark being successful. That is the story of Arjun as of Tejas. That is the story of Missiles too. Do not tell me what is required to be done for each. That is your problem. The problem of the country is that it wants job done and it is paying you for that. Period.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The joint trails are example of forgin influence in Military, Arjun which was made by third world Indians destroyed T-90s of very high class Russians technology, Now its DRDO fixing T-90 to be as par with Arjuns ..

The MK1, MK2 are not meant to produce just a product but establishing a eco - system which can research and produce product of its own needs without outside influence and dependency, DRDO is that answer and they are doing their work as good as they can or could under a Government which hated its own ..

People who are used to Screw driver technology and lack foresight, It is a inherited problem of colonial times and mind set..

Least said is better ..

 

[power_monger]

People who are used to Screw driver technology and lack foresight, It is a inherited problem of colonial times and mind set..

Least said is better ..

Well said sir.What i do not understand is,why so much pessimism when in recent few years DRDO has improved a lot and we are hearing lot of good news on various weapons and many of them are in verge of induction.

I do not understand all this DRDO bashing,when we do not have any other equivalent alternative of it in india. Somehow it looks like vested intrest when one tends to continously ignore the positives and bash a organisation finding its negatives.

 

[Khagesh]

Bhadra, your unstoppable force has just hit its immovable object.

But before I write further can you stop teasing me as part of DRDO who is against IA? I am merely a fanboy of DRDO and my target is not the Indian Army, in any of its roles.

Regards:

While it is no one case that DRDO has not done any thing but to say that ITBP soldier on LAC is not being ambushed because of your missiles and bombs is being very superficial and bombastic.. There have no skirmishes on LAC after Chinese were given a befitting reply by IA at Nathula in 1967. Not a single bullet has been fired on LAC. If you think your discoveries have prevented them from doing it, you are mistaken.
<snip>
Pray tell me what have you done for that for soldier - made Agni. So withdraw that ITBP soldier from the Chines border and disband the Army foot soldiers and tank battalions.

The death of ambivalence post-62 is a good reason for chinese rationality and Nathu-la and Agni both figure in that reason. When I mentioned ITBP jawan, it is figurative only, the first point of contact. Since he is the first guy who will die before death visits us Indians, even in a war that ultimately turns nuclear. That ITBP Jawan essentially stands in, in that write up, for all of us. Ultimately it is the nations that go to war and the results impact the whole nation - physically or psychologically.

In that context, had any of the several countries that US has destablized and invaded, had some nukes and missiles to lob those nukes, they would have enabled US to discover the virtues of peace as convincingly as US has discovered it in Ukraine today and NoKo yesterday.

Had we Indians too had that kind of capacity in 71, there would have been no genocide in East Pakistan either.

Vietnam fought one ex-super power, one extant super power and one future super power and a bunch of insurgencies to keep itself free. They succeeded but at a terrible loss to the own civilian populations and peasant army. Had the Viets had some nukes and ballistic missiles the question of any war in Indo-china would never have arisen.

Same is the case with Syria actually. Had the Syrians not remained content with chemicals and developed the nukes and ICBMs, even started to develop them, they would not have lost their country. Instead the world would have treated Syria at the same level as Iran and would have negotiated a civil-nuclear deal with Syria.

What you are fixating on is what happens after an entity like US loses interest in a war. I admit DRDO has no capability or even a role in COIN, social subversion, economic blockade and a general anti-national cartelization. DRDO is just a development organization interested in just so much research as is needed to develop what it is mandated to develop. In this, it is but logical that a person or organization will be able to develop only as much as is its capability. Holds true for DRDO too. Rest all obviously has to be imported. So say for example DRDO is incapable of developing compasses or COIN gear then obviously we import that. And that India already does for IA. Nobody can begrudge them that.

Regards your claim that :

DRDO is supposed to know and work in all gambits of defence technology which may start from protective clothing, boots, pull through, small magazines to sturdy and all cross country vehicles, metallurgy for light guns, smokeless propellants, improved explosive, modern fuzes . light weapons and equipment.underground detection, water crossing expedients, life saving equipment, batter navigation aids etc etc..

Again I differ. Sir, supposed-waposed ko kinare kariye aur bataiye ke reasonably kya kiya ja sakta hai ya hona chahiye.

Some of these illustrative examples you quote are already being done in India. If you feel that they were not done fast enough, then I hope you find solace in knowing that these things will be required in future too and DRDO products at that time will be used to replace imports. Equally importantly most of these are the kind for which the private industry can easily be employed. Even if the private sector cannot yet do these things still a lot of it should never be in the DRDO basket. Rather I would question, what were the circumstances that put us in a situation that Private sector cannot do these things.

As I read you it seems like your working presumption centers around the 'big-impersonal-strategic war is different from the small-personal-tactical war'. And DRDO should prioritize the later over the former.

IMO, DRDO should ideally be working on developing those engineering items, that cannot otherwise be made or will be denied or will help rationalize employment of major resources. You really cannot expect 7500 people of whom only 10% are Phds to have their scant efforts, dissipated in thin air.

You have a point in mismanagement inside DRDO. I don't contest that. DRDO can certainly do much better even as a aggregate of govt. sector entities.

Regards your comment:

Where was that red button when Chinese came 21 km inside in Spangur and sat there for 24 days. Where is that red button when Pakistan almost intruded in Kargil and sat over more than 320 sq Kms of India. If this is your understanding of red button in the hands of Political masters than God save us.

Sir ji, you are deliberately missing out parts of our history where the intrusion was much more than just 24 km. And for a country that is in the habit of trying to 'embarrass' visiting dignatories they did not seem particularly intent on repetition when Modi just recently visited them. Coincidentally again, its a point that was brought to the notice of an Aaj Tak sponsored media-do by Amit Shah today.


Also can I ask you something - why are you so afraid of opinions. You have them you speak out. Where is the problem.