BrahMos Cruise Missile

[ice berg]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Does not look like it,
DSEi 2011 - Perseus: MBDA's missile of the future?

Perseus to be developed over 15 to 20 years. 300Km range, 200Kg warhead, Mach 3, same as Brahmos.

Long Range Anti-Ship Missile (LRASM)


So, both the British and the Americans are planning on supersonic cruise missiles.

There are more to a missile than payload and ranges. propulsion and guidance matter too.

We have two programs. One is the hypersonic Brahmos, the other is DRDO's HSTDV which is a tech demonstrator.

Under Brahmos there may be two variants, one as a hypersonic cruise missile with 290Km range and another as a UCAV that can deliver it's warhead at hypersonic speeds and return to base. The UCAV variant may happen at a later date though.

Outside of Russia (and to India's advantage) nobody seems to be planning a hypersonic aircraft or missile for military application in the near future. Chinese plans, I don't know. I won't expect it to beat the Brahmos II timeframe though, let alone the Russian hypersonic missile program.

I have already provided a link about how US and China are also conducting hypersonic researches. Therefore it is rather strange that you are keep saying nobody seems to be interested aside from Russia and India.
If anything US is probably ahead of anyone.
Timeframes means nothing. At least based on past track records. For the time been I will rate US/Russia ahead in the race with India and China distant behind.

 

[ice berg]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Air-Sol Moyenne Portée - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaBtw the west is not unfamiliar with supersonic missiles.

An advanced version known as ASMP-A has a range of about 500 km at a speed of up to Mach 3 with the new TNA (tête nucléaire aéroportée) 300kt thermonuclear warhead. It entered service in October 2009 with the Mirage 2000NK3 of squadron EC 3/4 at Istres and on July 2010 with the Rafales of squadron EC 1/91 at Saint Dizier.[1]

Dont underestimate them just yet.

 

[p2prada]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

I have already provided a link about how US and China are also conducting hypersonic researches. Therefore it is rather strange that you are keep saying nobody seems to be interested aside from Russia and India.

If anything US is probably ahead of anyone.

I am not saying nobody is interested in hypersonic technologies. What I am saying is nobody except Russia/India have plans of weaponizing it within this decade.

The X-51 is also a tech demonstrator like what's being planned for HSTDV. That's why the X designation which means Experimental or the TD designation in HSTDV.

Brahmos II is meant to be a usable hypersonic weapon and is for obvious reasons not cleared for export and will not be cleared for export for a long time. The Americans do not yet have a plan for making a usable hypersonic weapon. Nobody else has the relevant technology anyway.

Timeframes means nothing. At least based on past track records. For the time been I will rate US/Russia ahead in the race with India and China distant behind.

TImeframes mean everything because a successful product now would mean better stuff at a sooner date compared to the competition. India is behind in a lot of technologies. But our JVs with Russia and Israel help tide over such problems while spending only 50% of the cash required without having to undergo a protracted development period if we go it alone.

If we start on scramjet alone now, we will get a working system only 30 years later. JV with Russia would mean they did the hard part, we reap the benefits. So, we pay a bit more and get the same technology 30 years earlier. Later on we can develop a better version on our own because of the major technological input we had in the first project.

 

[ice berg]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

I am not saying nobody is interested in hypersonic technologies. What I am saying is nobody except Russia/India have plans of weaponizing it within this decade.

The X-51 is also a tech demonstrator like what's being planned for HSTDV. That's why the X designation which means Experimental or the TD designation in HSTDV.

Brahmos II is meant to be a usable hypersonic weapon and is for obvious reasons not cleared for export and will not be cleared for export for a long time. The Americans do not yet have a plan for making a usable hypersonic weapon. Nobody else has the relevant technology anyway.



TImeframes mean everything because a successful product now would mean better stuff at a sooner date compared to the competition. India is behind in a lot of technologies. But our JVs with Russia and Israel help tide over such problems while spending only 50% of the cash required without having to undergo a protracted development period if we go it alone.

If we start on scramjet alone now, we will get a working system only 30 years later. JV with Russia would mean they did the hard part, we reap the benefits. So, we pay a bit more and get the same technology 30 years earlier. Later on we can develop a better version on our own because of the major technological input we had in the first project.

I am not aware of any Indian-Israel-Russia JV on this. Links?
I stand by what I said about timeframe. To make a timeframe is easy. To actually achieve it is something else.
I strongly disagree that only India/Russia have plans of plans of weaponizing it. They are just the ones going out publicly with it.

I have an open mind on this issue. Let us wait and see.

 

[hit&run]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Open mind ?

If Chinese are doing then they are ahead of all and Americans are sh1t. If Indians are doing then they can't be ahead of anyone heck Americans are best in every game.

 

[The Fox]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

As someone has already pointed out. The west is going for hypersonic missiles. Obviously they have the means to have supersonic missiles. A major difference between supersonic and hypersonic.

There are quite a few countries doing hypersonic researches:

Despite the August 14 failure, the race for hypersonic cruise vehicle (HCV) capability between the US, China, and Russia is still on, with India piggybacking on Russian effor.For a number of years now, the three countries have made major advances in the development of air vehicles that can be maneuvered at speeds beyond Mach 5 (6,125kph).
For their part the Chinese have reportedly showed significant interest in HCV technology, with research and development work occurring at a number of centers, including the Qian Xuesen National Engineering Science Experiment Base in Beijing's Huairou district. News emerged in 2007 — three years after the launch of the X-51A program — that Chinese scientists were planning to test scramjet models capable of reaching Mach 5.6 speed at a new wind tunnel in Beijing. According to Chinese media earlier this year, Chinese scientists may also have built a wind tunnel capable of testing supersonic devices at Mach 9.

Russia, China, and America's Hypersonic Missile Race - Flashpoints


What I dont understand is why India dont work with Russians on this. Same way as Brahmos. Surely it is better to have one instead of two programs.

no doubt that india piggybacked russia on this but u guys out rightly steal the technology from Russia and USA......

 

[Patriot]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Open mind ?

If Chinese are doing then they are ahead of all and Americans are sh1t. If Indians are doing then they can't be ahead of anyone heck Americans are best in every game.

Comments from Chinese members reminds me of Rajnikant.

 

[Singh]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

no doubt that india piggybacked russia on this but u guys out rightly steal the technology from Russia and USA......

Nothing wrong with either, as long as you are getting what you want.

 

[p2prada]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

I am not aware of any Indian-Israel-Russia JV on this. Links?

It isn't a India-Russia-Israel JV. Such a thing does not exist. You misread. We have a JV with Russia for Brahmos and a contract with Israel to work on hypersonic testing at their facilities in Israel.

I stand by what I said about timeframe. To make a timeframe is easy. To actually achieve it is something else.

Ok. That's cute, but we already have development plans for weaponizing hypersonic vehicles. This may include a UCAV too. A lot of aspects would have already been demonstrated and validated before announcement of the project. Brahmos II has been in the design phase since a year now.

I strongly disagree that only India/Russia have plans of plans of weaponizing it. They are just the ones going out publicly with it.

If anybody has plans for such a thing they would come out and say it. Don't compare China's secretive nature to other countries. In fact it is very difficult for democracies to keep hiding information, one of the reasons why the F-117A came out in the open prematurely.

This is a hypersonic missile TD called GELA developed by Raduga and was flight tested back in 1993.

A lot of the so called TDs that we read about, including the French LEA are fired from bombers at supersonic speeds. Nobody to date has plans for a self sustaining weaponized form of this technology..

I will reiterate again. There is no planned equivalent to Brahmos II or the Russian LRCM being conceived within the same timeframe. By the time others initiate plans for weaponization we would have already moved ahead with more advanced forms of the same.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

India has 4 hypersonic platforms :

HSDTV
RLV
Bramos 2 (Brahmos UCAV??)
Shaurya- being inducted soon naval versions in the K series in the future.

RLV has been tested successfully

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/strategic-forces/155-hypersonic-vehicles-scramjets.html

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Same navigation sub system can be used for this system too, It will increase its accuracy and perhaps range..

Shaurya- being inducted soon naval versions in the K series in the future.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/strategic-forces/155-hypersonic-vehicles-scramjets.html

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Same navigation sub system can be used for this system too, It will increase its accuracy and perhaps range..

The K series missiles will be bigger and longer range missiles than Shaurya.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

The K series missiles will be bigger and longer range missiles than Shaurya.

They will be BM then, Sir, Where Shaurya is a system in between and can be used for tactical purpose where Agni can be used for strategic reasons..

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

They will be BM then, Sir, Where Shaurya is a system in between and can be used for tactical purpose where Agni can be used for strategic reasons..

In many ways shaurya is a more flexible missile than Agni. IMO it fills the gap between
Brahmos and Agni in range and lethality. Shaurya is cannisterized and solid fuelled so it
can be stored indefinetly. It can be transported easily and placed in silos. It is low flying
and evades detection it's nuclear capable. It reaches a speed of MACH 7 and the CEP is
excellent for it's range CEP is 20-30 over 700km, IMO this missile is a lot better than
Brahmos the main reason being it is indigenous.

 

[The Fox]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Nothing wrong with either, as long as you are getting what you want.

i complete agree with u but u cant say there is dirt in my hand unless ur hand is clean of dirt first...........

 

[p2prada]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

India has 4 hypersonic platforms :

HSDTV
RLV
Bramos 2 (Brahmos UCAV??)
Shaurya- being inducted soon naval versions in the K series in the future.

RLV has been tested successfully

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/strategic-forces/155-hypersonic-vehicles-scramjets.html

RLV is not a military weapon. Btw, it has not been built to date. Currently the plan is to build a 3 tonne RLV-TD to validate the technology in flight tests before commencing building the full scale 25 tonne version.

Shaurya is not based on SCRAMJET like RLV, HSTDV and Brahmos II. It is not difficult to build as compared to the other three.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Yes Sir, Shaurya can boost it range more than 700km if its guidance is improved just like this PJ-10 case, May be just like 1000kms..

Nirbhay and Shaurya ( Probably ) will enhance IA tactical capability..

It reaches a speed of MACH 7 and the CEP is excellent for it's range CEP is 20-30 over 700km, IMO this missile is a lot better than
Brahmos the main reason being it is indigenous.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

RLV is not a military weapon. Btw, it has not been built to date. Currently the plan is to build a 3 tonne RLV-TD to validate the technology in flight tests before commencing building the full scale 25 tonne version.

Shaurya is not based on SCRAMJET like RLV, HSTDV and Brahmos II. It is not difficult to build as compared to the other three.

Correction RLV is in development and not yet tested. I confused it with advanced sounding rocket.
which has been tested successfully . So this could be a fifth platform.

India tests advanced sounding rocket successfully

India tests advanced sounding rocket successfully

Bangalore: India successfully conducted the flight test of its new generation high-performance sounding rocket from the spaceport at Sriharikota in Andhra Pradesh, the space agency said Thursday.
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"The test was successfully conducted Wednesday at the Satish Dhawan Space Centre at Sriharikota, about 80 km north-east of Chennai," the state-run Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) said in a statement here.

Weighing three tonnes at lift-off, the advanced sounding rocket is the heaviest developed by the Indian space agency, carrying a scramjet engine combustor module to demonstrate air-breathing propulsion technology.

"During the flight, the rocket remained for seven seconds in the desired conditions of Mach number (6+0.5) and dynamic pressure (80+35 kPa). These conditions are required for a stable ignition of active scramjet engine combustor module planned in the next advanced technology vehicle flight," the statement noted.

A sounding rocket carries an instrument to take measurements and performs scientific experiments during its sub-orbital flight. It is used to take readings in space at a distance of 50-1,500 km above the surface of the earth where weather balloons float and satellites orbit.

A scramjet (supersonic combustion ramjet) consists of a constricted tube through which inlet air is compressed by the high speed of the vehicle, a combustion chamber where fuel is combusted, and a nozzle through which the exhaust jet leaves at higher speed than the inlet air.

Jet engines use a compressor to squeeze air into the engine, then spray fuel into the compressed air and ignite it to produce thrust by funnelling it through the back.

IANS

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Shaurya is not based on SCRAMJET like RLV, HSTDV and Brahmos II. It is not difficult to build as compared to the other three.

Add the advanced sounding rocket as the 4th platform using Scramjets. Shaurya is not a scramjet
but it is a hypersonic platform.

 

[p2prada]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Air-Sol Moyenne Portée - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaBtw the west is not unfamiliar with supersonic missiles.

An advanced version known as ASMP-A has a range of about 500 km at a speed of up to Mach 3 with the new TNA (tête nucléaire aéroportée) 300kt thermonuclear warhead. It entered service in October 2009 with the Mirage 2000NK3 of squadron EC 3/4 at Istres and on July 2010 with the Rafales of squadron EC 1/91 at Saint Dizier.[1]

Dont underestimate them just yet.

Yes. I am aware of the ASMP. But it has been built for an entirely different purpose. It is a last resort weapon meant for delivering nuclear strikes.

Brahmos's primary role is entirely different and follows an entirely different principle using sea skimming and high altitude flight paths.

The west has never been unfamiliar with RAMJET and ASMP only shows that even they are building their RAMJET systems only now. Like I claimed before, even the west is moving towards a combination of supersonic and subsonic systems. Hypersonic may not yet be within reach for these countries as of today.