BrahMos Cruise Missile

[sayareakd]

re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Ram jet technology in India is very old, Akash is one example of it..

Kunal sir, P2P was not aware of this part, or else he would't have said we had almost zero experience.

 

[nrj]

re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

If this is a new variant, I am curious to know hardware dimensions.

Brahmos needs platform flexibility rather than incremental range. It is a deal breaker when it comes to future orders.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

we don't have to worry about range because we always have SHAURYA a bigger faster
and longer range missile than Brahmos. This development makes me think India might
have a new development in the works and Russians are scaird of losing orders for Brahmos?

 

[The Messiah]

re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

It was always more than 300km unofficially.

We aren't actually idiots to limit our capability.

 

[p2prada]

re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Kunal sir, P2P was not aware of this part, or else he would't have said we had almost zero experience.

Ok. I stand corrected on this. We had some level of technology. But the technology input that came from Brahmos is something that we couldn't have built on our own in the same time frame. We had nothing on it.

Solid fueled RAMJET is relatively very simple technology. Akash engine is simply a tube with a fuel cast in it.

Liquid fuel allows a wide array of speeds and altitudes along with the ability to throttle, even though it is a very complex design. Solid fuel does not have such an advantage. Some BVR missiles like FMRAAM also came with Liquid fuel. Liquid fuel requires fuel lines, pumps and injectors which increase complexity. It was in effect a new engine.

Nevertheless it is technology no other nation would have provided, let alone Russia.

 

[hit&run]

re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Why Indians are more worried about MRTC ? Our immediate enemies have no face to tell us morality on this and there is no other nation who in breach of such treaty will pose an enemy of us. So take a break on this and let us dig more on its sync with Russian navigational satellites and extended range.

One question I would like to know that Indian satellite systems have comprehensive coverage of subcontinent, IOR and bit beyond and we have been using them for our BMs why we are not using them for guidance of Brahmos in particular.

 

[sayareakd]

re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Ok. I stand corrected on this. We had some level of technology. But the technology input that came from Brahmos is something that we couldn't have built on our own in the same time frame. We had nothing on it.

Solid fueled RAMJET is relatively very simple technology. Akash engine is simply a tube with a fuel cast in it.

Liquid fuel allows a wide array of speeds and altitudes along with the ability to throttle, even though it is a very complex design. Solid fuel does not have such an advantage. Some BVR missiles like FMRAAM also came with Liquid fuel. Liquid fuel requires fuel lines, pumps and injectors which increase complexity. It was in effect a new engine.

Nevertheless it is technology no other nation would have provided, let alone Russia.

i was expecting more like Akash is simple tech since it is used for SAM and its range is not that great, therefore it is more or less out of our reach, if you compare it with Brahmos type of missile................ but your reply is almost on expected line to defend what you want to say w.r.t Brahmos, you can be good lawyer, with never say die attitude. :taunt1:

about the bold part, i am sure guys who have made Akash would beg to differ with you. You have no idea what it means to have constant speed with Akash, more speed and you will over shoot target and less speed and you will undershoot, therefore they have to go at constant speed. We have master Akash and it is good system.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

S-300 violates MCTR but you never hear anything about it.

we don't s300 its just speculations.

@topic

brahmos range is said to be more than 600 km.

 

[sayareakd]

re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

we don't s300 its just speculations.

tell that to member who has saw it.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

tell that to member who has saw it.

are you referring the system similar to s300 , which is seen on public road?

 

[Bheeshma]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Leave the S-300 discussion out of this. I am eagerly awaiting Nirbay, K-X and PDV tests.

 

[p2prada]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

i was expecting more like Akash is simple tech since it is used for SAM and its range is not that great, therefore it is more or less out of our reach, if you compare it with Brahmos type of missile................ but your reply is almost on expected line to defend what you want to say w.r.t Brahmos, you can be good lawyer, with never say die attitude. :taunt1:

about the bold part, i am sure guys who have made Akash would beg to differ with you. You have no idea what it means to have constant speed with Akash, more speed and you will over shoot target and less speed and you will undershoot, therefore they have to go at constant speed. We have master Akash and it is good system.

In terms of technology that goes on the missile, the SA-6 is actually more advanced in some parameters like the Semi active seeker while the Akash has a more advanced ground support system while keeping the missile itself simple and cheap. However the Akash missile is still in the 60s level when it comes to performance. The Mk2 will better it slightly.

Akash is the Indian version of the SA-6.

Speed is relative to how the target maneuvers. There is no fixed speed. No doubt Akash is a good system, but no need to bring it's technology level to that of the Brahmos. Brahmos's propulsion system is 15-20 years ahead of what's on the Akash.

It has nothing to do with range or size. It is solid vs liquid. It is a fact that a solid fueled RAMJET is a simple technology. Comparatively a liquid fueled RAMJET is far more complex for the reasons I stated, fuel pumps, injection, throttle capability etc. Brahmos as a LACM and AShM adds to the complexity due to the multiple roles it can perform.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Ramjets are not the rage anymore we will be moving on to scramjets in the next few years.
I wonder what impact this has on the development of Brahmos 2? Hopefully it will also be
more than 300km?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Lenta.ru: Оружие: Российско-индийская сверхзвуковая ракета стала почти стратегической Another source google translated

Russian-Indian supersonic missile was almost strategic

India has tested the modified supersonic cruise anti-ship missile "Brahmos", the newspaper "Izvestia". Unlike the base case "BrahMos" guidance system is used in the Russian strategic missiles X-101 and X-555. Updated test rocket developed jointly by Russia and India, have been found to be successful.
The guidance system of the X-101 and X-555 to the "BrahMos" duplicates already installed on the missile inertial-Doppler, and the correction is now manufactured and GPS-GLONASS signal. Thanks to this revision could significantly improve the accuracy of a cruise missile. The source said the newspaper, as a result of completion "Brahmos" now surpasses class short-range missiles, but a few did not quite live up to the strategic class.

Strategic missiles X-101 and X-555 are part of the inventory of the Russian long-range bombers, missile carriers Tu-95MS and Tu-160. X-101 is capable of hitting targets at a distance of 5.5 thousand kilometers with a nuclear warhead weight of 400 kilograms. For X-555, the figures are two thousand kilometers and 410 pounds respectively. X-555 and X-101 is capable of speeds up to 920 and 970 kilometers per hour, respectively.

According to preliminary estimates, the updated "BrahMos" get up for service in India in 2013. First of all, it will join the range of weapons of Su-30MKI. "BrahMos" can carry different types of payload, including a nuclear warhead. Thus, some of the Su-30MKI Indian Air Force will receive the status of strategic aircraft.

At the core of the supersonic missile "Brahmos" is a Russian missile "Yakhont". Russian-Indian missile is capable of a speed exceeding the speed of sound at 2.5-2.8 times and hit targets at ranges of up to 500 kilometers (according to other sources - no more than 300 kilometers). It is widely used stealth technology. "BrahMos" is created in three main variants for land, sea or air.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

off topic

we don't s300 its just speculations.

.

 

[Defcon 1]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Not every country have the capability to make such sophisticated Missiles and those who does dont have such good relations with Russia or other, PJ-10 is a Indian - Russian System and so it have this capability..

Your premise is flawed. NATO has allies like Australia, SK, Canada who don't have such missiles even though they have good relations with the US.

All in all, I believe the mods should have waited for an Indian source to cover this news as well before starting a new thread on this.

 

[Defcon 1]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Both of these systems are missiles that have a range beyond 300km. It can be argued
that they are defensive in nature so no violation or the superpowers are selling them so
it is ok?

MTCR was made to stop proliferation of nuclear capable weapons. S300 is not nuclear capable.

The range of Brahmos was always in 500 km ball park. Now they are just revealing its true nature. The onyx and Brahmos are both based on Granit (P-700) which had a range of 550-650 km. Yes Granit was a lot bigger (10 m and 7 tonnes) but it was a missile of the 80's. The air launched version will have similar range but what we need besides Brahmos-2 hypersonic is a Brahmos-lite (1.2-1.5 tonne) supersonic air launched missile (200 km range) for Mig-29's/Mirage and LCA.

MTCR..what rubbish. Where was it when trident was sold to UK. When china supplied missiles and nukes to paki-s and noko's?

MTCR restrictions are not applicable to transfer of missiles within the members of MTCR. So, the trident deal is legal. China supplies missiles to pakistan illegaly. Also, China isn't a member of MTCR.

 

[sayareakd]

MTCR restrictions are not applicable to transfer of missiles within the members of MTCR. So, the trident deal is legal. China supplies missiles to pakistan illegaly. Also, China isn't a member of MTCR.

You are right about supply of more then 300km range missile within member countries, but with respect to China and Pak, since both have not signed this treaty they can sell it and it is legal, both being soverign states, just like India and Isreal have JVs.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

NATO has allies like Australia, SK, Canada who don't have such missiles even though they have good relations with the US.

You misunderstood my point, India have a full fledged defense Industry which have ability to make such Missiles, As this program is JV, PJ-10 get this capability as naturally..

All in all, I believe the mods should have waited for an Indian source to cover this news as well before starting a new thread on this

Indian link is already posted in this thread..

 

[p2prada]

Re: New Brahmos Missile range 500kms

Your premise is flawed. NATO has allies like Australia, SK, Canada who don't have such missiles even though they have good relations with the US.

US is currently developing 2 new cruise missiles for anti-ship role. One is subsonic with an estimated range that exceeds 1000Km and will also have a secondary land attack capability, called the LRASM-A. The second is a Brahmos type missile with RAMJET and supersonic speed with an unknown range called the LRASM-B. I think we can assume it is in the P-700 category, ie twice the range and payload as the Brahmos.

All in all, I believe the mods should have waited for an Indian source to cover this news as well before starting a new thread on this.

This seems to be fake news. Nothing out of the ordinary here. Only officials can confirm it, speculations are for the media to make.