Are Muslims getting a fair deal in India?

Yes there are some small groups in OBC reservation at state level including some ST groups for Christians. But the numbers are very small and the lion's share of the benefits are taken by Hindu groups. Some states like Kerala, TN e.t.c. have a specific Muslim OBC group and that allows them to use that reservation fully. And although it has helped muslim in the south to climb up the social ladder. I don't think that this is the best way to provide inclusive growth.

Wrong Data and Logic Ejaz.


There are approx. 21% SC in India in which 92-93% are Hindus, 4% are from 3 other Indian religions Buddhist, Sikhs, Jains. 2% Christans and 1%-2% Muslims.

Overall, Dalit Muslims are only 0.2% in India.

As far as Upper Cast, 60% of Muslims out of 160-170 Million are Upper Cast compare to opnlyyyyy 20% Hindus.

OBC are still fine as per various Social and Economic indicators.

Asking reservation for 0.2% Muslims is absurd when 50% Indians are living below 2 $ a day.

Only Indian religions need reservation based on SC.


http://ncm.nic.in/pdf/report%20dalit...eservation.pdf

Yes. This seems to be a good suggestion. I think this should be the way forward.

60% Muslims belong to so called Upper Cast.

39% Muslims belong to OBC.

1% Muslims only belong to SC/ST.

-- This is not my data but various Congress/Neutral research by various committee.

Asking reservation for 1% which is around 0.25% overall Indian if ridiculous.


May be OBC and so called upper cast for Muslims are also not par with Hindu Jats, Kurmi, Rajput or Brahmin. But blame to Muslims Mullahs, Madrassa and medival period education system. They are independent and most of them still following old Islamic education system. Visit to North Bihar or West U.P. and check all Madrassas. Many Middle-class and Rich Muslims still following such system. I lived 20 years where Muslims were around 25% in that area. They still believe in such system. A school nearby home had 10% Muslims and 90% Hindus and this is about Urban. Check 10,000 Madrassas in West U.P., North/East Bihar, Lower Assam, Border area of W.B. Situation is same. - In these locations, 50% Muslims of India are living.

Reservation based on Income logic is not possible due to too much manipulation. There is no way one can tell a person Income is 1 lakh or 50,000 per year. In India, 92%-95% people still not paying tax. May be after few decades.

Best Idea but it's Impossible to Implement at least for next few decades.

94% Indians don't pay tax.

How Government will find whether a person earning below 50,000 or above when 80%+ people making money from traditional small business, Labour, and unregistered process ??

If that will be implemented, 90% Indians would like to be in reservation category when currently it's 50% only.

A SC earning 55,000 from some salary will not fall in reservation category but smart Brahmin only showing 45,000 by his small business (even when Income is 1.5 lac) will fall in category. Ask 1,00,000 C.A.'s, it's very easy to do and it can't be changed.

Don't declare it yet sonny. Changes come when we least expect it. I 100% agree with Ejaz' idea. It is far better. And no, Muslims as a community are NOT underprivileged. It is not like Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs are rolling in piles of cash either that this has to be needlessly highlighted again and again for cheap secular politics.

With such a punitive tax regime that taxes so much (much more than Singapore, Japan, Korea or any other) that leaves a person depraved off his own hard-earned money, who would want to pay tax only to see it end up in politicians' Swiss and Italian bank accounts?

You tell me.

Don't you think there is a mechanism in USA, Europe and other places to track this down? The only way to get tax money honestly is to BE honest in reducing the Socialist level era of taxes where everything other than Roti, Kapda and Chhat are taxed as "luxury items". For example, if the government removed costly taxes on electronic goods, the business will increase so much that the increase in purchases itself due to lower prices will get them sufficient government revenue.

Our taxation sector is one of the worst in the world because of which even foreign businesses at micro level hesitate to invest. Add to the terrible infrastrcture we have compared to even much tinier countries.

The method to detect has to be digitalized. But if any government wants to stay in power after that, they will have to totally reshuffle taxation structure and remove many 1950s era taxes that were considered luxury, if they want economy to grow. I have been to several countries that are richer governmentally despite half of our taxes not being there.

@ Tshering

I said earlier also that is the best idea. I agree with you and Ejaz on such possibility. Indeed, I think everyone will agree with such idea.

Only problem is implementation. Government need to take lots and lots of effort and lots of things need to be done from digitization to Tax reform. Economic to social reform. Such things happens in western countries but very difficult to implement in India in current scenario. These takes lots of time even after Government is serious. I wish reservation based on economic condition becomes reality but it won't happen in next 1-2 decades at least.

^^ This will only be possible when there is no chance for any votebank left; aka semi-authoritarian regime. That is when the new leaders will be incentivize to compete with the dragon without worrying for their votebank. Reservation today exists only for select communities using fake generic names and is a method to divide and conquer the Indian masses.

@Galaxy

When I was talking about tax exemptions, I was not referring to personal tax but tax exemptions for the companies that adhere to Equal opportunity guidelines. For example, a govt. department in Australia is given guidelines on hiring indigenous Aboriginal Australians with a prescribed intake "range" for a five year period. If the dept. meets the target or goes above it, they get special tax exemptions or other incentives. If they fail for five years in a row to meet the minimum intake, they can be warned and then fined for not adhering to the guidelines. this extends to private sector as well.

Its similar to say fire safety laws or workers compensation laws. I agree that it may not be implemented in your local Kirana stores. But as long as its implemented in govt. universities and govt. jobs, I think that alone can make a massive difference to poor Upper Caste Hindus, Christians as well as Muslims who are no in the reserved category and provide a fare and level playing field for all.





Regarding the Muslim SCs, I am not sure what your point is. If SC Muslims are so small a number and they have suffered the same as other Dalit groups, then reservation for them becomes a strong case as other Hindu SCs will hardly be affected. Adding 0.25% more people in the Dalit reservation category will practically not take anything from them. Just like Sikh or Buddhists Dalits.
If there were a large amount of Muslims SCs that would skew reservation benefits for existing SCs, then that would be a problem, but if 0.25% is the correct number, then that is miniscule. And by reasoning was because of their small numbers, they will not get SC status.
So to summarise I am saying
(1) Muslim SCs constinute a minuscule minority of the SC as well as the Muslim population but are also the most deserving of reservation if it was given among Muslims in general because of being the most backward and severely disadvantaged status.
(2) However, they will not get SC status precisely because of their miniscule numbers and because other Muslim groups would not like Muslim SCs getting special reservation benefits alone. And it is doubtful if their fellow caste people like Hindu, Sikh and Buddhist SCs will support their demand.

Do you disagree with this?

And I hope you read my earlier post about how 80-90% of the poor Hindu population already gets reservations here. SC/ST/OBC benefits benefit mainly Hindu groups so the poor Hindus are already being given the reservation facilities. Some like SC status exclusively to Hindus.
http://defenceforumindia.com/religio...tml#post370759

I agree that upper caste Muslims may also be at the same socio-economic levels or even lower than OBC Hindu group. So there is a case if OBC groups can have reservation than why not upper caste Muslims. And this is one of the reasons caste based reservations systems is just not right in my opinion. That is why scrapping reservation system as soon as possible is important overall but replacing it with an Equal Opportunity watchdog that tries to make sure that disadvantaged communities are not affected.





And on the madrssa system being the cause of doom and gloom for Muslims. Again, less than 4% of Muslim students attend Maddrassa as per the 2005 NSSO survey. And even among these, their preference is a regular school mostly but because there is no school nearby, they send their kids to a madrassa. There is severe shortage of schools all over the country including in Muslim areas.
There is no doubt that madrassa education needs to be reformed. And even these Madrassa are modernizing at a frentic pace. Many of them have started teaching subjects like English, Maths and Computers. Some even have Non-Muslim pupils. And students give board exams and pass SSC exams based on their madrassa education even. Maybe if you went back to your place of residence in UP and visit the local madrassa, you will notice this difference. Other wise you can check out these reports as well that are all recent.
Why many Hindu students study in Bihar's madrasas - Rediff.com India News
The Hindu : NATIONAL / ANDHRA PRADESH : Madrasa students shine in formal subjects
English-speaking madrassa girls surprise Richard Stagg - Times Of India

UP,Bihar, W Bengal and Assam are some of the poorest states in India, they also contain more than 50% of the Muslim population. And the socio-economic indicators of the state as a whole is one of the lowest in India as well. This naturally results in Muslim socio-economic indicators being low skewing their national averages as well.
And if you read my first post, I am focussing specifically on the issue of govt. jobs and access to govt. education institutions that indirectly affect Muslims because of being the lowest social group as a whole in the unreserved category.
I explained this in more detail here
http://defenceforumindia.com/religio...tml#post370749