Why is Kashmir issue unresolved yet with Pakistan?

[santosh10]

We held Kashmir because Indians invaded Kashmir? Now tell me you guys didn't invade? Why you guys are not offering refrendum to Kashmirs. You can't compare FATA or etc with Kashmir because we didn't invade those territories




We are not Arabs! Who told you so?




Neither Islam nor any enlightened Pakistani support such heinous crime. Bunch of misguided goons are doing this and we know how to deal with them. It would be better if you guys stop supporting such goons and ask Afghanistan to do the same otherwise you people are digging your own grave

we have a short history of Kashmir as below :thumb:

Jammu & Kashmir: Spineless India, Cunning Pakistan, Toothless UN

Despite of three all out wars between India and Pakistan only one in 1947 was fought by India to regain its own territory illegally occupied by invader Pakistan. On October 22, 1947 Pakistani army disguised as tribals and branded as Mujjahiddins invaded Jammu & Kashmir then an independent princely state ruled by Maharaja Hari Singh. The ruler of Kashmir, who on October 26, 1947 using the provisions of Indian Independence Act 1947 passed by the British Parliament merged his state with India. By virtue of the signed Instrument of Accession, the former princely state of Jammu and Kashmir like other more than 500 princely states of pre-partition India became integral part of India. Thereafter Indian army initiated military actions to push out disguised Pakistani army out of own territories in Jammu & Kashmir but before regaining entire territories illegally occupied by Pakistan J. M. Nehru the then Indian prime minister unilaterally declared ceasefire on January 1,1948.

Just one day before unilaterally declaring cease-fire, the Indian Prime Minister J. M. Nehru declared to conduct plebiscite in Jammu & Kashmir. J. M. Nehru's offer of Plebiscite in UN on December 31, 1947 itself was unauthorized and illegal. First of all Nehru had no right or powers to offer plebiscite in Jammu & Kashmir in UN or anywhere else due to signing and acceptance of Instrument of Accession on October 26, 1947 as the Jammu & Kashmir had become integral part of India. If at all, any one had the right or power to declare plebiscite or cede any territory to any other country in any part of India it was Indian Parliament and that was under process of coming into existence. The Constituent Assembly, which was in existence at that time was constituted with only objects to bring the Indian constitution and parliament into existence and had no powers or rights to take any decision to conduct plebiscite or cede any territory of India to any other country.

Moreover, Nehru's offer of Plebiscite made within 70 days of the merger of Jammu & Kashmir into India was against the intention and spirit of the Instrument of Accession signed by the Maharaja Hari Singh former ruler of princely state Jammu & Kashmir. As per the powers conferred by the Indian Independence Act 1947 passed by the British Parliament the ruler Hari Singh merged his state with India to make it an integral part of India and not to offer his state to conduct plebiscite by India. If at all the ruler Hari Singh of Jammu & Kashmir wished to do so, he could have done it himself why he needed India or Nehru to offer plebiscite in his state?

However, in any case, Pakistan has no right of any kind even on one-inch territory of Jammu & Kashmir including the illegally occupied territories since 1947 as it is an integral part of India. If Pakistan claims Kashmir just because there are more Muslims in Kashmir then why India should not claim entire Pakistan as there are more Muslims in India than in the entire Pakistan?

Nehru's unilateral, suicidal, irresponsible, unauthorized, illegal and treacherous offer of plebiscite in own territories shocked Indians and surprised Pakistan as Pakistan never expected something of that kind will be gifted by Indian prime minister. Moreover, even Pakistan had never uttered a word plebiscite in Kashmir before Nehru committed that historic blunder.

The whole idea of invasion of Jammu & Kashmir was a brainchild of Pakistani army and was conceived in a month of September 1947, immediately after creation of Pakistan on August 14, 1947. Before partition, Mohammad Ali Jinnah never thought of inclusion of not only Jammu & Kashmir but also any particular territory into Pakistan. What Jinnah wanted was an independent nation exclusively for Muslims no matter how small, size was not important for him but creation of one separate and independent nation was. Otherwise, in first place Jinnah known for his adamant nature would not have agreed to the "Mountbatten Plan" itself, as that was supposed to be the basis of Indian Independence Act 1947, later passed by the British Parliament. The results of plebiscite in Baluchistan and voting in Sindh Assembly to decide merger with either India or Pakistan could go in anybody's favor. Moreover, instead of playing that gamble of plebiscite, the clever and adamant Jinnah would have insisted on straightway creation of Pakistan by inclusion of the territories he wanted to be parts of Pakistan in same way, as he forced the Indian National Congress agree to his demand of partition of India.

Nehru's free run of committing blunder after blunders of Jammu & Kashmir continued for years, as the national territories were his own private property, surprisingly without any resistance from the Congressmen. Nehru did not stop with the blunders of announcing ceasefire and plebiscite but committed another blunder by inclusion of discriminatory Section 370 into Indian Constitution giving special status to the state of Jammu & Kashmir.

There were more than 500 princely states in pre-partition India and the state of Jammu & Kashmir was one of them. The state of Jammu & Kashmir merged with India just like all other states merged in accordance with the provisions of Indian Independence Act 1947. The special status under the Section 370 of the Indian Constitution was not granted to all other more than 500 former princely states and was offered only the state of Jammu & Kashmir in clear violation of natural and equal justice to all. That means the Section 370 itself was discriminatory. Only thing nobody did challenge the validity of inclusion of that discriminatory Section 370 into Indian Constitution in the court of law.

The successive Indian Congress led governments in India have committed multiple blunders by messing up the one point simple issue of regaining invaded and illegally occupied own territories kicking Pakistan out at any costs. Moreover, the cunning Pakistanis always stole the Indian army sacrifices and victories of war in post-war treaties with Indians. Even in the propaganda and diplomatic moves, the Pakistanis are hundred of years ahead of India. Despite of being invader and illegal occupier of Indian territories, Pakistan bullies India at will and Indians being the legal owners of the territories illegally occupied by Pakistan ridiculously behave as if they are in illegal occupation of the Jammu & Kashmir.

The return of regained own territories of the state of Jammu & Kashmir back to the invader and illegal occupier Pakistan after 1971 India-Pakistan war shows how much India loves its own territories and how much is serious in regaining entire territories illegally occupied by Pakistan. Moreover, Indian diplomacy (?) could not understand that the return of own regained territories back to the invader Pakistan would give legitimacy to the Pakistani illegal occupation of Indian territories. Despite of victor, the entire handling of post-war situation, more than diplomatic disaster was greatest blunder in the series of blunders committed since 1947 by Indian governments led by the Congress party. May be India was the only country in the world to do such national suicide.

After losing the greatest opportunity to resolve the Kashmir issue once for all by forcing defeated Pakistan to totally withdraw from the illegally occupied Indian territories of Jammu & Kashmir after end of 1971 war, today India is left with very few options.

First India needs to shed defensive, elusive, spiritless and spineless behavior and stop selling of Jammu & Kashmir to Pakistan in the name of autonomy in exchange for halt in terror attacks emanating from Pakistan. The purpose of using terror therapy itself is to make India agree to the terms of Pakistan that means swallowing remaining Indian territories of Jammu & Kashmir in collusion with some anti-Indians on Pakistani payroll.

Second, enough is enough India should at least have some fire and spirit to regain its own territories, not by shying away from the international scene fearing the 'K' word but boldly presenting the realities of legal and completed accession of Jammu & Kashmir into India in October 1947.

Further, India must admit the blunders committed by the J. M. Nehru the then prime minster of India by declaring unilateral cease fire before completely regaining own territories illegally occupied by Pakistan and Nehru's irresponsible, unauthorized and illegal act in UN that offered to conduct plebiscite in own territories of Jammu & Kashmir. The blunder committed by Nehru has made Indian successive generations pay by hundreds of thousands of innocent human lives, billions of dollars in expenditures apart from making generations of hundreds of thousands of Indian Kashmiri Pandits refugees in their own motherland in last sixty years by the treacherous act of one man and sycophantic silence of many.

Pakistanis really have tremendous spirit and fire despite of being the invaders and illegal occupiers of Indian territories of Jammu & Kashmir. In contrast, not a single Indian leader in successive Indian ruling set-ups had even fraction of that spirit and fire the Pakistanis have, otherwise, India would have regained the entire territories illegally occupied by Pakistan long back.

Still it's not impossible only thing needed is one or few leaders in Indian ruling set-up who has got real fire and national spirit and keeps themselves on fire until Pakistan is kicked out of illegally occupied Indian territories rising above petty politics of getting power and remain stuck to power at any cost . However, the big question is whether India has such dynamic leader who can rise above petty politics in interest of nation. When Pakistan has engaged itself full time since 1947 on single agenda of swallowing remaining territories of Indian state of Jammu & Kashmir, Indians except licking the wounds of terror emanating from Pakistan and occasional ceremonial announcements of Jammu & Kashmir is integral part of India have done nothing to regain own territories illegally occupied by Pakistan. Today Pakistan due to its complicity in terror is at the lowest standing in International scene with total loss of credibility. Moreover, more than 30% of the Pakistani army is already inside Afghanistan and 40% in own tribal region adjoining Afghanistan in the guise of non-existing ghost Taliban and another 10-15% will move in next few months time and remain in western Pakistan for long time.

What Indians needs is a courage for bold moves shedding aside the spineless and spiritless diplomacy and lusty domestic power politics and bring forth the reality of completed legal accession of Jammu & Kashmir into India on October 26, 1947 before world, in loud, clear, positive and confident voice and correct the blunders of Jammu & Kashmir once for all by regaining own territories back.

The threat of Pakistani nuclear weapons is non-existent; the tiny geographical size of Pakistan makes the entire nuclear arsenal useless and suicidal for Pakistan, if used against India. Any simultaneous Pakistani nuclear aggression even on all top ten cities of India will not destroy the Indian ability to retaliate in same way, and in such case, "the tiny Pakistan will be wipe out from the world map". The intelligent ISI that is nuclear command and real center of power of Pakistan will never ever dare to convert whole Pakistan into ashes. The tricks of moving some of the nuclear weapons towards India in the times of tension were only to bring world pressure on India to cool relations with Pakistan fearing nuclear flash between two countries. Therefore, ISI should remain concentrated on its mission of realization of Federation of Islamic Republics by invading other countries using disguised Pakistani regular army as non-existent ghost Taliban.

The Pakistani nuclear program boosted not to maintain any balance with India but first for successful creation of master of ISI's dream of Federation of Islamic Republics and thereafter to thwart every US military action against Federation of Islamic Republics to dislodge Pakistani army as Taliban. The Pakistani nuclear program including acquisition of nuclear capable ready-to-use No-Dong missiles from North Korea in exchange for nuclear technology began when ISI decided to go ahead with the idea of Federation of Islamic Republics by Pakistani army under the guise of non-existing ghost Taliban in 1994.

The astonishing speed Pakistani pile-up of longer and longer-range nuclear capable ready-to-use Korean missiles is to counter US threats forever and not India on Kashmir issue. Moreover, for ISI Kashmir is very a paltry territory in comparison with Federation of Islamic Republics that is suppose to include parts of Central, entire Middle East and West Asia. ISI knows US will never go beyond certain limit against nuclear states and unless long-range nuclear capable missiles with nuclear war heads are stocked in large scale, ISI cannot bring the powerful US on equal terms like former USSR. In the cold war era, US at all costs avoided direct military conflict with former USSR fearing nuclear backlash. Once the rapidly ongoing re-invasion of Afghanistan by Pakistani army in the guise of Taliban is completed, it will take hardly year or two Pakistan to invade one or two poor defenseless countries of Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan or Kyrgyzstan under the guise of Taliban. What ISI plans are is somehow declare its non-existing ghosts Taliban and Al-Qaeda having hold on entire nuclear stock pile of Pakistan as that game plan will force all Islamic countries to surrender to the Taliban's Federation of Islamic Republics and also thwart every US military action against the ISI's Grand National Conspiracy.

The United Nations inaction in forcing Pakistan to withdraw from the illegally occupied Indian territories even after of lapse of sixty years despite of its own resolution passed on August 13, 1948 has only proved how weak the UN is. UN that blamed Pakistan for invasion and ordered Pakistan to withdraw from the illegal occupation Indian territories, in fact did nothing to force Pakistan to vacate Indian territories. The UN inactions have proved UN is toothless organization and could be bullied by any country that is rogue. The UN failure to enforce its own resolution allowed Pakistan to continue its illegal occupation of Indian territories continuously for last sixty years and has emboldened Pakistan to invade Afghanistan under guise of non-existing ghost Taliban, in the same manner as it did in Jammu & Kashmir in October 1947. The drastic UN failure has given an impression to Pakistan that not only it can invade any country under guise of non-existing ghosts but also can retain occupation for decades or may be forever despite of UN resolutions. As far as UN resolutions are concerned, they are nothing but bullshit for Pakistan.

Any territorial trade off by India in Jammu & Kashmir for peace with Pakistan too is not possible for any party government India. On December 31, 1947, the then Indian prime minster J. M. Nehru who was leading the Constituent Assembly had made an offer of plebiscite in Jammu & Kashmir in UN. That offer was in absence of Indian Constitution and Parliament as both were under process of coming into existence. In 1994, for the first time Indian Parliament has unanimously passed resolution declaring entire Jammu & Kashmir that includes the territories illegally occupied by Pakistan and China as an integral part of India. That particular resolution has overruled and nullified the previous offers of plebiscite and ceasefire in entire Jammu & Kashmir made by the then prime minster of India J. M. Nehru in UN. Now no government of India under president's rule or led by any party can trade off even one inch of Indian territory including illegally held by Pakistan or China in exchange to buy peace or to halt terror emanating from Pakistan. If Indian government wants to do so, the Indian parliament needs to pass unanimous resolution allowing ceding of Indian territories to Pakistan as the Jammu & Kashmir is an integral part of India and unless Indian parliament passes such unanimous resolution, allowing ceding of nation's territories to Pakistan any territorial trade off by Indian political parties shall be unconstitutional, therefore illegal.

Had India or UN kicked invader Pakistan out of illegally occupied Indian territories of Jammu & Kashmir immediately after invasion on October 22 1947 or before mid 1990s Pakistan would not have dared again to use the same modus operandi used to invade Kashmir in 19947 to invade Afghanistan in 1990s and now once again in 2007-08. Even the 1998 simultaneous terror attacks on US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, the 9/11 in US, 7/7 in UK and hundreds of terror attacks in India, Afghanistan and elsewhere that ended hundreds of thousands of valuable innocent human lives and billions of dollars in expenditures would not have taken place at all.

However, Pakistan needs to be forced to vacate illegal occupation of Indian territories held since 1947. As that will make every present and future rogue Pakistani elements realize that the world shall not allow it to invade and continue illegal occupation of even one inch territory of other countries. Unless that happens, the Pakistani army's missions of invading other countries in one or other guise shall never halt and there will be more Jammu & Kashmirs beyond Afghanistan. Once the ongoing process of re-invasion of Afghanistan is over in few months in the guise of non-existing ghost Taliban, nobody can stop the deadly ISI from invading Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, and almost all countries of Middle East, West Asia and North Africa under the guise of non-existing ghost Taliban in next few years of time.

Jammu & Kashmir - Spineless India, Cunning Pakistan, Toothless UN : Peace Kashmir

 

[santosh10]

We held Kashmir because Indians invaded Kashmir? Now tell me you guys didn't invade? Why you guys are not offering refrendum to Kashmirs. You can't compare FATA or etc with Kashmir because we didn't invade those territories

why is pakistan occupying kashmir then? and what about balochistan, sindh, NWFP and FATA? free these places and let them be independent countries.

@Ray

A Scotland Type Referendum may result in break down of over 90% countries of world

sir, once i discussed that even if a true English Identity Scotland voting favor its unity in UK, im surprised. but if you conduct a similar voting in USA, for example, the United States of America may then be parted into many states of North america, mainly on High Debt sharing issue

and Ashutosh made the right answer, that is, all the parts of Pakistan may get separated if you conduct referendum there. while about Baluchistan, its wasn't part of British India at the time of 1947, so its totally occupied by Pakistan. as we do know, even if you conduct voting there under very high threat of Pakistani Military, over 99%+ voting in Baluchistan would simply kick Pakistan .....

and this is how we find in many countries of world, whether South America, Africa, Asia etc, if you conduct referendum there, most of them would get break down. even if you conduct voting in the states of India like Bihar, people generally like small states, like how Jharkhand recently got separated from Bihar....

and if Pakistan has real moral values, then it must first free Baluchistan, which was neither India not Pakistan at the time of freedom in 1947. here the post as below may also have a place, i think :thumb:

Over 50% countries of world share Bordering states with Each Others

hmmmm, almost half of the countries of world have the bordering regions shared with each others, not just POK to Pakistan and Indian Kashmir to India. and the best example we have about Baluchistan shared with Iran and Pakistan both, which wasn't part of British India till 1947 itself. and you can't just start freeing the bordering states, like Western Punjab to Pakistan and East Punjab to India as a Punjab country as whole. West Bengal to India and East Bengal (Bangladesh) a separate countries, as partition of India occurred on religious ground in 1947, even if India remained a non-religious country while Pakistan took birth as a Islamic State....

we have example of the bordering states shared between Russia and China for what they have fought wars during 50s and 60s of 20th century itself. we have half of the ASEAN region countries claiming on the areas of each others on borders, while Japan-China keep fighting for the oil fields/islands in between them, just because they share "water border", the usual news we get

and in fact, freedom of Baluchistan, which is part of Iran and Pakistan both, has been a touching issue for India since the time of "Nawab Akbar Bugti", who was murdered by "air strike" at the age of 80+ during the time of Mr Musharraf, because of his freedom struggle. i always remember Nawab Akbar Bugti as a leader of Baluchistan, and asking help from India while saying "my dear Indian Brothers and Sisters", a unique way of talking he had......

Akbar Bugti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and hence we have every reason to accept the India's border as how it was since 1951, the year when most of the states of Indian continent had joined to India under British's "India Independence Act 1947", most of borders of this region had been recognized till then, with accepting POK as part of Pakistan, similar to West Punjab to Pakistan and East Bengal as Bangladesh, as we have. my own personal view......

Baloch nationalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Bangalorean]

India's army and its national security establishment is now experimenting with a new strategy to deal with Pakistan. Refusing to subscribe to the well-known argument that a stable Pakistan is in the interest of India, the new thinking in India's official circles is that it should be more active in supporting dissident and separatist groups in Pakistan and helping militant groups that challenge the Pakistani state.

I don't know if Modi actually thinks this way, but if he does, its the best thing to have happened to India since independence. I agree that a stable Pakistan is NOT in India's interest. What do you guys do it you have a modicum of stability? Foment terror in Kashmir, you did in Punjab earlier (and failed), get bomb blasts to happen in Indian metropolitan cities - this is what you do.

It is best if Pakistan is unstable and constantly on the boil, mired in inter-religious and inter-sect strife, and inter-region fights. That is the best for India. Anyone who follows this policy has my vote.

We do not worship anyone except God and we do recognize our pre Islamic heritage. Stop relying on filthy information indoctrinated in your textbooks.

Our textbooks don't even mention Pakis much, except in formal and terse tones. I have seen your textbooks though, and I know what Jihadi material is filled in there.

By the way, good that you accepted that your ancestors were Hindus. We don't get our information from our textbooks, but by interacting with brain-dead Pakis online. Most people don't know (or don't accept) that they are descendants of Hindus.

 

[Bhadra]

Let the Kashmir be an Independent Nation. Have a mercy on suffering human soul

First Thing first : when you say Kashmir, I hope you are referring to J&K or oly Kashmir valley?

Second, Is Kashmir a nation ? What defines Kashmir or J&K as a nation? I think by your contentious standards, Baluchis are better qualified to be called a nation than Kashmiris ! Pakhtoons would also qualify to be called a nation and so would Sindhies be. Who all would qualify to be free as you demand ?

Thirdly, so far suffering goes, Sindhies, Baloch, Pakhtoons, tribals, Shias, Ahmadies. Malikis, Ismailies suffer more due to sectarian persecution and economic deprivation much more than Kashmiris.

Charity begins at home my dear friend.

 

[SLASH]

Trade Kashmir valley for gilgit and balistan and finish it off. Pakistan gets its water security we get our energy security from Central Asia, as well as connectivity to Agghanistan
Sent from my RM-821_im_india_443 using Tapatalk

 

[ladder]

Trade Kashmir valley for gilgit and balistan and finish it off. Pakistan gets its water security we get our energy security from Central Asia, as well as connectivity to Agghanistan
Sent from my RM-821_im_india_443 using Tapatalk

Well, you think Pakistan will barter GB with Valley and thus de-link it's only land route to China?

 

[santosh10]

Let the Kashmir be an Independent Nation. Have a mercy on suffering human soul

Pakistan was never a safe country for Indian Muslims, not even for the leader of MQM

Muhajir Qaumi Movement (Haqiqi) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

further to the above talk, its not just Junnahghar, and Hydarabad merged with Republic of India with over 90%+ at the time of freedom, along with Independence of Bangladesh from Pakistani Rulers, we always found that Pakistan was never a safe place for Indian Muslims. hence Pakistan establishment can't just say that they may speak in behalf of Muslims of either Indonesia, Turkey, Nigeria or India itself

for example of even the leader of MQM, Mr Altaf Hussain, he does know why he is living in Britain for more than two decade. the leader of Indian Muslim migrants living in Pakistan, the leader of Muhazir Qaumi Movement, was never safe to live in Pakistan. bit more about him may be read as below :ranger:

From APMSO to MQM: 1978—1984

While studying at the University of Karachi, Altaf Hussain felt the need for a better representation for the Muhajir people in Pakistan. He served as the general secretary, and later the president, of the National Students' Action Committee at the university.[citation needed] On 11 June 1978, he founded the All Pakistan Muhajir Students Organisation (APMSO). What started out as a student rights group campaigning for the right of Muhajir students in the University of Karachi later turned into a broader political entity. On 18 March 1984, Hussain formally announced the formation of the Muhajir Qaumi Mahaz (MQM) which was later renamed Muttahida Qaumi Movement on 26 June 1997.[citation needed]

Bihari cause and arrest: 1979

The political strife of the APMSO bifurcated into the issue of stranded Pakistanis in Bangladesh an on 14 August 1979, Hussain participated in a demonstration at the Mazar-e-Quaid for the safe return of stranded Pakistanis, also called the Biharis. Following the demonstration, Hussain was arrested and sentenced on 2 October 1979 for 9 months imprisonment and flogging with five strokes. Hussain was later released on 28 April 1980 after he had served his sentence.[24]

Ethnic riots: 1985—1986

The urban centres of Karachi and Hyderabad had increasingly become ethnically diverse and riots along ethnic lines were commonplace.[25] In May 1985, a Pathan minivan driver struck and killed a muhajir schoolgirl inciting the first Pathan-Muhajir ethnic riot. Later, following an unsuccessful raid on an Afghan heroine processing and distribution centre in Sohrab Goth by the army, Pathan and Afghan thugs turned their ire on muhajir residents of Aligarh Colony.[23]

The Aligarh Colony massacre instigated the bloody riots of November–December 1986. These riots saw the popularity of MQM and its leader Altaf Hussain rise and the party's ideology was greatly influenced as a result.[23]

Pacco Qillo address and arrest: October 1986

Before October 1986, the urban city of Hyderabad was largely dominated by the Sindhi nationalist party Jeay Sindh Qaumi Mahaz (JSQM) founded by G. M. Syed giving rise to the nationalist slogan "Sindhu Desh" (or "Sindhi nation").[26] The only Muhajir political movement countering the JSQM were led by Syed Mubarak Ali Shah of Moti Mahal, Nawab Zahid Ali Khan and Nawab Muzaffar Hussain. After the death of these Muhajir stalwarts, the Urdu-speaking people of Hyderabad yearned for a charismatic Muhajir leadership.[27]

On 31 October 1986, Altaf Hussain gave his first public address in Hyderabad at the site of the historic Pacco Qillo, where he was greeted by throngs of crowds. After his address, his message was well received by the Urdu-speaking people of Hyderabad and Hussain was able to fill the void left by the deaths of Muhajir leaders.[27] Hussain and a few of his companions, were arrested by security personnel after his address implicating him in several alleged criminal cases.[24] His arrest enraged his supporters who launched public movements for his release. The charges against Hussain and his companions were later dropped and they were released from the Central Prison Karachi on 24 February 1987.[24]

Arrest and local bodies election: 1987

In 1987 the government began widespread arrests of Mutahidda Qaumi Movement workers all over Sindh. Altaf Hussain surrendered to law enforcement agencies on 30 August 1987 on the condition that the further arrests of his party's workers would be stopped immediately. During Hussain's imprisonment MQM placed highly in the local bodies election of 1987, and there was pressure to release Hussain and he was released on 7 January 1988.[24]

Sindhi-Muhajir accord: 1988

In early 1987, Altaf Hussain issued MQM's Charter of Resolutions (Qarardad-i-Maqasid) which formed the basis for the party's ideology. The MQM charter was paramount in expressing many of the "long-standing grievances" of Sindhi nationalists,[28] and a cooperative arrangement was worked out between the MQM and various Sindhi nationalist parties in early 1988.[29] Apart from the points stipulated in the party's original resolution, Hussain also introduced the idea of Muhajir being a "fifth subnationality" alongside the Punjabis, Pathans, Baloch, Sindhis.[30]

Nationalistic woes

The Karachi Declaration: 1988

The 1988 general elections proved quite clearly that the voting patterns in Sindh were based on ethnic lines where the Pakistan Peoples Party and the MQM won almost all seats in the national assembly. The PPP had derived its support from the Sindhi population in the province, whilst the MQM from the Muhajirs. At this point in time, in less than four years of its making, MQM emerged as the third largest political party in Pakistan.[31] :thumb:

Altaf Hussain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

=>

and this is MQM as whole, to fight for Indian Muslim migrants there. the state of Indian Muslim migrants to Pakistan

 

[santosh10]

An Independent Baluchistan and Republic of Jinnahpur, is directly related to the circumstances of 1947 Indian Independence
@UsmanWrites

Pakistan's flag burning by India's Migrant Muslim Youth, including Mr Altaf Hussain, during 80s/90s was always a news, including their demand for "Republic of Jinnahpur" does have a voice of suffering Muslims of Pakistan.....

and if Pakistan wants to discuss the circumstances of 1947 Independence, including Kashmir, they first need to free Baluchistan which wasn't part of British India till 1947, and also they need to give rights to Indian Muslims migrants as below. as Pakistan promised a safe place for Muslims that time, the reason why British rulers were agreed for an "Independent Islamic State of Pakistan" :ranger:

=>

SYED JAMALUDDIN WELCOMES PUBLIC ADDRESS OF ALTAF HUSSAIN AND DEMANDS MAKING OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR

Syed Jamaluddin has welcomed public address of Altaf Hussain (Sunday 12th May 2013) in which Altaf Hussain had condemned the role of Pakistan's military establishment and certain media houses apart from certain political parties which do not like popularity of MQM in the urban areas of Sindh. Syed Jamaluddin stated that he (Syed Jamaluddin) has been advocating disintegration of Pakistan since 2001 and has been requesting Altaf Hussain ever since not to trust the military establishment as well as leaders of those political parties which were born under the umbrella of such military establishment belonging to Punjab including Sindhi political leadership and Pakhtoon settlers in Karachi. Syed Jamaluddin said that time has come for the liberation of Urdu speaking nation and making of an independent state called REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR. It is now time for MQM to realize the need for such an independent state for Urdu speaking nation and there should not be any further delay in this endeavour to be implemented with all zeal and enthusiasm. Syed Jamaluddin hoped that millions of Urdu speaking people will certainly stand on any call from Altaf Hussain for a separate state. There is no alternative but to ensure the freedom of Urdu speaking nation from the prison called Pakistan which is governed by Punjab's military dictatorship behind the curtain through Punjabi and Sindhi political bandits. Syed Jamaluddin urged Altaf Hussain to declare FREEDOM STRUGGLE with immediate effect and issue orders to all Urdu speaking youth to be prepared for a CIVIL WAR in urban centres of Sindh province in order to gain victory over the Punjabi-sponsored Sindhi nationalist political parties as well as certain local elements which are being nourished by INTER-SERVICES INTELLIGENCE (ISI) through a new puppet political party called PAKISTAN JUSTICE PARTY (PTI) under the socalled leadership of a PLAYBOY called IMRAN KHAN. :ranger:

Syed Jamaluddin recalled that Altaf Hussain had made a biggest mistake by attempting to enter into broader political spectrum of Pakistan without realizing that none of the other provinces would recognize or accept URDU SPEAKING NATION as patriotic Pakistanis. The evidence of such an attitude is visible from the mindset of such political forces belonging to Punjab, Sindh, Khyber Pakhtoonkhwa and Balochistan. Syed Jamaluddin requested Altaf Hussain NOT TO WASTE A SINGLE MINUTE in deciding for an independent country for Urdu speaking nation and urged that all Urdu speaking youth must come out of their homes and demonstrate their willingness for an independent state called REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR. The flags of REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR must be spread all over Karachi and other cities of Sindh province. Syed Jamaluddin hoped that Punjab´s military establishment would not confront the ever-rising energy of Urdu speaking nation and would never think or attempt to resist the FREEDOME MOVEMENT of Urdu speaking nation. Syed Jamaluddin cautioned Punjab´s military establishment that in the event of any potential OPERATION CLEAN-UP type of terrorism as committed by Pak Army back in 1992, Urdu speaking nation would abandon Punjab Army and cut them into pieces. Syed Jamaluddin asked the current CHIEF OF ARMY STAFF General Ashfaq Pervez Kiyani to withdraw all military and para-military forces including Rangers from Karachi and Hyderabad as soon as possible thereby paving way for the Urdu speaking nation to declare their independence. Syed Jamaluddin hoped that NATO FORCES would come to secure people of Karachi and other urban centres of Sindh in the event of any potential terrorism by Pakistani Army. Syed Jamaluddin has also requested INTERNATIONAL COMITY OF NATIONS and member countries of NATO to immediately intervene and ensure that any attempt to commit genocide of Urdu speaking nation under the dictatorship of Punjab´s military establishment is foiled. The UN Secretary General must send a FACT FINDING DELEGATION to Karachi in order to determine the need for a PLEBISCITE in the urban centres of Sindh province to find out if Urdu speaking nation wants to live under the umbrella of a terrorist / failed state called Pakistan or wants INDEPENDENCE.

DIVIDE PAKISTAN TO ELIMINATE TERRORISM: SYED JAMALUDDIN WELCOMES PUBLIC ADDRESS OF ALTAF HUSSAIN AND DEMANDS MAKING OF REPUBLIC OF JINNAHPUR

 

[Vezeta]

Recently Bilawal Bhutto says that he will take single inch of Kashmir, so I have decided to solve Kashmir problem. Land rates and property rates inIndia are very high so this we should use for our advantage, so next time if you people ask Kashmir, we will use this to solve kashmir problem, let just you should buy Kashmir, total area is 700 crore sq. feet and ratein India is 15000 rupees /sq. feet so total amount came out to be 100 lakh crore .Now if you have this much money then buy , if you are thinking of buying then wait I forget that it dosen't include 10 % development tax, 11% property tax and 12 % VAT so total tax become 40 lakh crore which is 5 times your GDP. So basically Kashmir's TDS > Pakistan 's GDP and you want get loan from world bank also because for this you must required three years of bank statement and while looking at your balance sheet it looks more like piggy bank ststement

 

[ladder]

Recently Bilawal Bhutto says that he will take single inch of Kashmir, so I have decided to solve Kashmir problem. Land rates and property rates inIndia are very high so this we should use for our advantage, so next time if you people ask Kashmir, we will use this to solve kashmir problem, let just you should buy Kashmir, total area is 700 crore sq. feet and ratein India is 15000 rupees /sq. feet so total amount came out to be 100 lakh crore .Now if you have this much money then buy , if you are thinking of buying then wait I forget that it dosen't include 10 % development tax, 11% property tax and 12 % VAT so total tax become 40 lakh crore which is 5 times your GDP. So basically Kashmir's TDS > Pakistan 's GDP and you want get loan from world bank also because for this you must required three years of bank statement and while looking at your balance sheet it looks more like piggy bank ststement

Credit goes to Vipul Goyal. Anyways welcome to the Forum.


Credit of video, with the original uploader.

 

[Bhadra]

Recently Bilawal Bhutto says that he will take single inch of Kashmir, so I have decided to solve Kashmir problem. Land rates and property rates inIndia are very high so this we should use for our advantage, so next time if you people ask Kashmir, we will use this to solve kashmir problem, let just you should buy Kashmir, total area is 700 crore sq. feet and ratein India is 15000 rupees /sq. feet so total amount came out to be 100 lakh crore .Now if you have this much money then buy , if you are thinking of buying then wait I forget that it dosen't include 10 % development tax, 11% property tax and 12 % VAT so total tax become 40 lakh crore which is 5 times your GDP. So basically Kashmir's TDS > Pakistan 's GDP and you want get loan from world bank also because for this you must required three years of bank statement and while looking at your balance sheet it looks more like piggy bank ststement

I do not think, Indians sell their mother land . More than the amount quoted is stashed by Bhutto, Benzir and zardari in Swiss accounts. They will buy it and be the sole rulers and get rid of their Pakistan Punjabi trouble creators.

Do even joke like that. That , in my opinion, was not a good joke.

 

[santosh10]

Let the Kashmir be an Independent Nation. Have a mercy on suffering human soul

Few Basic Questions for Pakistani Nationals

as per my last few posts#127, #128, (and also #121, #122) , i would welcome your answer on few questions as below, with some rationale approach. thanks

1st: how Pakistan talk about Kashmir issue, which is well part of India as per the British laws of "India Independence Act 1947", while it was never honest with non-Punjabi Muslims within? how do you claim to have sympathy of Muslims of any part of world, if East Pakistani Muslims were punished for being Bengal Muslims in Pakistan, which led to Independence of Bangladesh by 1971, finally? which was similar to how Junahghar and Hydarbad voted by over 90%+ to merge in Republic of India, just after the Independence in 1947?

2nd: how do you think to have sympathy for any part of Muslims, whether Muslims of Turkey, Indonesia, Nigeria or India, if India's Migrant Muhajir Muslims and their leaders talks like this when they visit here, as below. even after 60years+ of staying in Pakistan, this is how India's Migrants Muslims talk in India, the mother land

3rd; how democratic structure of India, having a "no-religious foundation", does any wrong with its minorities, which has been ruled by minorities quite frequently too? minorities PMs, Presidents, Generals, Chief Justice, Bollywood Super Star etc is know to whole world. and how does exactly Pakistan 'qualify' to speak in behalf of minorities of India, whether Muslims of Kashmir or of any other part of India? for example, if you talk about the Kurd Muslims of Turkey, they would simply kick your ash, isn't it? how have you become representative of Muslims of any part of world??????

4th; and if you want to discuss the circumstances of 1947, then why Pakistan hesitate to discuss about Baluchistan and "Republic of Jinnahpur". as Baluchistan wasn't Part of British India that you had occupied over it just after partition from India in 1947, while you got an Independent Islamic State of Pakistan after promising British rulers that you will be honest with the Muslims of any language, whether urdu speaking India's Migrant Muhajir or Bangla speaking East Pakistani Muslims, which is Bangladesh? hence if India's migrant Muslims demand a separate 'Republic of Jinnahpur', the they do have a point in front of today's British rulers too....... hence, why you want to create problems for India if you could never be able to solve your problems within?

5th; i personally favor to even forget the area, China had occupied from India by 1962, then why don't Pakistani Rulers also think to build the Pakistan they have within, for the people, including Baluchistan as its well part of Pakistan at present. we talk about Baluchistan as you want to discuss the circumstances of 1947, but we are generally not interested to discuss. then why don't you try to build your nation, as compare to create problem for neighboring nations. just accept POK as part of Pakistan similar to how West Punjab is part of Pakistan while East Punjab is in India, my own view. as more than 50% countries of world share the bordering regions with each others, including how Baluchistan is part of Iran and Pakistan both .......
(as support for Taliban in Afghanistan by Pakistani Military was never a secret, Osama Bin Laden was found well near Pakistani Military camp enjoying a luxury life. and even China facing import of terrorism to its Muslim populated Xinjiang state from the Pakistan based militants?)

6th; lastly, we do favor visiting visa for the Pakistani tourists, if they want to visit Kashmir for a tour, similarly how you visit Dubai etc. then why you won't try to think to solve the problems of this region, this part of world, as compare to make it bigger, for India, China, Iran and Afghanistan all of those around you?


=>

Uighurs and China's Xinjiang Region

XUAR (Xinxiang Uighur Autonomous Region), or East Turkistan, is a territory in western China that accounts for one-sixth of China's land and is home to about twenty million people from thirteen major ethnic groups, the largest of which (more than eight million) is the Uighurs [PRON: WEE-gurs], a predominantly Muslim community with ties to Central Asia. The Uyghur American Association (UAA) says that East Turkistan is a part of Central Asia, not of China.

In February 2012, at least a dozen people died after being attacked on the street by Muslims armed with knives near Kashgar, the western part of Xinxiang located near China's border with Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. After the Chinese government said the men involved had links to terrorists in Pakistan, a Chinese woman was also killed in Pakistan in what was considered a retaliatory attack. China claims the rioters were trained in Pakistan and has asked Pakistan to take "credible measures" to safeguard its citizens. XUAR shares borders with five Muslim countries--Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, and Pakistan--which seems to be a Chinese concern. The China-Pakistan relationship in particular has been strained by the recent killings, and questions about China's traditional friendship with Pakistan are rising.

Terrorism and Counterterrorism

During the 1990s, Uighur separatist groups in Xinjiang began frequent attacks against the Chinese government. The most famous of these groups was the ETIM, labeled as a terrorist organization by China, the United States, and the UN Security Council. China claims the group has links to al-Qaeda and says that they were trained in jihadi terror camps in Pakistan to launch attacks in Urumqi. Reports say Pakistani officials have also admitted that the militants in western China have ties to the Pakistani Taliban and other militants in northwestern Pakistani regions along the Afghan border. Pakistan, a close ally, has assured China of full support to contain terrorism in China. Concern about Uighur terrorism flared in August 2008--just days before the Beijing Olympics--when two men attacked a military police unit (NYT) in Xinjiang, killing sixteen.

Uighurs and China's Xinjiang Region - Council on Foreign Relations

Police reportedly have arrested five suspects in Lahore, Pakistan's second-largest city, for planning an attack at the home of a National Assembly member, using a suicide bomber-for-hire and explosives expert that they hired for just $15,000.

Suicide bomber available for sale in Pakistan, investigation reveals - NY Daily News

A Pakistani official, who spoke on the condition that he not be named because of the sensitive nature of the topic, said the going price for child bombers was $7,000 to $14,000 - huge sums in Pakistan, where per-capita income is about $2,600 a year.

EXCLUSIVE: Taliban buying children for suicide bombers - Washington Times

THE Difaa-i-Pakistan Council (DPC) has announced its aim of defending us against the dangers we face today.

But given the fact that the biggest threat to Pakistan comes from the extremist ideology of many of those who constitute the DPC, the question arises whether these holy warriors will confront the militants.
Don't hold your breath: during a recent DPC rally in Karachi, speaker after speaker made it clear that their real enemies are India and America. This assembled galaxy clearly failed to notice the uncomfortable fact that over the last decade, well over 30,000 innocent civilians and 5,000 security personnel have been killed in terrorist attacks launched by jihadi militants.Such mundane truths often escape our religious brigade. While focusing on American drone attacks, which while controversial, have been the most effective weapon against the militants in the tribal areas, they have conveniently overlooked the real cause of militancy. The moment these realities are pointed out to them, they go on about how these casualties are the result of the American war in Afghanistan.

Save us from our defenders - Newspaper - DAWN.COM

=>

Pakistan's blasphemy laws have left even judges in fear of their lives | Declan Walsh | Comment is free | The Guardian

 

[santosh10]

Let the Kashmir be an Independent Nation. Have a mercy on suffering human soul

@Usman

i dont have qualification/training on the arts subjects and my most of the learning is based on the questions people ask, and i search its answers....

and i expect you to say something on my last post#133. as i do think that enough i need to put in my last post to put stand of a single civilian like me on this crucial issue, as per the topic of this thread. even if im always worried to keep my post smaller, with more information......

thanks :thumb:

 

[UsmanWrites]

I don't know if Modi actually thinks this way, but if he does, its the best thing to have happened to India since independence. I agree that a stable Pakistan is NOT in India's interest. What do you guys do it you have a modicum of stability? Foment terror in Kashmir, you did in Punjab earlier (and failed), get bomb blasts to happen in Indian metropolitan cities - this is what you do.

It is best if Pakistan is unstable and constantly on the boil, mired in inter-religious and inter-sect strife, and inter-region fights. That is the best for India. Anyone who follows this policy has my vote.



Our textbooks don't even mention Pakis much, except in formal and terse tones. I have seen your textbooks though, and I know what Jihadi material is filled in there.

By the way, good that you accepted that your ancestors were Hindus. We don't get our information from our textbooks, but by interacting with brain-dead Pakis online. Most people don't know (or don't accept) that they are descendants of Hindus.

If Pakistan is destabilized then India can't maintain its stability. One need to realize that Pakistan and India are in same boat and if this ship is not going to be titanic then we must work in hand in hand to solve critical issues. Pakistan has abounded its old policies but modi is being stubborn this time

 

[UsmanWrites]

Thirdly, so far suffering goes, Sindhies, Baloch, Pakhtoons, tribals, Shias, Ahmadies. Malikis, Ismailies suffer more due to sectarian persecution and economic deprivation much more than Kashmiris.

Charity begins at home my dear friend.

It's not that minority in Pakistan is suffering and majority is safe. We all are suffering. In India only Kashmirs are suffering while the rest of India is dancing to the tunes of Bollywood

 

[UsmanWrites]

for example of even the leader of MQM, Mr Altaf Hussain, he does know why he is living in Britain for more than two decade. the leader of Indian Muslim migrants living in Pakistan, the leader of Muhazir Qaumi Movement, was never safe to live in Pakistan. bit more about him may be read as below :ranger:


]

He has imposed self exile on himself because he fear death at the hands of terrorists as most of our leaders do. Don't involve Pakistani establishment in this . Recently he requested PakistanI passport and he was granted the same

 

[UsmanWrites]

...

and if Pakistan wants to discuss the circumstances of 1947 Independence, including Kashmir, they first need to free Baluchistan which wasn't part of British India till 1947, and also they need to give rights to Indian Muslims migrants as below. as Pakistan promised a safe place for Muslims that time, the reason why British rulers were agreed for an "Independent Islamic State of Pakistan" :ranger:

=>

The Khan of Kalat who held sway over Balochistan annexed his state with Pakistan. Search for his son's statement on this on YouTube

 

[UsmanWrites]

Recently Bilawal Bhutto says that he will take single inch of Kashmir, so I have decided to solve Kashmir problem. Land rates and property rates inIndia are very high so this we should use for our advantage, so next time if you people ask Kashmir, we will use this to solve kashmir problem, let just you should buy Kashmir, total area is 700 crore sq. feet and ratein India is 15000 rupees /sq. feet so total amount came out to be 100 lakh crore .Now if you have this much money then buy , if you are thinking of buying then wait I forget that it dosen't include 10 % development tax, 11% property tax and 12 % VAT so total tax become 40 lakh crore which is 5 times your GDP. So basically Kashmir's TDS > Pakistan 's GDP and you want get loan from world bank also because for this you must required three years of bank statement and while looking at your balance sheet it looks more like piggy bank ststement

Bilawal Bhutto is not our leader

 

[Bangalorean]

If Pakistan is destabilized then India can't maintain its stability. One need to realize that Pakistan and India are in same boat and if this ship is not going to be titanic then we must work in hand in hand to solve critical issues. Pakistan has abounded its old policies but modi is being stubborn this time

No, you are wrong. We are going to call out your bluff this time. We can, and will maintain our stability irrespective of what happens in Pakistan. And not only will we maintain, we will keep growing and prospering. Economically, militarily, industrially - we will be among the top 5 nations within 7-10 years.

We will quarantine Pakistan. All we need are strong and tall walls. Our border fence (which India built at its own cost) is visible from outer space, FYI. And it has solved several problems which we used to have earlier - if the fence had been there in the 1980s, our Punjab problem would never have become so big.

So, all we'll do is electrify our border fence, build one more fence layer, have 24/7 tracking and monitoring through sophisticated systems, etc. etc. We will quarantine you. We have already done that partially, we will do it 100% soon. We will also seal the sea routes with a triple-layer defence cordon - there are many more things that can be done as we Indians grow richer and more and more tech-savvy.

And anyway, you guys are too busy killing each other - by the time you "purify" your land to the extent that you can begin to cause problems to India, your nation will not exist anymore.

 

[UsmanWrites]

Sigh! If only you would leave us to suffer that horrible self inflicted future in peace without the constant interference.
I know you're simply trying to bring our nation of misguided individuals to the paradisiacal era that the average Pakistani such as you lives in, we would have peace!

Average troglodytes are advised to develop a sense of sarcasm before reading the above reply.

No darling! We paid the price of having conservative leaders and you'll pay the similar price as you have set modi to lead