Pakistan begs 50 JF-17 charity; talks on for J20; China to launch satellite for Pak

pankaj nema

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This 50 JF 17 is just Bull shit .It is meant to please the pakistani population and nothing else

China cannot and will not antagonise USA because Chinese economic growth depends on the US market

If China really wanted to help Pakistan it would have IMMEDIATELY announced a 3 billion dollar cash assistance

Then US aid would have become irrelevant and Pakistan can openly REFUSE to cooperate on the Afghan war

But then US would retaliate with Additional import tariffs on Chinese goods
 

nimo_cn

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Relax, guys. You should be happy that China is sending 50 JF17s instead of 50 J10s to Pakistan. I don't understand why you people are making a fuss over it, it is so obvious that this is an old deal that was settled long time ago. That is why they are saying those planes can be delivered in weeks.
 

nimo_cn

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It only costs 15 million, what can we expect for that price? Seriously even if the Chinese artificial manipulate the cost of materials what can you get for that price? I am sure those LCD monitors in the JF-17 are meant to run Hindi movies when the pilot gets bored on long sorties towards Delhi!

With 15 Million a piece, do we expect composites,advanced Radars and Avionics? We signed 250 million deal for modernizing the engines of 60 Mig-29s which puts each engine cost at 4 million. If the Chinese buy the engine at 4 million a peace rest of the aircraft costs 11 million. For 11 million if you get some stickers and paint job done, i dont get where you get the rest of the stuff from!
An iphone4 which sells at the price of 600$ only costs 167$ in production.

If the 15 million is just production cost, it still can be a decent plane.
 

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Relax, guys. You should be happy that China is sending 50 JF17s instead of 50 J10s to Pakistan. I don't understand why you people are making a fuss over it, it is so obvious that this is an old deal that was settled long time ago. That is why they are saying those planes can be delivered in weeks.
My friend china is not such a foolish nation nor we think it is.

They only give those stuff which they will not need as charity , something like old clothes given for charity , even though its not torn its discarded.

right.
 

nimo_cn

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My friend china is not such a foolish nation nor we think it is.

They only give those stuff which they will not need as charity , something like old clothes given for charity , even though its not torn its discarded.

right.
Buddy, learn something about the history of JF-17. It is a plane specifically designed and researched for Pakistan.
 

p2prada

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Relax, guys. You should be happy that China is sending 50 JF17s instead of 50 J10s to Pakistan. I don't understand why you people are making a fuss over it, it is so obvious that this is an old deal that was settled long time ago. That is why they are saying those planes can be delivered in weeks.
Anything you give Pakistan is of consequence to us. If not then I am sure you don't mind the US supplying brand new F-16s to Taiwan in the near future.
 

sayareakd

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Buddy, learn something about the history of JF-17. It is a plane specifically designed and researched for Pakistan.
In 1986, China signed an agreement with Grumman to develop an upgrade/replacement for the J-7 known as the "Super 7". The program was cancelled in 1990, primarily due to worsening relations with the US following the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989. However, CAC kept the program alive by providing low-level funding from its own resources. After US sanctions were imposed on Pakistan in 1990, Pakistan also became interested in the project. In June 1999, Pakistan and China made an agreement to restart the program with Pakistan paying about 50% of the development costs. The project became known as JF-17 in Pakistan and FC-1 in China.

The first prototype was rolled out on 31 May 2003, conducted its first taxi trials on 1 July, and made its first flight on 24 August of the same year. The prototype 03 made its first flight in April 2004. On April 28 2006, the prototype 04 made its first flight with fully operational avionics. Serial production was expected to begin in June 2006 and the first 16 aircraft would be rolled out in early 2007. Serial production from 2007-2008 will be at an annual 10-15 planes per year while in 2008+ it will be at 25-30 planes per year.
Weapon and Technology: JF-17 Thunder
 

nimo_cn

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Anything you give Pakistan is of consequence to us. If not then I am sure you don't mind the US supplying brand new F-16s to Taiwan in the near future.
You still don't get the difference here. Taiwan is not a sovereign country but an integral part of China, US acknowledges that fact. Selling weapons to a region which is supposed to be the territory of another country is totally different from selling weapons to a sovereign country. We have no problem with US selling weapons to India which are going to be used against China.

You should be concerned, but someone seems a little desperate when posting, after all it is an old deal.
 

nimo_cn

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I don't get it, what are you trying to say? My contention remains that JF17 is a plane specifically designed and developed for Pakistan

The JF-17 was primarily developed to meet the requirements of the Pakistan Air Force for a cost-effective, modern,[6] multi-role combat aircraft as an inexpensive replacement for its large fleet of aging Nanchang A-5 bombers, Chengdu F-7 interceptors and Dassault Mirage III/5 fighters. It was also to have export potential to air forces of other countries as a cost-effective alternative to more expensive Western-origin fighters.[7][8][9]

CAC / PAC JF-17 Thunder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

sayareakd

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We think and support Tibet and Taiwan as sovereign country. even support Tibetan govt.
 

sayareakd

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I don't get it, what are you trying to say? My contention remains that JF17 is a plane specifically designed and developed for Pakistan
When pakistan was nowhere in picture it was chines project for PLAAF. It was cancelled project which was revived for Pakistan therefore your statement is not true.
 

nimo_cn

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We think and support Tibet and Taiwan as sovereign country. even support Tibetan govt.
Any discussion of these issues will further derail this thread, but I can assure you that I won't say anything about India selling weapons to Taiwan or Tibet if Indian government withdraws from its current official stance over Tibet and Taiwan.
 

p2prada

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You still don't get the difference here. Taiwan is not a sovereign country but an integral part of China, US acknowledges that fact. Selling weapons to a region which is supposed to be the territory of another country is totally different from selling weapons to a sovereign country. We have no problem with US selling weapons to India which are going to be used against China.

You should be concerned, but someone seems a little desperate when posting, after all it is an old deal.
This actually seems to be a new deal for direct supplies from China. Fly away models or knocked down kits can be debatable. But it seems this is a second contract for 50 aircraft over the first one.

It is fallacy to believe China has no problems with India's weapons buys and also that of Japan. All weapons purchases are of concern to it's neighbours. We aren't discussing the politics of the region. Perceptions did not prevent the US from delivering the first time to Taiwan.
 

nimo_cn

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When pakistan was nowhere in picture it was chines project for PLAAF. It was cancelled project which was revived for Pakistan therefore your statement is not true.

At that time, it was called Super 7 and that was 1989. If it was not to meet the requirement of PAF, I don't think the project was gonna be revived. Therefore, I am right by claiming JF17 to be a plane specifically designed and developed for Pakistan.

By the way, I don't think it is gonna take a person from an English speaking country much time to spell the word "Chinese", why not show us the due respect while engaging us?
 

sayareakd

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it is bit confusing if you look at the deal first it is not commercial deal it is charity from China to bankrupt Pakistan, which does not have any threat from anyone but instead it is threat to whole world with its export, harboring, training and protection to terrorists. Does PRC support this policy of Pakistan ???
 

p2prada

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When pakistan was nowhere in picture it was chines project for PLAAF. It was cancelled project which was revived for Pakistan therefore your statement is not true.
JF-17 is a Pak specific aircraft.

Both India and China have little or no interest in small single engined fighters anymore. We have large territories to defend and aircraft with 200-300Km combat radius is of little use compared to even an F-16 type aircraft. That's why China has shown no interest in JF-17 inductions. It is small and underpowered as compared to J-10 or F-16.

It falls only in PAF's requirements for an easy to maintain aircraft with good dog fighting capabilities and a possible BVR platform at medium ranges.
 

sayareakd

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At that time, it was called Super 7 and that was 1989. If it was not to meet the requirement of PAF, I don't think the project was gonna be revived. Therefore, I am right by claiming JF17 to be a plane specifically designed and developed for Pakistan.
I think you are confused or you dont want to understand the fact that if PLA AF dont want a fighter for their Airforce then they would have not started the project in first place, i have given you history of plane.


By the way, I don't think it is gonna take a person from an English speaking country much time to
spell the word "Chinese", why not show us the due respect while engaging us?
If typographical error result in disrespect to China, then it is too much to ask, further more in India we dont speak English, we have our local language(s), ofcourse we would like to do written work in English as it helps due to large number of languages.

No lets come back to topic.
 

nimo_cn

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This actually seems to be a new deal for direct supplies from China. Fly away models or knocked down kits can be debatable. But it seems this is a second contract for 50 aircraft over the first one.
Let's see how long it will take China to deliver all the planes, if it is a new deal, it takes a while to produce 50 planes.

My understanding is the high-profile announcement of this old deal is mainly a PR job to highlight Chinese resolution to protect Pakistan.

It is fallacy to believe China has no problems with India's weapons buys and also that of Japan. All weapons purchases are of concern to it's neighbours. We aren't discussing the politics of the region. Perceptions did not prevent the US from delivering the first time to Taiwan.
Sorry, I made a mistake by saying "we have no problem", I am gonna rephrase it to "we don't think US selling weapons to India is against the rules of the game, hence we will accept that move". The thing here is so many Indians seem to fail to understand what China is doing should be expected if not torelated, they are overreacting. Selling weapons to an ally is an acceptable strategy in this game, India is doing the same to China by providing weapons to Vietnam. And people should also note that China is only selling defensive weapons to Pakistan which pose little threat to Indian national security unless India is thinking attacking Pakistan.
 

SpArK

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So this Gilani guy went to Russia , got a go ahead with RD-33 engine then went to China and asking for 50 Junks ASAP.

Anyway it will take a minimum of 2 years to get hand on these.. This also means no J-10 anywhere near future for PAF too.
 

amitkriit

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What is the average IQ of policymakers in Pakistan? Were they born like this or the "education system" did this to them? They must learn from their long-lost brothers in east named "Bangladesh". Bangladesh spends just enough on military to feel safe, it works even though its surrounded by India on three sides and the other neighbor "Myanmar" is not a good neighbor either.
 

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