Osama Bin Laden was killed in Abbottabad, Pakistan

What do you think was Pakistan's role in Osama Bin Laden killing?

  • 1. US operation, ISI, Pak Army or Government did not know squat

    Votes: 100 62.5%
  • 2. US operation, Pak agencies were in the know, but did not play any role

    Votes: 7 4.4%
  • 3. US led operation with cooperation with active support from Pak

    Votes: 3 1.9%
  • 4. US led operation reluctantly supported by Pak

    Votes: 12 7.5%
  • 5. US operation, Pak agencies knew and were told to lay off or face consequences

    Votes: 33 20.6%
  • 6. US operation, Pak agencies knew and tried to put a spanner losing men, machines and face in the p

    Votes: 5 3.1%

  • Total voters
    160

SHASH2K2

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Pakistanis are back to what they are best at , ie behaving like an ostrich. accpting that there may be some rogue elements involved doesnt mean Pakistan can wash its hand . They are all part of Pakistan administration and are state actors. Its duty of pakistan to weed them out of system .No one in west will buy his logic.
 

Yusuf

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Pakistanis are back to what they are best at , ie behaving like an ostrich. accpting that there may be some rogue elements involved doesnt mean Pakistan can wash its hand . They are all part of Pakistan administration and are state actors. Its duty of pakistan to weed them out of system .No one in west will buy his logic.
I have the names of the rogue elements in ISI/PA.
1) Pervez Musharraf
2) Ashfaq Kiyani
3) Shuja Pasha

These are are the heads or head at some point during the last 10 years.
There are more names in the list. You just have to go to GHQ Rawalpindi and have a look at the names on the board to know who all.
 

AOE

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An interesting view on the subject:

 
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bhramos

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Rogue' elements in ISI, army may have helped Osama: Musharraf


WASHINGTON: Calling Pakistani intelligence's failure to detect Osama bin Laden's presence in Abbottabad a "massive slip-up," ex-President Pervez Musharraf has admitted that "rogue" members of ISI and military may have helped the al-Qaeda chief hide in plain sight in the garrison city.

Musharraf, who lives in Britain in self-exile, said the "rogue" lower-level members of the powerful ISI and military might have known about bin Laden's location during the last year of his presidency six years ago.

"It's really appalling that he was there and nobody knew. I'm certainly appalled that I didn't know and that intelligence people from that time onward didn't know for six years that he was inside.

"And there is no excuse for this great, massive slip-up. And an investigation is in order and people must be punished for this big lapse," Musharraf told ABC News.

As a policy, the army and ISI are fighting terrorism and extremism, including al-Qaida and Taliban, he said. "But rogue element within is a possibility," he said.

According to the former president, there were three attachment commanders in Abbottabad in the past six years and he could not imagine all three knowing and harbouring bin Laden.

"The possibility as I said, at the lower level, somebody following a policy of his own and violating the policy from above, is a possibility," he was quoted as saying.

Regardless of who knew what, according to Musharraf, was the fact that the US raid was a possible violation of Pakistan's sovereignty and that there was never a deal struck during his tenure to allow the US to make a unilateral attack on Pakistan's soil if bin Laden was found.

While calling the al-Qaida chief's six-year residence in Abbottabad a "big blunder" on the part of Pakistani intelligence, Musharraf warned the United States that if it continues to alienate Pakistan as it did in the bin Laden raid, the US will be the "loser."

"You want to alienate Pakistan, you will be a loser," he was quoted as saying.
this is another drama by mushi to be in politics and news paper headlines..........
 

bhramos

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well, his trusted advisers like kissinger had convinced him that India was a failure and won't last the decade because it would be balkanized (which is actually part of pakistan's founding beliefs). but their biggest mistake was to support the genocide in bangladesh by pakistan army, one of the largest since second world war. (est. 3 million killed and a further 10 million made refugees) c.f.e http://www.genocidebangladesh.org/

even the US consul in dhaka sent a strongly worded telegram to DC and lost his career for it. henry kissinger was convinced that pakistan had to be kept as US 'ally' at all costs in order to get china as an 'ally'. the famous 'blood telegram'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archer_Blood#The_Blood_telegram


thirty years on, pakistan is US 'ally' and its army is still playing the US for a sucker !
 

nitesh

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Pakistanis are back to what they are best at , ie behaving like an ostrich. accpting that there may be some rogue elements involved doesnt mean Pakistan can wash its hand . They are all part of Pakistan administration and are state actors. Its duty of pakistan to weed them out of system .No one in west will buy his logic.
So the logic should be, when a spy agency (read ISI) can not handle there rogue people ---> dismember it
As there parent agency (read PA) can not handle rouge agency -----> dismember it
As a state is not able to handle there rogue agencies------> dismember it

Every body lives a happy and prosperous life after that
 

Parthy

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I have few questions which is there at my mind for couple of days.... :confused:

1. Totally how many seals were involved in this operation?
2. How many helicopters (Stealth Black hawk) were used for operation? Is it two?
3. How did one of the chopper got crashed while reaching Osama's Den or while starting after the Covert operation?
4. Did the Chopper crash didn't had any casualties at the US side?

Anybody please help in answering above questions.. Thanks.. :hail:
 

bhramos

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So the logic should be, when a spy agency (read ISI) can not handle there rogue people ---> dismember it
As there parent agency (read PA) can not handle rouge agency -----> dismember it
As a state is not able to handle there rogue agencies------> dismember it

Every body lives a happy and prosperous life after that
Where do they live happily???
India!!!

no way we dont need that mess, let them go any where else......
 

nitesh

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Where do they live happily???
India!!!

no way we dont need that mess, let them go any where else......
Sorry forgot to add, for IA this time prepare to kill any one who tries to cross the border, we don't need these in humans here
 

Tolaha

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I have few questions which is there at my mind for couple of days.... :confused:

1. Totally how many seals were involved in this operation?
2. How many helicopters (Stealth Black hawk) were used for operation? Is it two?
3. How did one of the chopper got crashed while reaching Osama's Den or while starting after the Covert operation?
4. Did the Chopper crash didn't had any casualties at the US side?

Anybody please help in answering above questions.. Thanks.. :hail:
From what I've read so far:

1. Totally how many seals were involved in this operation?
Most reports say 2 dozen, while one article said 20 men. Ofcourse, these where the ones who landed inside the compound. There were supposed to be more men waiting to dash in, on 2 other helicopters, in case needed.

2. How many helicopters (Stealth Black hawk) were used for operation? Is it two?
Two involved in the operation, 2 more nearby. (Not sure if 'nearby' means hovering around or parked in some airbase)

3. How did one of the chopper got crashed while reaching Osama's Den or while starting after the Covert operation?
Initial reports said it was a target of ground fire from the compound. But later it was reported that it was a 'mechanical' failure.
The crash site was in the compound itself, so the operation must have been well underway.

4. Did the Chopper crash didn't had any casualties at the US side?
None reported so far.

Ofcourse, all this assuming that the reports coming out are not 'doctored'! :namaste:
 

Kunal Biswas

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I have few questions which is there at my mind for couple of days.... :confused:

1. Totally how many seals were involved in this operation?
2. How many helicopters (Stealth Black hawk) were used for operation? Is it two?
3. How did one of the chopper got crashed while reaching Osama's Den or while starting after the Covert operation?
4. Did the Chopper crash didn't had any casualties at the US side?

Anybody please help in answering above questions.. Thanks.. :hail:
1. The Number of men a Black hawk contain X by 2

2. Yes, two..

3. RPG is a possible explanation..

4. The Chopper`s Crew cabinet and Pilot`s Cockpit was totally destroyed, assuming two casualties, One Pilot another co-Pilot..


My Pleasure :)
 

Blackwater

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Latest is from Geo news 2 more helis possibly Chinook stayed in open field in Kala Dhaka 10 min from Abotabad and stays there till from 11 till mission ended as back up. Also US, F-16 and F-18 were airborned just in case if pak airforce engage but they did not detect Americans lollllll
 

Blackwater

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I have few questions which is there at my mind for couple of days.... :confused:

1. Totally how many seals were involved in this operation?
2. How many helicopters (Stealth Black hawk) were used for operation? Is it two?
3. How did one of the chopper got crashed while reaching Osama's Den or while starting after the Covert operation?
4. Did the Chopper crash didn't had any casualties at the US side?

Anybody please help in answering above questions.. Thanks.. :hail:
I can answer Q no 2, 3 and 4

2 black hawk stealth version+ 2 chinook parked in open field in kala dhaka 10 min from abotabad as reserve(Just saw on geo news, 12 may) + F 16 and F 18 from USAF were on air on afgan side just in case

answer 3) According to news discussion and article it was shot by stinger missile by osama bodygaurds..

answer 4) Thats a big Q for me too
 
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Tomcat

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the silent hawk had a hitch and was inopprable and thus the US SPECOPS Soilders blew it up
 

pmaitra

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I can answer Q no 2, 3 and 4

2 black hawk stealth version+ 2 chinook parked in open field in kala dhaka 10 min from abotabad as reserve(Just saw on geo news, 12 may) + F 16 and F 18 from USAF were on air on afgan side just in case

answer 3) According to news discussion and article it was shot by stinger missile by osama bodygaurds..

answer 4) Thats a big Q for me too
I don't think Pakistan used any Stingers against the helicopter. Otherwise, there would have been US casualties. There weren't any, unless we want to speculate that the US is framing things up.
 

bhramos

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Pakistan was lying to us,` says US lawmaker :NDtv

 
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SpArK

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Cooperation between ISI-CIA broken down: Gilani

KARACHI: Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, in an interview with Time Magazine, on Thursday revealed that cooperation between the CIA and its Pakistani counterpart, the ISI (Inter Services Intelligence), had broken down.

Gilani said that, continuing to work with the United States could imperil his government, unless Washington takes drastic steps to restore trust and win over 180 million Pakistanis.

Gilani warned that his government was accountable to an electorate increasingly hostile to the US. "I am not an army dictator, I'm a public figure," "If public opinion is against you [referring to his US allies] then I cannot resist it to stand with you. I have to go with public opinion."

The Prime Minister said that he was first alerted to the Abbottabad raid through a 2 a.m. call from Pakistan's Army Chief, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

Gilani then called his foreign secretary and asked him to demand an explanation from US Ambassador Cameron Munter. "I have not met or spoken to [US officials] since," he complained.

"Naturally, we wondered why they went unilaterally. If we're fighting a war together, we have to work together. Even if there was credible and actionable information, then we should have done it jointly," said Gilani.

"Whatever information we are receiving is from the media. Today, we have said that we want them to talk to us directly," Gilani further added.

Gilani acknowledges his abiding "difference of opinion" with Washington on how best to fight militancy. "From day one, my policy has been the three Ds: dialogue, development and deterrence," Gilani said.

"Military solutions cannot be permanent solutions. There has to be a political solution, some kind of exit strategy."

He said he didn't believe Washington was really going to cut aid. If it did, he said, "We'll cross that bridge when we come to it."

Gilani does, however, fear that a deteriorating relationship with Washington could hurt Pakistan's fight against domestic militancy. "When there's a trust deficit," he said, "there will be problems in intelligence sharing."

Asked about the reason for this trust deficit, Gilani replied tersely, "It's not from our side. Ask them." "Traditionally, the ISI worked with the CIA," he said. Now, "what we're seeing is that there's no level of trust."

Relations have deteriorated sharply since last November when the local CIA station chief was outed, allegedly by the ISI — a charge the agency denies. They hit a low point amid the standoff over Raymond Davis, a CIA contractor who killed two Pakistani men in a January incident and then claimed diplomatic immunity.

Further strain has been caused by the CIA's covert drone strikes against suspected militants in the tribal areas along the Afghan border.

Gilani says the drone war weakens his efforts to rally public support for the fight against extremism.

Still, Gilani said — for the first time, publicly — that he was open to renegotiating the terms of the CIA's program.

"A drone strategy can be worked out," Gilani said. "If drone strikes are effective, then we should evolve a common strategy to win over public opinion. Our position is that the technology should be transferred to us."

Still, he added, he would countenance a policy in which the CIA would continue to operate the drones "where they are used under our supervision."

Cooperation between ISI-CIA broken down: Gilani | Pakistan | DAWN.COM
:pound::pound:
 

Blackwater

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I don't think Pakistan used any Stingers against the helicopter. Otherwise, there would have been US casualties. There weren't any, unless we want to speculate that the US is framing things up.
First of all, i did't say pakistan fired stinger. I said osama bodygaurd fired stingers which i suppose al -qaida or taliban.They do got stingers my friend.

yes, there was Casuality from that chopper which USA will not reveal.
 

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