If Raja Raja Chola helped the Rajputs defeat Mahmud of Ghazni

Would Raja Raja Chola have defeated Ghazni ?


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pankaj nema

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Mark my words. Centuries later our future generations wold be cursing us to have understood the evil of Pakistan and Chinese hegemony in time and to have done something about it.
When we look at history from where we stand today, the advantage of hindsight easily allows us to preach "should have done this, should have done that".
But reality is - that we don't know in full detail what happened, how it happened, why it happened, why it couldn't be stopped. Only those who went through it, would know.
What we have is history written by victors in bits and pieces, with obvious biases in play.
Thats all I'm saying.


That is so contradictory. On one hand we say India was no single country and then the next moment we want Rajputs to defend it like it were so :D .. :tsk:
And you can relax you haven't hurt my feelings. We're debating decently :)
I think as far as Pakis and China are concerned we dont have any doubts about their
intentions

But yes our people do tend to FALL for glossy garbage like Aman ki Asha and Hindi Chini Bhai Bhai

But our enemies are so good they wake up us Indians in the nick of time

Our enemies just cant resist needling and provoking us or RATHER reminding us that
How evil they are

Secondly India was known as BHARAT VARSH right from the times of Pandavas

So there was a sort of cultural and religious affinity if not anything else

Any way I am NOT blaming Rajputs THEY have SACRIFICED immensely in all possible ways

AND undergone both hardships and humiliation but they did not convert en masse
and held out for several centuries

My only contention is the DISUNITY of Rajputs and how much that has cost India and Rajputs
themselves
 

Virendra

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Any way I am NOT blaming Rajputs THEY have SACRIFICED immensely in all possible ways
AND undergone both hardships and humiliation but they did not convert en masse and held out for several centuries

My only contention is the DISUNITY of Rajputs and how much that has cost India and Rajputs
themselves
You have to understand the Rajputs social and military structure for that. Will write something on it in my next post.
 

MAYURA

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Any way I am NOT blaming Rajputs THEY have SACRIFICED immensely in all possible ways

AND undergone both hardships and humiliation but they did not convert en masse
and held out for several centuries

My only contention is the DISUNITY of Rajputs and how much that has cost India and Rajputs
themselves

I second that.
 

civfanatic

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I think we all should thank the Rajputs of Rajasthan. Because even though they were not united as a single entity they stalled the Muslim advance into the greater Indian. Otherwise god only knows what might have happened.
Muslims ended up conquering virtually the whole of India anyway. Rajputs didn't exactly stop them. On the contrary, many of them were co-opted into the Mughal military combine and became partners in imperialism.
 

MAYURA

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Muslims ended up conquering virtually the whole of India anyway. Rajputs didn't exactly stop them. On the contrary, many of them were co-opted into the Mughal military combine and became partners in imperialism.
before akbar, there is no alliance between any muslim invader and a rajput ruler and since islam could conquer much of india only in 1311 ad some six centuries after its invasion in sindh and rajasthan, it is evident that they resisted them fiercely but after centuries of genocides perpetrated on them with grandfather of akbar raising their skulls as towers, they realized that they can not match muslims and so served them.

humiliating but truth is bitter.

apart from mewar, no house was independent .


but you must be aware that Aibak and iltutmish attacked madhya pradesh but before 1300 ad, the chandellas and parmaras were still ruling and issuing coins in malwa and bundelkhand region.
this was impressive but was disorganized.
 

HeinzGud

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Muslims ended up conquering virtually the whole of India anyway. Rajputs didn't exactly stop them. On the contrary, many of them were co-opted into the Mughal military combine and became partners in imperialism.
Well what about the 700-900 AD I was referring to that. But the point you raised is worth exploring.
 

Virendra

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Well what about the 700-900 AD I was referring to that. But the point you raised is worth exploring.
Rajputs had total resistance against all foreign powers (however deep they might have entrenched and settled) till the demise of Rana Sanga in 1527 A.D.
Even after that, for centuries further they had partial resistance against the Mughals. Even the ones who allied with Mughals had maintained local sovereignity in their internal affairs.
For Mughal and post Mughal periods; a comparison of how many mosques are found in Rajputana vis a vis the rest of India easily tells the sheet anchoring done by Rajputs in their own backyards even after accepting the Mughal imperial throne.
Needless to mention the houses that never bowed - Mewar and its vassals like Sirohi in Rajputana and even outside there were examples like bundela rajputs under the leadership of Maharaja Chhatrasal.

Regards,
Virendra
 

Virendra

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@Virendra @Singh @civfanatic

What is the % of Muslim rajputs ? IIRC they have a sizable population in Pakistan.
There is no such thing as muslim Rajputs.
Islam is monolithic, there are no castes and varnas, while Rajput (apabhramsa of 'Rajaputra') is a Hindu caste identity.
The moment you leave your ancient fold and join a monolithic religion like Islam, the caste born identity ceases to exist.
You're no longer a Rajput. You can either be a Rajput or a Muslim, not both at the same time.

Regards,
Virendra
 
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LurkerBaba

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There is no such thing as muslim Rajputs.
Islam is monolithic, there are no castes and varnas, while Rajput (apabhramsa of 'Rajaputra') is a Hindu caste identity.
The moment you leave your ancient fold and join a monolithic religion like Islam, the caste born identity ceases to exist.
You're no longer a Rajput. You can either be a Rajput or a Muslim, not both at the same time.
You know what I'm talking about :dude:
 

Singh

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There is no such thing as muslim Rajputs.
Islam is monolithic, there are no castes and varnas, while Rajput (apabhramsa of 'Rajaputra') is a Hindu caste identity.
The moment you leave your ancient fold and join a monolithic religion like Islam, the caste born identity ceases to exist.
You're no longer a Rajput. You can either be a Rajput or a Muslim, not both at the same time.

Regards,
Virendra
Rajput is also considered to be tribe/race/ethnic group by some.
And caste system is quite prevalent in the subcontinent, even amongst atheists.
 

Virendra

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Rajput is also considered to be tribe/race/ethnic group by some.
And caste system is quite prevalent in the subcontinent, even amongst atheists.
I couldn't care less of what the 'some' think. There is always an alter voice.
Things are how they are. I cannot present them in any simpler manner.
 

Singh

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I couldn't care less of what the 'some' think. There is always an alter voice.
Things are how they are. I cannot present them in any simpler manner.
You are free to disown them, but that doesn't prevent them from being proud of their Rajput origins.

Iirc there is a very famous folklore of Muslim rajputs breaking ranks from the Mughal army to come to the rescue of Hindu Rajputs (Maharana Pratap and Akbar?)
And then there are the Gautam Thakurs of UP.
 

LurkerBaba

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I couldn't care less of what the 'some' think. There is always an alter voice.
Things are how they are. I cannot present them in any simpler manner.
You are free to disown them, but that doesn't prevent them from being proud of their Rajput origins.

Iirc there is a very famous folklore of Muslim rajputs breaking ranks from the Mughal army to come to the rescue of Hindu Rajputs (Maharana Pratap and Akbar?)
And then there are the Gautam Thakurs of UP.
Another famous case is of Malkana Rajputs who followed a lot of Hindu customs even after conversion to Islam. There was rivalry between Arya Samaj and Ahmadis over who will convert/re-convert them.

IIRC Arya Samaj activist Swami Shraddhanand was killed because he re-converted loads of them
 

Virendra

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You are free to disown them, but that doesn't prevent them from being proud of their Rajput origins.
Rajput origins Yes. Rajputs even after converting to Islam? No

Iirc there is a very famous folklore of Muslim rajputs breaking ranks from the Mughal army to come to the rescue of Hindu Rajputs (Maharana Pratap and Akbar?)
Never heard of it. I know about the composition of both the armies at Haldighati. No such muslim Rajputs.
Let me tell you about what role religion played in those battles
While Rajput forces of both sides clashed with each other, the Mughal cavalry archers were told (on record) by their commander to encircle the mass of Rajput soldiers and shoot arrows at will.
As per the bigoted Al-Badauni, present at the battle, he asked Asaf Khan how their archers would distinguish between friendly and enemy Rajputs
His reply was -"whichever side a man falls, is a gain to Islam."
~Stephen P Rosen

Going further back, when the Turks had made inroads into India, the Mongols were under the process of Islamization.
Among all the Mongols in India there is not even a single example of Islamized Mongols under Turks, aiding the Mongols against Turks.
There are though incidents of anti Turk Mongols findinf refuge in Rajput forts.

Point being, once you've converted to Islam, nothing else merits higher than it. Whatever kind of Pagan/Infidel you might have been.
 

Virendra

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Another famous case is of Malkana Rajputs who followed a lot of Hindu customs even after conversion to Islam. There was rivalry between Arya Samaj and Ahmadis over who will convert/re-convert them.

IIRC Arya Samaj activist Swami Shraddhanand was killed because he re-converted loads of them
There are many such communities .. Mehrats etc. The Rajputs stopped marrying into them. Even though after conversion they were still sitting on the fence of both religions .. practicing the ways of both sides. Remained of none.
 

MAYURA

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Even after that, for centuries further they had partial resistance against the Mughals. Even the ones who allied with Mughals had maintained local sovereignity in their internal affairs.
While I do think that we should not have bowed before mughals, it was not that bad and acted as blessing in disguise.

take the case of assam invasion when Ram Singh ensured that jehadis after the win do not indulge in loot of women and wealth.
 

MAYURA

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here are though incidents of anti Turk Mongols findinf refuge in Rajput forts.
like those who found refuge in Hammirdeva of Ranathambore.
 

Virendra

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While I do think that we should not have bowed before mughals, it was not that bad and acted as blessing in disguise.

take the case of assam invasion when Ram Singh ensured that jehadis after the win do not indulge in loot of women and wealth.
That was also the case when Jai Singh and Jaswant Singh went into Deccan against Marathas, with Imperial (mix of Mughal & Rajput) armies.
It halted the otherwise ruthless juggernaut, the systematic conversions etc at least wherever the Rajputs could exercise their influence.

It is said that when Jaswant Singh died, Aurangzeb had rejoiced by saying "Darwza e Hind Kufra e Shikast' .. 'The door to defeat of Kafir India is open'.

I have heard that Marathas had planned to have Rajputana as the retreat passage for their women should the war with Abdali end badly.
Not sure of this one's accuracy though.
 

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