From the man who defeated Napoleon

If you're interested in primary research, read the Arthashastra. I posted the full book on the Military Strategy forum.

Not necessarily..they might have been an egalitarian society who didnt care much about the caste system or were probably isolated from the influence of it as they were not living in the fertile plains where the caste system thrived.

Moreover if by Hinduism you mean the worship of Shiva or Rama, then yeah..but if that also means worshipping sun (Surya), Indra, etc..then maybe no.

Mundas are not even Hindus. Their religion is 'Sarna' and is unrelated to any other religion in India. The Munda language family is also completely unrelated to any other Indian language, with its only distant relatives being some tribal languages in SE Asia. This suggests that the Mundas are the descendants of some of the earliest humans to arrive in India, who decided to stay in the subcontinent rather than move on to Southeast Asia (this was many millenia before agriculture, so populations were constantly on the move).

Ah, how primary is it; in English, then?

If they were so different, how did they co exist at the same areas at the same time?
Truth is, there is continuity in civilizational evidences at Indus-Sarasvati-Ganga range from before 6000 BC to after 1900 BC. The excavation findings of Indus valley era sites have Shaivic and Vishnu traits - both Vedic tradions.

I would call the vedic and indus valley guys from the same roots who lived in broadly the same belt but shifted their epicentre and social/infra structuring due to environmental changes posed by ecological factors and today came to be called as Indus valley people. Cultural changes are not denied but they aren't alien, they move from one tendency to the other.


Dr. Natwar Jha has provided an interpretation of the ancient script of the numerous recovered seals of the Indus Valley civilization. He has concluded that the Indus Valley seals, which are small soapstone, one-inch squares, exhibit a relation to the ancient form of Brahmi. He found words on the seals that come from the ancient Nighantu text, which is a glossary of Sanskrit compiled by the sage Yaksa that deals with words of subordinate Vedic texts. An account of Yaksa’s search for older Sanskrit words is found in the Shanti Parva of the Mahabharata. This may have been in relation to the Indus Valley seals and certainly shows its ancient Vedic connection.

You mean Urban people with little form of writing and Rural people with sophisticated texts that are difficult to even distort?
Indus valley sites were well developed even in 3100 BC.
Mehrgarh excavations of Indus valley sites have proven their antecedents to have gone back as early as 6000 BC and before.
Majority of Indus writing signs at seals etc. are identical to the one's of Brahmi scripts. Both have the same base and there is organic development between the two.
Seals in Indus bore dated 3100 BC have names of Vedic seers.

Horses were found in excavations at Indus valley sites as well as pre Indus civilization sites.
Aryan cities are mentioned in many verses of Rig Veda.
Bull is a symbol of Shaivistic traditions and many findings of excavations at Indus valley civilization sites like Lothal in Gujrat and Kalibangan in Rajasthan show not only Shaivite signs/remains but also have vedic fire altars, oxen, postherds, shell jewellery and other items lining to the vedic brahminic rituals.
Vedic people weren't nomadic as suggested by some. The vedas talk of Oceans and Ships on numerous ocassions. Vedic ancestors like Manu, Turvasha, Yadu and Bhujyu are flood figures, saved from across the sea.


Vedic civilization was spanned on what is known as Sapta-Sindhu. Seven ancient rivers from Indus in west to Ganga in east, with Sarasvati (found recently in Rajasthan) being the epicentre. Sarasvati hailed as as lifeline all through the Vedas is a known fact.

Majority of Indus valley civilization sites are to the east of Indus.
Sarasvati by the way is the host of most clustered Indus valley civilization settlements per recent decades archeological findings. What does that tell you?
Sarasvati is estimated to have started around 8000 BC. Its gradually falling health was discussed in Mahabharata (3138 BC) and Lord Balram's pilgrimage at Sarasvati bank sites too. Eventually the river disappeared between 1900 BC and 2200 BC.
There's evidence of ploughed agricultural fields revealed via excavation in Rajasthan sites at old as 2800 BC and there's an archeologically recorded earthquake at those sites during 2600 BC.
Earthquakes and other Tectonic activities are scientifically known to have changed river courses in past and present.
At places, there are settlements even at some part of the dried river bed of Sarasvati. Suggesting that as the river kept changing its course and kept drying, people changed settlements accordingly.


There's more to come and the disconnect would eventually melt away with further research & findings.

Regards,
Virendra

The idea that IV civilization and Vedic Aryans were the same finds support only in India among a few historians and of recently a handful of western historians. Most historians and archeologists in the world refute that.

That is the reason you find that even the NCERT text books do not support this idea. Infact NCEART history text books are a little ambiguous on this issue. But they seem to give the benefit of doubt to the theory that they were different people.
You would understand that history is a very sensitive subject. Certain uncomfortable truths can cause problems.
The Pakis say that IV people were ancestors of modern day Pakistanis. They say that their civilization is 5000 years old. Such propaganda happens every where.

I am a Tamilian and believe me a lot of Practices of the Harrappans are still followed among many castes in TN.
Unlike the Vedic Aryan practice some people still bury the dead just like the Harappans.There are a number of such practices that pre date Vedic religion and these traditions are the same as the ones followed by the IV people.

There have been only two instances of horse found during excavations. One was a terracota figure of a horse and the other was remains of a horse.That does not qualify as use of horse in a significant scale.

This is subject where I cannot expect to convince people with your perspective and you cannot do the same to people with my perspective

There is nothing wrong in acknowledging the truth. The truth is that there are differences. Different races, different cultures, different origins. Despite such differences the country can be united.

I don't mind differences. Differences could cleave between even the people same by all means and those differences do not prove anything on the origin. I can show you clans among Rajputs who do not even touch meat.
But then you're right that is not what is relevant today. What is more important is to know whether the similarity is enough to enable a harmonious co-existence like family.
Rest, we can leave the most controversial parts to further research of the scholars. Time will tell.

Regards,
Virendra

English translation of a classical Sanskrit text. The original text was was composed in the 3rd century B.C.E., and was influential in India until the 12th-13th centuries.

Good post

Yes, I found it and downloaded the PDFs.