My mother said in 30/4/1975, when people in Ha Noi heard the infomation of Victory, she saw the Indian, Cuban laughed, cheer, danced like this victory was of their country...
Till now, Vietnamese still keep their sympathetic, their love with Russian, Cuban and India... With Chinese, it's the junction of admiration, love and hate.
When Khmer Rouge continuos attacked South-west VN in 1977, killed over 30.000 VN people, VN reaction was just pushing Khmer to their land, again and again...
When Khmer Rouge had an all-out attack with a huge force of 19 divisions, Hanoi knew that if Pol Pot Regime still ruled Cambodia, VN would be attacked... That was the reason why VN invaded Cambodia...
With China, after 1975, Le Duan knew exactly what Chinese leader think, and how unsatisfied the Chinese leaders were with VN policy. Le Duan came to Beijing in 1976 to meet Mao, Mao did not meet him, told that he was tired. In 1978, after VN invasion of Cambodia, Pham Van Dong came to Beijing to meet Zhu Anlai, he was not welcome again, too...
(The detail oF these diplomatic afforts of VN like date, place, ... I wil give you later, I'm finding the documents about this)
Dear coccafedag, some points disagree with you.
Vietnamese invasion to Cambodia, are mostly not provoked by Cambodia invasion, the same reason Vietnam not like a war with China, but invited by Hun Sen, at that time Khmer Rouge was busy with a culture revolution style movement in side Cambodia, but the students did even too much than their teacher.
The relation ship got soured between China and Vietnam for many reasons, the main reason I think was that Vietnam chose to side with the Soviet, you know China had a border war with Soviet in 1969, Soviet armor divisions along China’s Xingjiang and inner Mongolia border gave too much pressure. China prepare a war with the Soviet, and moved many factories to the “third line area ” the south west mountainous places. The USA believed China can drift away from the Socialist block. And approached China in 1972. but Mao continued the culture revolution, not took the bait, until 1979, China established diplomatic relation ship with USA, since 1972 till Vietnam won the war, China not have any secret agreement with USA, only support Vietnam whole heatedly, the poor China give many things to Vietnam, and the Soviet supply line to you was through China, from the north most point of China to the south most ,right?
Zhou anlia died early 1976, and Mao died few months later in Sep, so Le Duan can not meet them when he visited China in 1976. After Mao died, the new leader Deng Xiaoping found out that China can not continue the so called socialist way, to save China, he went to USA in Jan1979, and after he came back, the China Vietnam war begin.
There are many Chinese fans in military forums, mostly very young students, so what they say, you don’t take them seriously. If Mao alive, the war will not fought, but even uncle Hu alive, this war still need to fight. China gained a lot from this war, but the pity is that the Soviet collapsed too early, if it can last for another 10years, China will be in a much better situation.
The relationship with Vietnam, in future will not easy, China is now the No. one enemy of the USA, India is at a very good position, but India never a good players, you looking back at the history, very suck, before the Soviet collapse, India sided with it, the USA give money and market to his friends all over the world in the 1960’s and 1970”, look at Japan and South Korea and the southeast countries, India not benefit at all, only the Soviet collapsed, begin to reform the economy, 10 years later than China. China is the commi dislike by all the developed countries, still a winner for the last 30years. Now India want to explore the south china sea, to get oil, the oil near the Vietnam shore, easy to get, Vietnam not like to share with India, the deep water explore, ok, cost money and not economic feasible so far, not understand if this the gesture to get favor from USA, or really want to play in the very hot south China sea, If Vietnam really think can be benefited cooperate with India, I believe your leader get degenerated.
Mr Deng is also good to Vietnam, at the beginning of the opening up and reform of China, nobody know what to do and how to do, this you can understand, the communist ideology not suitable for market economy, Dong’s theory was “no matter white cat or black cat, which catch the mouse is good cat”, the method is “ to touch under water stones across the river”, China touched the stones, Vietnam step on, we are now on the same way.
What the fvck is with the LOL, is it your over compensation for tiny **** syndrome? or you cant open your eyes?
Nope, India will take the oil in South China Sea, and ship it back home, you are not going to do jack shit! Want to bet?
In Hun Sen's memoir, he recalls how disapointed he was when many times Vietnamese leaders kept refusing his request for help to overthrow Pol Pot regime. They still hoped for a peace negotiation with Khmer Rouge. But the massacres in early 1978 changed their opinion.
Nowadays, looking at what is happening in Libya, I hope some days the world will remember that the UN, US and China did act very much differently with Khmer Rouge. And like someone said, bloodshed of Vietnamese troops was not caused only by the Khmer Rouge, but also by the UN, US and China.
More than other peoples, we - Vietnamese, understand how priceless the peace is, cos' we had experienced so many previous wars with 2 big Boss " France" with Dien Bien Phu Great Victory and "America" with 30-4-1975 Victory.
At 1979, Vietnamese are so tired of war, Vietnamese only want to be live in peace. Don't misunderstand that we are the bloody peoples, we fighted against the Chinese cos we are forced to do so and we invade the Cambodia just to drive back their invasion into our homeland.
Have you ever asked that in this world there are many highly developed nations, but no nations at this time come to save Cambodia from "Race Extermination", millions of innocent Cambodian were killed in a place so called "killing field", ( I wonder where is United Nations ???? ) except for the underdeveloped neighbor Vietnam.
I know there will be many other reasons for this action of Vietnam but what they did to save Cambodia should be recognized and respected...
In My War with the CIA , which was Sihanouk's first memoir, he refers to the repression of the left during his own regime as the work of "Lon Nol's raiding expeditions."
He also attempts to explain away his public statements regarding the leftists: "To throw my own dissenters - rightists such as Lon Nol - off the track, I occasionally made speeches attacking the Vietminh, Vietcong and Khmers Rouges. The first two realized that the main thing was my unswerving political, diplomatic and material support of their resistance struggle. But I did not know at the time that the Khmers Rouges had also understood this. The proof was their immediate acceptance of the alliance for resistance in 1970."
the real reason the Khmer Rouge immediately accepted his "alliance" was that they, like the Prince, understood the value of a marriage of expediancy. The Prince's name gave their movement a legitimacy that it would otherwise have lacked.
Still, although My War is very obviously a book with an agenda, there are times when Sihanouk's comments seem precisely on-target, as when he discusses Richard Nixon's comments on the invasion of Cambodia:
"President Nixon has explained that the 341 million dollars spent annually in the officially-approved slaughter of Cambodians is 'the best investment in foreign assistance that the United States has made in my political life'. Because of the 'success' of the Cambodian operation, 'US casualties have been cut by two thirds, a hundred thousand Americans have come home and more are doing so'. In other words, Lon Nol and Sirik Matak, by allowing Nixon to export the fighting from South Vietnam to Cambodia - to substitute Cambodian for American and South Vietnamese corpses - have rendered a valuable service, for which 341 million dollars is a reasonable annual reimbursement!"
Sihanouk goes on to quote George McGovern's rather astute assessment of the so-called "Nixon Doctrine": "We pay them for killing each other while we reduce our own forces."
From time to time there are telling glimpses into Sihanouk's true beliefs. Sihanouk notes that during the early Fifties he feared that "the Vietminh were fighting only to replace the French as masters in Cambodia." Having aligned himself with the Communists at the time of the book's publication, he naturally disavows this belief.
I found a point of view about the VN-China relationship at the time 1975-1979 of a very famous US diplomat - Henry Kissinger, in which the author described in detail the efforts of China to isolate VN and convinced the world that a "vilolent lesson" for VN was nessesaty...
Something maybe right, something maybe not, but I guess we have some interest informations... http://viet-studies.info/kinhte/Kiss...na_Vietnam.pdf
@to you all:
We VN, you Chinese, you Indian... I know, we are all patriots. And I know that no one of us like hearing bad recognition of our country's history. But, you know, no one of us agree completely with our leader's policy in the past, no one satisfy with one-way informations from our goverments. That's the reason why we joined this forum and this topic. And I hope that we will share our informations and point of view with the respect, openess... And thank you all for that...
@ to DMF:
I am very sorry about my mistake... (I occasionally I am wrong between Zhou Enlai and Xiaoping). In 24-9-1975, Le Duan came to Beijing to meet Mao, but he didn't welcome Le Duan, said that he was tired, Mao died one year later. Duan had a meeting with Dong Xiaoping, in that meeting Le Duan referred about Khmer invasion of Tho Chu island and Phu Quoc island, and the sovereignty of VN in Paracel Island... Dong ignored those, and prompted VN about social and economic reforms, the rights of Chinese Vietnamese... That meeting had no result.
In April, 1977, Pham Van Dong came to Beijing again, to meet Dong Xiaoping... We was'nt welcomed by Dong, too. Pham Van Dong gave a message to Dong about the invasion of Khmer Rouge, and again the sovereignty of VN in Paracel Island. Dong did not answer. He said he was very unpleasant with Le Duan, and said that problem was not valuable to negotiate....
I would like to give you some ancient proverb of Vietnamese:
- "Sell away brothers, buy near neighborings"
- "Away water can not save near fire"...
That's the VN point of view in relationship, it's very intersting to think twice...
You said "China gained a lot from this war, but the pity is that the Soviet collapsed too early, if it can last for another 10years, China will be in a much better situation." I completely agree with you this this point. Actualy, some countries had a lot of benefits from the wars of VN, like Thailand, Phillipines and especialy South Korea, it's sad, but it's true.
And I agree with you "China touched the stones, Vietnam step on, we are now on the same way". Yes, as I said, VN learnt a lot of Chinese way of growing economy and metropolis managements.