First plane made by an Indian

[ghost]

MUMBAI: As the roar of the engines of the Air Force jets died down when the air show ended on Sunday, there were a few whose thoughts went back to the first flight of a plane at the very Chowpatty beach over which the air show was held.

In 1895 an Indian pioneer flew what is said to be the first Indian plane in the air. The centenary year of the first successful flight, by the Wright brothers, was celebrated from December 17, 2003. But our own pioneer from Mumbai, Shivkar Bapuji Talpade, made an aircraft and had flown it eight years earlier. One of Talpade's students, P Satwelkar, has chronicled that his craft called 'Marutsakha'(Friend of the Winds) flew unmanned for a few minutes and came down.

Talpade belonged to the Pathare Prabhu community, one of the founder of Mumbai. According to aviation historians Mr Talpade used his knowledge of the Rig Vedas to build a plane. Orville and Wilbert Wright accomplished their feat in California on December 17,1903. Their flight lasted for 37 seconds.

The Wright brothers based the design of their aircraft by studying bird movements. Mr Talpade used the principle of solar energy combined with mercury to design his plane.

Pratap Velkar, in his book on the Pathare Prabhu community, says that Mr Talpade also studied the achievements of aviation pioneers like Alva Edison who flew in a balloon and survived a mishap in 1880. Mr Talpade's study included the experiment of machine gun inventor Hiram Maxim who propelled his steam plane down a slope. It did not take off for technical reasons.

In 1896 Samuel Langley's steam balloon flew at a height of 100 feet and a three quarters of a mile. Then came the famous Zeppelin 1900 which successfully flew at a height of 1100 feet after three attempts in Germany.

The first breakthrough in flying was made by a Brazlian, Santos D'Monte. He made 14 planes between 1901 and 1904 in his country. And he flew them himself. Many believe that Santos was the first successful flier and not the Wright Brothers.
According to Mr Velkar, Mr Talpade studied these flights which inspired him to make an aircraft and fly. Mr Talpade was staying at what is today Nagindas Shah Marg in Girgaum in the bustling heart of Mumbai. The frame of the historic plane was gathering dust at his house after his death. One of his nieces, Roshan Talpade, has been quoted by Mr Velkar's book saying the family used to sit in the aircraft's frame and imagine they were flying. At a recent exhibition on flying at Vile Parle, a model of 'Marutsakha' was exhibited.

Mr Velkar regrets that Mr Talpade's plane has not found a place in the aviation museum at Nehru Centre, nor is there a memorial to his feat at Chowpatty.

However some documents relating to his experiment have been preserved at the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited in Bangalore.


At an aeronautical conference in Chennai Talpade's flight was discussed by foreign delegates. D H Bedekar, one-time principal defence scientific officer, has said Mr Talpade's plane for some technical reasons failed to operate to its full design limits.

Talpade wanted to unravel the mystery with further experiments. He even made an appeal for funds some Rs 50,000 at a public meeting in Ahmedabad he had addressed. But to no avail. As his biographer,Professor Kelkar, wrote: "His efforts crashed like a bird whose wings are slashed."

In contrast the US army donated 25,000 dollars to the Wright brothers to pursue their feat. In turn the brothers' invention redefined how the US fought its wars.

Alas, as planes zoomed over Chowpatty on Sunday nothing was recounted about an Indian visionary whose flight of fancy remains in the throes of anonymity.

@jouni sir,

As I pointed out earlier,money for research is the main reason for lack of new invention in India.


A flight over Chowpatty that made history - The Times of India

 

[Peter]

@ghost
I checked out a few sources like Wikipedia.

The flight by Shivkar Bapuji Talpade has been disputed by the guys at Indian Statistical Institute,Bangalore.
Shivkar Bapuji Talpade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Talpade is supposed to have constructed Marutsakhā under the guidance of Pandit Subbarāya Shāstry. However, according to a study by researchers at the Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore,[3] it is not possible to construct such a flying machine. Moreover, contemporary accounts of a successful flight or evidences of such an achievement are scarce and the technical feasibility is highly dubious. Shāstry was the author of the Vaimānika Shāstra, an early 20th-century Sanskrit text on aeronautics supposedly obtained by Vedic studies and automatic writing. Marutsakhā may have been constructed based on Vimāna, mythological flying machines from Vedic literature. This is suggested by D. K. Kanjilal's 1985 Vimana in Ancient India: Aeroplanes Or Flying Machines in Ancient India, as well as reports contemporary to Talpade in the Marāthi-language newspaper Kesari.[5] One of Talpade's students, Pt. S. D. Satawlekar, wrote that Marutsakhā sustained flight for a few minutes.[6] Deccan Herald in 2003 stated "scholarly audience headed by a famous Indian judge and a nationalist, Mahadeva Govin-da Ranade and H H Sayaji Rao Gaekwad, respectively, had the good fortune to see the unmanned aircraft named as 'Marutsakthi' take off, fly to a height of 1500 feet and then fall down to earth"".[7] The presence of Mahadev Govind Ranade and Sayajirao Gaekwad III during the flight is also cited in "Annals of the Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute".[8] A former Indian defense officer stated in 2004 that Marutsakhā failed to operate to its full design limits due to technical reasons

http://cgpl.iisc.ernet.in/site/Port...l/ACriticalStudyOfTheWorkVaimanikaShastra.pdf


Read the above pdf. It is interesting.

 

[Peter]

A few excerpts form the ISI(indian Statistical Institute,Bangalore) pdf.
http://cgpl.iisc.ernet.in/site/Port...l/ACriticalStudyOfTheWorkVaimanikaShastra.pdf

SHAKUNA VIMANA

2.2a General – As the name
suggests, this vimana (plane) is like
a bird. It is supposed to contain the
following parts: Peetha (floor
board), hollow mast, three
wheeled keelakas (hinges) with
holes, four heaters, air suction
pipes, water jacket, oil tank,
shakuna yantra, two wings, tail
portion to enable the vimana to fly,
owshyamaka yantra or heat
engine, etc.
It has several tiers, each one
containing different yantras
(machines). The drawings show
parts like cylinder, piston worm
gear, and pumps which seem
entirely modern (beyond 18th
century).

2.2b Principles – A few lines have
been devoted to the function of
wings and tail and they appear to
be incorrect. From what is given in
the following verses:
iÉjÉæuÉ uÉÉiÉmÉÉrÉl§ÉÉå ÌSYmÉëSzÉïkuÉeÉxiÉrÉÉ |
mÉzcÉÉcNûMÑülxrxlÉç§ÉÉ¶É iÉimɤɲrÉqÉåuÉ cÉ ||
ÌuÉqÉÉlÉÉåimÉå¤ÉhÉÉjÉï iÉimÉÑcdpÉÉaÉxiÉrÉæuÉ ÌWû |
iÉiÉÉå ÌuÉqÉÉlÉxÉgcÉÉUMüÉUhÉÉæwqrÉMürÉl§ÉMü: ||
It appears that great importance is
given to the tail portion for the
generation of lift. Also the function
of the hinge wings becomes
unclear in this context. It may be
noted that it is the wings which
should contribute to the life of the
craft and the tail portion to its
controllability.

2.2c Geometry – The height and
width of the craft, in our opinion,
are in such proportion as to put its
stability in serious question. There
are inconsistencies in the
dimensions mentioned in themÉÏOûÉå¦ÉlrÉÇ ÌuÉiÉxiÉÏlÉÉqÉzÉÏÌiÉËUÌiÉ uÉÍhÉïiÉÇ |
mÉOèmÉgcÉÉzÉ̲iÉxiÉÏlÉÉqÉÉrÉÉqÉÇ cÉ iÉjÉæuÉ ÌWû ||
Here the dimensions are as follows.
The floor board height is 80 feet; its
width and length are 56 feet each.
The latter dimensions are different
in the drawings, being 80 and 25
feet respectively. In the verses,
'vitasti' is used as a unit of length
while in the drawings 'foot' is
adopted. The value of vitasti varies
from 9 inches to a foot depending
upon the situation in which the
term is used. Here it appears as
though vitasti has been equated to
a foot at all places.-

2.2d Operational data – There are
no statements on the capabilities
of this craft.--

2.2e Materials – There is mention
of a number of materials. The floor
board is made of 'raja loha'. This
material, supposedly, is to be made
from 'prana kshara' (ammonium
chloride), Bengal gram, benzoin,
mercury borax, mica, silver, and
'panchamrita'(!), all mixed, heated
to 800 'kaksha' (unit of
temperature), and poured out.
There is a number of other
materials described herein

2.2f Comments – It must be
pointed out here that the essential
idea of flying like a bird has been
tried by many people (abroad) over
several centuries right from the
time of Leonardo"da"Vinci, but
without any success whatever.
Hence the feasibility of a craft of
the above type is a near
impossibility. Furthermore, the
author – whoever he be – shows a
complete lack of understanding of
the dynamics of the flight of
heavier"than"air craft.

 

[Dovah]

MUMBAI: As the roar of the engines of the Air Force jets died down when the air show ended on Sunday, there were a few whose thoughts went back to the first flight of a plane at the very Chowpatty beach over which the air show was held.

In 1895 an Indian pioneer flew what is said to be the first Indian plane in the air. The centenary year of the first successful flight, by the Wright brothers, was celebrated from December 17, 2003. But our own pioneer from Mumbai, Shivkar Bapuji Talpade, made an aircraft and had flown it eight years earlier. One of Talpade's students, P Satwelkar, has chronicled that his craft called 'Marutsakha'(Friend of the Winds) flew unmanned for a few minutes and came down.

Talpade belonged to the Pathare Prabhu community, one of the founder of Mumbai. According to aviation historians Mr Talpade used his knowledge of the Rig Vedas to build a plane. Orville and Wilbert Wright accomplished their feat in California on December 17,1903. Their flight lasted for 37 seconds.

The Wright brothers based the design of their aircraft by studying bird movements. Mr Talpade used the principle of solar energy combined with mercury to design his plane.

Pratap Velkar, in his book on the Pathare Prabhu community, says that Mr Talpade also studied the achievements of aviation pioneers like Alva Edison who flew in a balloon and survived a mishap in 1880. Mr Talpade's study included the experiment of machine gun inventor Hiram Maxim who propelled his steam plane down a slope. It did not take off for technical reasons.

In 1896 Samuel Langley's steam balloon flew at a height of 100 feet and a three quarters of a mile. Then came the famous Zeppelin 1900 which successfully flew at a height of 1100 feet after three attempts in Germany.

The first breakthrough in flying was made by a Brazlian, Santos D'Monte. He made 14 planes between 1901 and 1904 in his country. And he flew them himself. Many believe that Santos was the first successful flier and not the Wright Brothers.
According to Mr Velkar, Mr Talpade studied these flights which inspired him to make an aircraft and fly. Mr Talpade was staying at what is today Nagindas Shah Marg in Girgaum in the bustling heart of Mumbai. The frame of the historic plane was gathering dust at his house after his death. One of his nieces, Roshan Talpade, has been quoted by Mr Velkar's book saying the family used to sit in the aircraft's frame and imagine they were flying. At a recent exhibition on flying at Vile Parle, a model of 'Marutsakha' was exhibited.

Mr Velkar regrets that Mr Talpade's plane has not found a place in the aviation museum at Nehru Centre, nor is there a memorial to his feat at Chowpatty.

However some documents relating to his experiment have been preserved at the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited in Bangalore.


At an aeronautical conference in Chennai Talpade's flight was discussed by foreign delegates. D H Bedekar, one-time principal defence scientific officer, has said Mr Talpade's plane for some technical reasons failed to operate to its full design limits.

Talpade wanted to unravel the mystery with further experiments. He even made an appeal for funds some Rs 50,000 at a public meeting in Ahmedabad he had addressed. But to no avail. As his biographer,Professor Kelkar, wrote: "His efforts crashed like a bird whose wings are slashed."

In contrast the US army donated 25,000 dollars to the Wright brothers to pursue their feat. In turn the brothers' invention redefined how the US fought its wars.

Alas, as planes zoomed over Chowpatty on Sunday nothing was recounted about an Indian visionary whose flight of fancy remains in the throes of anonymity.

@jouni sir,

As I pointed out earlier,money for research is the main reason for lack of new invention in India.


A flight over Chowpatty that made history - The Times of India

It's not the lack of money. Give an Indian some cash, he is more likely to put it in a bank than invest it in a startup.

India does not have a consumerist mentality and we do not like to take risks.

 

[Peter]

From that pdf,

Shastriji was born in a small
village in Hosur Taluk (Madras
State) and got married at the age
of eight. His parents died a few
years later and he was forced to
support the large family, including
brothers and sisters, virtually by
begging. Subsequently, he went to
stay with his father"in"law, but
soon had to leave with his brothers
and sisters, looking for alms at
other towns. Thereafter, things got
worse. Sometime later, his sisters
and one of his three brothers died
of small"pox. He himself got such a
severe attack that he no longer
could move or use his own hands.
His brothers perforce had to leave
him to himself and move away. He
had to live on grass and- - other
leaves, like and animal, for a period
of time. He then came to an area
near Kolar (Karnataka) in a most
pitiable state. It is stated that there
he met a great saint, referred to as
Guruji Maharaj in the text. Thissaint cured him of his terrible
disease, initiated him into
spirituality and revealed to him
secrets of many shastras like
Vimana Shastra, Bhautik Kala Nidhi,
Jala Tantra, etc. in a cave.
Later on, Shastriji came back to
Anekal and settled down with his
wife to a quiet life. Circumstances
forced him to adopt Shri
Venkatarama Shastry as his son.
Because of innate spirituality and
mysticism, he came to influence
many people, some wise, some
rich, and some both. He then made
several trips to Bombay and
dictated Parts of Vimana Shastra
there. He had the drawings (of
aircraft) made sometime between
1900 and 1919 by someone called
Ellappa who was a draughtsman in
a local engineering college at the
time.Shastriji had no formal training
(for schooling) of any kind. He
learnt to read and write Telugu and
Kannada scripts only when he came
back after meeting Guruji Maharaj.
His early boyhood and youth were
spent in braving some of the worst
calamities that can befall a man.
What appears strange in the
whole matter is that Pandit
Subbaraya Shastry, who apparently
was not a 'pnadit' in anyordinary
sense, dictated a work and
nowhere in it did his name appear.
Also, it was written as though
Maharshi Bhadadwaja were its
author. Any possible fraud in the
matter, in our opinion, is out of--
the question since Shastriji was
known for- - his utter simplicity,
humble and unpretentious nature.
It is also stated in his
autobiography that he was unsure
of the practicality of the ideas
propounded in Vymanika Shastra.
(The theory itself is highly unsound
in our view). Also stated one lateDr. Talpade (of Bombay) tried to
make models under the guidance
of Shastriji, but that he was not
successful in making any of then
fly.

 

[Peter]

It's not the lack of money. Give an Indian some cash, he is more likely to put it in a bank than invest it in a startup.

India does not have a consumerist mentality and we do not like to take risks.

@Dovah There are doubts whether his craft flew at all. Look at the Indian Statistical institute pdf.

 

[Peter]

Finally here`s what the pundits at the Indian Statistical Institute,Bangalore have to say about Talpade
http://cgpl.iisc.ernet.in/site/Port...l/ACriticalStudyOfTheWorkVaimanikaShastra.pdf

3. General Comments and
Conclusions
Any reader by now would have
concluded the obvious – that the
planes described above are the
best poor concoctions, rather than
expressions of something real.
None of the planes has properties
or capabilities of being flown; the--
geometries are unimaginably
horrendous from the point of view
of flying; and the principles of
propulsion make then resist rather
than assist flying.
The text and the drawings do not
correlate with each other even
thematically. The drawings
definitely point to a knowledge of
modern machinery. This can be
explained on the basis of the fact
that Shri Ellappa who made the
drawings was in a local engineering
college and was thus familiar with
names and details of some
machinery. Of course the text
retains a structure in language and
content from which its 'recent
nature' cannot be asserted. We
must hasten to point out that this
does not imply an oriental nature
of the text at all.- -All that may be
said is that thematically the
drawings ought to be ruled out of
discussion. And the text, as it
stands, is incomplete and
ambiguous by itself and incorrect
at many places.

 

[Dovah]

@Dovah There are doubts whether his craft flew at all. Look at the Indian Statistical institute pdf.

I've read this thing. But I am not sure what to make of it. Generally I ignre achievements of the past that did not materialize.

 

[Peter]

I've read this thing. But I am not sure what to make of it. Generally I ignre achievements of the past that did not materialize.

Plainly speaking, they dismiss Talpade`s work as fiction. However they do acknowledge that Indians had an astounding knowledge of iron,copper and other stuff during ancient times.

 

[ghost]

It's not the lack of money. Give an Indian some cash, he is more likely to put it in a bank than invest it in a startup.

India does not have a consumerist mentality and we do not like to take risks.

Sir,

I was talking about the budding researchers and scientist who are not able to take their research further due to lack of fund ,grant and financial assistance .

Regarding general Indians ,I agree,but it might be because being a poor country not much wealth was at disposal of an individual.So he had to set priorities , family being the topmost priority people like to save for a secured future.

But as income level are rising , people have more wealth at their disposal.Indians have started to develop consumerist mentality , as we become more wealthier risk taking will see an increase,it will take some time ,as old habits take time to change.


@Peter thanks for the info:thumb:

 

[jouni]

I wish you better luck with TEJAS than this unfortunate effort.

 

[CrYsIs]

I wish you better luck with TEJAS than this unfortunate effort.

How so ?

10char