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Modern artillery and tactical missiles

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    Defence Professionals Akim's Avatar
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    Modern artillery and tactical missiles

    I looked over streams on a for Section "Land Forces",and saw that such his not theme - "Artillery". But this is a very important component of the Armed Forces, which here is not discussed. A permanent squabble goes, what tank is better, but practically there is not information about "God of war". Is there the future at the towed artillery? Why NATO refused caliber of cannons, less than 155-mm? Can whether replace MLRS - tactical missiles? What undercarriage better, wheeled or tracks? Station ground reconnaissance and automatic control a fire and etc....


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    Regular Member The Fox's Avatar
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    Re: Modern artillery and tactical missiles

    India Tests New Tactical Missile
    NEW DELHI - India has tested a little-known tactical missile, the Prahaar, which it says is comparable to the U.S. Army Tactical Missile.

    "The test-firing was conducted successfully at 0820 hours on Thursday. Prahaar has the capability to strike targets at 150 kilometers," said an official of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), which has developed the missile.

    An Indian Army official said the Prahaar is like an artillery rocket that can be effective as a battlefield support system and can carry multiple payloads. A unique feature of the system is that in one salvo, six missiles can be fired at multiple targets in all directions.

    The 7.3-meter-long missile with a 420mm diameter weighs 1,280 kilograms and can reach a height of 35 kilometers before striking its target at 150 kilometers distant in four minutes and 10 seconds, the DRDO official said.

    The main advantage of the Prahaar missile is that it is powered by solid fuel, and as such is easier to transport. It can be readied for launch in two to three minutes.

    "Prahaar can fill the gap between the homemade Pinaka multirocket launcher with a range of 40 kilometers and the homemade ballistic Prithvi with a range of 250 kilometers," said the Army official, adding that the missile can be used to take out tactical and strategic targets.

    India Tests New Tactical Missile | Defense News | defensenews.com
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    Regular Member The Fox's Avatar
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    Re: Modern artillery and tactical missiles

    DRDO, Army working on futuristic artillery gun

    New Delhi: That the Indian Army's artillery regiments are in desperate need of a makeover is well known. But the process of modernisation and upgrade has moved at a glacial pace. The only new weapon in sight is the M777 light howitzer which has been cleared for procurement from BAE Systems in the US. The DRDO has now stepped in, reviving an old artillery project that had been shut down some years ago owing to the Army's lack of interest in an indigenous project.
    Working this time with the Army's full backing, the DRDO has begun work on a new 155mm 45-calibre gun that could take a decade to develop and field. Dr S Sundaresh, head of the team for the new artillery project, said in an exclusive interview to CNN-IBN that the gun would comprise certain high-end technologies that could require a foreign collaborator.
    ON THE NEW GUN

    We are proposing to develop a futuristic gun in consultation with the Army. We are in dialogue with the Army for some of the new technologies we are proposing to introduce into this gun, for example a special coating for the barrel to enhance its life, the smart recoil system with rheological fluid or an electrical drive to elevate and traverse the gun. We are in dialogue with the Army to finalise the Preliminary Staff Qualitative Requirements (PSQR) hopefully in the next couple of months. We have already started design work and will modify the design to suit the PSQR.
    Since these are new technologies, we expect in about four to five years time we should be ready with a prototype for user trials, followed by summer and winter trials. Production could commence in about nine to 10 years' time. So the development cycle is 5-7 years including evaluation by the Army.
    ON NEW TECHNOLOGIES
    We want to try new technology in the area of recoil. The standard recoil systems are hydro-pneumatic but we are looking at an electro rheological liquid which has adaptive viscosity characteristics. So it will have adaptive damping, you will get a smooth consistent recoil no matter what the weight of the shell and what range you are firing at. That makes for a more reliable recoil system. The PSQRs demand new technology such as barrel coating. So the plan is to first build the barrel using current technologies and then try coating. Once that barrel development technology has matured, we can add new technologies and improve its performance. A number of foreign firms are willing to offer the coating technology. We are in dialogue but nothing has been firmed up yet. In order to cut down on time, we may get the technology from abroad, especially about the barrel coating and the recoilless system.
    ON TANK GUNS VS ARTILLERY GUNS
    Basically, both tanks and non-rocket artillery have rifled guns but when you look at the length of the barrel, the artillery gun barrels are much longer than tank barrels. The artillery shell is heavier, so the force of recoil is heavier. Accordingly, you require a proper recoil mechanism and a muzzle brake system.
    ON LONE RANGER EFFORT
    Nobody else in the world is developing a new gun. BAE Systems Bofors, Denel and Singapore Technologies have developed technologies for the guns they built. Nexter of France has also done the same but no serious development is taking place in terms of new guns. All guns are being produced with existing technology, so we will be the only country taking up this development. We have a large requirement and even if we take up development today, we can meet our requirements 10 years from now for a state-of-the-art gun system.
    The Ordnance Factory Board is working on a gun based on the ToT documents received from Bofors. So they will be building a 155mm 39-calibre gun as well as a 155mm 45-calibre one. DRDO is helping them with the 45-calibre barrel design and external ballistics.
    ON SELF PROPELLED GUNS
    Self propelled guns are now at the RFP stage and we have teamed up with BEML for the Army tender. BEML is taking the turret from the Czech firm Zusana and the same will be integrated on the Arjun tank chassis. Hopefully trials will commence within a year.
    indian army artillery guns

    India-made artillery guns to be ready soon
    New Delhi: Two types of indigenously manufactured howitzers for the Indian Army will be ready for trials by December 2012 and by June 2013, Government told the Rajya Sabha on Wednesday.
    In a written reply to the House, Defence Minister AK Antony said, "As per the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) decision of October 2011, Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) is to manufacture 155mm howitzers." The OFBs have been asked to manufacture "two prototypes of 155mm/39 calibre FH-77-B02 guns" and the "upgraded version of 155 mm/45 calibre howitzers guns", he said.
    On timelines for trials of these indigenous guns, Antony said that the two prototypes of 155mm/39 calibre howitzers will be ready by December 2012, followed by two samples of the upgraded 155mm/45 calibre guns by June 2013.

    On Transfer of Technology (ToT) with the Swedish firm which supplied the 155mm/39 calibre Bofors guns, Antony said, "India had entered into license agreement with AB Bofors, Sweden for indigenous manufacture of 155mm/39 calibre FH-77-B02 guns and its ammunition."
    Replying to a question on rules regarding entry of Army units in the capital after Operation Bluestar in 1984, the Defence Minister said that no specific amendments were made in the policy in this regard.
    "No specific amendment in the rules/policy related to entry of Army units in the capital region of the country has been made in response to events in 1984 including operation Bluestar," Antony said.
    He was asked whether "the government had modified the rules regarding entry of Army units in the capital region after Army revolt as a result of Operation Blue Star in 1984". On the training movements of the force, he said these are based on the advance schedules prepared by the Army Headquarters.
    On entry of Army units into the NCR during Republic Day, Antony said, "Army units including those posted outside the NCR are nominated for participation in Republic Day Parade. The nominated Army units/contingents enter the Capital Region during Republic Day preparations."
    Replying to a question on the on-going probe in procurement of 12 VVIP helicopters, the Minister denied that the Enforcement Directorate (ED) has been asked to look into the allegations of kickback by the vendors.
    On complaints of embezzlement against Cantonment Board officials, Antony said, "A complaint dated Feb 2012 regarding embezzlement of fund concerning EPF/ESI and Service Tax of workers engaged through outsourcing by the officials of Delhi Cantonment Board has been received." The matter is under examination in the Directorate General of Defence Estates (DGDE), he told the House.


    Bharat Forge is developing 155/52 caliber gun

    New Delhi: Bharat Forge, India’s top forging and metallurgy firm has set itself a challenge to achieve. If they did, they will be India’s first artillery gun manufacturers. Participating in the Defexpo India-2012, the company’s Executive Director, Amit Kalyani told media persons that the indigenous gun will be ready for trials in the next 24 months.


    Amit Kalyani
    Kalyani said, “We are aiming to make 155mm 52 caliber towed gun in Pune. The technology has been developed within the company with the help of outside experts of east European countries. Technology is with people not with the brand. If you bring right people, you can develop any technology. We are committed to the defence needs.”

    He said, “We are going through transformation path and we are engineering conglomerate with five verticals and defence is one of them.”

    Kalyani sought level playing field for the private Indian gun manufactures and said, “The gun is expected to be ready for trials in two years time. The company has requested the concerned army for facilities at its firing range. So far, the response has been very supportive from the Army and DRDO. We hope the gun, which we are developing, will fulfill all the requirements of the Army.

    Speaking on the opportunity that Indian defence requirements are throwing to the industry, he said, “We are convinced that industry has role in this.” The Bharat Forge has competence in forging and metallurgy which is back bone for many of the defence land systems. The core competence has been brought to the table by the company along with engineering skills to come up with totally in house solutions for defence needs.

    Amit Kalyani told that, the company is involved in the defence business for around 30 years but the revenue generation from army supplies is around 200 crore which is peanuts for the $2 billion group. The company has invested 100 crores for the development to the 155/52 gun. The group’s focus on the defence sector is on the artillery, ammunition, special vehicle and futuristic products.

    Bharat Forge has been supplying ammunition shells to the army. Apart from that, the company manufactures barrels for 155mm 39 caliber guns. The company has also supplied around 30,000 wheels for T-72/90 tanks to the Indian Army. Also special alloy and titanium products for the armed forces are developed and supplied by the company.

    The company is also looking for partners to develop and manufacture armoured vehicles. He admitted that the company will market the gun once developed to other countries. He said, “We would like to market the gun across the world but our heart is in India. There was a time when the western companies were not even willing to give us an appointment to meet but now the times have changed. Today representatives of many such countries are making beeline to partner with us.

    DRDO, Army working on futuristic artillery gun - India News - IBNLive

    http://ibnlive.in.com/news/indiamade.../258436-3.html

    http://www.bharatdefencekavach.com/N...liber-gun.html
    Last edited by The Fox; 12-10-12 at 07:18 PM.
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    Elite Member Bhadra's Avatar
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    Re: Modern artillery and tactical missiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Akim View Post
    I looked over streams on a for Section "Land Forces",and saw that such his not theme - "Artillery". But this is a very important component of the Armed Forces, which here is not discussed. A permanent squabble goes, what tank is better, but practically there is not information about "God of war".


    Is there the future at the towed artillery?
    Till mountains and difficult terrain not helpful for cross country movement exist, towed artillery will remain.

    Why NATO refused caliber of cannons, less than 155-mm?
    155 mm calibre has been found to be best suited for heavy destructive ordinance capable of delivering a heavy and lethal HE punch on the target which lighter calibre lack. 105 mm and 120 mm is not capable of destruction of fortifications and A vehicles on impact. 130 mm is doubtful though relatively heavy. 155mm or calibre more than 150 mm are suitable for destructive shells. Guns of calibre more than 160 mm are very heavy and bulky and their logistics is cumbersome.

    one needs calibre around 152 or 155 mm to deliver miniaturised nuclear shells. 155 calibre is ideal for delivery of a number of variety of shells containing, HE, bomb-lets, Cargo and other munition in sufficient numbers etc.

    155 mm achieves a range of up to 40 km. Considering modern day target acquisition, identification and engagement capabilities and control of the UAVs, a range of 40 km has been identified to be opitmum for engagement. That range can not be achieved by lighter ordinance such as 105 mm.

    Can whether replace MLRS - tactical missiles? What undercarriage better, wheeled or tracks? Station ground reconnaissance and automatic control a fire and etc....
    No, both have their own roles to play. The role of the guns is essentially to support the ground operations, provide general and close support in aid of operations of the Infantry or mechanised forces. The role of MLRS and heavier missiles would generally be that of interdiction and destruction of area tragets. The role of MLRS and missiles is to strike at the enemy vital support elements in the second echelons effecting or weakening the operational capabilities of the troops in the front. Their role is to deliver "deep" fires. The guns provide immediate fire or fire in support.

    With the advent of miniaturised nuclear warheads, its designs have mostly been centred around 152 / 155 mm.

    155 is the largest Calibre that can be tracked, wheeled as also towed. Calibre heavier than that would have problems in all three sagements.
    Last edited by Bhadra; 12-10-12 at 07:25 PM.
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    Defence Professionals Akim's Avatar
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    Re: Modern artillery and tactical missiles

    Chinese MLRS has a range of 180 km and the caliber of 320 mm. His high--precision missiles, can replace the old generation tactical missiles.
    6febf34777e44cf2a945b3b09af
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    Elite Member Bhadra's Avatar
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    Re: Modern artillery and tactical missiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Akim View Post
    Chinese MLRS has a range of 180 km and the caliber of 320 mm. His high--precision missiles, can replace the old generation tactical missiles.
    6febf34777e44cf2a945b3b09af
    The more the range, the larger is the inaccuracy unless it has guidance system like GPS etc

    The issue is how does one controls the fire at that range and would such fires be cost effective ?

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    Re: Modern artillery and tactical missiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhadra View Post
    The more the range, the larger is the inaccuracy unless it has guidance system like GPS etc

    The issue is how does one controls the fire at that range and would such fires be cost effective ?
    Somehow before missiles flew without GPS and GLONASS. And they were quite accurate.
    Modern artillery and tactical missiles
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    Re: Modern artillery and tactical missiles

    Quote Originally Posted by Akim View Post
    Chinese MLRS has a range of 180 km and the caliber of 320 mm. His high--precision missiles, can replace the old generation tactical missiles.
    6febf34777e44cf2a945b3b09af
    China has developed the Weishi Rockets system with 7 different variants and range starting from 50 Km to as high as 400km

    Weishi Rockets - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Modern artillery and tactical missiles

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    Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2011 W.G.Ewald's Avatar
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    Re: Modern artillery and tactical missiles

    With the advent of miniaturised nuclear warheads, its designs have mostly been centred around 152 / 155 mm.

    Davy Crockett (nuclear device) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The M-28 or M-29 Davy Crockett Weapon System(s) was a tactical nuclear recoilless gun for firing the M388 nuclear projectile that was deployed by the United States during the Cold War. Named after American soldier, congressman, and folk hero Davy Crockett, it was one of the smallest nuclear weapon systems ever built.
    750px DavyCrockettBomb
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    Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2011 W.G.Ewald's Avatar
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    Re: Modern artillery and tactical missiles

    With the advent of miniaturised nuclear warheads, its designs have mostly been centred around 152 / 155 mm.
    M65 Atomic Cannon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The M65 was 280mm!



    The M65 Atomic Cannon, often called Atomic Annie,[3] was a towed artillery piece built by the United States and capable of firing a nuclear device. It was developed in the early 1950s, at the beginning of the Cold War, and fielded by 1953 in Europe and Korea.
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    Re: Modern artillery and tactical missiles

    6582972eea92
    Y1bPL
    Station of artillery reconnaissance SNAR- 10 (1973). In Russia and Ukraine hosts a variety of upgrade options. Put new RLS, analog equipment replacing to digital. . As a result of the detection range increased to 2.5-3 times, the rate of automatic fire control - 10 times. Station can correct guided shells, without the additional "backlight" from a laser ray.
    SNAR-10M (rus), SNAR-10U1 (ukr).
    snar 10m sostav1
    Snar 10M1 big
    Snar 10M1 rab mesto big
    Last edited by Akim; 14-10-12 at 01:32 PM.
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    Re: Modern artillery and tactical missiles

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    Re: Modern artillery and tactical missiles

    TERUEL MRL
    Spain


    Teruel  ES  1

    teruel l1

    teruel l2
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    Re: Modern artillery and tactical missiles

    @WGEwald
    Mortar - does not have devices, for absorption of return. All the energy of the impact is transmitted through the ground baseplate. There are mortars by a caliber from 37-мм to the "nuclear mortars in 420 мм.
    Modern artillery and tactical missiles
    fe2d69d7c07b
    Although there are exceptions. The main thing is that they shoot mines. This Soviet automatic mortar "Cornflower" on the chassis of the American Hamer.
    Modern artillery and tactical missiles
    Modern artillery and tactical missiles
    -- In Syria there are soviet mortars of М- 240.
    32884 original
    Libra of their mine - 130 kg! Agree, it would be inconvenient to charge through the muzzle. After the collapse of the Soviet Union his self-propelled variant remained in Russia. Was used in the first Chechen campaign.
    2s4 03
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