Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[farhan_9909]

Our long time ally and neighbors web site.

Al khalid............

 

[Damian]

Shotra jams IR as well?? How can they jam IR anyway...

IR can be jammed by Shtora or even without it. There are such things called multispectral smoke granades. They create smoke which not only hide you in normal view, but also in thermals. Such smoke can be distinguished from normal, that it is not white but more brown or orange. There is a lot of ways to camouflage in IR.

 

[Damian]

Oh and BTW, the photo above shows view in night vision, not thermal sight.

 

[Shirman]

Hi Damian other members , i wanted to know about the Thermal camouflage systems For eg, Bae ADAPTIV on saab light tank CV-90 i guess or IMI-ELTICS Systems Black fox adaptive camouflage systems mounted on M1 Abrams family.Are they as effective and futuristic also i wanted the polish guys to throw light on Polish thermal camoflage systems u had posted earlier i guess it was militarista or what ever that dude is named.

 

[Damian]

@shirman cloudboy

Well to be honest, the ADAPTIV and "Black Fox" are still more or less experiment, than something really usefull. Yet they are promising.

However I think such camouflage systems for MBT's or IFV's or in general, vehicles that fight, are not practical, other thing is of course recce.

More practical, simpler and cheaper are solutions like Intermat multispectral camouflage paints. These paints make vehicle, well almost invisible for thermal sights.

Here take a look:




These are M1 Abrams MBT's coated with standard CARC (1) paint and Intermat multispectral camouflage (2) paint.

Other solutions (that can be used with intermat paints) are multispectral camouflage covers and nets. There is several of such camouflage nets like the most famous Swedish Saab Barracuda MCS, or less known like Russian Nagidka, Ukrainian Kontrast or Polish Berberys.

Vehicle with and without Saab Barracuda MCS.

M1A1 and Leopard 2S/Strv122 with Saab Barracuda MCS.

@militarysta known much more about these so he probably will have more detailed informations.

Also such camouflage nets have one additional benefit, they isolate vehicle from envronment temperatures, so for example in desert, there is slightly less hot inside vehicle, this is especially important for vehicles without A/C.

 

[farhan_9909]

Oh and BTW, the photo above shows view in night vision, not thermal sight.

isNt this from the French 2nd gen Catherine thermal imagers of al zarar.?
The snap is actually captured from one of a video in YouTube

 

[Damian]

isNt this from the French 2nd gen Catherine thermal imagers of al zarar.?
The snap is actually captured from one of a video in YouTube

Perhaps.... hmmm if this is thermal, then it operates in black hot mode not white hot mode which is more common.

But onthe other hand, it looks like night vision as well.

 

[Shirman]

What is this type of camo Grass on T-90 MS tank

Oh never mind i got it its nagidka

But on other hand i wanted to ask Damian that has any country have ever fielded an thermal camo contest for eg russian, polish, Saab Baracuda aps etc...... if so which are highly rated one thanks in advance.........

 

[Damian]

What is this type of camo Grass on T-90 MS tank

Oh never mind i got it its nagidka

Some new one, I actually fogot it's designation name.

 

[farhan_9909]

mbt-2000 exported to bangladesh with ukrainian engine
6td2 1200HP

 

[farhan_9909]

the ukrainian engine is indeed damn powerfull

 

[Damian]

6TD-2 have rather standard power output. Besides this, you should know that there is nominal engine power, but part of this power is lost for cooling, lost on transmission and such things. So the power on the sprockets is allways lower than nominal engine power.

 

[LaVictoireEstLaVie]

Does any of you have the turret, hull weights and/or total weights of the following vehicles:

Arjun Mk1

Merkava 1
Merkava 2
Merkava 2D
Merkava 3
Merkava 3D
Merkava 4
Merkava 4M

Challenger 1
Challenger 1 mk3

Challenger 2
Challenger 2 Uparmored/Streetfighter/Dorchester

K1
k1A1
K2

T80U
T84M Oplot

Thanks !

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Aren`t you the same guy in MP.net ?

 

[Akim]

I will correct a bit:
T-84M, there is no tank. Ukrainian MBT begin with the abbreviation BM - (БМ-бойова машина) battle machine. See their website: KMDB - Kharkiv Morozov Machine Building Design Bureau
BM Bulat, BM Oplot, BM Yatagan..

 

[LaVictoireEstLaVie]

Thx Volna for the clear up! Yes i was from MP.

I was able to find the following information for the total weight of the vehicles in metric tons:

Arjun mk1 .................58,5 t
Arjun mk2 ..................67 t (+9 tons to the original Arjun mk1 . I am not sure if these are metric units. Seems to quite a large addition)

Challenger 1........................... 62 t
Challenger 1 mk3 .................. 62 t + kit weight (at least 5t)
Challenger 2 ......................... 62,5 t
Challenger 2 uparmored ....... 62,5 t +kit weight (at least 5t)

K1..................... 51,1 t
K1A1................. 53,1 - 54,5 t
K2..................... 55,0 t

Leopard 2A7+.......... 67,5 t

Merkava Mk 1......... 61-63 t
Merkava Mk 2......... 63 t
Merkava Mk 2D...... 63+ t
Merkava Mk 3........ 63,5 t
Merkava Mk 3D..... 65 t
Merkava 4............. 65 t (seems to a bit off. It is more likely to be around 70 t)
Merkava 4M.......... 65+ t

M1A2 SEP v2 with Tusk 1 and 2 the M1A2 SEP (v1 or v2) weighs 63,1 metric tons total. , 24,4 tons for the turret and 38,7 tons for the hull. This weight does not include TUSK. The kit most likely will weigh in excess of 4 metric tons

Type 90................ 50 t
Type 10............... 48 t (in most upgraded state)

T-80U.................. 46,0 t
T-90S.................. 46,5 t
t-90 MS ............... 48 t
BM Oplot ........... 51 t

ZTZ 98................... 51,8 t
ZTZ 99A1.............. 57 t (seems rather heavy for relatively a small turreted vehicle)
ZTZ 99A2 ................ 58 t (seems rather heavy for a relatively small turreted vehicle)

 

[LaVictoireEstLaVie]

Information about the Leclerc:

Leclerc S1......... 54,5 t......... turret weight 18,5 t .......hull weight 36 t

Leclerc S2......... 56 t........... turret weight 18,5 t .....hull weight 37,5 t

Leclerc XXI ........ 58 t........... turret weight 20,5 t.... hull weight 37, 5 t

 

[Damian]

M1A1SA have the same weight as M1A2SEP, this is because armor package was standarized to the 3rd generation Heavy Armor Package during modernization. Situation not known with M1A1FEP, but it is analog of US Army/ARNG M1A1SA for USMC, so it is reasonable to take into consideration that there was also performed armor modernization to the standarized 3rd generation HAP.

The late production M1A1HA, M1A1HC and M1A2 also should have the same armor package (2nd generation HAP) and should weight approx 62-62,5 metric tons. Early to mid production batches of M1A1HA should weight approx 58-60 metric tons. M1A1 probably approx 56 metric tons. M1IP 55,5 metric tons, and M1 approx 54,5 metric tons.

 

[LaVictoireEstLaVie]

Thanks Damian for the info. Hunnicutt gives the following approximate weights for the early M1 series of tanks:
XM1 (GM)....................53,2 tons
XM1(Chrysler).............52,7 tons
M1 ..............................as you mentioned
M1E1.......................... 57,3 tons
M1A1..........................59,1 tons

from the US army site

M1A1............... 61,3 tons (most likely a HA variant)
M1A2 .............. 62 tons
M1A2 SEP.........63 tons

btw . What is second generation HAP ?

 

[Damian]

HAP - Heavy Armor Package. The M1 series had several different armor packages used through it's service life.

The basic M1 had Burlington in configuration that was probably represented by mentioned in some documents Ballistic Research Laboratory armor model BRL-1, which was Americanized Burlington that also had alternative codename Starflower. There was also improved BRL-2 armor model which probably was closer to the Burlington configuration used in M1IP and M1A1.

The M1A1HA was the first from the family that not used British Burlington, but new, completely designed in USA armor, which do not have any official codename, so I use Heavy Armor Package name to describe it (taken from M1A1HA designation code where HA means Heavy Armor).

So the M1A1HA had 1st generation HAP and late production batches of it and a newer variants from the 1990's period like M1A1HC and M1A2 use 2nd generation HAP. In 1999 with M1A2SEP, had been introduced 3rd generation HAP, and due to the XXI century modernization effort, all upgraded tanks to the M1A1SA, M1A2SEP and probably also M1A1FEP, received this 3rd generation HAP as part of standarization between variants. As the goal of US Army was to have a 2 variant fleet for itself and ARNG where US Army will operate the most advanced M1A2SEP, ARNG will operate M1A1SA which have a bit less advanced electronics and do not have TMS-VCSU and UAAPU/Hawker Battery Pack. But the standarization in terms of armor was definetly desired, it will reduce costs and simplify production because there won't be nececity to manufacture two different armor packages.

Also USMC M1A1FEP as I said is analog to ARNG M1A1SA (soon both will be very, very similiar to each other after next phase of modernization, like for example replacement of CWS with SCWS), so here armor package upgrade is also more than possible.