Is India a potential US ally or rival?

[asianobserve]

An ultra nationalist like me is very very pro US.

My fault, leftist ultra-nationalists...

 

[Bangalorean]

I think any county that thinks of its self as a religious contry, such as Indian Hindu country are going to suffer for it. while the majority of americans are Christian we are not a Christian Country , we have a truly secular goverment that allows full partispation of all religons.
The USA has no desire to dominate south asia, it just has a desire that no one else does either. As far as India being an ally of the USA, I dont see what India brings to the table that justfries the risk to the USA. Would the USA want to really risk a war over India. India has never done any thing for the USA. 90 percent of the time India has voted against the USA in issues at the UN.

Indian Hindu country? Are you daft?

Go and read up on stuff before you make outrageous statements. If anything, India is more secular than the US.

 

[no smoking]

The USA has no desire to dominate south asia, it just has a desire that no one else does either. As far as India being an ally of the USA, I dont see what India brings to the table that justfries the risk to the USA. Would the USA want to really risk a war over India. India has never done any thing for the USA. 90 percent of the time India has voted against the USA in issues at the UN.

USA may not have the desire to dominate south asia but india has the potential ability to dominate south asia. That is enough for USA to contain india's growing influence within indian ocean. Can india accept that?

 

[roma]

Partner - Yes Ally- No Economic - Yes Military - No That too if it suits India.

basically would agree with that ....you summed it in a nutshell .....i would add ...if it suits both countries , not just india

.......International relationship is far more complex than black and white: .......

there is nothing at all complicated about the aggressive growth and aggressive posture of china .....you dont need a PhD to figure that out
both india and usa need each other if they are to keep china's aggressiveness from upsetting the global balances of power

USA may not have the desire to dominate south asia but india has the potential ability to dominate south asia. That is enough for USA to contain india's growing influence within indian ocean. Can india accept that?

india in NO position to dominate south asia ......not with all that is gonig on in the country .......usa knows that
your attempt to make india look a threat is not gonna be seriously considered by anyone let alone the sharp minds in the usa

 

[average american]

The USA goverment is about as secular as any goverment on earth it was a hard road to travel. It would be considered bad manners in the USA to ask some one what is their religion and illegal if it had something to do with a job or houseing.

 

[arkem8]

USA may not have the desire to dominate south asia but india has the potential ability to dominate south asia. That is enough for USA to contain india's growing influence within indian ocean. Can india accept that?

Indian already dominates "South Asia"/the Indian Subcontinent militarily and economically. The Americans cannot sail an A/C into the Arabian Sea or Bay of Bengal and force India's hand. They would love to but cannot.

The USA goverment is about as secular as any goverment on earth it was a hard road to travel. It would be considered bad manners in the USA to ask some one what is their religion and illegal if it had something to do with a job or houseing.

Western European Nations= Christian constitutionally ::Secular in practice
United States= Secular Constitutionally:: Christian in practice(No way a Hindu, Jain, Buddhist or Sikh will every make President----ever!!)


[email protected]>>>>> The American veteran Diplomat says "The Indian's are too big and too proud to ever become a treaty ally of the U.S". This was true in 47' and its true in 08' when they tried to force something similar in exchange for the nuke deal. Us Indians just have really foul taste in the mouth when it comes to the "west" in general and the Brits in particular.

 

[WMD]

@average american can a Jew or a Muslim or a Sikh become the President of the US? Well just asking.

India and the US will have to ally out of compulsion if not anything else for the next few decades at least.

The meaning of te word alliance has to change. It certainly will not be master and poodle kinda thing a la Britain.
The US understands this and what I have seen tells me India and US can accommodate each other very well. What has happened over the years or the history of how India has voted etc is irrelevant. We are looking for common strategic goals that we can work together with. In the current both Asian as well as world context it is China and how to maintain peace and stability while the Chinese continue to make ridiculous assertions about their sovereignty all over Asia.

AFAIK US had only one Roman Catholic prez, that's kennedy
that's how secular they r.

 

[hello_10]

Whether Married or Singles, both cry

US is that big shiit for India that India can't either ignore it nor even accept to be a Western ally too . being a friend with US means for being a friend of a society of the world, which does have a social structure and enough influence on the world due to its strong links with Europe too, the majority of US who have European identity..... and hence it again comes with a serious shiits associated with the Identity Difference, cultural clashes etc. and hence a threat to come on the condition to get recognized as either an enemy of that society, similar to Muslims, or become part of their all the rights and wrongs they ever did in past, or, they want to continue doing in future too due to their religious/racial feeling etc., which is mainly intended to maintain inflow of money from developing countries in either way

I think India would try to become a good friend of US+West only. similar to a friend in need, a friend indeed, with a condition to leave the table whenever it face any problem due to its friendship with US/West. friendship doesn't mean that India would start participating with US in their wars, neither India would become part of their efforts to fix their conflicts with Middle East/Muslims etc. and also there must not be any reason, why India would become an arm or Christianity against Islam, nor there be any condition imposed on India that it has to get involved with the failures of Western society too, to help them maintain prosperity in either way . there would always be an opportunity to leave the table, whenever its required, with a promise to help US/West too in tough circumstances , as a responsible society of world....

but things aren't as easy as I said as above. US/West simply believes in power excessive to get their work done/get prosperity in either way, and hence there can't be any proper talks between these two societies of the world until Indian Society comes in the position to defend itself from US first :thumb:

 

[W.G.Ewald]

AFAIK US had only one Roman Catholic prez, that's kennedy
that's how secular they r.

You are talking about demographics, not secularism.

 

[no smoking]

india in NO position to dominate south asia ......not with all that is gonig on in the country .......usa knows that
your attempt to make india look a threat is not gonna be seriously considered by anyone let alone the sharp minds in the usa

There is no other country in south asia can match india's power. India would have been a dominance power for a long time in this area if there is no foreign power.

Whether India is a threat depends on other countries' opinion not india itself. Unfortunately, your neighbours see you as a threat, at least a potential threat. That is why they welcome US and China apperance.

Yes, USA knows. That is why their fleet is always here unless you believe they are only coming for priates!

 

[Armand2REP]

Unless India becomes pro-China or the same for US, I don't see them being rivals. The common foe will keep them on the same page. They will never be allies. India is too independent for that.

 

[mikhail]

Unless India becomes pro-China or the same for US, I don't see them being rivals. The common foe will keep them on the same page. They will never be allies. India is too independent for that.

well i totally agree with you on the bold part of your comment.but i think India and the U.S. can become close strategical allies in the near future as we have a common interest to check the growing potential threat of china in the South Asian region.but i don't think India will become a part of the so called "ally" of the U.S. as we have an independent foreign policy unlike G.B. or Australia

 

[roma]

There is no other country in south asia can match india's power. India would have been a dominance power for a long time in this area if there is no foreign power. ...Whether India is a threat depends on other countries' opinion not india itself. Unfortunately, your neighbours see you as a threat, at least a potential threat. That is why they welcome US and China apperance. ...Yes, USA knows. That is why their fleet is always here unless you believe they are only coming for priates!

well you see it that way

there are those of us whose view is that the usa is ether to counter chinese presence and growing influence in IO ....usa knows india cont do it on its own

 

[hello_10]

well you see it that way

there are those of us whose view is that the usa is ether to counter chinese presence and growing influence in IO ....usa knows india cont do it on its own

thats true and if India can defend itself from China and US 'both', then it doesn't need US's 'help' too, isn't it???

and I don't think India really need any type of military help from US to defend itself from China or US too, as discussed in this thread as below:

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...countries-highest-military-expenditure-3.html

 

[roma]

thats true and if India can defend itself from China and US 'both', then it doesn't need US's 'help' too, isn't it???
and I don't think India really need any type of military help from US to defend itself from China or US too, as discussed in this thread as below:
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...countries-highest-military-expenditure-3.html

i hope admin would consider in addition to the "like" button a couple of others eg. " unintelligible" and/ or "stupid" plus some others ...so we could have a comment such as "you plus 5 others find this post unintelligible" or stupic or some other category

the post quoted easily qualifies

 

[hello_10]

i hope admin would consider in addition to the "like" button a couple of others eg. " unintelligible" and/ or "stupid" plus some others ...so we could have a comment such as "you plus 5 others find this post unintelligible" or stupic or some other category

the post quoted easily qualifies

being "intelligible/ intellectual" is an immature/ incompetent word, as learning process never ends. you can't really prove your intelligence by few clicks on these icons or by few comments like this .... :

i would welcome your comments in one more thread of mine as below, which is also concerned with finding the reliable friend of India, strategically and on defense aspects both :thumb:

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...nds-indias-strategic-defense-relations-2.html

 

[thakur_ritesh]

Pretty well rounded up by Rollie Lal in putting up a case for India, and how dramatically different India is to China, and their overall relations with the US where China is far from being in a league with India, where China is bound to have confrontations, and confrontations that in a worst case scenario could even end up in a war over Taiwan, but nothing like that exists between India and the US over which the 2 could even contemplate over going to a war.

Though she did miss on a few points here and there, but she did represent the India's PoV very well on whole host of issues.

On India being a France to the US, yes, possible, but I would imagine a far more withdrawn form of a France than what France is to the US, and if this is what is coming out from the US government employee who was stationed in New Delhi, that I think gives a good enough hint on how India gets viewed by the US in the power corridors that be.

I was rather intrigued by Rollie's remark on the Sunni-Shia divide and how the divisions between the two are used by the successive governments to balance the things out and how Shia's are way more open to Hindus than the Sunnis. Intrigues me because never have I heard of such a division before, but then her study made her talk to some pretty influential people in the GoI and outside so I guess what gets kept hidden might just be out of the bag.

Over all, there no shred of doubt in the fact that India is far better placed to have better relations with the US, than China is in the immediate to midterm perspective.

@W.G.Ewald,

Please watch the video, and the realization does run well on part of the US government that the GoI has not got over with the '71 incident and how the US was to find itself on the wrong side of India. I mention this because this is not just a reflection of this forum per se, but pretty much what the thought process runs at the highest level within Indian strategic thinkers, but given that, there lies an understanding that the two countries need to work together and forge far more greater workable and collaborative relationship, and not just as a counter balance to the PRC but on many-many more common grounds. My hunch is, the relations between our two countries have moved on a much better level than are being made out publically.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

@W.G.Ewald,

Please watch the video, and the realization does run well on part of the US government that the GoI has not got over with the '71 incident and how the US was to find itself on the wrong side of India. I mention this because this is not just a reflection of this forum per se, but pretty much what the thought process runs at the highest level within Indian strategic thinkers, but given that, there lies an understanding that the two countries need to work together and forge far more greater workable and collaborative relationship, and not just as a counter balance to the PRC but on many-many more common grounds. My hunch is, the relations between our two countries have moved on a much better level than are being made out publically.

We get further away from '71 every year, but Uncle Sam is still tied to Pakistan, although for different reasons than those that resulted from the situation 40 years ago. If India today can benefit from a partnership with Russia, that is just reality.

 

[no smoking]

well you see it that way

there are those of us whose view is that the usa is ether to counter chinese presence and growing influence in IO ....usa knows india cont do it on its own

Well, only problem is China is not that powerful to challenge anyone in IO. Hell, China cannot challenge US navy in east asia today, how big threat China can impose on IO? How many ships and planes does China deploy in IO? Almost ZERO!

Chinese forces cannot even match Pakistan's navy in IO. China is still counting on US to protect its sea line in IO.

 

[Raja.pakistani]

and what is definition of ally?

having trade/business and getting ammunition/nuclear energy, loans ?

I think all nations work on give and take basis. USA has no friend or foe for forever. If you are good for their national interests and they need you then you are their ally