Dutch ban on halal and kosher meat

[Rahul Singh]

Slitting throat and letting animal bleed for so long with its brain/head still attached with rest of the body will make that animal feel extreme pain comparatively to instantaneous killing methods. We all know, it is the brain tissues which makes someone feel pain and one that send messages to brain from affected organ and back to organ from brain are nerve cells, which run through spine all the way up to brain. In a Halal style, the nervous system stays intact and leads to feeling of extreme pain. As far as i know, this the reason why during a Bali* (a Hindu sacrifice ritual) animal is straightaway beheaded in one slicing hit from behind and this method is popularly called Zhataka (a pushing action).

I have seen Halal killing, depending on the size of goat a number of people will sit on goat with crushing force and one will run a small knife two three times at throat.

* Bali. I don't support this ritual.

Because they want Muslims out. Who knows if it will work.

Who doesn't ?

 

[Daredevil]

Halal/Kosher methods are definitely more painful way of killing animals. Sacrificing animals should be quick and painless from the humane point of view - no ifs and buts. Even in science, when mice/rats are sacrificed they are done in a manner which is quick and painless - we use methods such as cervical dislocation or by using CO2. I think the dutch are right in bringing in this law and it should be done everywhere else.

 

[maomao]

You kill animals for food or you should ban it completely!!

Why have this sham argument that we are so much animal rights conscious or love animals so much that we kill them only after stunning them......????

What is love? What are rights?

And where does killing the one you loved is a way to display love or show how much you cared!! Its funny how these leftists try and fool everyone!

 

[Yusuf]

Duh!!! I thought stunning was the Jhatka method whereas it is not. Stunning is just a process of knocking the animal unconscious and then slaughtering like normal.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki?search=Stunning

Desensitisation, or stunning, of the subject before slaughter remains a debatable issue. However, most Islamic scholars have come to terms and agreed that stunning is acceptable and thus the meat is Halal for Muslim consumption. There are a number of forms of stunning and in some forms, the animal will remain unharmed and can actually get up and walk away a few minutes later if it is not slaughtered . Furthermore, stunning is an effective mass production technique that provides a means of controlling the slaughter more precisely, thereby avoiding undue stress to the animal and the slaughterman. As a whole, from these conditions, it is obvious that Halal manners are determined in fine details, and that the slaughterer has to be careful to clear all of Halal steps. From this standpoint, the concept of Halal in Islam is quite unique in the world.

My bad!! In Islam, unless the nervous system is damaged, the meat is Halal to eat.

But the fact still remains that after stunning, the throat will still be slit.

 

[Ray]

I don't know how the meat is cut, because the meat seller merely hangs up the carcasses.

 

[tarunraju]

 

[StarShip Enterprise]

If you want to talk about animal right then don't kill it at the first place.

well much more than anything, it must be healthy for the people who eat it.

in kosher or halal, on cutting the main arteries makes it impossible for the adrenaline or any other variety of enzymes that is pumping out in the animal to circulate throughout the body of the animal.
cos the blood the carrier of these enzymes is drained/prevented from being circulated.
this cannot be prevented in any other way how technologically advanced it may be !
so kosher or halal holds good. next time you eat meat - try kosher or halal. they are good for your health !!!

 

[mattster]

You gotta like the smarts of the Dutch. No better way of getting rid troublesome north African Muslim communities and orthodox Jews by telling them there is no halal or kosher.

Since they are banging both Muslims and Jews - no one can accuse them of anything. Now all they need to do is ban the import of halal and kosher and you have closed the loophole.

 

[pmaitra]

Duh!!! I thought stunning was the Jhatka method whereas it is not. Stunning is just a process of knocking the animal unconscious and then slaughtering like normal.

Stunning

Desensitisation, or stunning, of the subject before slaughter remains a debatable issue. However, most Islamic scholars have come to terms and agreed that stunning is acceptable and thus the meat is Halal for Muslim consumption. There are a number of forms of stunning and in some forms, the animal will remain unharmed and can actually get up and walk away a few minutes later if it is not slaughtered . Furthermore, stunning is an effective mass production technique that provides a means of controlling the slaughter more precisely, thereby avoiding undue stress to the animal and the slaughterman. As a whole, from these conditions, it is obvious that Halal manners are determined in fine details, and that the slaughterer has to be careful to clear all of Halal steps. From this standpoint, the concept of Halal in Islam is quite unique in the world.

My bad!! In Islam, unless the nervous system is damaged, the meat is Halal to eat.

But the fact still remains that after stunning, the throat will still be slit.

Yusuf, please correct me if I am wrong.

This ritual of slow slitting of the throat is Islamic indeed, but more importantly it predates Islam itself. It existed among the Semites (Arabs, Jews et al.). The idea was to drain out the blood from the slaughtered animal so that the meat remains good for a longer period.

Now, if preservation is the idea, then there is no need to stick to this ritual. Other than that, there must be some way to make the animal unconscious and still slaughter the animal following the Islamic rituals. That way, the animal does not feel any pain and the devout get to eat the right kind of meat.

Would that not be a win-win situation for both?

 

[Blackwater]

The Dutch lower house of parliament has passed a law effectively banning the ritual slaughter of animals, in a move condemned by Muslim and Jewish groups.
The legislation states that all animals must be stunned before being killed.
But the Islamic dhabiha and Jewish shechita methods of ritual slaughter require them to be fully conscious.
The legislation was proposed by an animal rights party with two MPs, which argued that failing to stun the animals subjected them to unnecessary pain.
But debate over the matter swiftly became a focus of animosity towards the Netherlands' 1.2 million-strong Muslim community. The country's Jewish population is comparatively small at 50,000.
Following months of debate a last minute concession was offered - the Muslim and Jewish communities will have a year to provide evidence that animals slaughtered by traditional methods do not experience greater pain than those that are stunned before they are killed.
However, observers say finding such proof will be virtually impossible.
The bill must still be approved by the upper house of parliament before it can become law.
Religious freedom

Before Tuesday's vote, the head of the Party for the Animals, Marianne Thieme, denied the bill was an attack on religious minorities.
She argued the law was necessary because scientists agreed that animals suffered pain or fear if they were not stunned before slaughter, and because current regulations allowed exceptions for ritual slaughter.
Continue reading the main story "Start QuoteOne of the first measures taken during the Occupation [by Nazi Germany during World War II] was the closing of kosher abattoirs"
End Quote Binyomin Jacobs Dutch Chief Rabbi
"If you stun an animal before it's been killed, the animal won't experience its own death," she told the BBC World Service. "If you have new techniques to ensure there's no unnecessary suffering then you have to use it."
"Three-thousand years ago, there were no anaesthetics," she added. "But since then we have developed more humane methods."
In a rare show of unity, the Muslim and Jewish communities condemned the legislation and said it infringed on their religious freedom.
"One of the first measures taken during the Occupation [by Nazi Germany during World War II] was the closing of kosher abattoirs," Dutch Chief Rabbi Binyomin Jacobs told MPs during a debate in The Hague.
"If we no longer have people who can do ritual slaughter in the Netherlands, we will stop eating meat," he added.
The Party for the Animals said two million animals were subjected to ritual slaughter every year in the Netherlands, although the organisation Halal Correct said only 250,000 were killed without being stunned beforehand.
To make meat kosher for Jews or halal for Muslims, animals must be slaughtered while still awake, by swiftly cutting the main arteries and veins in their necks with sharp knives, and then allowing the blood to drain out.
BBC News - Dutch MPs effectively ban ritual slaughter of animals

atleast this move brought together two katar enemy Muslims and Jews. Hope this type of ban Implimented in middle-east. Iam sure Palestine and Israel isuue will resolved

 

[Yusuf]

Yusuf, please correct me if I am wrong.

This ritual of slow slitting of the throat is Islamic indeed, but more importantly it predates Islam itself. It existed among the Semites (Arabs, Jews et al.). The idea was to drain out the blood from the slaughtered animal so that the meat remains good for a longer period.

Now, if preservation is the idea, then there is no need to stick to this ritual. Other than that, there must be some way to make the animal unconscious and still slaughter the animal following the Islamic rituals. That way, the animal does not feel any pain and the devout get to eat the right kind of meat.

Would that not be a win-win situation for both?

Yes, the ritual predates Islam. Abraham was ordered to sacrifice his son by God and be was about to slit the throat when Angel Gabriel appeared and ask him to not kill his son but sacrifice a lamb. He did so by slitting of the throat.

The idea of draining out blood is not for preservation but for the fact that consumption of blood is Haram in Islam. So max possible blood is drained out and rest is cleaned before cooking. Healthy meat is one which is drained of it's blood before consumption. One of the reasons why pig is haraam is because there is no distinct "throat" to slit and drain the blood.

Yes, stunning is a method to knock the animal unconscious and then slit the throat. In my earlier post, I said that is all right. Only the method of stunning should be such that the nervous system is not damaged or the animal should not be incapacitated in any manner that if you don't kill it, it can wake up and walk away like before from the "stun".

 

[pmaitra]

Yes, the ritual predates Islam. Abraham was ordered to sacrifice his son by God and be was about to slit the throat when Angel Gabriel appeared and ask him to not kill his son but sacrifice a lamb. He did so by slitting of the throat.

The idea of draining out blood is not for preservation but for the fact that consumption of blood is Haram in Islam. So max possible blood is drained out and rest is cleaned before cooking. Healthy meat is one which is drained of it's blood before consumption. One of the reasons why pig is haraam is because there is no distinct "throat" to slit and drain the blood.

Yes, stunning is a method to knock the animal unconscious and then slit the throat. In my earlier post, I said that is all right. Only the method of stunning should be such that the nervous system is not damaged or the animal should not be incapacitated in any manner that if you don't kill it, it can wake up and walk away like before from the "stun".

Thanks for the info Yusuf.

Yes, it is true that meat drained of the blood is healthy, except that I was told about the scientific reason behind this practice not the historical one.

Regarding pigs, well, I think there are some other animals that are included in the list, isn't it? For example, animals that crawl. Again, this is hearsay. What about fish? They too don't have a distinct throat. Could the fear of tapeworm be a reason for forbidding pork?

 

[Yusuf]

Thanks for the info Yusuf.

Yes, it is true that meat drained of the blood is healthy, except that I was told about the scientific reason behind this practice not the historical one.

Regarding pigs, well, I think there are some other animals that are included in the list, isn't it? For example, animals that crawl. Again, this is hearsay. What about fish? They too don't have a distinct throat. Could the fear of tapeworm be a reason for forbidding pork?

No rules of animals don't apply to fish or otter marine animals.

Yes there are other animals too that are haram. Any animal that sits by resting it's hind legs first is haram. Like canines. Animals that sit resting their fore limbs first are Halal.

Roughly carnivores are haram, herbivores are Halal as all carnivores sit on their hind limbs first.

 

[sanjay]

Why does everybody have to be so addicted to their religious traditions/superstitions?

I'm an atheist - I eat beef, pork, chicken, lamb, and everything else. So did my parents before me. What's the big hangup over eating, anyway? Why does there always have to be elaborate ritualism over everything?

Common sense should prevail. People should live rationally and scientifically. In today's modern world, there is no excuse for persisting with the ignorance of the past.

 

[Yusuf]

Why does everybody have to be so addicted to their religious traditions/superstitions?

I'm an atheist - I eat beef, pork, chicken, lamb, and everything else. So did my parents before me. What's the big hangup over eating, anyway? Why does there always have to be elaborate ritualism over everything?

Common sense should prevail. People should live rationally and scientifically. In today's modern world, there is no excuse for persisting with the ignorance of the past.

If you go into the details of why and what in Islamic beliefs about dietary habits, you will find it very scientific.

 

[LurkerBaba]

If you go into the details of why and what in Islamic beliefs about dietary habits, you will find it very scientific.

Yusuf that's a slippery slope. Loads of dietary habits and religious rituals can be made to seem scientific

We can make scientific cases for say.... Pork and Beef, but billions of people around the world eat it.

 

[Yusuf]

Yusuf that's a slippery slope. Loads of dietary habits and religious rituals can be made to seem scientific

We can make scientific cases for say.... Pork and Beef, but billions of people around the world eat it.

Lot of people eat what they want. Dogs are eaten in China but banned in US even.

There is nothing impractical about the dietary laws of Islam. Its all easy to follow and no one has to go out of the way or undergo any hardship to follow the laws.

 

[LurkerBaba]

Lot of people eat what they want. Dogs are eaten in China but banned in US even.

There is nothing impractical about the dietary laws of Islam. Its all easy to follow and no one has to go out of the way or undergo any hardship to follow the laws.

I'm not saying anything about practical and impractical.

All I'm saying is that these laws are a result of the prevalent culture at that time and not scientific fact (same for all dietary laws like Jewish law)

PS: Dogs are eaten in many parts of India too

 

[Ray]

Pork was taken to be an unhealthy animal since it roamed around free and eat unmentionable things.

One has to see pigs eating stuff around slums to get a revulsion to this type of an unhealthy pork.

Porks raised in hygienic conditions are a different kettle of fish.

Dogs are eaten in the NE.

Many officers operating in the NE suddenly become vegetarians since when the Gaonbura invites you, there is always some dog meat and if you are a non vegetarian and you don't eat it, it become a sort of a slight to their hospitality.

 

[JBH22]

Lot of people eat what they want. Dogs are eaten in China but banned in US even.

There is nothing impractical about the dietary laws of Islam. Its all easy to follow and no one has to go out of the way or undergo any hardship to follow the laws.

Its not about the impracticability or whatever reasons that the Dutch are enacting these laws to prevent the so called increasing "islamisation" of their society,but eventually cursing them won't do much its their country they do what they want.
The increasing hostility to Islam from an otherwise tolerant Dutch society is mostly due to the misbehavior of Moroccan youths there check this video.I don't blame the Dutch because if even 1% of immigrants behave like this it will naturally give a bad image of all the community as whole

Muslims disrupt the funerals of Dutch infidels