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Refitted HMS Ark Royal for Indian Navy

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    Air Warrior Parthy's Avatar
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    Refitted HMS Ark Royal for Indian Navy

    Hi,

    Just starting this thread to share your ideas and views on getting the decommissioned British HMS Ark Royal AC.

    Just a rollback into the history,

    HMS Ark Royal Commissioned on 1985.

    It is getting decommissioned from British Royal Navy earlier than expected..

    Will that be feasible to get the AC and refit extensively as we are doing for Adm.Gorshkov...

    Share your views/Ideas..

    - Parthy


    › See More: Refitted HMS Ark Royal for Indian Navy
    our [B]INDIA [/B]will stand against all odds to be a great Nation :namaste:

    We are the[B][SIZE="3"] Key to World Peace[/SIZE][/B] :thumb:

    We are the Nation who [FONT="Georgia"][SIZE="4"][B]do not believe in using Force[/B][/SIZE][/FONT] in resolving disputes. :hail:

    [SIZE="4"]Proud to be an Indian[/SIZE] :india:

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    Air Warrior Parthy's Avatar
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    In addition, RFA Largs Bay also getting decommisioned.. What about getting that too?? :emot180:
    our [B]INDIA [/B]will stand against all odds to be a great Nation :namaste:

    We are the[B][SIZE="3"] Key to World Peace[/SIZE][/B] :thumb:

    We are the Nation who [FONT="Georgia"][SIZE="4"][B]do not believe in using Force[/B][/SIZE][/FONT] in resolving disputes. :hail:

    [SIZE="4"]Proud to be an Indian[/SIZE] :india:

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    nrj
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    Awesome!
    BTW when can GOI start getting its indigenous carriers with desi resources & practically cheaper LCC??

    Now is the time for CSL to aggressively deploy modular building operations & get half dozen carriers rolling till coming decade. Enough of so-called "Stop-gap" measures. Naval MRCAs are going require much sophisticated carriers so logic remains in concentrating on IAC-2 & future catapult systems.
    [SIZE="2"]Spock: If Romulans are an offshoot of my Vulcan blood, then attack becomes even more imperative.

    McCoy: War is never imperative.

    Spock: It is for them, Doctor. Vulcan, like Earth, had its aggressive colonizing period, savage even by Earth standards. If Romulans retain this martial philosophy, then we dare not show weakness.[/SIZE]

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    CHINI EXPERT Armand2REP's Avatar
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    Four Type 22s also being decommissioned.... what about getting that three-six?

    HMS Illustrious being decommed too... what about getting that seventh?

    70 Harriers retired... what about getting those eighth?

    9 half built Nimrods being disassembled... what about getting those ninth?

    2 Replenishment tankers being retired... what about getting those 10th?

    25 Sea Kings getting retired... what about those 11th?

    3 Sea tugs being cut... what about those 12th?

    _________________________

    RN is dumping enough maritime capability to equip a smaller medium sized naval power.

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    Air Warrior Parthy's Avatar
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    nrj, is there any schedule announced on IAC-2??

    IAC-1 - is scheduled as follows

    The ship will be launched by October 2010, as per the phase I contract signed by CSL with the Defense Ministry. The phase II of the contract will end with the delivery of the ship to the Navy by the end of 2014.

    But still the first-phase yet to be completed.

    work on IAC-2 is schedule to start on the verge of IAC-1 completion.. we have many private ship docks without any project.. Let them give these major Refitting works.. They'll get expertise in system engineering and then when we are planning for IAC-3 let give those contract to them.. Just like give them a mock practice and provide a live project...

    We know very well that nothing worked as SCHEDULED in Indigenous products.. Instead of keeping your fingers crossed, change the way of approach and direct the fingers at the enemy to warn them!!

    On long term, IN has to be provided with 3 active patrolling Carrier Battle groups with 1 or 2 reserved as backup...

    Actually, am not against indigenous products.. Just to speed up in strengthening the IN to rule IO.
    our [B]INDIA [/B]will stand against all odds to be a great Nation :namaste:

    We are the[B][SIZE="3"] Key to World Peace[/SIZE][/B] :thumb:

    We are the Nation who [FONT="Georgia"][SIZE="4"][B]do not believe in using Force[/B][/SIZE][/FONT] in resolving disputes. :hail:

    [SIZE="4"]Proud to be an Indian[/SIZE] :india:

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    Air Warrior Parthy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armand2REP View Post
    Four Type 22s also being decommissioned.... what about getting that three-six?

    HMS Illustrious being decommed too... what about getting that seventh?

    70 Harriers retired... what about getting those eighth?

    9 half built Nimrods being disassembled... what about getting those ninth?

    2 Replenishment tankers being retired... what about getting those 10th?

    25 Sea Kings getting retired... what about those 11th?

    3 Sea tugs being cut... what about those 12th?

    _________________________

    RN is dumping enough maritime capability to equip a smaller medium sized naval power.
    am just looking for the fleets which we are desperately in need!! AC and an amphibious ship for Combined operations would boost our capability!!
    our [B]INDIA [/B]will stand against all odds to be a great Nation :namaste:

    We are the[B][SIZE="3"] Key to World Peace[/SIZE][/B] :thumb:

    We are the Nation who [FONT="Georgia"][SIZE="4"][B]do not believe in using Force[/B][/SIZE][/FONT] in resolving disputes. :hail:

    [SIZE="4"]Proud to be an Indian[/SIZE] :india:

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    nrj
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parthy View Post
    nrj, is there any schedule announced on IAC-2??
    Nothing yet in public domain. However, CSL is supposed to get 5 carriers for IN in coming decade starting with IAC-1.

    work on IAC-2 is schedule to start on the verge of IAC-1 completion.. we have many private ship docks without any project.. Let them give these major Refitting works.. They'll get expertise in system engineering and then when we are planning for IAC-3 let give those contract to them.. Just like give them a mock practice and provide a live project...

    We know very well that nothing worked as SCHEDULED in Indigenous products.. Instead of keeping your fingers crossed, change the way of approach and direct the fingers at the enemy to warn them!!

    On long term, IN has to be provided with 3 active patrolling Carrier Battle groups with 1 or 2 reserved as backup...

    Actually, am not against indigenous products.. Just to speed up in strengthening the IN to rule IO.
    IN doctrine is different from that of operational buildup Royal Navy had for 1985 to till date, same goes with Gorky. In fact no firangi carrier will ever be suitable for IN.

    Buying out decommissioned AC from other country involves ample amount of compromise. For example, Gorky won't be featuring any good CIWS till 2017's 1st Indian refit. Also if to be brought in, the "inspection-to-analysis-to-Govt level proposal-to-refit-to-commission" timeframe for HMS Ark Royal will be just appreciable. Instead of putting resources in any such acquisition, in-house programs for ACs should be vigorously incorporated keeping in mind the exact requirement of IN.
    Last edited by nrj; 17-12-10 at 07:16 PM.
    [SIZE="2"]Spock: If Romulans are an offshoot of my Vulcan blood, then attack becomes even more imperative.

    McCoy: War is never imperative.

    Spock: It is for them, Doctor. Vulcan, like Earth, had its aggressive colonizing period, savage even by Earth standards. If Romulans retain this martial philosophy, then we dare not show weakness.[/SIZE]

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    Member of the Year 2011 Kunal Biswas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parthy View Post
    am just looking for the fleets which we are desperately in need!! AC and an amphibious ship for Combined operations would boost our capability!!
    Our AC program is just good for now..
    Buying a Carrier from outside is expensive and it became more expensive when we try to refit it with foreign weapon..
    Regarding Amphibious Assualt ships which are good and cheap platform for Air reconnaissance and surveillance on high seas..

    800px Mistral mg 6102
    Mistral
    dokdo class l2
    SK `s Dokdo class amphibious assault ship

    c mg 8166 baja
    Spanish ship Juan Carlos I (L61)


    There are two more type with US!
    But again we cant use them in WAR time as per the deal..
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    Regular Member Yatharth Singh's Avatar
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    @armand-very nice put up mate.

    Yes acquiring decommissioned vessels is not a bad idea but it also it has it much more demerits too. The biggest is that it is decommissioned which, if we say normally is out of use, currently incapable or a waste for any armed force. No matter how much we modernize it but the basic frame and technology will not change and also it was used in earlier times so there may be some strategical disadvantages with it.
    Also we cant weaken our own indigenous projects by investing money into another heavy work. And too we must not forget the capabilities of our navy. Is it capable of operating 4-5 aircraft carriers by 2020, when the huge Russian Navy still operates only 1 AC(or maybe 2)? ok lets not compare our navy with any other`s but then there must be some logic behind acquiring any such a very 'heavy' vessel. IN is not a junkyard.
    We are developing many new vessels and I appreciate that because they are entirely "brand new" for the world plus indigenous which makes it more strong that an acquired 2nd hand product.
    IN WAR, THERE IS NO PRIZE FOR THE RUNNER UP.

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    Concept of Light carriers..

    Concept of Light carriers..

    I have been studying on light carriers and seems it have some potential in IN..


    800px Chakri Naruebet 2001
    Chakri Naruebet cost US$336 million to build.

    Light carriers not only can carry aircraft but also can be used as a assault ship..

    All is to do is increase the length with ski-jump and arrestor wires on the stern..
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    Senior Member Neil's Avatar
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    i think we are trying to depend to much on carriers....carriers are good as power projection and pack lethal punch but they are sitting duck for missiles and there is way to much cost involved in its protection-we dont just have to buy carriers but also destroyers frigates subs for protecting it....

    i would rather prefer more destroyers frigates or even cruisers which can carry more missiles and are not as costly as carriers....

    i think we need to discuss whether we want destroyers frigates or carriers.....??!!
    [GS]I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you ---- with me, I'll kill you all.[/GS]

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    Ray
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    MoD may sell aircraft carrier to India to limit cuts

    Government considering sale one of two £2bn machines as part of strategic defence review


    Tim Webb
    Monday 16 November 2009 17.08 GMT

    One of the Royal Navy's new £2bn aircraft carriers could be sold off under government cost-cutting plans, the Guardian has learned.

    It is understood that India has recently lodged a firm expression of interest to buy one of the two state-of-the-art 65,000 tonne carriers, which are still being built by BAE Systems in the UK.

    Any sale of the long-delayed carriers would be highly controversial and would leave the Royal Navy with just one carrier. It could also force Britain to borrow from the French navy, which itself only has one carrier and is reluctant to build any more.

    Last summer French president Nicolas Sarkozy proposed to Gordon Brown that the two navies co-ordinate the maintenance and retrofitting of their carriers, so that at least one of them is at sea at any time.

    The government has accepted it would cost more to cancel the contract for one of the carriers than it would to carry on building. BAE Systems is also keen to increase its arms exports and would welcome the sale of such a flagship piece of hardware to a country such as India, which is keen to upgrade its military, particularly its air force.

    According to senior defence sources, Whitehall officials are examining the feasibility of selling one of the carriers. It is understood they are planning to put forward the option as part of the government's strategic defence review, which will start early next year. The review will publish its conclusions after the general election. Whichever party wins the election, the review is expected to result in savage cuts to the UK's military budget.

    "Selling a carrier is one very serious option," a defence source said this weekend, although the government is a long way from committing to any sale. It could take between six and 12 months to reach a decision, he added.

    The £4bn aircraft carrier programme has been dogged by controversy and has become a totemic in the issue over how public spending – and in particular the military budget – should be cut. The programme has already been delayed by two years to push back spending commitments, which will end up costing the taxpayer more in the long run. Construction finally began in July on HMS Queen Elizabeth, which is due to come into service in 2016. Preparatory work on the HMS Prince of Wales, due for launch in 2018, has also started. The two carriers will replace the ageing Invincible class carrier fleet, and are three times the size.

    Military chief and the companies involved in building the carriers had feared the government could scrap one of the carriers altogether to save money. But it is understood that the financial penalties the government would be required to pay to BAE Systems, the company building the ships, would be prohibitive. The company is currently drawing up a formal estimate of the cost the government would incur from cancelling the order.

    About 10,000 jobs in Portsmouth, Barrow-in-Furness, Fife and Glasgow depend on the work. Now that construction of both carriers will almost certainly go ahead, the government is desperate to find other ways to cut costs.

    Another option under consideration is to only equip one of the carriers with aircraft, leaving the other to only operate with helicopters, which could save more than £3bn. Alternatively, the two carriers could share one complement of planes. The original plan envisaged equipping each carrier with 75 new US-made Joint Strike Fighter planes, but the cost has soared from the original price tag of £18m each.

    Asked about the plan for a sale of the one of the carriers, a spokeswoman for the Ministry of Defence said lots of options for the carriers were being considered, but stressed that no decision had been taken. "We have got the strategic defence review coming up, so all options are on the table," she said.

    The debate over whether British soldiers fighting in Afghanistan have the equipment they need – most notably enough helicopters to enable them to avoid heavily mined roads – has brought the issue of military spending to the fore. Military analysts say that the navy's budget, such as that earmarked for the carriers under review, is most vulnerable to cuts, compared to that of the army and air force.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...t-carrier-sale

    Why should the Indian Navy go for an old ship when she can get a new one?

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    Air Warrior Parthy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yatharth Singh View Post
    @armand-very nice put up mate.

    Yes acquiring decommissioned vessels is not a bad idea but it also it has it much more demerits too. The biggest is that it is decommissioned which, if we say normally is out of use, currently incapable or a waste for any armed force. No matter how much we modernize it but the basic frame and technology will not change and also it was used in earlier times so there may be some strategical disadvantages with it.
    Also we cant weaken our own indigenous projects by investing money into another heavy work. And too we must not forget the capabilities of our navy. Is it capable of operating 4-5 aircraft carriers by 2020, when the huge Russian Navy still operates only 1 AC(or maybe 2)? ok lets not compare our navy with any other`s but then there must be some logic behind acquiring any such a very 'heavy' vessel. IN is not a junkyard.
    We are developing many new vessels and I appreciate that because they are entirely "brand new" for the world plus indigenous which makes it more strong that an acquired 2nd hand product.
    ok that makes some justification.. what about having the amphibious assault ship??
    our [B]INDIA [/B]will stand against all odds to be a great Nation :namaste:

    We are the[B][SIZE="3"] Key to World Peace[/SIZE][/B] :thumb:

    We are the Nation who [FONT="Georgia"][SIZE="4"][B]do not believe in using Force[/B][/SIZE][/FONT] in resolving disputes. :hail:

    [SIZE="4"]Proud to be an Indian[/SIZE] :india:

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    Ray
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilay View Post
    i think we are trying to depend to much on carriers....carriers are good as power projection and pack lethal punch but they are sitting duck for missiles and there is way to much cost involved in its protection-we dont just have to buy carriers but also destroyers frigates subs for protecting it....

    i would rather prefer more destroyers frigates or even cruisers which can carry more missiles and are not as costly as carriers....

    i think we need to discuss whether we want destroyers frigates or carriers.....??!!
    If you subscribe to the magazines run by ex servicemen like 'Salute to the Indian Soldier' (Maroof Raza is the publisher) and 'Purple Beret' (Atul Bhardwaj is the Editor) there are extensive articles about the usefulness of an aircraft carrier, some of them being written by Adm Arun Prakash.

    As I see it, if you wish to target a port then an aircraft carrier would be an immense help than say a frigate or a destroyer.

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    Member of the Year 2011 Kunal Biswas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilay View Post
    i think we are trying to depend to much on carriers....

    carriers are good as power projection and pack lethal punch but they are sitting duck for missiles

    i think we need to discuss whether we want destroyers frigates or carriers.....??!!


    Yes, But its the only way IN can show it presence in Indian ocean also the surveillance is more than any other platform..

    Not necessarily, Carriers are meant for killing enemy vessels and ground target at long distances, Its impossible that any other single surface ship or a small fleet can engage a Carrier battle group..
    Also mentioning abt Carrier battle group it means when u have a carrier you need destroyer corvettes and frigates because without these u don't have a proper system..


    All of them:
    Destroyers : ASW & CIWS cover for the carrier
    Frigates: Fast Ships deigned to hunt or chase Submarines and Ships from Carrier groups..
    Carrier: Command and control center of the whole system..
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