Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[notinlove]

^^^ I do not understand what is your point?
1. T-72 has obsolete technology compared to the current generation of tanks.
2. T-72 can not fight in night.
3. It does not matter whether T-72 is imported or assembled in India. The technology will remain same.

So why IA want to invest so much to upgrade these T-72 tanks? If I am not wrong IA have more than 2400 T-72

It is like IAF spending millions of US $ for upgradtion of Mirage, instead of going for new Rafael.

so you mean we should induct 2400 arjun's and throw them out in 2025 because they will be obsolete??

 

[NSG_Blackcats]

so you mean we should induct 2400 arjun's and throw them out in 2025 because they will be obsolete??

Sir, any technology will be obsolete in 30 years. We are using T-72 for 30 years.
By the way I feel the Technology of Arjun MBT will not be obsolete in 15 years and we may see a mark II of Arjun.

So you want to say we should keep T-72 upgrading like we are doing with Mig21?

 

[p2prada]

The Arjuns can never fit the Indian doctrine as of today. Shukla ji is just riding on fanboyism and nationalism for his own goals, he needs to earn his daily bread after all. So, he only caters to the largest audience. Simple as that. His statements are very derogatory to the Generals who have served for decades protecting the interests of the country. So, give it a rest.

The simple fact is the Arjun's operation costs and logistics cannot be handled by army and this is not limited by costs or budget alone. All have seen Operation Parakram and have also noted that the the T-72s took nearly 4 weeks to be fully deployed. The deployment time of the Arjun will be even longer and this questions the abilities of the Arjun against less capable tanks. I would hate to think that the Pakistanis launched pre emptive assaults on Indian bases simply because the Arjun was a day late. So, our boys will be fighting Al-Khalids and other T-72 ripoffs while seeking support from the Airforce instead of our own tanks. The T-72s are the backbone of the Indian armour. Not even the Leopard -2s can fill that gap. So, forget the Arjun.

I would rather see DRDO burning than the IA burning. DRDO will get its chance in the future anyway. Our country will live for more than just a few decades. Maybe 20 years down the line or even a 100 years, DRDO can be the principle arms supplier to the Indian armed forces. I don't see why we have to rush it Right Now. And I definitely don't see why we have to achieve all of this in one life time alone.

 

[NSG_Blackcats]

The Arjuns can never fit the Indian doctrine as of today. Shukla ji is just riding on fanboyism and nationalism for his own goals, he needs to earn his daily bread after all. So, he only caters to the largest audience. Simple as that. His statements are very derogatory to the Generals who have served for decades protecting the interests of the country. So, give it a rest.

Every individual have right to earn his own bread and butter. Be it you , me or Ajai Shukla. You are right, Generals served for decades, but that does not mean we can not ask them questions. That also does not give them the right to get away with scams (like the recent Sukna land scam)

Sorry, for an off topic post. If MOD feel it is not right, they can delete this post.

 

[notinlove]

Sir, any technology will be obsolete in 30 years. We are using T-72 for 30 years.

Sirji, there is a difference between 30 year old T72's and 15 year old T72M1's .... i never said don't retire the 30 year old ones .. i am saying just don't retire the 15 year old ones.

By the way I feel the Technology of Arjun MBT will not be obsolete in 15 years and we may see a mark II of Arjun.

sirji if you yourself are saying we may see mark 2 of arjun is that not upgradation? the same thing we want for the t-72?? and how can you say it won't be obsolete ? some parts of it are already obsolete like the box shaped turret.

So you want to say we should keep T-72 upgrading like we are doing with Mig21?

100 Percent of mig-21's have overrun their orignal lifespan.not even 10 percent of t-72'2 have overrun their operational lifespan.how can you compare the two?

 

[NSG_Blackcats]

Sirji, there is a difference between 30 year old T72's and 15 year old T72M1's .... i never said don't retire the 30 year old ones .. i am saying just don't retire the 15 year old ones.

The Licensed production of the T-72M1 at Avadi, Chennai have ended in 1998. (If I am not wrong). So that is almost 12 years. During the licensed Period of 11 years some 1100 tanks are assembled. So the first 2/3 batches of T-72M1 were more than 20 years old. These T-72M1 were assembled in India. So the technology remains the same as that of the imported ones from Russia.

sirji if you yourself are saying we may see mark 2 of arjun is that not upgradation? the same thing we want for the t-72?? and how can you say it won't be obsolete ? some parts of it are already obsolete like the box shaped turret.

Mate,there is a difference between an up-gradation and a new version. I hope you understand. If we can do with upgrading older equipment than why IA invested in T-90?

100 Percent of mig-21's have overrun their orignal lifespan.not even 10 percent of t-72'2 have overrun their operational lifespan.how can you compare the two?

You mean to say only 10% of T-72 are more than 25/30 years old? I do not have the figures with me. So can not say on that.

 

[notinlove]

The Licensed production of the T-72M1 at Avadi, Chennai have ended in 1998. (If I am not wrong). So that is almost 12 years. During the licensed Period of 11 years some 1100 tanks are assembled. So the first 2/3 batches of T-72M1 were more than 20 years old. These T-72M1 were assembled in India. So the technology remains the same as that of the imported ones from Russia.

That is what i am saying, you look at it like its 12 years old and i am looking at the fact that it still has 20 years to go before it goes kaput.now the point is you don't throw away something unless its absolutely useless ... you upgrade it bring it to current levels and then use it till it can be. the difference we are talking about is 11.2 crore sir ji . that too without an era and maybe other systems, thats huge we cannot afford to waste the stuff available just because new stuff is on the market ..its like throwing your 3 year old santro in a gutter because there is a new honda civic in the market.

Mate,there is a difference between an up-gradation and a new version. I hope you understand. If we can do with upgrading older equipment than why IA invested in T-90?

look we are going in circles here. Mr. ajai shukla says retire all t-72's today and buy arjun and t-90 in its place and i am saying don't retire all just retire those that are more than 25 years old and bring the rest to current standards ..and which is exactly what the indian army is doing. wat is wrong with that? what you've got to understand is that it is a gradual process . it will take atleast 10-12 years to replace 2400 t-72 tanks and it is being done .. in the meanwhile if there is a war what would you rather have current t-72 or upgraded t-72?

You mean to say only 10% of T-72 are more than 25/30 years old? I do not have the figures with me. So can not say on that.

Yes, sirji according to Mr shukla itself only the first batch of the t-72 is 30 years old which would be anything between 50-100 that makes it not much more than 5 percent.

 

[gb009]

Are the 12 years ols T 72s better than the ones that were inducted first (30 or so years back). Did we do any upgrades to the newer T 72s to make them better. If no then its high time to get Arjun or upgrade them.

 

[sayareakd]

All the excuses for non induction of Arjun tank in sufficient numbers......

 

[p2prada]

Every individual have right to earn his own bread and butter.

Silly. Not at the cost of instigating the masses with false information. That is a punishable crime.

Be it you , me or Ajai Shukla. You are right, Generals served for decades, but that does not mean we can not ask them questions.

Ask all the questions you want. But, don't accuse them of being influenced by the Russian lobby without any proof.

That also does not give them the right to get away with scams (like the recent Sukna land scam)

It is being probed and a verdict will be reached. It has nothing to do with Arjun.

 

[p2prada]

So you want to say we should keep T-72 upgrading like we are doing with Mig21?

We should keep upgrading the T-72s like Mirage-2000 and Mig-29. Mig-21 cannot be compared.

 

[ppgj]

@notinlove

with all the latest upgrades you are talking about T-72's in our armoury, do you think they can surpass T-90S? Arjun surpasses even T-90 in almost all parameters. choose your pick.

 

[p2prada]

Are the 12 years ols T 72s better than the ones that were inducted first (30 or so years back). Did we do any upgrades to the newer T 72s to make them better. If no then its high time to get Arjun or upgrade them.

Can you research on the US Military and come back with their figures for latest tanks? Give me post 2000 figures.

Our 12 year old T-72s are indeed better than the ones bought 30 years back. The newer T-72s are getting kick azz upgrades which includes new FCS and communication systems and battle management systems that go in line with T-90s....Read project Rhino.

 

[Dark_Prince]

What about Tank EX? Based on T-72 and Arjun, Will it be an upgrade version of T-72 or totally a new tank?

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/Army/Galleries/Mod/MBT/Tank-Ex/0479.jpg.html

 

[ahmedsid]

I got a simple question, Why are our Army Bosses saying the T72 is Blind at night and then still going on with the upgrades? And How does our T72 match up with the PA T80 and Al Khalid??

I am all for T90s or Arjuns, But I dont think T72 is the future, it needs to be phased out. Our T90s need Shotra and we need the Arjun because we do need a behemoth I feel.

 

[notinlove]

@notinlove

with all the latest upgrades you are talking about T-72's in our armoury, do you think they can surpass T-90S? Arjun surpasses even T-90 in almost all parameters. choose your pick.

i have some questions ppgj please oblige by answering and please think from a neutral point of view on this one and keep the arjun out because we are not talking about t-72 vs arjun vs t-90 here.

1.is it feasible for india to buy 2400 arjuns or t-90's today? cost requirements=40328 crores just for the basics+ logistics and in case of arjun ERA and in case of t-90 fcs etc?
2.how long according to you will it take to replace 2400 tanks?
3.are they not replacing them by buying 1600 t-90 and 124 arjuns?
4.in case of a war what would be better a current T-72 or an upgraded one?

 

[notinlove]

I got a simple question, Why are our Army Bosses saying the T72 is Blind at night and then still going on with the upgrades? And How does our T72 match up with the PA T80 and Al Khalid??

I am all for T90s or Arjuns, But I dont think T72 is the future, it needs to be phased out. Our T90s need Shotra and we need the Arjun because we do need a behemoth I feel.

The upgrades are exactly for giving them eyes in the night.

after the upgrades they will be very much a match for both of those tanks.

 

[sayareakd]

The upgrades are exactly for giving them eyes in the night.

after the upgrades they will be very much a match for both of those tanks.

he he you must be joking...........right.......

 

[Dark_Prince]

I got a simple question, Why are our Army Bosses saying the T72 is Blind at night and then still going on with the upgrades? And How does our T72 match up with the PA T80 and Al Khalid??

I am all for T90s or Arjuns, But I dont think T72 is the future, it needs to be phased out. Our T90s need Shotra and we need the Arjun because we do need a behemoth I feel.

Sir, absolutely correct, they should rather buy more of T-90s to fill in the current Gap, and invest some in Arjun or Tank-EX development, if Tank-EX doesn't fulfill the requirements then go full on for T-95 (as some time would have passed) and leave everything behind!

Speculative Pics, official design to be revealed this year:

 

[ahmedsid]

The upgrades are exactly for giving them eyes in the night.

after the upgrades they will be very much a match for both of those tanks.

You mean to say, as of this moment, the T72 are sitting ducks in front of the T80s and AKs of the Paks?? And How much longer can this "Upgraded" T72 serve us? I mean, tearing it down, its a worn out tank from the 70s. Will the T70s stand up to the Anti Tank Missile scenarios in future Indo Pak conflicts? The Pakistanis know they cant kill us Tank Vs Tank, so they have built up Tank Vs Missile scenario. How will our Upgraded T72s come in?

In the Future conflicts, I feel a Tank should have an active protection system above all, and as of now, our T90 lacks a Shotra, if I am not mistaken. The future is the Arjun and T90, if not the Arjun only!