Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT)

[Bhadra]

Chennaiman wins defence award | Deccan Chronicle

DRDO needs to locate and utilise such people and promote them rather get bind with regionalism and social justice formulas of reservations...

Well done Thiru Munusamy....

 

[Kunal Biswas]

for developing and manufacturing high-pressure piston seals for the hydro-gas suspension system for Arjun Tank..

I am sure he meant hydropneumatic suspension..

 

[Akim]

I talk at once. I simply transferred this article from the Russian site.

The only chance to save Indian tank "Arjun"-installation of the turret from the T-90MS and Ukrainian 6td engine-5 power 1800 HP
The "LP" and most contradictory tank program of the world is the Indian attempt to create a national basic battle tank. As is generally known, the technical working of project began almost ...40 years ago!

The first prototype was built in 1984. And then began a perennial torment which got code denotation of "Arjun". As a result a fighting machine appeared with many so not cured illnesses and very mediocre technical and operating descriptions. When a sufficiently high mass could not provide reliable armour protection. A lot of problems caused the attempt to create its own engine. Firstly, yielding to the fashion of 70th on gas-turbine power-plants, hindus made an effort create the GTD in 1500 HP But all ended in failure.

It is necessary to mark that after the failure with Indian military have a persistent aversion to GTD, which only increased after engine failure of the tank t-80U on tests in the thar desert in 1993, however and the prosecutions of the Indian tank diesel were not set. A motor in any way did not want to give out the required power. As a result was to go to the bow to Germans.

Despite the mass of 58 tonnes in its protection of the tank does not correspond to modern requirements. 120-mm rifled gun is also considered to be obsolete. The hydropneumatic suspension delivers a lot of hassle. The fire control system corresponds to the level 80-h godov. And, so, is it any wonder that the Indian military, despite protests from Indian lobbyists from MIC, prefer a more simple and reliable T-90s .
In its current form, "Arjun" Mk.I practically by any recommendation can not be considered modern, it is significantly inferior to Al-Khalid and the Chinese Type 99. Realizing this, the Indian engineers are trying to modernize their brainchild. However, the measures are unlikely to significantly improve the tank. It was grandiloquently declared that in the version of Мк.2 Mk 2 version. "" "get the latest Arjun active/reactive armor," which actually turned out to be another version of the Soviet armour (ERA) "Kontakt-5", installed on the T-90s. The features of construction of turret of the Indian tank do not allow normally to set this ERA,as a result defence turned out was great "holes".

Designers should consider the use of guided missiles launched through the barrel of the gun, but, in General, the gun did not lose the existing shortcomings. The Indian military has promised to produce a new modification of the tank in two years. But it is already clear that even more the improved form, no breakthroughs are expected. Only the weight of the tank to increase significantly (approximately 65 tons), and its cost, which would be a record for the machine-more than 8 million$.

Therefore to the hindus, successfully to compete with new versions of Pakistani and Chinese tanks, it is necessary, that is named, to tread on the throat of own song. Currently, the Indian military, not believing that began with "Arjun" mk 2 will bring something positive, look closely to modernized T-90MS. And it is not excluded that a decision will be made on the purchase of this tank.
Therefore more logical to unify both fighting machines on battle separations. The more so the turret of the upgraded T-90 can be easily installed on the chassis "Arjun".

Thanks to this new version of the tank its protection, firepower, FCS will not in anything yield to the best western machines.
There were reports in MASS-MEDIA, that hindus are not quite content with the praised German motors. And here there is a way out. Hindus should pay attention to Ukrainian diesel engines, in particular, the 6TD-5 with planned capacity of 1800 HP, with a corresponding desire to bring the engine up to the mind can be in relatively short spaces, and while as a temporary measure it is possible to set 6TD-3 in 1400 HP.

As a result of these innovations will be fighting vehicle, which by its characteristics can meet the requirements of the future.

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[Kunal Biswas]

^^
Bashing article on open media, Most should take it with pinch of salt..

Though One correct thing they talked that Arjun can be updated with Ukrainian engine which was shown in Def-expo 2012, Nothing new..

 

[Shaitan]

Wow! What an old picture of the Arjun tank!! Thanks..

 

[Akim]

^^
Bashing article on open media, Most should take it with pinch of salt..

Though One correct thing they talked that Arjun can be updated with Ukrainian engine which was shown in Def-expo 2012, Nothing new..

I also do not agree with the article, but we have a proverb "From the song of words will not abort" («С песни слов не выкинешь). And many "experts" of the Russian tank sites lean against this site.

 

[p2prada]

There are a few problems here.

The Ukranian engine option is very good. But we have an indigenous or semi indigenous option available today. The numbers we are procuring will not be good enough for ToT and won't reduce the tanks massive price tag either.

The ERA is indeed Kontakt-5, and will be replaced by an Indian equivalent, or rather a reverse engineered K-5 when the Mk2 is ready. He is right about the ERA placement, it is not large enough to properly cover the vehicle. You can call it haphazard and shoddy. For reference anybody can check the latest upgrades with ERA and NERA packages on western tanks.

Leo 2A7

I think everybody has already seen the T-90MS.

The hydro-gas suspensions seem to be working fine now. There were issues earlier, but I suppose they were fixed with the current upgrade program.

As for FCS and tank electronics, I am pretty sure it is as good as anything on western tanks simply because the technology was sourced from Israel or jointly developed by BEL and Israeli companies. The high cost of the tank includes the costs for the Iron Fist APS. Lastly, I would like to point out that the current pictures are a slightly modified Arjun Mk1 and not Arjun Mk2. The final product is yet to come out and will be better than what we are seeing now.

@Damian,

I think you posted them before, but can you post pics of CR2 with the new ERA package again and the M1 with the TUSK upgrade.

 

[p2prada]

I also do not agree with the article, but we have a proverb "From the song of words will not abort" («С песни слов не выкинешь). And many "experts" of the Russian tank sites lean against this site.

I agree. That part where the author wants to mate the Arjun chassis with the T-90s turret is plain dumb.

We had one similar project which did the exact opposite though. Tank-Ex.

It was a R&D project from DRDO. But I don't know what they were experimenting.

Ex stands for Experimental.

 

[cobra commando]

I talk at once. I simply transferred this article from the Russian site.


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Hindu Tank Bad..not good..Rusky tank Strong like ox! where's my vodka!

 

[Damian]

Hindu Tank Bad..not good..Rusky tank Strong like ox! where's my vodka!

Arjun Mk1 have it's weaknesses, very well known to all people that are long enough on this forum. If these weaknesses will be fixed in Arjun Mk2, nobody knows, for India hopefully yes, but there is a doubt after seeing test beds and prototypes.

As for T-90MS, it is very capable machine, high quality one, that can without a problem compete with Arjun Mk1/Mk2, weighting only 48 tons, it would be definetly very interesting alternative for IA, compared to Arjun that starts to weight over 60 tons, and does not offer more modern and more efficent protection.

 

[p2prada]

Current military electronics are built based on 65nm and 40nm technology. Size does not automatically reduce and it takes time. Earlier tech was based on 130nm. India moved to 40nm very recently from 180nm.

The Americans are already moving on from 40nm to 32nm and maybe 22nm technology while companies like Intel and AMD are already releasing 22nm products and designing 14nm products to be released next year.

nm is Nanometres and the measure is used as a standard for Semiconductor manufacturing process which is basically the distance between the Source and the Drain on a semiconductor based Transistor.

In electronics civilian technology will always be a step ahead of military technology while the design of hardware and software will be of a much larger scale in the military. So, can't compare your smartphone to an electronic component in a tank, the smartphone is ahead. Civilian technology allows evolution of hardware very quickly, but due to the nature of military hardware, the evolution will be much slower and hence technology absorption will always remain a step behind.

When it comes to Russia, there were two choices earlier. The Russian/Soviet armed forces's electronic equipment was always inferior in technology to the export version. This is because while the Russian armed forces were forced to purchase inferior technology from the local industry the export countries could choose COTS technology from companies like Texas Instruments or Samsung. Now things are changing. Meaning Russian companies are ripping off chips and processors from larger corporations and building equipment that is of the same quality as the west. Also, export products still have the option of choosing western COTS technology.

So, the Russians are already catching up to the west while the Chinese are already there. So, what is lacking right now is design of the circuits(called architecture) and the software. While the Russians are already good at it, the Chinese are learning really fast. Of course the success of a design is up to many factors and there is such a thing as the "best" design. The very reason why a smaller company like AMD was ahead of Intel for quite some time with their 64 bit processors until the "i" series of processors were released. So, the best design is subjective to how good the system is with respect to the quality and function, it's power consumption, reliability and durability along with the money spent on it. The Americans spend more, so they are the best at it.

Regardless of such differences, the Russians have been keeping pace with foreign analogues including American. But when it comes to making smaller electronic designs, they are all at very similar places. So, there is a reason why Russian PESA radars are quite close in performance with American AESA radars, especially when it comes to aspects like gain and noise while maintaining a similar size and weight in relation to performance.

So, if anybody is expecting smaller and smaller electronics then they will have to wait at least a decade before the technology is implemented and proven. The civilian companies can take risks and it provides publicity when something new is released. For eg: The Samsung Galaxy S3 is based on 22nm technology compared to the some of the competitors 32nm processes. Nvidia was talking about how the 22nm is actually a waste of time and is not yet required for their industry due to no significant decrease in price. So, there is a bit of time delay implementing or replacing proven military technology with something not proven.

As told before, current military technology is based on 40nm and 32nm technology. 22nm is a very recent phenomenon. It took defence companies 7 years to move from 90nm to 32nm today, 10 years for India. Comparatively it took 3 years for the civilians, and only 1 year to move from 32 to 22nm. Next year is 14nm. Japanese are already experimenting with 10nm. Beyond this there are major physical limitations to technology and will take companies more than just a decade to move to more advanced processes. So, electronics are as compact as can be for the military industry for at least another 5 years or a decade. You can't expect it to become smaller and smaller on a whim, or quantum tunneling with kill it faster than a nuclear bomb.

 

[Akim]

I thought here, and why India of вобще needs to spend the billions of dollars on your MBT?
Neither the Chinese nor the Pakistani tanks, cardinally will not become better than the Russian tanks.
Arjun on export would not go-too many competitors, and buying it just for its army not profitable.
But you don't have the tank for "Highlands", little of the armor vehicle for the mountains – maybe it is needed thereon to concentrate efforts of your engineers?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I thought here, and why India of вобще needs to spend the billions of dollars on your MBT?, Neither the Chinese nor the Pakistani tanks, cardinally will not become better than the Russian tanks. Arjun on export would not go-too many competitors, and buying it just for its army not profitable.But you don't have the tank for "Highlands", little of the armor vehicle for the mountains – maybe it is needed thereon to concentrate efforts of your engineers?

@Akim

1. In War Men need continues supply of material to the field one cannot relay on imports for that..

2. Home made tank can be modified as per our need, It technology can be enhanced in country which is not easy with licensed tanks..

3. Presently Chinese tanks may not pose a serious thread but they are progressing well, We cannot use the word never..

4. Regarding Mountain DRDO did made a tank with 105mm cannon on BMP, Which was old and rejected now Army want 120mm Light tank and there is a RFI launched..

5. Home made tank priority first to equipped the Army than it can book orders from outside..

6. Home made tank is targeted for Army mainly not outside, I cannot comment about business aspect..


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India is taking Small steps towards Indigenous Industry which is small but quite active, For such a huge army to run in long war, Its supply have to be from Inside..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank MK2 CITV technology..

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Arjun MK2 first Prototype with new panoramic sight at Rajasthan.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Link:

Bangalore-based Serial Innovations bets big on defence; provides technology to drones, Arjun tanks - The Economic Times

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...nce-provides-technology-drones-arjun-mbt.html

 

[Kunal Biswas]

A Old Pic Of Arjun Crossing Man Made Canal....

 

[Shaitan]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank MK2 CITV technology..

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Arjun MK2 first Prototype with new panoramic sight at Rajasthan.

Panoramic sights - Sagem


The green panoramic sight is French.

The panoramic sight on Arjun there looks different than the French one. Maybe from the same source, it's hard to tell.

 

[sayareakd]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank MK2 CITV technology..

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Arjun MK2 first Prototype with new panoramic sight at Rajasthan.

Kunal Arjun at the last pic was made and inducted in 2006, you can see the serial number at the back of tank. So they have only tested the tank sight on old tank.

 

[p2prada]

Re: Arjun Main Battle Tank MK2 CITV technology..

Kunal Arjun at the last pic was made and inducted in 2006, you can see the serial number at the back of tank. So they have only tested the tank sight on old tank.

I told many times. It is only an old Mk1 with some Mk2 technologies. The actual Mk2 is still under construction.

 

[sayareakd]

I told many times. It is only an old Mk1 with some Mk2 technologies. The actual Mk2 is still under construction.

P2p can you back your statement that mk-2 is still under construction? Or you can guarantee your statement.