Indian Army Artillery

[Dinesh_Kumar]

Dear Sirs,

Artillery Development in India has been at slow pace up till now. This we all agree is very unfortunate, and such situation should not have happened. What I understand is that after 1962 war, many efforts were made, results were seen in the 1970s and 1980s. Various artillery projects and innovations took place such as:

i) 25 Pounder / 75mm Gun localization and production by OFB.

ii) 105mm Indian Field Gun, a very modern piece at that time, based on British design, very capable with 17km range.

iii) A Light Field Gun 105mm, weight less that 2500 kg, based on above IFG.

iv) Production of various shells, rockets and fuzes in OFB.

However from the 1980s onwards, somehow, no new products were being made. Even with the computerization drive in this decade, and information available more freely, somehow we missed the bus. We had another chance with Bofors drawings and technical information available to us, and have recently taken it up, but so far indegenisation levels are at 70 % (from what I read, the Axillary Power Unit and Gun Carriage tech was not given to us. Even today, Army Directorate website has various components waiting to be indegenised - like filters, hydraulic valves, etc.).

However, in other fields, like rocketry, space systems and super computers, we have made better progress. Artillery systems may be complex, but nowhere as challenging as in Space Control Systems, Guidance Units, Ring Laser Gyroscopes, Large Diameter Solid Boosters of maraging steel, Massive Supercomputer Parallel Processing Units, etc.

Another way of seeing it is like this: -

In Asia, countries having Indigenous heavy artillery are Iran, North Korea, Israel, Iraq (Al Hussein SP Howitzer i think), Turkey, Japan, China and Singapore. Even Pakistan has some programmes.

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

.........Continued from above post.......

Singapore doesn't even have a firing test range,while we have several (I believe IA has at Pokhran, School of Arty has one at Deoali, Various DRDO labs have) yet has been able to produce 2 designs of 155mm pieces, one regular and other light weight.

One country which has made great strides is Iran. I remember reading few years back that their Kilo class was sent here for maintenance. Now that has stopped, and 3 designs of Submarines have been made, including a 800 ton class boat. They have made local versions of S-75 SAMs with long range radar, Self Propelled Arty based on M 109, and brought down US stealth drones.

Other countries have also progressed.

No, I feel that we are also on the verge of a breakthrough. I think we are at the last mile, and soon will be good news.

I also request our Pakistani friends on the forum to update on Arty status in Pakistan. They are good especially in SP pieces, Artillery radars, etc. We also should at least have some parity in these areas.

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

To above list of countries in Asia with artillery tech, I also include South Korea.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Good observation, But keep this thread about our Army arty pices ..

Since 80s we rely on massive imports from soviats, 130mm m46 is a good example so does grad 122mm, Indegenious devlopment was never a prority in our country coz it has no large kickbacks, 2 million strong army had to rely on majority of imports which is not a solution for our size and varity of terrain..

Now, after waiting for last 30 years we were able to induct mass arty pices with home made and that is within 6 months..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

1. Those are OFB 155mm Metamorphosis upgrade..

2. That is formation number..

Couple of Queries :

i) Above 155mm gun pic by Abhi9, is it the Soltam "Up gunned" M-46 130mm or OFB "Metamorphosis? "

ii) No. 423 painted on both guns means "423 Medium Regiment?"

Thanks

 

[bengalraider]

That is highly unlikely, the design of K9 turret prohibits such modifications..

It can be that K9 gun will be on Bhim instead of Daneal`s ?

It's the gun as you said!~

 

[Dinesh_Kumar]

@ Kunal Biswas

Dada, some queries

1. Desi Bofors trials from OFB, is it successful?

It seems Army committed that if successful, they will buy 144 nos, as a initial order.

2. Is this155mm x 39 caliber with 80% indegenised or 155mm x 45 caliber with 60 % indegenised?

3. Info on internet says that 45 Caliber has same recoil system and brakes as 39 caliber, with barrel changed but local development.My understanding on this was same carriage and APU unit as 39 caliber could be used. Also, BEL has localized entire electronics and computers for the gun, and advertised same on brochure during one of the defence fairs - 2011 I think. So what is additional imported content on 45 caliber?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Good observation on your part about these projects..

Army Ordered 45cal guns, I cannot say much on 39cal..

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To my Knowledge, They one call imported content are older FH-77 which are basically getting the upgrade to 45cal and the one made in India are based on FH-77 design but with 45cal barrel..

Small number of imports are there in case of rare metals and other minor elements..

Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Ministry of Defence
29-April-2013 18:46 IST
Test of Guns
Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) has carried out several internal firings of their in house developed 155mm x 45 calibre Artillery Gun and it has met the planned objectives. However, User Test Fire is yet to be carried out.
OFB has received indent for 114 Nos. of 155mm x 45 calibre Artillery guns which are to be delivered as per following delivery schedule:

SI.No.	From	To	No. of Guns	Remarks
1.	T*	T+8	6	*T is the date of accord of Bulk Production Clearance.
2.	T+9	T+12	12
3.	T+13	T+24	36
4.	T+25	T+36	60
		Total	114

This information was given by Minister of state for Defence Shri Jitendra Singh in a written reply to Shri Rakesh Singh in Lok Sabha today.


HS/HH/RK

url=http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=95272

@ Kunal Biswas

Dada, some queries

1. Desi Bofors trials from OFB, is it successful?

It seems Army committed that if successful, they will buy 144 nos, as a initial order.

2. Is this155mm x 39 caliber with 80% indegenised or 155mm x 45 caliber with 60 % indegenised?

3. Info on internet says that 45 Caliber has same recoil system and brakes as 39 caliber, with barrel changed but local development.My understanding on this was same carriage and APU unit as 39 caliber could be used. Also, BEL has localized entire electronics and computers for the gun, and advertised same on brochure during one of the defence fairs - 2011 I think. So what is additional imported content on 45 caliber?

 

[sayareakd]

Kunal sir hope this news will make you happy

Livefist: Indian Army Announces Mounted Gun Competition

In the latest of the Army's long and tragicomic endeavour to give its artillery regiments new guns -- the first in 25 years since the Bofors scandal -- it has now officially announced interest [PDF] in a new 155mm/52cal mounted gun system, a gun mounted on a wheeled vehicle. The Army is known to need at least 814 of this type of gun, a requirement that has twisted and turned between struggling life and sudden death for more than a decade. As expected, the Army has also made it clear that the systems contending for the contract need to fielded by Indian vendors. Among a host of systems likely to be fielded by companies like L&T, Bharat Force and Mahindra Land Systems, the Tata SED mounted gun system (first revealed by colleague Sandeep Unnithan last year) will also participate. More details soon

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I was about to post it...

Kunal sir hope this news will make you happy

Livefist: Indian Army Announces Mounted Gun Competition

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TATA-DENEL

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L&T - Ceaser 155mm

There are rest, But there Indian Partners are unknown..

 

[ladder]

I was about to post it...

I think you posted some-where else that Tata-Denel Howitzer has low chamber volume capacity than the rest?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Yes, Denel are not selling there best Gun with TATA but its comparable to what Slovakian are offering and may be others too..

I think you posted some-where else that Tata-Denel Howitzer has low chamber volume capacity than the rest?

 

[ladder]

^^^^^^
It's clear that in w.r.t defense equipment money alone can't buy you the best in the market.
It's time DRDO and related agencies invest more time and money on creating technologies for non-critical sectors like this also.( I am aware of DRDO 155/ 52 howitzer program.)
JV's are good but as you pointed out are not simply the best.
We had enough experience with monkey model aka export model.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Details On TATA gun >>

According to specs, It has 23 liter chamber Not 25

From VLAP Projectile PDF, The range is limited with 23 liter chamber

VLAP range with 155mm-52cal-23liter gun is 58kms not 55km..

TATA gun is 23liter Chamber size so it wont archive 71km range but 58km..

I think you posted some-where else that Tata-Denel Howitzer has low chamber volume capacity than the rest?

 

[ladder]

Details On TATA gun >>



VLAP range with 155mm-52cal-23liter gun is 58kms not 55km..

TATA gun is 23liter Chamber size so it wont archive 71km range but 58km..

Is there any relation between chamber capacity and life of a howitzer barrel?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Good Point, I think that directly relates to thickness and metallurgy of the barrel to endure higher pressure..

Without doing that, the barrel life will be lower..

Is there any relation between chamber capacity and life of a howitzer barrel?

 

[TrueSpirit]

I was about to post it...



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There are rest, But there Indian Partners are unknown..

Are there any front-runners yet, among these contenders in each category ? I mean, preferred choice of IA/Def-Min etc. ?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Swedish archer, But is that participating or not or if does how is its Indian partner is unknown..

Are there any front-runners yet, among these contenders in each category ? I mean, preferred choice of IA/Def-Min etc. ?

 

[TrueSpirit]

Swedish archer, But is that participating or not or if does how is its Indian partner is unknown..

OK, is Archer being preferred because of the commonality factor with our existing guns ? I mean, specifications-wise (firing range, weight, operational range, speed & firepower), Ceaser seems more impressive.

After seeing some OEM videos on youtube (3-4 years ago), I used to think earlier, that Ceaser is the best in its category. Not sure if that is still valid.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

IA is familiar with the system ( FH-77 ), the gun is bofors B05 which is modern 52cal version of 39cal FH-77..

The Gun of Archer B05 is also have 25 liter chamber volume..

OK, is Archer being preferred because of the commonality factor with our existing guns ? I mean, specifications-wise (firing range, weight, operational range, speed & firepower), Ceaser seems more impressive. .