India-China Relations

[mahesh]

Yes this is the latest incursion by chinese. In recent times Chinese also used their side of local tribe to settle in our side to claim the land.

Sent from my irisX8 using Tapatalk

 

[IndianHawk]

Make shift bunkers...

Probably bulldozed them I'm guessing.

Make shift i.e. made of stones placed one above other. They remove them from hands. So do we.

 

[captonjohn]

Can anyone summarize what did Indian army do in response to Chinese incursion?

 

[Cutting Edge 2]

Chinese daily warns investors against anti-China sentiment in India
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

China Will Have To Take 'Military Way' If India Doesn't Listen: Chinese Media
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/chin...if-india-doesnt-listen-chinese-expert-1720367

China deploys submarine in Indian Ocean Region even as India-China standoff continues
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...ean-region-india-china-standoff/1/993606.html

 

[Kalki_2018]

china is shitting bricks now Malabar exercise is starting next week. They will try their best to suck up to Putin, but Russia I believe is very astute and will not militarily interfere. They will milk china for money since chinese have not really helped in syria.

 

[Suryavanshi]

China's mental Gymnastic is entertaining to say the least

 

[JohnX]

How India’s Left Is Helping China Get Closer To Israel

https://swarajyamag.com/politics/how-indias-left-is-helping-china-get-closer-to-israel

SNAPSHOT




Through manufactured dissent and by inciting Islamist vote-bank politics, the left-wing movement is trying to create uncertainty in the budding India-Israel relations.


The year 1992 will be remembered for many important world events. The demolition of the Berlin Wall was completed that year. It was also the year when India and China established full diplomatic relations with Israel. Since then, they have vied for technological collaboration with the Jewish state, not only in military but also, more importantly, in agriculture. Prakash Nanda, in his recent article in First Post, has shown in detail how China has so far defeated India in the race for techno-economic collaboration with Israel. Here is the operational part of the article:

“As of today, with an annual trade volume of over US $11 billion, China is Israel's largest trading partner in Asia and third largest in the world. China has surpassed even the United States as the top funder of joint ventures in Israel involving foreign companies, including Israel's famed hi-tech startup companies. Chinese investment into Israel jumped more than tenfold to a record $16.5 billion last year, with money flooding into the country's buzzing internet, cyber-security and medical device start-ups. In contrast, India's annual trade with Israel is still around $5 billion ($ 4.5 billion in 2016), though this figure excludes the defence sector. … In other words, China is way ahead of India in utilising the Israeli-connection in trade and investment.”

The advantageous strides that China has made over India with respect to relations with Israel owes much to the left wing Nehruvian political ecosystem in India.

Every time the issue of India-Israel relations comes up, the left wing, particularly the Communist Party of India – Marxist (CPI-M) raises a hysterical pro-Palestinian protest voice and threatens to tar any overt Indian gesture as anti-Muslim. Even Maoist China, the supposedly true fatherland of Marxists, has silently watered down the Palestinian issue for a better cooperation with Israel, particularly in arms trade.

As China and Israel started normalising relations, Israel's arms sale to China in nineties and 2000s started having an effect on Chinese policy makers. In the words of academician Zhiqun Zhu, “The burgeoning relations between China and Israel have already had some effect on other policies. In the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, China has taken a more balanced position now than its pro-Palestine stand in the past." (China's New Diplomacy: Rationale, Strategies and Significance, 2013, p.59)

Even the support of the Arab cause by China was more for pragmatic reasons than for any real ideological concerns. A 2009 RAND report on China's international behaviour points out that in the eighties and nineties, the main feature of China's Middle East diplomacy was “arms sales to the region, aside from rhetorically touting Arab causes” which was “largely for profit”. (Evan S Medeiros, 'China's International Behavior: Activism, Opportunism, and Diversification', p.161)

In all these, China has put pragmatism and national geo-interests in the forefront. For it, the so-called Palestinian cause, as well as the relations with Israel, is both tools for furthering its own self-interest and power. In this competition for beneficiary relations with Israel, India could have emerged as a strong competitor and also a favoured civilisational partner with Israel. After all, India and Israel are old civilisations and young nation-states. They are home to ancient people who have faced persecution from common expansionist enemies. Further, India has been the historical home to the Jews who came here, where perhaps in the entire world, it was the only place where Jews knew no anti-Semitic persecutions.

So naturally, the Jewish state repeatedly sought the friendship of India. Unfortunately, the Nehruvian myopic vision coupled with the left-Islamist hatred for Israel led to India behaving in a schizophrenic way more than once. Indian leaders had, now it has come out, sought Israeli help during crises. However, they refused to acknowledge this help, leave alone establishing full diplomatic ties.

In hindsight, one feels that the left wing forces could have had a role in this, at least after the Cold War, to facilitate China taking over the natural advantage India had in establishing good relations with Israel.

The CPI (M) has consistently been the voice of China’s geo-strategic concerns in India. Criticising the Malabar joint India-US joint naval exercises, CPI (M) leader Prakash Karat writing in People’s Democracy, the official voice of the party pointed out that the aim of the exercise was “to contain China”. Then he declared: “Such a strategic military tie up with the United States is harmful for India’s strategic independence and autonomy. India should not become a cog in the US military strategy in Asia. All patriotic and anti-imperialist forces should oppose the staging of the Malabar exercises.” (30 September 2015)

Again, Karat took the Narendra Modi government to task in People's Democracy for not being part of the One Belt One Road (OBOR) project of China. That China, by building the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor that passes through Gilgit, a part of PoK, has clearly violated the sovereignty of India, does not matter to CPI (M). In a cold, neutral way, ‘comrade’ Karat states that Gilgit “is a part of Kashmir claimed by India which has been under Pakistan’s control since 1947”. But China has clarified that it is a bilateral issue, he says. Then the ‘true fatherland’ cat is out of the box. “It is a fact that the execution of the infrastructure and connectivity projects under the BRI will be advantageous for China”, he writes, and yet he laments that “it is a pity that India is being kept out of this historic venture due to its blinkered government.” (2 July 2017)

Target: India-Israel Strategic Ties

In other words, the CPI (M) and its media associates are the forces in India which have accepted Chinese colonisation of India in principle. And they await their masters’ arrival perhaps through economic domination or perhaps through other means. It is in this context that we should see the sustained and targeted attack of the party on India-Israel relations.

For CPI (M) the attacks on Israel serve two interlinked purposes.

As pointed out by a 2009 report by India Today, it helps the party to consolidate its position with the radicalised Islamist forces in Kerala, where the Marxists are yet a strong political entity. While aligning itself with radical Islamists like Abdul Nasser Madhani, the party specifically targeted Israel becoming India’s second largest strategic partner. (‘CPI(M) invokes Israel factor to consolidate among the Muslims’, India Today, 1 April 2009)

The 2012 resolution CPI (M) passed on ‘Palestine’ specifically targeted India-Israeli joint space ventures and rhetorically associated it with alleged targeted elimination of terrorist leaders by Israeli services. The resolution points out that “first under the BJP-led NDA Government and subsequently the two UPA Governments, India has built close security and military ties with Israel. India is now the largest buyer of arms from Israel and buys more than even the Israeli armed forces. India's launching Israeli spy satellites and joint research with Israel on missiles and drones must be seen against the background of the targeted assassinations that Israel routinely carries out using such drones and spy satellites. All this makes India complicit in Israel’s occupation of Palestine, in contradiction to its avowed policy of support to the Palestinian cause.”

In July 2014 the CPI (M) wanted Parliament to pass a resolution condemning Israel to which the Modi government did not oblige. People’s Democracy launched a scathing attack on the Indian government in its editorial, pointing out that India is the “largest buyer of Israeli armaments”, and asking people to “pressurise this BJP-led NDA government to immediately stop India’s purchase of Israeli defence equipment”. Once again the stand of CPI (M) was well tuned to benefit China.

It does not need a scholar in strategic studies to see that the common thread in all these is the targeting of India-Israeli collaboration in arms and space technologies, which China considers as an advantage that has been taken away from it.

Advice Only To Motherland And Never To The Only Fatherland

The CPI (M) and Communist Party of China regularly exchange delegations and praise each other. CPI (M) leader Sitaram Yechuri regularly visits China and hold talks with the highest authorities of power. In 2015, when he visited, none other than the Chinese President briefed him about the OBOR project. Without raising any question about the road passing through Gilgit which is part of PoK, Yechuri wanted China to include India’s spice route into its own ambitious Maritine Silk Route project (‘Communist Party of China values ties with CPI(M)’, The Hindu, 21 October 2015).

So CPI (M) will create hurdles in India-Israel relations by creating a bad public perception and inciting Islamists by insinuating India as being complicit in the alleged atrocities of Israel. At the same time, it will remain perfectly silent on China, about its own relations with Israel, though the party enjoys with China ideological relations and frequent visits.

Now, with Modi’s visit to Israel, CPI (M) and related media have started the attack on the budding India-Israel relations. It is not only the overtly party-affiliated People’s Democracy that is attacking India-Israel relations. In an interestingly strategic move Al Jazeera got Vijay Prasad of LeftWord publishing house to write blistering attacks on Modi. He is introduced as one who “edited ‘Letters to Palestine: Writers Respond to War and Occupation.” And as the “Chief Editor of LeftWord Books, which published From India to Palestine: Letters in Solidarity, edited by Githa Hariharan, he has an essay.” What it did not tell the readers is that LeftWord is a commercial publishing venture owned by none other than CPI (M) (The Hindu, 15 May 2000). Githa Hariharan also is one of the convenors of the Indian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel. The web of breaking India forces and anti-Israel forces operating in India, have many common names. Formed in 2010, the organisers say that “in response to the Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel” they “have come together to form the India Chapter of this international movement.”

All these movements overtly look like they are supporting a humanitarian cause (which in itself is to be questioned). However, most of the signatories can also be found in petitions supporting Maoists and mercy petitions for jihadists like Yakub Memon. Again, the agenda is very clear. Through manufactured dissent and by inciting Islamist vote bank politics, they create a schizophrenic uncertainty in the budding India-Israeli relations. This ultimately helps China to move forward. The very fact that most of these ‘humanitarians’ never care to launch a boycott of China’s over its cultural genocide of Tibetans and its measures in occupied Tibetan territories is proof enough for this – if at all proof is needed.

 

[JohnX]

China must see reason

http://www.thehansindia.com/posts/index/Editorial/2017-07-07/China-must-see-reason/310778

Boundary disputes are never irreconcilable, nor vital interests non-negotiable. During Jawaharlal Nehru's era, India had the McMahon Line, and China the road. But, Nehru, as was his wont, never believed in negotiations with China on the boundary disputes, despite China offering to respect McMahon Line, because he steadfastly believed in the dictum that negotiations meant compromises. "It may take five, ten or thirty years…for India to settle the dispute with China,” he said referring to the conflict with China. Today, the same question haunts us again as China ratchets up the border issue.




However, both the countries need to ask themselves some soul-searching questions at least now. What are the legitimate interests that are not reconcilable with each other's interests? What motivated China and what were its objectives in launching the military offensive on October 20, 1962? Why did India launch "The Forward Policy" in 1961 which could have provoked China to launch the aggression? Despite harboring devious plans to establish its military dominance over India, China raises the heat now, accusing India of transgression and violation of 'Panchsheel.' Prime Minister Narendra Modi's strong leadership and his emerging popularity due to his deft foreign moves have not been welcome to China at all and makes it forget that the Sino-Indian problem is a historical legacy with the entire Indian northern frontier remaining an unfinished business.

Three trijunctions are yet to be defined. The boundary agreement between India and Burma only qualifies that "the exact location of which Northern extremity will remain provisional pending its final determination.” This cannot be decided unless the three countries, India, Myanmar and China, come together. Then there is this China-Nepal border protocol, leaving the two trijunctions in Sikkim and Pithoragarh district unclear.

These were also excluded by both the countries from the physical survey. India did not take part in the negotiations. China has been silently working to strengthen its military infrastructure all around since 1962. Its belligerence and intolerance towards those who question the rationale behind its aggressions is on the rise now-a-days and the latest Sino-Indian stand-off must be seen from this context. For China, a peaceful settlement means humble submission by its neighbour and to build a public consensus, it uses its state-controlled media mouths.

It is unable to swallow the emergence of a strong contender such as India in the neighborhood. Be it on the issue of Dalai Lama or on the OBOR, it feels belittled by India's stance and, hence, coercion now. It does not want any axis to develop against its interests and suspects India is capable of building one. That is why it prefers to keep Indian borders simmering, by itself as well by Pakistan in the West. It's agitated over the contents of the latest Indo-US Joint Statement too, which puts India and the USA on the same page with respect to dealing with the rapidly growing influence and presence of China in the Indian Ocean and Indo-Pacific region. Hope reason prevails and China, instead, walks its cooperative developmental talk. In modern warfare, there are going to be no winners, after all!

 

[Villager]

India Planning Missile To Target All Of China From South Bases: US Report


WASHINGTON:
HIGHLIGHTS

1. India has 120-130 warheads, plans to modernise nuclear arsenal: US report
2. India's nuclear strategy shifting from Pak to China, the report claims
3. Missile with range covering all of China from South Indian bases in works

India continues to modernise its atomic arsenal with an eye on China and the country's nuclear strategy which traditionally focused on Pakistan now appears to place increased emphasis on the Communist giant, two top American nuclear experts have said.

An article published in the July-August issue of the digital journal - After Midnight - has also claimed that India is now developing a missile which can target all of China from its bases in South India.

India is estimated to have produced enough plutonium for 150-200 nuclear warheads but has likely produced only 120-130, wrote Hans M Kristensen and Robert S Norris in the article - "Indian nuclear forces 2017".


India's nuclear strategy, which has traditionally focused on Pakistan, now appears to place increased emphasis on China, the two experts claimed. "While India has traditionally been focused on deterring Pakistan, its nuclear modernisation indicates that it is putting increased emphasis on its future strategic relationship with China," they wrote.

"That adjustment will result in significantly new capabilities being deployed over the next decade that may influence how India views nuclear weapons' role against Pakistan," they said.


Noting that India continues to modernise its nuclear arsenal with development of several new nuclear weapon systems, the two experts estimate that New Delhi currently operates seven nuclear-capable systems: two aircraft, four land-based ballistic missiles, and one sea-based ballistic missile.

"At least four more systems are in development. The development program is in a dynamic phase, with long-range land-and sea-based missiles emerging for possible deployment within the next decade," it said.

India is estimated to have produced approximately 600 kilograms of weapon-grade plutonium, sufficient for 150-200 nuclear warheads; however, not all the material has been converted into nuclear warheads, it said.

Based on available information about its nuclear-capable delivery force structure and strategy, we estimate that India has produced 120-130 nuclear warheads, the article said adding that the country will need more warheads to arm the new missiles it is currently developing.

Kristensen and Norris said that the two-stage, solid-fuel, rail-mobile Agni-2, an improvement on the Agni-1, which can deliver a nuclear or conventional warhead more than 2,000 kilometres is probably targeted on western, central, and southern China.

Although the Agni-4 will be capable of striking targets in nearly all of China from northeastern India (including Beijing and Shanghai), India is also developing the longer-range Agni-5, a three-stage, solid-fuel, rail-mobile, near-intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) capable of delivering a warhead more than 5,000 kilometres (3,100-plus miles), it said.

"The extra range will allow the Indian military to establish Agni-5 bases in central and southern India, further away from China," the research article said.

 

[valkyrie_1810]

India Planning Missile To Target All Of China From South Bases: US Report


WASHINGTON:
HIGHLIGHTS

1. India has 120-130 warheads, plans to modernise nuclear arsenal: US report
2. India's nuclear strategy shifting from Pak to China, the report claims
3. Missile with range covering all of China from South Indian bases in works

India continues to modernise its atomic arsenal with an eye on China and the country's nuclear strategy which traditionally focused on Pakistan now appears to place increased emphasis on the Communist giant, two top American nuclear experts have said.

An article published in the July-August issue of the digital journal - After Midnight - has also claimed that India is now developing a missile which can target all of China from its bases in South India.

India is estimated to have produced enough plutonium for 150-200 nuclear warheads but has likely produced only 120-130, wrote Hans M Kristensen and Robert S Norris in the article - "Indian nuclear forces 2017".


India's nuclear strategy, which has traditionally focused on Pakistan, now appears to place increased emphasis on China, the two experts claimed. "While India has traditionally been focused on deterring Pakistan, its nuclear modernisation indicates that it is putting increased emphasis on its future strategic relationship with China," they wrote.

"That adjustment will result in significantly new capabilities being deployed over the next decade that may influence how India views nuclear weapons' role against Pakistan," they said.


Noting that India continues to modernise its nuclear arsenal with development of several new nuclear weapon systems, the two experts estimate that New Delhi currently operates seven nuclear-capable systems: two aircraft, four land-based ballistic missiles, and one sea-based ballistic missile.

"At least four more systems are in development. The development program is in a dynamic phase, with long-range land-and sea-based missiles emerging for possible deployment within the next decade," it said.

India is estimated to have produced approximately 600 kilograms of weapon-grade plutonium, sufficient for 150-200 nuclear warheads; however, not all the material has been converted into nuclear warheads, it said.

Based on available information about its nuclear-capable delivery force structure and strategy, we estimate that India has produced 120-130 nuclear warheads, the article said adding that the country will need more warheads to arm the new missiles it is currently developing.

Kristensen and Norris said that the two-stage, solid-fuel, rail-mobile Agni-2, an improvement on the Agni-1, which can deliver a nuclear or conventional warhead more than 2,000 kilometres is probably targeted on western, central, and southern China.

Although the Agni-4 will be capable of striking targets in nearly all of China from northeastern India (including Beijing and Shanghai), India is also developing the longer-range Agni-5, a three-stage, solid-fuel, rail-mobile, near-intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) capable of delivering a warhead more than 5,000 kilometres (3,100-plus miles), it said.

"The extra range will allow the Indian military to establish Agni-5 bases in central and southern India, further away from China," the research article said.

What is the DEFCON level on this one guys? And literally how would a war start between us and china,lets simulate ITT,China declared war on us and then what? Out cities started getting bombed? And at what point of time do I need to say fuck lets leave everything and save my ass from incoming Chinese missiles?

 

[aliyah]

What is the DEFCON level on this one guys? And literally how would a war start between us and china,lets simulate ITT,China declared war on us and then what? Out cities started getting bombed? And at what point of time do I need to say fuck lets leave everything and save my ass from incoming Chinese missiles?

dont worry india and china will never go to war .both of them know that none can win this war.what will be left behind after war is total devastation with millions n millions of dead bodies and both of them are not jihadis . but a strong possibilities that they many fight in some 3rd country.

 

[sukhish]

looks like ajit doval is visiting china with his tail tucked between his legs.
http://www.indiatvnews.com/news/ind...it-doval-to-visit-china-for-brics-meet-391085
only indian GOI visits china, I do not see the other way happening.
there is no self respect left in these leaders, will always be boot licking to foreign leaders.

 

[sukhish]

china is going make pappu out of GOI now, just wait and watch. the GOI is rudderless and just simply does not know how to handle this thing. let see how feku rescues our country from this.

 

[SanjeevM]

china is going make pappu out of GOI now, just wait and watch. the GOI is rudderless and just simply does not know how to handle this thing. let see how feku rescues our country from this.

I would say trust the leadership of Modi. Calling him feku, does it help you? Do you see any other leader as of today whom do you think is capable of doing a better job than Modi? To me it seems like you are speaking the language of libtards and AAPtards. We should be talking about the solutions and not calling everyone useless. If you have the capability, why don't you fight an election and join politics and become PM of India and do a better job?

Congress and libtards are responsible for last 60 years of shit. How much magic you want Modi to use and clear the shit in 3 years? Better be constructive in criticism. Don't get the disease of libtards and AAPtards and criticize Modi because you can't do anything yourself.

It hurts to see criticism of a leader who is doing good for India after 60 years of others plundering under different scams that drained our resources.

 

[Suryavanshi]

china is going make pappu out of GOI now, just wait and watch. the GOI is rudderless and just simply does not know how to handle this thing. let see how feku rescues our country from this.

Aye yo Sukshi if not modi then who?
Beggars can't be choosers

 

[sukhish]

I would say trust the leadership of Modi. Calling him feku, does it help you? Do you see any other leader as of today whom do you think is capable of doing a better job than Modi? To me it seems like you are speaking the language of libtards and AAPtards. We should be talking about the solutions and not calling everyone useless. If you have the capability, why don't you fight an election and join politics and become PM of India and do a better job?

Congress and libtards are responsible for last 60 years of shit. How much magic you want Modi to use and clear the shit in 3 years? Better be constructive in criticism. Don't get the disease of libtards and AAPtards and criticize Modi because you can't do anything yourself.

It hurts to see criticism of a leader who is doing good for India after 60 years of others plundering under different scams that drained our resources.

I have seen enough of these leaders. no educational skills, do not know how to talk to foreign leaders, I have seen them thick and thin. I'am sorry libtards are responsible for keeping this nation in one piece till now. go get some real degree and not the kind feku has it. I have seen his leadership skills in kashmir .

SAALA cannot a erase a small UN office out of srinagar and talking about 60 years blah blah blah. what exactly has he achieved in 3 years ? kashmir ?

 

[sukhish]

Aye yo Sukshi if not modi then who?
Beggars can't be choosers

before 2014 kashmir had built lots of tourism and hotels, thing were far more normal. until this sadak chaap came and started littering everywhere. do not teach me about leadership, I know these types of people in and out.yesterdays mobster is trying to be todays leader.
let see how his substandard leadership plays out, until then enjoy the show.

he talks about decriminalizing politics, what a joke. while he's busy in supporting looters and mobsters.
trying to project his clean image in foerign trips and at the same time portraying to be nationalistic. he loves NRI's that thing is for sure.

 

[SanjeevM]

I have seen enough of these leaders. no educational skills, do not know how to talk to foreign leaders, I have seen them thick and thin. I'am sorry libtards are responsible for keeping this nation in one piece till now. go get some real degree and not the kind feku has it. I have seen his leadership skills in kashmir .

SAALA cannot a erase a small UN office out of srinagar and talking about 60 years blah blah blah. what exactly has he achieved in 3 years ? kashmir ?

Do you think 3 years back, India had better goodwill and respect world wide than what is today?

 

[sukhish]

much better than today. most of the people I talk to here (GORAS) have said it. now only few NRIs have it. as they also belong to the same cult of mindset. over 90% americans know this man only because of riots and nothing more and they do not want to know anything else about him. only indian media and few of his chamchas project him as some kind of a world leader.

 

[sukhish]

Do you think 3 years back, India had better goodwill and respect world wide than what is today?

the guy cannot address any press conference, cannot talk straight mouth and he is suppose to enhance indias image. except some of his chamchas none give a rat shit about him in this part of the world.