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Why is China allied with Pakistan?

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    Re: Why is China allied with Pakistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by LETHALFORCE View Post
    If US the ultimate superpower could not help Pakistan in any war a second rate power
    Like china doing anything is a joke.
    Nobody is coming to help Pakistn to win a war. Both US and China is just trying to help Pakistan not to lose the war completely. In other wards, keep pakistan's pressure on India's back.

    Quote Originally Posted by LETHALFORCE View Post
    China could not Stop Indian oil exploration in South China seas.Where does a third world country like China get these Delusions from. China in fact has been digging their own grave with alliances
    Forming to cut china back down to size.
    Then why do you mind China's help to Pakistan? How can a third world country aid to another third world country threat a world power like india?


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    Re: Why is China allied with Pakistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by ice berg View Post
    HAHAHAH, more likely begging for peace. You notice they came to China. Not the other way around.
    If conducting a state visit is called as begging for peace why are you holding trillions of dollars in forex reserves in the currency of your biggest your enemy who helps Taiwan?And your biggest enemy is also your biggest trading partner.Never in the history of the world such a combination existed.

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    Re: Why is China allied with Pakistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by ersakthivel View Post
    If conducting a state visit is called as begging for peace why are you holding trillions of dollars in forex reserves in the currency of your biggest your enemy who helps Taiwan?And your biggest enemy is also your biggest trading partner.Never in the history of the world such a combination existed.
    China holds trillions of dollars to beg mercy from Americans.
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    Re: Why is China allied with Pakistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by nimo_cn View Post
    China holds trillions of dollars to beg mercy from Americans.
    What if tommorow when asked to repay reserve bills ,US shows and tell all chinese manufacturing to who will u replace US, the biggest trading partner,??? Guatemala???
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    Re: Why is China allied with Pakistan?

    I think We have the athority to explore in SOUTH CHINA SEA (SCS) because we ve got tenders to do so from Veitnam . . .
    CHINA cant claim whole of SCS and if they are doing so then where do their neighbours stand . Why Chinese have disputes with almost all of the countries whom it shares borders with?
    Do you knw why because they r aiming and claiming so high that cant be beared by any of its neighbour
    As far as talking abt Pakistan they have to do alot to reach us , and we have to do more to contain Chinese Ambitions . .
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    Re: Why is China allied with Pakistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpArK View Post
    What if tommorow when asked to repay reserve bills ,US shows and tell all chinese manufacturing to who will u replace US, the biggest trading partner,??? Guatemala???
    Dealing with a superpower like US, China is always put in a disadvantageous positon. American defaulting the debt is very likely to have a devestating impact on Chinese economy, no arguement on that. But people should keep in mind that US is also going to pay a huge price for doing that, something like the crown of being the most powerful country on the planet. And why would the Americans do that?

    I have always pointed out that China has intention to replace America as the lead of the world, and China is demonstrating that by supporting American economy through purchasing American debts.

    As long as China keeps acting dscreet and posing no overwhelming threat to Americans, they are not going to take adventurous move against China. Instead, they are going to contain China in a slow and gradual way by allying countries like Japan, India.

    As of now, Americans gain more and lose less in the growth of China, so we are safe.
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    Re: Why is China allied with Pakistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by EXPERT View Post
    I think We have the athority to explore in SOUTH CHINA SEA (SCS) because we ve got tenders to do so from Veitnam . . .
    CHINA cant claim whole of SCS and if they are doing so then where do their neighbours stand . Why Chinese have disputes with almost all of the countries whom it shares borders with?
    Do you knw why because they r aiming and claiming so high that cant be beared by any of its neighbour
    As far as talking abt Pakistan they have to do alot to reach us , and we have to do more to contain Chinese Ambitions . .
    India has the neither the ability or authority to explore in South China Sea. Vietnam only introduces India into South China Sea to confront China, but not to drill oil for them, instead they are banking on French to do that.

    Vietnam claims the whole South China, no one seems to be bothered, so yes, China can and is claiming what belongs to us in South China Sea.

    Border disputes in Asia is quite common, India is having land disputs with almost every of its neighbors, too. Vietnam is no exceptional as well, land and water disputes with China, water dispute with Philippine, land dispute with Cambodia, etc. Thailand and Cambodia, Thailand and Malaysia, Malaysia and Singapore, NK and SK, SK and Japan, Japan and Russia, you name it, who doesn't have dispute with whom.
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    Re: Why is China allied with Pakistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by nimo_cn View Post
    China holds trillions of dollars to beg mercy from Americans.
    Just count your losses in true value , because a decade back gold was going for a sixth of it's current price in dollars.
    That's why it seems incredible when people say china and US are rivals. Through out the world history which rival held the other's currency and which rival had their enemy as NO-1 trading partner?
    China's so called moves of countering US with new weapons is in reality a covert attempt to dominate others in ASIA.As risking a confrontation with US will spell trouble for it's own economy.
    Last edited by ersakthivel; 22-12-12 at 10:52 AM.
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    Re: Why is China allied with Pakistan?

    @nimo_cn : Who told that india having border disputes with any country exept bloody Pak and You Chinese . . .
    We see our neighbour as friend and equal to us,neither like China who dominate others.

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    Re: Why is China allied with Pakistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by nimo_cn View Post
    Dealing with a superpower like US, China is always put in a disadvantageous positon. American defaulting the debt is very likely to have a devestating impact on Chinese economy, no arguement on that. But people should keep in mind that US is also going to pay a huge price for doing that, something like the crown of being the most powerful country on the planet. And why would the Americans do that?.
    sir I tell you something about export business of China to US and EU. even if US+EU ban import from China, it would be a loss of around $700bil "manufactured products" business for China, out of total $2.1trillions China's export, while half of it, around $350billions can be consumed by increased demand from Asia, Africa South America etc, along with increase in home consumption. as, if CHina export to EU+EU then they import also and if the same CHina Import from Japan+Korea+ASEAN+SOuht America, CHina will get at least $300billion additional export order in return..... hence a total loss of around $350billions export of Manufactured products, out of $2.1trillions, if both US+EU impose ban on CHina suddenly.....

    from here, the very first question US+EU have, do they still have those industries to supply those products, they import from China? I mean to ask, even to wear cloths, shoes, cheap cars etc. specially fridges, TVs, Micro Wave type stuffs which we generally buy and throw in Australia in case of any problem as it is cheap to buy a new one than maintenance cost etc. do the West still have these industries? and even if they start from now, it would take at least 5-6 years to have little bit industrial infrastructure like this, they have lost in 80s and 90s

    and the second and the most important question, are their civilians prepared to have high inflation for the next 10-12, if these industries back to US+EU?? they already have around 106% debt to total US's GDP to date, with borrowing around $1.2trillions every year to meet expenditure commitments, as of last 2 years. then here, high inflation, say at 7%, will also make then have interests rate close to 7% on their debt. how will they finance it under their current expenditure, which requires around 44% to be spent on Social Security+Medical only????? check it as below....

    U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

    US+EU have traveled so long that its really hard for them to return until they have to, say after an economic fall like how Russia faced in 90s. while now they are going to lose business of High Tech products to China, then how will they maintain their CAD under so high price based competition from China on side of High Tech products also.......
    lets see what exactly we will see in our time
    Last edited by hello_10; 22-12-12 at 12:46 PM.
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    Re: Why is China allied with Pakistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by nimo_cn View Post
    Border disputes in Asia is quite common, India is having land disputs with almost every of its neighbors, too. Vietnam is no exceptional as well, land and water disputes with China, water dispute with Philippine, land dispute with Cambodia, etc. Thailand and Cambodia, Thailand and Malaysia, Malaysia and Singapore, NK and SK, SK and Japan, Japan and Russia, you name it, who doesn't have dispute with whom.
    Border Disputes of India Vs China:

    there is difference between border disputes, India and the China have with its neighbors, I explain it as below:

    1st. China has border disputes with that Taiwan whose governments have been a puppet to US against China under over 66% majority governments. Taiwan, whose every strength was used against China during 80s, 90s and last decade under over 66% voting of the governments they elected but now they look like have surrendered to China

    and again, China has border disputes with India on Arunanchal Pradesh whose every system wants to fight against CHina in case of any war. Arunanchal Pradesh is that part of India who wants to fight against China's claim over it, many voting were also done in this regard, and mainly Mr D.Lama lead those people who consider him like a Lord.....

    a straight and bottomline difference between border disputes, India and China have with its neighbors

    2nd, India has border dispute with that Pakistan on Kashmir issue whose every state wants separation from Pakistan. Indian Kashmir has an "Elected State Democratic Government", while POK is now the most peaceful part of Pakistan. rest, neither Muhajir's want Karachi to go on the control of rest of Pakistanis, neither Balochistanis itself have their mid-set with the mainstream of Pakistan and want independence, and not even the North West state of Pashtun's Pakistan ever wanted Punjabi dominance over them and want to go with their Pashtun brothers of Afghanistan........ and with that, neither Indian Muslims also find Muhajirs of Pakistan in any good condition, which always give a lesson to Kashmiris too to always be ready to fight with infiltration from Pakistan to maintain their independence
    Last edited by hello_10; 22-12-12 at 12:59 PM.

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    Re: Why is China allied with Pakistan?

    An Indian Stand on the Border Dispute with Pakistan on the Kashmir issue is as below, in the light of historical facts and agreements signed at the time of freedom of both the countries.......

    this article below represents Indian claim on POK but I find partition of Kashmir was done in the same as rest of other border states of India-Pakistan. for example, "East Bengal" went to Pakistan and "West Bengal" to India, "East Punjab" to India and "West Punjab" to Pakistan, 'Sindh' to Pakistan and 'Gujarat' to India and hence, POK to Pakistan and Indian Kashmir, the crown of India

    while on my own side, when I was to open my mouth on this issue and I found people of POK more willing to come to join India, once I proposed $60billion offer to Pakistan in return of POK, which will make them free of whole external debt, and it may then be saved by Indian side too on long run by saving on the military expanses on the border of Pakistan over LOC, they spend right now to avoid infiltration. my personal level proposal

    Jammu & Kashmir

    Spineless India, Cunning Pakistan, Toothless UN


    Despite of three all out wars between India and Pakistan only one in 1947 was fought by India to regain its own territory illegally occupied by invader Pakistan. On October 22, 1947 Pakistani army disguised as tribals and branded as Mujjahiddins invaded Jammu & Kashmir then an independent princely state ruled by Maharaja Hari Singh. The ruler of Kashmir, who on October 26, 1947 using the provisions of Indian Independence Act 1947 passed by the British Parliament merged his state with India. By virtue of the signed Instrument of Accession, the former princely state of Jammu and Kashmir like other more than 500 princely states of pre-partition India became integral part of India. Thereafter Indian army initiated military actions to push out disguised Pakistani army out of own territories in Jammu & Kashmir but before regaining entire territories illegally occupied by Pakistan J. M. Nehru the then Indian prime minister unilaterally declared ceasefire on January 1,1948.

    Just one day before unilaterally declaring cease-fire, the Indian Prime Minister J. M. Nehru declared to conduct plebiscite in Jammu & Kashmir. J. M. Nehru's offer of Plebiscite in UN on December 31, 1947 itself was unauthorized and illegal. First of all Nehru had no right or powers to offer plebiscite in Jammu & Kashmir in UN or anywhere else due to signing and acceptance of Instrument of Accession on October 26, 1947 as the Jammu & Kashmir had become integral part of India. If at all, any one had the right or power to declare plebiscite or cede any territory to any other country in any part of India it was Indian Parliament and that was under process of coming into existence. The Constituent Assembly, which was in existence at that time was constituted with only objects to bring the Indian constitution and parliament into existence and had no powers or rights to take any decision to conduct plebiscite or cede any territory of India to any other country.

    Moreover, Nehru's offer of Plebiscite made within 70 days of the merger of Jammu & Kashmir into India was against the intention and spirit of the Instrument of Accession signed by the Maharaja Hari Singh former ruler of princely state Jammu & Kashmir. As per the powers conferred by the Indian Independence Act 1947 passed by the British Parliament the ruler Hari Singh merged his state with India to make it an integral part of India and not to offer his state to conduct plebiscite by India. If at all the ruler Hari Singh of Jammu & Kashmir wished to do so, he could have done it himself why he needed India or Nehru to offer plebiscite in his state?

    However, in any case, Pakistan has no right of any kind even on one-inch territory of Jammu & Kashmir including the illegally occupied territories since 1947 as it is an integral part of India. If Pakistan claims Kashmir just because there are more Muslims in Kashmir then why India should not claim entire Pakistan as there are more Muslims in India than in the entire Pakistan?

    Nehru's unilateral, suicidal, irresponsible, unauthorized, illegal and treacherous offer of plebiscite in own territories shocked Indians and surprised Pakistan as Pakistan never expected something of that kind will be gifted by Indian prime minister. Moreover, even Pakistan had never uttered a word plebiscite in Kashmir before Nehru committed that historic blunder.

    The whole idea of invasion of Jammu & Kashmir was a brainchild of Pakistani army and was conceived in a month of September 1947, immediately after creation of Pakistan on August 14, 1947. Before partition, Mohammad Ali Jinnah never thought of inclusion of not only Jammu & Kashmir but also any particular territory into Pakistan. What Jinnah wanted was an independent nation exclusively for Muslims no matter how small, size was not important for him but creation of one separate and independent nation was. Otherwise, in first place Jinnah known for his adamant nature would not have agreed to the “Mountbatten Plan” itself, as that was supposed to be the basis of Indian Independence Act 1947, later passed by the British Parliament. The results of plebiscite in Baluchistan and voting in Sindh Assembly to decide merger with either India or Pakistan could go in anybody's favor. Moreover, instead of playing that gamble of plebiscite, the clever and adamant Jinnah would have insisted on straightway creation of Pakistan by inclusion of the territories he wanted to be parts of Pakistan in same way, as he forced the Indian National Congress agree to his demand of partition of India.

    Nehru's free run of committing blunder after blunders of Jammu & Kashmir continued for years, as the national territories were his own private property, surprisingly without any resistance from the Congressmen. Nehru did not stop with the blunders of announcing ceasefire and plebiscite but committed another blunder by inclusion of discriminatory Section 370 into Indian Constitution giving special status to the state of Jammu & Kashmir.

    There were more than 500 princely states in pre-partition India and the state of Jammu & Kashmir was one of them. The state of Jammu & Kashmir merged with India just like all other states merged in accordance with the provisions of Indian Independence Act 1947. The special status under the Section 370 of the Indian Constitution was not granted to all other more than 500 former princely states and was offered only the state of Jammu & Kashmir in clear violation of natural and equal justice to all. That means the Section 370 itself was discriminatory. Only thing nobody did challenge the validity of inclusion of that discriminatory Section 370 into Indian Constitution in the court of law.

    The successive Indian Congress led governments in India have committed multiple blunders by messing up the one point simple issue of regaining invaded and illegally occupied own territories kicking Pakistan out at any costs. Moreover, the cunning Pakistanis always stole the Indian army sacrifices and victories of war in post-war treaties with Indians. Even in the propaganda and diplomatic moves, the Pakistanis are hundred of years ahead of India. Despite of being invader and illegal occupier of Indian territories, Pakistan bullies India at will and Indians being the legal owners of the territories illegally occupied by Pakistan ridiculously behave as if they are in illegal occupation of the Jammu & Kashmir.

    The return of regained own territories of the state of Jammu & Kashmir back to the invader and illegal occupier Pakistan after 1971 India-Pakistan war shows how much India loves its own territories and how much is serious in regaining entire territories illegally occupied by Pakistan. Moreover, Indian diplomacy (?) could not understand that the return of own regained territories back to the invader Pakistan would give legitimacy to the Pakistani illegal occupation of Indian territories. Despite of victor, the entire handling of post-war situation, more than diplomatic disaster was greatest blunder in the series of blunders committed since 1947 by Indian governments led by the Congress party. May be India was the only country in the world to do such national suicide.

    After losing the greatest opportunity to resolve the Kashmir issue once for all by forcing defeated Pakistan to totally withdraw from the illegally occupied Indian territories of Jammu & Kashmir after end of 1971 war, today India is left with very few options.

    First India needs to shed defensive, elusive, spiritless and spineless behavior and stop selling of Jammu & Kashmir to Pakistan in the name of autonomy in exchange for halt in terror attacks emanating from Pakistan. The purpose of using terror therapy itself is to make India agree to the terms of Pakistan that means swallowing remaining Indian territories of Jammu & Kashmir in collusion with some anti-Indians on Pakistani payroll.

    Second, enough is enough India should at least have some fire and spirit to regain its own territories, not by shying away from the international scene fearing the 'K' word but boldly presenting the realities of legal and completed accession of Jammu & Kashmir into India in October 1947.

    Further, India must admit the blunders committed by the J. M. Nehru the then prime minster of India by declaring unilateral cease fire before completely regaining own territories illegally occupied by Pakistan and Nehru's irresponsible, unauthorized and illegal act in UN that offered to conduct plebiscite in own territories of Jammu & Kashmir. The blunder committed by Nehru has made Indian successive generations pay by hundreds of thousands of innocent human lives, billions of dollars in expenditures apart from making generations of hundreds of thousands of Indian Kashmiri Pandits refugees in their own motherland in last sixty years by the treacherous act of one man and sycophantic silence of many.

    Pakistanis really have tremendous spirit and fire despite of being the invaders and illegal occupiers of Indian territories of Jammu & Kashmir. In contrast, not a single Indian leader in successive Indian ruling set-ups had even fraction of that spirit and fire the Pakistanis have, otherwise, India would have regained the entire territories illegally occupied by Pakistan long back.

    Still it’s not impossible only thing needed is one or few leaders in Indian ruling set-up who has got real fire and national spirit and keeps themselves on fire until Pakistan is kicked out of illegally occupied Indian territories rising above petty politics of getting power and remain stuck to power at any cost . However, the big question is whether India has such dynamic leader who can rise above petty politics in interest of nation. When Pakistan has engaged itself full time since 1947 on single agenda of swallowing remaining territories of Indian state of Jammu & Kashmir, Indians except licking the wounds of terror emanating from Pakistan and occasional ceremonial announcements of Jammu & Kashmir is integral part of India have done nothing to regain own territories illegally occupied by Pakistan. Today Pakistan due to its complicity in terror is at the lowest standing in International scene with total loss of credibility. Moreover, more than 30% of the Pakistani army is already inside Afghanistan and 40% in own tribal region adjoining Afghanistan in the guise of non-existing ghost Taliban and another 10-15% will move in next few months time and remain in western Pakistan for long time.

    What Indians needs is a courage for bold moves shedding aside the spineless and spiritless diplomacy and lusty domestic power politics and bring forth the reality of completed legal accession of Jammu & Kashmir into India on October 26, 1947 before world, in loud, clear, positive and confident voice and correct the blunders of Jammu & Kashmir once for all by regaining own territories back.

    The threat of Pakistani nuclear weapons is non-existent; the tiny geographical size of Pakistan makes the entire nuclear arsenal useless and suicidal for Pakistan, if used against India. Any simultaneous Pakistani nuclear aggression even on all top ten cities of India will not destroy the Indian ability to retaliate in same way, and in such case, "the tiny Pakistan will be wipe out from the world map". The intelligent ISI that is nuclear command and real center of power of Pakistan will never ever dare to convert whole Pakistan into ashes. The tricks of moving some of the nuclear weapons towards India in the times of tension were only to bring world pressure on India to cool relations with Pakistan fearing nuclear flash between two countries. Therefore, ISI should remain concentrated on its mission of realization of Federation of Islamic Republics by invading other countries using disguised Pakistani regular army as non-existent ghost Taliban.

    The Pakistani nuclear program boosted not to maintain any balance with India but first for successful creation of master of ISI’s dream of Federation of Islamic Republics and thereafter to thwart every US military action against Federation of Islamic Republics to dislodge Pakistani army as Taliban. The Pakistani nuclear program including acquisition of nuclear capable ready-to-use No-Dong missiles from North Korea in exchange for nuclear technology began when ISI decided to go ahead with the idea of Federation of Islamic Republics by Pakistani army under the guise of non-existing ghost Taliban in 1994.

    The astonishing speed Pakistani pile-up of longer and longer-range nuclear capable ready-to-use Korean missiles is to counter US threats forever and not India on Kashmir issue. Moreover, for ISI Kashmir is very a paltry territory in comparison with Federation of Islamic Republics that is suppose to include parts of Central, entire Middle East and West Asia. ISI knows US will never go beyond certain limit against nuclear states and unless long-range nuclear capable missiles with nuclear war heads are stocked in large scale, ISI cannot bring the powerful US on equal terms like former USSR. In the cold war era, US at all costs avoided direct military conflict with former USSR fearing nuclear backlash. Once the rapidly ongoing re-invasion of Afghanistan by Pakistani army in the guise of Taliban is completed, it will take hardly year or two Pakistan to invade one or two poor defenseless countries of Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan or Kyrgyzstan under the guise of Taliban. What ISI plans are is somehow declare its non-existing ghosts Taliban and Al-Qaeda having hold on entire nuclear stock pile of Pakistan as that game plan will force all Islamic countries to surrender to the Taliban’s Federation of Islamic Republics and also thwart every US military action against the ISI’s Grand National Conspiracy.

    The United Nations inaction in forcing Pakistan to withdraw from the illegally occupied Indian territories even after of lapse of sixty years despite of its own resolution passed on August 13, 1948 has only proved how weak the UN is. UN that blamed Pakistan for invasion and ordered Pakistan to withdraw from the illegal occupation Indian territories, in fact did nothing to force Pakistan to vacate Indian territories. The UN inactions have proved UN is toothless organization and could be bullied by any country that is rogue. The UN failure to enforce its own resolution allowed Pakistan to continue its illegal occupation of Indian territories continuously for last sixty years and has emboldened Pakistan to invade Afghanistan under guise of non-existing ghost Taliban, in the same manner as it did in Jammu & Kashmir in October 1947. The drastic UN failure has given an impression to Pakistan that not only it can invade any country under guise of non-existing ghosts but also can retain occupation for decades or may be forever despite of UN resolutions. As far as UN resolutions are concerned, they are nothing but bullshit for Pakistan.

    Any territorial trade off by India in Jammu & Kashmir for peace with Pakistan too is not possible for any party government India. On December 31, 1947, the then Indian prime minster J. M. Nehru who was leading the Constituent Assembly had made an offer of plebiscite in Jammu & Kashmir in UN. That offer was in absence of Indian Constitution and Parliament as both were under process of coming into existence. In 1994, for the first time Indian Parliament has unanimously passed resolution declaring entire Jammu & Kashmir that includes the territories illegally occupied by Pakistan and China as an integral part of India. That particular resolution has overruled and nullified the previous offers of plebiscite and ceasefire in entire Jammu & Kashmir made by the then prime minster of India J. M. Nehru in UN. Now no government of India under president’s rule or led by any party can trade off even one inch of Indian territory including illegally held by Pakistan or China in exchange to buy peace or to halt terror emanating from Pakistan. If Indian government wants to do so, the Indian parliament needs to pass unanimous resolution allowing ceding of Indian territories to Pakistan as the Jammu & Kashmir is an integral part of India and unless Indian parliament passes such unanimous resolution, allowing ceding of nation’s territories to Pakistan any territorial trade off by Indian political parties shall be unconstitutional, therefore illegal.

    Had India or UN kicked invader Pakistan out of illegally occupied Indian territories of Jammu & Kashmir immediately after invasion on October 22 1947 or before mid 1990s Pakistan would not have dared again to use the same modus operandi used to invade Kashmir in 19947 to invade Afghanistan in 1990s and now once again in 2007-08. Even the 1998 simultaneous terror attacks on US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, the 9/11 in US, 7/7 in UK and hundreds of terror attacks in India, Afghanistan and elsewhere that ended hundreds of thousands of valuable innocent human lives and billions of dollars in expenditures would not have taken place at all.

    However, Pakistan needs to be forced to vacate illegal occupation of Indian territories held since 1947. As that will make every present and future rogue Pakistani elements realize that the world shall not allow it to invade and continue illegal occupation of even one inch territory of other countries. Unless that happens, the Pakistani army’s missions of invading other countries in one or other guise shall never halt and there will be more Jammu & Kashmirs beyond Afghanistan. Once the ongoing process of re-invasion of Afghanistan is over in few months in the guise of non-existing ghost Taliban, nobody can stop the deadly ISI from invading Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, and almost all countries of Middle East, West Asia and North Africa under the guise of non-existing ghost Taliban in next few years of time.

    Jammu & Kashmir - Spineless India, Cunning Pakistan, Toothless UN : Peace Kashmir
    Last edited by hello_10; 23-12-12 at 11:21 AM.
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    Re: Why is China allied with Pakistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by EXPERT View Post
    @nimo_cn : Who told that india having border disputes with any country exept bloody Pak and You Chinese . . .
    We see our neighbour as friend and equal to us,neither like China who dominate others.
    List of disputed territories of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    1.1 People's Republic of China
    1.1.1 Aksai Chin
    1.1.2 Disputed areas located between Aksai Chin and Nepal
    1.1.3 Trans-Karakoram Tract
    1.1.4 Arunachal Pradesh
    1.1.5 Depsang Plains
    1.2 Pakistan
    1.2.1 Siachen Glacier
    1.2.2 Saltoro Mountains
    1.2.3 Sir Creek
    1.3 Bangladesh
    1.3.1 Boraibari
    1.3.2 Indo-Bangladesh enclaves
    1.3.3 New Moore / South Talpatti
    1.4 Nepal
    1.4.1 Kalapani
    1.4.2 Susta
    1.5 Myanmar
    1.5.1 Narcondam Island
    1.6 Sri Lanka
    1.6.1 Kachchatheevu

    It seems you are wrong, good sir.
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    Re: Why is China allied with Pakistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by t_co View Post
    Appreciate the non-troll response.
    No prob.


    Quote Originally Posted by t_co View Post
    From a regional perspective, India is not a threat to China because the Tibetan plateau serves as a useful spot from which China can hit India while reducing the ability of India to strike back (except with nuclear weapons.) The correlation of forces provided by geography is simply so favorable to China that unless India is 2 or 3 times stronger than China overall India will not be a strategic threat (again, absent a nuclear exchange).
    In the medium-term India is a strategic regional threat to China from the perspective of vital IOR shipping lanes which still account for well over 70% of China's crude. From a conventional military standpoint you are right in saying that China's dominance over the Tibetan plateau affords it 'strategic depth' which India cannot exploit. But any military standoff between India and China will involve a naval confrontation, since that is India's only real stranglehold over China: something China realizes as it is looks to diversify its crude supplies. China also realizes however, that the IOR shipping lanes will continue to be important from the perspective of trade in both crude and commodities given the rising importance of Africa as both a market and resource supplier; which is why it is looking to establish a naval footprint in the IOR. In the medium-long term, India becomes a threat to China from two viewpoints: 1) from the perspective of both a massive resource-consumer and resource-competitor (which needless to say are scarce, costly and often essential): everywhere from Africa to Afghanistan to the Middle East and the South-China Sea; and 2) as a polar influence in competitive engagement: both from a larger geo-political perspective, as it looks to deepen its own political and military ties and engagement with many of the states China is currently courting, in order to establish security of access for both resources and markets and to limit the forex impingement from scarcity; and from a more regional militaristic perspective as it seeks its own 'strategic depth' from pliant allies. Many of these, often exclusive, politico-military maneuvers: such as joint military training, arms and advanced technology transfers, comprehensive military exercises, establishment of military interoperability, construction of dual use ports etc. will be seen as aggressive posturing by either country, regardless of the rhetoric.

    Concomitantly, India is wary of China because it currently blocks Indian access to Central Asia via its occupation of Aksai Chin and the Trans-Karakoram tract, which in concert with Pakistani occupied Kashmir prevents an Indian land route to Central Asia: for both a commodity market and energy security. More regionally, China is perceived as a possible long-term adversary because of its continued claims over the state of Arunachal Pradesh, which India is loathe to relinquish. The unresolved borders: Aksai Chin, the Transkarakoram tract and Arunachal Pradesh, gaining in strategic significance every time and the only China has with a nuclear neighbor, creates a recipe for possible conflagration. Moving away from strictly bilateral issues, the India-China engagement is compounded by Chinese construction activity in the P-o-K, which violates the Pakistani position of the territory being disputed and is a direct affront to India's position of the territory being an integral part. From a military standpoint, it enervates India's position as it leads to the possibility of a China-Pakistan logistical axis in the event of a confrontation with Pakistan. India also views China as an elemental long-term threat because of China's dominance of certain rivers as an upper-riparian state, most notably of the Brahmaputra which feeds India's north-eastern states: China has been known to ignore international convention and diplomatic best practices (read threats to Taiwan) even as a previously weaker state, when it deems its "national interest", defined in far more immiscible terms, is at stake. As its military power grows, this impulse is only likely to exacerbate. What makes the combination particularly volatile is that both are irredentist states: India over Kashmir and China over territories it claims its own, including Aksai Chin, the South China Sea, Taiwan and Arunachal Pradesh.

    Quote Originally Posted by t_co View Post
    Furthermore, what interest does China have in holding India down on the global stage? As large developing nations, China and India both have many more interests in common than in conflict.
    Whatever 'conventional wisdom' you may hear about the simultaneous rise of nation states being 'non-zero sum', even you must realize and understand that resources are scarce; and in the case of India and China, this predicament is particularly acute. The gains from successful outcomes in competitive engagement are manifold: from secure access to markets and resources to reduced prices and transactional costs to a more assorted range of non-military and military instruments of power to asymmetric ontogeny of technical, technological and industrial bases that offer a distinct, if not decisive, advantage in military conflict, no matter how remote.

    Quote Originally Posted by t_co View Post
    What sort of "resolution of immediate problems" does Chinese support for Pakistan prevent? Pakistan does not have nearly the arsenal that India does. To claim that this arsenal somehow holds India in check vis-a-vis China needs more links to work.
    Chinese nuclear support for Pakistan has enabled Pakistan to conduct military misadventures such as the Kargil War which have scuttled peace measures proceeding apace at the time these misadventures were conducted. China's nuclear and military support for Pakistan has also emboldened Pakistan to launch, through its covert 'non-state agents- that elements, within the Pakistani military, have admitted to having full state-backing- relentless acts of terror against the Indian Government and its people: including the attack on the Indian Parliament and the 2008 terror carnage in Mumbai, knowing full well that India's options were limited under enhanced nuclear overhang and that its reprisals could be calibrated via threats of nuclear war. At the time these attacks took place, India and Pakistan were, by the candid admissions of no less than Pakistan's military dictator, a hair's breadth away from resolving the Kashmir issue, and a coterie of other less contentious issues that prevented bilateral ties from being exploited to their full potential. China's continued direct support to the Pakistani military, conventionally and to its intelligence agencies, covertly facilitates the preeminence of these institutions in Pakistani politics and their entrenchment in foreign policy, permits an abiding patronage of non-state actors, prevents democratic discourse and frustrates a diplomatic solution to outstanding issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by t_co View Post
    This misses one important point: Pakistan is the only window China has at the moment, but that does not mean China does not want to seek other friends in the Arab /Islamic world. Relations with Arab nations are not mutually exclusive--if the US can ally both Israel, Saudi Arabia, and (to a lesser degree) Egypt, why does a Chinese relationship with Pakistan preclude relations with other Middle East/Islamic states? And these relationships are not mutually exclusive, then why does it matter that Pakistan is not the ideal partner for China to engage with?
    Pakistan is certainly not China's only 'window' into the Islamic world; nor is it the best among its available. The reasons mentioned afore are certainly compelling enough to reconsider the very flawed proposition. A country like Syria, for example, prior to the Arab Spring, was both geo-politically and geo-economically better positioned for being China's 'gateway' to the Arab world; as well as being more coherent and less susceptible to meandering in its foreign policy. Qatar, the Sudan, the UAE, Algeria and Mali also offer better alternatives: culturally, demographically, geo-economically, geo-politically and regional-organizationally. The argument in terms of making Pakistan the 'gateway' to the Islamic world, is a flawed one: it is neither culturally compatible nor geo-politically significant, and is increasingly dysfunctional.

    Quote Originally Posted by t_co View Post
    China needs Pakistan as a friendly, stable neighbor. Chinese aid is tailored to that goal. China has no need for a bulwark against a rising India, as a rising India is not a real threat to China. Finally, Chinese assets in South Asia are not dependent on a weak or "bound" India.
    Chinese aid is tailored to more than just making Pakistan a 'friendly, stable' neighbor. China's funding of the Gwadar port is a firm example: Pakistan does not need the Gwadar port to be stable, but China does require it a strategic vantage point over and transit point from the Persian Gulf. Pakistan did however require tons of aid to recover after the 2010 floods, for which China provided a paltry $ 9 million (India an enemy state provided well over $25 million). Nor does Pakistan require long-range missiles to achieve nuclear deterrence, which China has ensured it has. Nor for that matter does Pakistan require non-state military actors prosecuting a jihadi war to remain stable, which China has assured it has.

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    Re: Why is China allied with Pakistan?

    Quote Originally Posted by EXPERT View Post
    I think We have the athority to explore in SOUTH CHINA SEA (SCS) because we ve got tenders to do so from Veitnam . . .
    Yes, you can do that. And we can send the fishing boat, marine police boat to disturb your "exploration" so your cost will reach sky high.

    Quote Originally Posted by EXPERT View Post
    CHINA cant claim whole of SCS and if they are doing so then where do their neighbours stand.
    Just as your tender - Vietnam, claiming the whole SCS too.


    Quote Originally Posted by EXPERT View Post
    As far as talking abt Pakistan they have to do alot to reach us , and we have to do more to contain Chinese Ambitions . .
    Welcom to the great game!

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